I want to like the name Atari for my fond memories of the early 80's with my 2600.  As I understand, this company is not that original builder of fun.  Its been passed around and restarted a few times with different butt heads dragging its name in the dirt.  Turbine might not have launched DDO in great shape 3 years ago but they seem to be working very hard to turn it around from that humble start.  Atari needs to buck up and work with Turbine for both of thier benefits or help Turbine find another distributor.  Either lead or get the hell out of the way.

It's not hard at all to side with Turbine on this one. I am pretty sure Atari is guilty as charged.

Well, glad to see we will have a real DDO game. Turbine screwed the pooch on this one.

I had a blast playing DDO back in the day. I'm sure it has only gotten better since then.

Those who love to whine about the game must have other issues, because the game is the closest adaptation of Dungeons and Dragons to date. No other online game comes even close to giving a first person experience like that.

DDO is what Neverwinter Nights should have been in an ideal world. Fun, action, adventure all from the first person perspective.

I don't quite see what people are bitching so much about. The lack of an extensive crafting system? Having to set up campfires?

Crafting could  be implemented, but I never did much crafting back when I was table topping. I played D&D 1st Ed, and 2nd Ed rules, and quite honestly still like them best. Of course we were not rule mongers and happily implemented anything we felt would enhance the game. But crafting wasn't one of them.

Crafting seems to be something of a timesink in my opinion. Giving people something to do with their subscription time or spend their money on in a CS to get a PVP edge.

As for weak PVP... so what? D&D was never a game about fighting each other, it was about teamwork and beating the odds as put out by the Dungeon Master. I couldn't care less if PVP wasn't an option at all. There are plenty of games that focus on that, if that's your style.

The bottom line is DDO in its current incarnation is the closest thing to Dungeons and Dragons there has ever been created, period. Turbine can still tweak the game and change things around to make it even better - and I think the lawsuit shows their commitment to doing this.

I really hope Turbine wins. Atari is a PoS company, and anyone with even the slightest amount of knowledge about them knows this.

I think turbine should let atari do it,then when the mmo fails like all atari products, sue them for their remaining revenue and shut them down permanently, I hate to be like that, hell atari was the birth of the consoles and the only platform that led way to nintendo and modern game devs, But they're not even the original devs. And with tactics as crappy as theirs they deserve a lesson in Humility, I say we boycott atari ourselves(not that anyone buys their crap anyhow but still..) and let them in on a taste of their own medicine. As for the post about FSS, yeah I agree. HG:L had much potential, greedy micro fund companies are destroying what little dignity we gamers had with propaganda and rubbish, I'm sick of hearing about children robbing their own parents bank accounts for shoddily named game economy. Gimmicks are universal, but to incorporate this kind off arrogance into a belligerent attempt to void franchise license such as ddo(FR and BI were top dog with ddr(sorry just DD for those who aren't familiar with the table top versions(ddr=d&d realms/forgotten realms based on ddr concepts and the lisenced novels, really nerdy crap more or less and I remembered ddr is most commonly used as shorthand for dance dance revolution, decided to explain before i got flamed) but turbine is a close second) is not much apart from defiling Monkey Island with some trashy third party title, it's a staple in any real gamers diet even if DDRO  was more or less epic failure this is wrong.

Its funny that people want Atari/Cryptic to make a new D&D MMO when:

Turbine made a heavily instanced MMO with great combat and great dungeons which had some troulbes at launch (limited combat, no PvP, no Crafting, hard learning curve).

Atari/Cryptic made a heavily instanced MMO with crappy combat and crappy dungeons using maybe the worst engine in any MMO Ive tried (Champions online). They even make people pay a monthly fee for thier game + have microtransactions.

For all the haters: maybe you should read the Filing before you comment on the matter, and maybe play DDO before you discuss what its like. Its easier to discuss when you have any information or facts to argue with... 

Atari=NWN. i love that game, so turbine can go fuck them self.

I love NWN too, but it isn't as immersive as DDO, simply because it doesn't have 1st person perspective and lack all the common things associated with dungeon exploration.

Btw, Atari didn't make NWN. Bioware did. Atari is just the lousy publisher that has been annoying the hell out of most other companies that try to work with them. 

