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Originally posted by Korgana
You forgot Bioware. Eh Bioware have not released any MMOs yet. And btw, Atari is the reason why Bioware isnt doing D&D games anymore... If WoW = The Beatles |
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Originally posted by Khalathwyr
You forgot Bioware. To be fair, Bioware hasn't launched a successful MMO yet.
True, but I was going off of past performance in thier other games :). It will be interesting to see how this Turbine/Atari stuff works out. I'd hope that Turbine does not get screwed again like Microsoft did them with AC2. |
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You play Perfect World. You have lost the right to an opinion any of us will ever take seriously. Now crawl back to your crapfest asian grinder and let us big boys talk DDO. That is all. |
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Sarr
 Apprentice Member
Joined: 8/19/08
I'm positive about what I play. If it ends & I get negative, I move on. This is how we not troll. |
Originally posted by Korgana True, but I was going off of past performance in thier other games :). It will be interesting to see how this Turbine/Atari stuff works out. I'd hope that Turbine does not get screwed again like Microsoft did them with AC2.
Yeah. But Turbine isn't that "small company" it was a few years ago. They've hired so many people this and past year, many of them for Marketing and business growth. So I'd expect they've prepared very well and have good support of lawyers as well as investors here. We've read recently, that Turbine's CEO, Jim Crowley, said that Turbine is in the process of buying out their licenses for all their game worldwide. So probably it didn't go smooth - as it is Atari who hold the rights for Europe. But with those recent (and not so recent too) news of multi million $ investments in Turbine, I bet they have the strongest support possible. If Turbine succeeds and retakes whole D&D IP for MMO games, they could do anything. DDO2, open worlds, console D&D MMOs, everything. I bet they were never allowed to create a new D&D MMO, so they chose to revamp what they've done to date, and be pioneers of AAA F2P MMOs.
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I like both DDO and LOTRO...but do you think Turbine planned for all this in order to sue Atari and incorporate full DnD mmo rights into the settlement?... I mean..perhaps they realized Atari was not in the position to go whole hog into advertising..so they set up an agreement for the F2P and extension on the license..knowing Atari would default on their end...so to speak?. Kind of like what the banks financiers did with housing loans to low income families. hic!...CAW! |
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Originally posted by Sarr
The only thing which speaks from your post, is that it your opinion and game knowlegde of DDO doesn't even match severe mediocrity... Now, how would you know anything about my knowledge of DDO, Sarr? Let's see; - I've been alive almost twice as long as you have, and have been playing RPGs, primarily D&D, for about fifteen years before you could even read. - Ten years before you even had a credit card (or most likely a computer of your own), I was already playing Everquest and had beta tested Asheron's Call. I subscribed to Asheron's Call for six years total. If you have ever played Asheron's Call, you could not help but be disappointed by DDO. - I beta tested DDO. Did you? Even then, it was apparent that DDO was little more than an engine test for LOTRO. It was creatively dry and claustrophobic, and remains so to this day. - Is my opinion "mediocre"? Perhaps. Then again, we hardly have to rely on my opinion, do we? Millions of gamers have voted with their wallets. So apparently, DDO is either mediocre or worse. Maybe you would prefer I used the word "competent"? Yes, Turbine made a functional MMO that was based (loosely in many cases) on D&D. So in that respect, they were competent. It's sad that many of the game mechanics in the original Everquest were closer to tabletop D&D than those in DDO. I have nothing against Turbine; I keep wishing that they would do something truly remarkable along the lines of Asheron's Call. DDO simply isn't it, and I would like to see someone else get the opportunity to really bring the world of D&D to life.
Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq |
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Originally posted by Dubhlaith Probably the most clueless post I have seen this week. The only top tier developers out there are Turbine and Blizzard, everyone else is 2nd tier or lower. While you might not like their games, but their gameplay, graphics and content they are up there with the best. The big problem with DDO, besides the heavy instancing, is that the pvp is an after thought. You want to spout nonsense, expect to get nailed for it on this board. It's sad that many of the game mechanics in the original Everquest were closer to tabletop D&D than those in DDO. All I can say about that quote is that you can't have ever played table top D&D then. Everquest is not even close to D&D ruleset. Turbines big problem with DDO is the D&D ruleset, it just does not lend itself to a online game. Most board game rulesets do not fit well with an online game. |
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Originally posted by Ironic that a narrowly minded post, one which hints at fiction rather then fact, can claim their opinion is the only valid one. DDO, choppy? My advice is to get a job, save some money and build a reasonable gaming PC. You can get one that runs DDO very nicely for no more then $500 including keyboard, mouse and monitor. If its choppy, its you. I run the game in DirectX10 in 1680x1050 and it looks wonderful! The game play of Dungeons & Dragons Online really is more advanced then the majority of MMO's on the market. Is that advanced form of play part of the downfall? possibly, but when you look at the success EVE Online's been experiancing, which is even more complex, it gives enough reason to suggest that stupid people aren't the only ones playing these games. Can anyone reading this thread please do all of us DDO supporters a favor? Send us a pm, or post in the thread, other Games which have dynamic character builds which span beyond a single class and allow players to actively, in real time, dodge incoming attacks, roll out of the way of a Fireball flaying towards you, disarm traps or carfeully jump over them if you can't while using the game environment as part of the strategic application of the gameplay. There's one problem, DDO is ahead of the curve when it comes to dynamic MMO's. Granted, the role-play in DDO is not great. The emotes are very weak, but that's it. Just because you can't simulate drow on drow love through the use of emotes does not make the game poor. ok - that's just an opinion. ;)
p.s. please recomend other games if you think you know something which has greater dynamics and a more active playstyle in a game that's based on real time strategy. please!