Oh and like someone already said, Atari isn't the great old developer Atari some of us knew. It's simply a front now for a company of money men that bought the brand. People who apparently have very little clue about how to develop engaging MMOs.

Originally posted by Arskaaa

Atari=NWN. i love that game, so turbine can go fuck them self.

Wow! What a constructive post! And what a language!

First! Bioware is the developer behind NWN! NOT Atari!

Atari is just a publisher! Nothing more. And a bad one that is. Always have!

They have been down under more then any other company. That says something.

And if you actually bothered reading what this lawsuit is about and why Turbine does it. Then you wouldn't be so hasty with such foul mouthy words.

It's thanks to Turbine that Atari still lives and didn't went bankrupt 2 - 3 years ago!

And as thanks for that Atari has been screwing around, didn't live up to their end of the deal with the DDO contract and pretty much screwed over Turbine for millions of dollars.

So I really hope Turbine wins and stomps this awful company deep into the ground where it belongs.

And for Cryptic's sake. I hope they can get loose from Atari in time and don't go down under with them.

Cheers

Originally posted by Sarr

Originally posted by Dubhlaith

 

 

I just love this; thank you. I am glad someone else agrees that the Turbine engine is complete bollocks. Atari probably DID plan this from a while back, but they should have. They have every reason to want to take the rights from Turbine. Turbine created a complete shit version of their IP.

Somnulus: I am not going to quote your post too, but I just love your comparisons between the two games, and I think they prove your original point quite well. There are of course many difference between EQ and D&D, but the two are much closer than D&D and DDO. Some of these Turbine fanboys are driving me up a wall. I hope this evidence might drop them a peg. I will not hold my breath.

 

You love when someone agrees with your opinion? Is it any stronger now? Nope. I actually love Turbine's engine and the fact that it's the most advanced out there. Can you tumble, dogde, block monsters (due to collision system) with your tanks in any other MMO?

I also love their graphics. They have that distinct feel you either love or hate. You may hate it, but that's a matter of taste. And nothing even a small bit bigger. For example, I hate WoW graphics and engine - and I see tons of similar engines. Does it make it "bad"? Just becasue me and probably most people in this thread don't like it? No. That's a matter of personal tastes.

EDIT:

To the post above. WHAT?  You really haven't played in beta, am I right? Half of what you wrote just isn't true. No connection with surface? Man, DDO has it done the best you can find anywhere.

So I think you just see what you want in this vid of not-so-great quality . Hmm, all your points aren't accurate. But there's no point in arguing over a video too! That's ridiculous! Just download the game for free and see. I'm 100% confident here, so just see for youself - no bullshit, you're wrong.

Bit of a late response to this, but I could leave it alone lol

So, let's talk about what Turbine have said the engine they have made can and cannot do. They were asked about phasing technology as seen in WoW during the DDO Beta and Turbine said that the Engine just couldn't do it. They were asked about player created content and Turbine said the Engine just couldn't do it. Asked for collision detection in Turbines MMO, you obviously have NO knowledge of any other MMO on the market if you think that this is something unique to the Turbine Engine. In fact, there are countless MMOs out there that have similar capabilities. More interesting is that fact that in a lot of MMOs collision detection and interaction is there but simply not enabled ;-) It's a very simple mechanic to implement and not a reason to praise the engine :-) From a technical perspective, the Turbine engine is not brilliant. It is complete bollocks.

There's a reason that Turbine (a) don't licence out there Engine, (b) don't release their sub numbers and (c) are suing Atari and it has nothing to do with them being a brilliant MMO developer... because they aren't.

It's thanks to Turbine that Atari still lives and didn't went bankrupt 2 - 3 years ago!

No. Just no.

Originally posted by Infalible

Bit of a late response to this, but I could leave it alone lol

So, let's talk about what Turbine have said the engine they have made can and cannot do. They were asked about phasing technology as seen in WoW during the DDO Beta and Turbine said that the Engine just couldn't do it. They were asked about player created content and Turbine said the Engine just couldn't do it. Asked for collision detection in Turbines MMO, you obviously have NO knowledge of any other MMO on the market if you think that this is something unique to the Turbine Engine. In fact, there are countless MMOs out there that have similar capabilities. More interesting is that fact that in a lot of MMOs collision detection and interaction is there but simply not enabled ;-) It's a very simple mechanic to implement and not a reason to praise the engine :-) From a technical perspective, the Turbine engine is not brilliant. It is complete bollocks.

There's a reason that Turbine (a) don't licence out there Engine, (b) don't release their sub numbers and (c) are suing Atari and it has nothing to do with them being a brilliant MMO developer... because they aren't.

The single most reason why in most MMO's Collision Detection is turned off is because of server side performance reasons.

Lot of people think that Collision Detection is one of big reasons why WAR's servers come to a hold when too many people enter the RvR lake.

Problem with WAR is, that the whole RvR and Keep sieging is revolved around Collision Detection and so can't be shut off.

Turbine isn't a bad developer. Seeing how they have done with LOTRO and what they achieved with the presentation of Mines of Moria. That is sheer briliancy. As no other developer have accomplished such a Huge Dungeon as Moria in LOTRO.

So you have to give them credit for that.

No one says Turbine's Engine is unique or brilliant. But seeing how flawlessly the seamless world works in LOTRO. It's a pretty good engine.

But that isn't what this topic is about. It's about backstabbery and non-payment of Atari towards Turbine and Turbine sueing them over it.

Originally posted by Infalible

It's thanks to Turbine that Atari still lives and didn't went bankrupt 2 - 3 years ago!

No. Just no.

Well we get it, you don't like Turbine for some reason.  Your comments about their engine exhibit a lot of misstatements.  Why posters enjoy making comments that show a complete lack of knowledge is beyond me.

While DDO has it's problems, it is one of the better done MMO's and shows Turbines skill over most of the other developers.  Yes the game has issues all mentioned previously in the thread.

Most of us who have an inkling of what goes on in this industry know Atari for what they are, a rats nest.  When they bought Cryptic that pretty much ended Cryptic's chance of being anything in this industry.  Champions will be in trouble before the year is out.

So excuse me for laughing at any of you attempting to defend Atari.

Bought it. Played it. Gave it to a friend.

If I could have found a group it might have been fun but there weren't enough players on when I was on to join a party.

An MMO needs to be both soloable and playable in teams DDO wasn't. ( At least not when I tried it. I have read on how things have changed, but heard the same from AOC so played it again and the changes were not significant enough to make me want to play that either.)

Champions does have "Dungeons" as you call them or closed instances I played a few in closed/ open beta and really enjoyed them.

Not sure where the knock against the game engine comes in exactly. They did a whole Best Bussiness practises sort of thing and took the best of WoW/CoX/ and WAR for gameplay and incorporated them into a game that is not limited by fantasy online as a genre. They can go where ever they like when new content is added.

So over all I disagree with the idea that CO is a terrible game.and disagree that DDO is a great game.

Originally posted by Babylon9000

Bought it. Played it. Gave it to a friend.

If I could have found a group it might have been fun but there weren't enough players on when I was on to join a party.

An MMO needs to be both soloable and playable in teams DDO wasn't. ( At least not when I tried it. I have read on how things have changed, but heard the same from AOC so played it again and the changes were not significant enough to make me want to play that either.)

Champions does have "Dungeons" as you call them or closed instances I played a few in closed/ open beta and really enjoyed them.

Not sure where the knock against the game engine comes in exactly. They did a whole Best Bussiness practises sort of thing and took the best of WoW/CoX/ and WAR for gameplay and incorporated them into a game that is not limited by fantasy online as a genre. They can go where ever they like when new content is added.

So over all I disagree with the idea that CO is a terrible game.and disagree that DDO is a great game.

You people are posting in the wrong topic. This topic isn't about CO versus DDO. Tjeez. Learn2Read!!!

Originally posted by Babylon9000

Bought it. Played it. Gave it to a friend.

If I could have found a group it might have been fun but there weren't enough players on when I was on to join a party.

An MMO needs to be both soloable and playable in teams DDO wasn't. ( At least not when I tried it. I have read on how things have changed, but heard the same from AOC so played it again and the changes were not significant enough to make me want to play that either.)

Champions does have "Dungeons" as you call them or closed instances I played a few in closed/ open beta and really enjoyed them.