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No, indeed, I am actually quite interested in why I upset or annoyed you enough for you to look at my recent post history to find something that you could say to invalidate my thoughts. Those thoughts are my opinions, and yes, they are very strong. But then, they are based in my experience in both games. But no, I do not play Perfect World, and from looking at it, I doubt I will. You have jumped the gun and assumed something with no evidence at all. As such, you have lost the right to an opinion I will ever take seriously. In fact, I consider you vile for even trying such a thing. Please support games that deliver a new and innovative experience. Eve, Ryzom, Ultima Online, Fallen Earth, Asheron's Call, Darkfall, Wurm and, other similar games deliver immersive Worlds, not Maps with mini-games or killing with no story. Even if you do not like the games themselves, support and appreciate the effort of developers to try something new. |
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ATARI is low. Look into what they have done time and again and I cannot believe anyone does business with them. I mean look at the Champions Online lifetime/6 month subscription deal debacle. Cryptic is taking all the slack on this one when ATARI is primarily to blame. They are the ones that also handled that game's preorder deals. In the past ATARI has kept this shady tripe relegated to low profile projects, but it even spilled over into the popular UNREAL TOURNAMENT series in the late 90's and the "Do something UNREAL" contest prize stuff. They really are a sour bunch over there. I mean, what happened to them? Anyways I really like DDO, but it feels so restricted for some reason. Also there isn't enough content. Repeating quests over and over is far from enjoyable. There is a lot of that (I mean bucketloads) repeat stuff. I mean was DDO even doing OK prior to this? Not really. LotRO is Turbine's real cash cow I think. (I could be wrong there.) Still DDO seemed so second fiddle it isn't even funny. I would almost like to see another more respectfully done version of D&D as an MMO using the 4.0 rules set, but I doubt it will be much more playable unless they don't go the route of DDO and make you repeat the crap out of things. I would love a random level based quest system along with the main story stuff. THAT would be great. I just don't know with this one. I don't feel obliged to "side" with either party really. I despise ATARI for what they have steadily become and I don't really know enough about Turbine other than they made a grindfest of a D&D game and a decent (if not down right fun) LotR MMO. I just don't know. heh. -Tatsu Oyama |
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Sarr
Apprentice Member
Joined: 8/19/08
I'm positive about what I play. If it ends & I get negative, I move on. This is how we not troll. |
Originally posted by TatsuOyama
But man, this game is just having a relaunch! There's going to be much faster and better development. They start to experiment and multi-ended quests (non linear, like in true RPGs) and new quest already have some new options in them. Also, they say that user created content is a thing they want in DDO, just not done yet. If only Atari won't screw them over too much (preferably, they will lose this case), Turbine has the potential to make this game very popular. It even was very popular and nicely populated during this last beta. Have you tried this new version yet?
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In addition to that, the bastardisation of mood and lore upsets me a great deal. I do not see how this is more clueless than your posts. We both are asserting our opinions with no citations. We are both entitled to them. And I am entitled to think you wrong and not very clever. That is what a public forum is all about. As for your comment about Everquest, I am fairly sure the point was that EQ did not have systems terribly similar to D&D. Neither does DDO. Just using the same words to describe something does not mean it functions in the same way. I have played tabletop for years, and that is a large reason that DDO is so offensive to me. Please support games that deliver a new and innovative experience. Eve, Ryzom, Ultima Online, Fallen Earth, Asheron's Call, Darkfall, Wurm and, other similar games deliver immersive Worlds, not Maps with mini-games or killing with no story. Even if you do not like the games themselves, support and appreciate the effort of developers to try something new. |
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Infalible
 Advanced Member
Joined: 10/03/07
The ability to focus attention on important things is a defining characteristic of intelligence. |
I find it very interesting to note the series of events that led to this occurence. I don't actually buy Turbine's stance in this matter. Turbine developed a poor game and then continued to perpetuate this poor game with equally poor content development. At the time, Atari marketed and funded the title to the best of their ability considering the financial problems they were finding themselves in. Atari have NEVER taken a D+D derivative and not marketed the shit out of it and DDO was no difference. DDOs failings came in the fact that Turbine developed a shit, PvE game that offered none of the elements that made D+D games popular. The fault is with Turbine ultimately. However, note that Turbine left this a while. Dwindling subscriber numbers for DDO and LotRo mean that Turbine are probably having a hard time securing large sums of money via investment right now. I know they have just picked up a substantial amount of cash but it certainly isn't enough to keep LotRo and DDO running, as well as look forward to their next MMO and the continued development of their "brilliant" (yet totally fucking bollocks) engine. They've switched DDO