Not sure where the knock against the game engine comes in exactly. They did a whole Best Bussiness practises sort of thing and took the best of WoW/CoX/ and WAR for gameplay and incorporated them into a game that is not limited by fantasy online as a genre. They can go where ever they like when new content is added.

So over all I disagree with the idea that CO is a terrible game.and disagree that DDO is a great game.

But you CAN'T disagree that DDO: Eberron Unlimited is a great game, because you DON'T KNOW IT . And never played it. Simple as that. If you played in DDO: Eberron Unlimited beta, you could have an opinion.

But you say you've had an account in DDO: Stormreach (old version) back in the day. If that is true, then you can log in to DDO: Eberron Unlimited, free to play model, on the 1st of September - 8 days before the rest of the world.

I'll repeat:

Any of you that want to get a chance to have an opinion about DDO: Eberron Unlimited, and want to know why is it so unique, can download the client for free even now:

High Res Client (DX10, Very High texture setting)

Low Res Client (for older machines)

Official launch is on the 9th of September. BUT, if you ever had an account in the old DDO: Stormreach, or played in recent beta of DDO: Eberron Unlimited, you are able to jump in before all others and play it for free on the 1st of September!

As I said, game is free to download and won't even ask you for your credit card - unlike Guild Wars, where you need to buy the client. So you have nothing to lose, just the time to download it and you're playing.

New server will be open - completely fresh, ready for new players: Cannith. Veterans won't be able to transfer their characters there, so all people will start on 1st level and are going to create server's economy from the scratch.

So, let's stop talking about DDO: Stormreach, especially how it was 2-3 years ago. There even wasn't any global chat system, no trade/advice channels (all usable from within quests), targeting was clumsy (you needed to hit tab key), there wasn't DX10 graphics, no real Tutorial, no hirelings (for me - they work much better in DDO than in GW, as you can use them tactically), there was 10x less content than now, there was no auction house, UI was much worse, there were numerous bugs... In other words, new DDO isn't the one from 2-3 years back. Heck, it's much better game than it is now on live servers, which will get an upgrade to new version next week. Better polished, easier to learn, soloable with difficulty scaling to classes, levels and amount of party members in real time (when someone leaves, difficulty slightly scales down - when someone joins, it's going slightly up).

And that's surely not even half of what has changed, but I'll give up here - go and see.

Oh, and here's a screenshot where I ask new players in beta what they think about DDO (honestly):

Click and read the chat: www.mmorpg.com/photo/0db9fd1a-f103-4f8f-b72c-604d34b2eac4

Amazing! *drool*

I wish I didn't have to wait until Sept 9 to enter. It just looks to be so very cool.

I hope to see some of you in game once I'm finally allowed in :)

Hopefully Turbine will keep this awesome game going for a long long time. Btw, all the progress they've managed over the years really should crush the piping voices of dissent since they'll probably keep innovating as they have so far.

Sept 9. Hurry up!!! :D

I can't stand Turbine so they got what deserved in my eyes...I could care less what Atari did or didnt do, as long as I don't spend my money on Turbine's games I'm a happy dude.    :-)

Sarr: I tend to have a lot of dislike for Turbine's games, as perhaps you have noticed by what I have said. I do not like them, and I did not like DDO before. I am not sure that what has changed would be enough to make it something I would be happy to hold the D&D name, but it does seem that indeed a great deal has changed. I will withhold judgement until then. I did have an account, so I will be Cannith on Sept. 1. I really honestly do hope that it is good. D&D is the greatest game IP ever created. If it is not different from before, however, I will rail against you and this game even stronger knowing that you told me it was different and better.

Edit:

Are you saying Obama is a beholder? I have to say that I do not get the joke. Is he ugly, bad, or are you relating the change in DDO to the change he is making in America? I hope it is the latter, because that would please me if it is true. I think Obama is the best president you yanks have picked out in quite a long time.

They are companies.... there's is no Good or Bad guys, they are both bad guys who'd screw anyone over to get what they want. Since the days of Yore...

unfortunately they'll be casualties, i mean look at Intel they stole some technology from a little company called Rodine... Rodine took them to court and won, but by that point Rodine had went bankrupt. Intel swallowed them up... and took everything anyway.

just the way the world works. no companies an angel, each are up to their waist in crap.

You would have to be pretty naive (although plenty of people in the DDO section of the forums) not to realise there was something very uncomfortable going on between Turbine and Atari behind the delays. At least it is now out in the open.

Originally posted by BaneShade

Can anyone name any other MMOs with similar freedom when it comes to exploring, climbing, jumping, swimming? And not just as a gimmick either, but as a necessary part of the game that rewards you?

 

Umm, I played DDO from start until some time after the Reaver's Refuge update.  And consistently Turbine would remove ledges and rocks that rewarded players and focused on a straight path from the start of a dungeon until the finish.  Turbine had plenty of potential to make this game great, but they could not deliver. All of what you said was in fact just a gimmick. I couldn't stand it anymore, and I will never play a game that requires me to pay for content.

You want a game that rewards you for jumping, climbing, swimming and not just a gimmick? Try Darkfall, they have dungeons too.

I really hope Atari wins and takes the license away from Turbine to let Cryptic develop a stellar D&D title.

Originally posted by Infalible

Originally posted by Sarr

Originally posted by Dubhlaith

 

 

I just love this; thank you. I am glad someone else agrees that the Turbine engine is complete bollocks. Atari probably DID plan this from a while back, but they should have. They have every reason to want to take the rights from Turbine. Turbine created a complete shit version of their IP.

Somnulus: I am not going to quote your post too, but I just love your comparisons between the two games, and I think they prove your original point quite well. There are of course many difference between EQ and D&D, but the two are much closer than D&D and DDO. Some of these Turbine fanboys are driving me up a wall. I hope this evidence might drop them a peg. I will not hold my breath.

 

You love when someone agrees with your opinion? Is it any stronger now? Nope. I actually love Turbine's engine and the fact that it's the most advanced out there. Can you tumble, dogde, block monsters (due to collision system) with your tanks in any other MMO?

I also love their graphics. They have that distinct feel you either love or hate. You may hate it, but that's a matter of taste. And nothing even a small bit bigger. For example, I hate WoW graphics and engine - and I see tons of similar engines. Does it make it "bad"? Just becasue me and probably most people in this thread don't like it? No. That's a matter of personal tastes.

EDIT:

To the post above. WHAT?  You really haven't played in beta, am I right? Half of what you wrote just isn't true. No connection with surface? Man, DDO has it done the best you can find anywhere.

So I think you just see what you want in this vid of not-so-great quality . Hmm, all your points aren't accurate. But there's no point in arguing over a video too! That's ridiculous! Just download the game for free and see. I'm 100% confident here, so just see for youself - no bullshit, you're wrong.

Bit of a late response to this, but I could leave it alone lol

So, let's talk about what Turbine have said the engine they have made can and cannot do. They were asked about phasing technology as seen in WoW during the DDO Beta and Turbine said that the Engine just couldn't do it. They were asked about player created content and Turbine said the Engine just couldn't do it. Asked for collision detection in Turbines MMO, you obviously have NO knowledge of any other MMO on the market if you think that this is something unique to the Turbine Engine. In fact, there are countless MMOs out there that have similar capabilities. More interesting is that fact that in a lot of MMOs collision detection and interaction is there but simply not enabled ;-) It's a very simple mechanic to implement and not a reason to praise the engine :-) From a technical perspective, the Turbine engine is not brilliant. It is complete bollocks.

There's a reason that Turbine (a) don't licence out there Engine, (b) don't release their sub numbers and (c) are suing Atari and it has nothing to do with them being a brilliant MMO developer... because they aren't.

All of turbines products use the same engine (The one from AC2), and they all support the features you seem to have no idea about, but you talk anyway.

Please link where all this was "Said".

Originally posted by Sarr

Originally posted by Babylon9000

Bought it. Played it. Gave it to a friend.

If I could have found a group it might have been fun but there weren't enough players on when I was on to join a party.

An MMO needs to be both soloable and playable in teams DDO wasn't. ( At least not when I tried it. I have read on how things have changed, but heard the same from AOC so played it again and the changes were not significant enough to make me want to play that either.)

Champions does have "Dungeons" as you call them or closed instances I played a few in closed/ open beta and really enjoyed them.

Not sure where the knock against the game engine comes in exactly. They did a whole Best Bussiness practises sort of thing and took the best of WoW/CoX/ and WAR for gameplay and incorporated them into a game that is not limited by fantasy online as a genre. They can go where ever they like when new content is added.

So over all I disagree with the idea that CO is a terrible game.and disagree that DDO is a great game.

 

But you CAN'T disagree that DDO: Eberron Unlimited is a great game, because you DON'T KNOW IT . And never played it. Simple as that. If you played in DDO: Eberron Unlimited beta, you could have an opinion.

But you say you've had an account in DDO: Stormreach (old version) back in the day. If that is true, then you can log in to DDO: Eberron Unlimited, free to play model, on the 1st of September - 8 days before the rest of the world.

 

I'll repeat:

Any of you that want to get a chance to have an opinion about DDO: Eberron Unlimited, and want to know why is it so unique, can download the client for free even now:

High Res Client (DX10, Very High texture setting)

Low Res Client (for older machines)

Official launch is on the 9th of September. BUT, if you ever had an account in the old DDO: Stormreach, or played in recent beta of DDO: Eberron Unlimited, you are able to jump in before all others and play it for free on the 1st of September!

As I said, game is free to download and won't even ask you for your credit card - unlike Guild Wars, where you need to buy the client. So you have nothing to lose, just the time to download it and you're playing.

New server will be open - completely fresh, ready for new players: Cannith. Veterans won't be able to transfer their characters there, so all people will start on 1st level and are going to create server's economy from the scratch.

 

So, let's stop talking about DDO: Stormreach, especially how it was 2-3 years ago. There even wasn't any global chat system, no trade/advice channels (all usable from within quests), targeting was clumsy (you needed to hit tab key), there wasn't DX10 graphics, no real Tutorial, no hirelings (for me - they work much better in DDO than in GW, as you can use them tactically), there was 10x less content than now, there was no auction house, UI was much worse, there were numerous bugs... In other words, new DDO isn't the one from 2-3 years back. Heck, it's much better game than it is now on live servers, which will get an upgrade to new version next week. Better polished, easier to learn, soloable with difficulty scaling to classes, levels and amount of party members in real time (when someone leaves, difficulty slightly scales down - when someone joins, it's going slightly up).

And that's surely not even half of what has changed, but I'll give up here - go and see.

Oh, and here's a screenshot where I ask new players in beta what they think about DDO (honestly):

Click and read the chat: www.mmorpg.com/photo/0db9fd1a-f103-4f8f-b72c-604d34b2eac4

I had no idea they were updating the game. it does look pretty cool. I might give it a whirl but Storm reach left a really bitter taste in my mouth. I was a PnP AD&D geek from way back in the 80's and was sort of hoping to be able to relive that a little so i think I was a little more upset as a result.

Im going to give it a look tonight when I get home from work you've convinced me to at least look at it.

Originally posted by Guillermo197

Originally posted by Babylon9000

Bought it. Played it. Gave it to a friend.

If I could have found a group it might have been fun but there weren't enough players on when I was on to join a party.

An MMO needs to be both soloable and playable in teams DDO wasn't. ( At least not when I tried it. I have read on how things have changed, but heard the same from AOC so played it again and the changes were not significant enough to make me want to play that either.)

Champions does have "Dungeons" as you call them or closed instances I played a few in closed/ open beta and really enjoyed them.

Not sure where the knock against the game engine comes in exactly. They did a whole Best Bussiness practises sort of thing and took the best of WoW/CoX/ and WAR for gameplay and incorporated them into a game that is not limited by fantasy online as a genre. They can go where ever they like when new content is added.

So over all I disagree with the idea that CO is a terrible game.and disagree that DDO is a great game.

 

You people are posting in the wrong topic. This topic isn't about CO versus DDO. Tjeez. Learn2Read!!!

Atari is the publisher for Cryptic's Champion's Online. The article is about Atari being sued by Turbine. Someone made a comment on Champions that iw anted to address.
 

Are you the forum moderator here? Nope. Didn't think so. You're just a rude guy who argues with all my posts. Now go upstairs and ask your mom for a peanut butter sandwich or something I'm tired of you.