to an F2P model and - after it received really, really bad reactions from beta players - they pushed back the release because they are now certain that it isn't going to save the game anyhow. This is simply a money saving option. They are hoping that this court case will line their coffers enough to carry the losses they will suffer over the coming year when DDO goes with a bit of integrity. Sadly however, the only thing they will achieve is... a slight dent perhaps? It's pretty common knowledge that Atari purchased Cryptic with the hope of working on and delivering a new D+D MMO. I sincerely believe that the court should take witness from people who are in a position to offered balanced criticisms of the game, from release and through until now. That way, Turbine can whine all they want about Atari ditching the shit pile that is DDO. The court will simply find them in contempt of gamers and throw the case out. However, that is a dream. It's more than likely that Atari will have to pay damages to Turbine. Then, Turbine will be dismayed when Cryptic release their D+D MMO that - whilst not anything special - will be better than DDO. Turbine are a bunch of arrogant, big headed gits frankly. They seem to have this weird opinion that they are the best MMO developer out there. They aren't. Far from it in fact. |
Originally posted by TatsuOyama
That's interesting, I think Lord of the Rings Online is terrible. Seriosuly, I cannot stand it. I simply do not get the static combat systems that people claim are so much fun. They're bad and they make people even dumber. there's a point where we stop using our fingers to paint and start using brushes - games like eq, wow, lotro, are like Finger Painting By Numbers. for the record - I hated DDO when it first launched and didn't play beyond the free month. Returning a little over a year later I was absolteuy impressed by the advancements made which caused the game to become what I would consider an all time great MMO. In the same category I would also place pre-cu Star Wars Galaxies and EVE Online, both of which had/have incredible open ended dynamics. DDO is a hack-n-slash rpg with open-ended character building. Every other MMO strives to accomplish this even though they haven't been able to. the primary flaw with DDO was that the early version of Beta didn't properly capture the open area environments that are expected in online games and in the D&D mid-adventure themes. Its come so far since then it makes people who reference that period as being completely out of touch with the current state of the game.
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Originally posted by Ozmodan Probably the most clueless post I have seen this week. The only top tier developers out there are Turbine and Blizzard, everyone else is 2nd tier or lower. While you might not like their games, but their gameplay, graphics and content they are up there with the best. The big problem with DDO, besides the heavy instancing, is that the pvp is an after thought. You want to spout nonsense, expect to get nailed for it on this board. It's sad that many of the game mechanics in the original Everquest were closer to tabletop D&D than those in DDO. All I can say about that quote is that you can't have ever played table top D&D then. Everquest is not even close to D&D ruleset. Turbines big problem with DDO is the D&D ruleset, it just does not lend itself to a online game. Most board game rulesets do not fit well with an online game.
Hmmmm.... Have you ever rested (camped) anywhere you wanted to or needed to in a campaign to recover health in tabletop D&D? Hint: The answer is yes, unless you have never played D&D. Can you in DDO? Hint: The answer is NO. Can you in EQ? Hint: the answer is YES.
I have crafted items in tabletop D&D. There is an actual crafting system in tabletop D&D. Can you craft in DDO? Hint: The answer is NO. (please don't even mention upgrading, green steel items, etc. That isn't crafting, i.e. collecting raw resources and creating something new from them.) Can you craft in EQ? Hint: The answer is YES.
Have you ever had a random encounter in tabletop D&D? Can you have them in DDO? Hint: The answer is NO. (again, please don't mention anything that occurs in an instance. Those aren't random encounters.) Can you have them in EQ? Hint: The answer is YES.
Have you ever selected a diety in tabletop D&D? Can you have them in DDO? Hint: The answer is NO. Can you have them in EQ? Hint: The answer is YES.
I could go on, but anyone who has played both tabletop D&D and EQ knows that their systems are very closely related. It makes sense that they should be, as D&D (and several D&D inspired MUDs) was the inspiration for Everquest. When you seek to bring a well-known and beloved tabletop rpg (like D&D) with a robust rule set and an expansive, existing game world to a massive multiplayer platform, you are, by default, accepting the fact that this design will require MORE of the developer than your average MMO. As the developer, you may choose to do less; but that "less" will result in disappointment, poor sales and little success. Turbine chose to do less. It's that simple, and sad, because they did FAR MORE with Asheron's Call. I would like to see a new developer get the chance to do more, starting with an open game world.
Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq |
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Sarr
Apprentice Member
Joined: 8/19/08
I'm positive about what I play. If it ends & I get negative, I move on. This is how we not troll. |
Originally posted by Infalible
You're compiling a bunch of gossip and call it common knowlegde. I think you have the same "knowlegde" about D&D Online, if we talk about what it is now and not what it once was, at the launch. When did you play DDO for the last time? Have you played it at all? From your posts, one can be almost sure you haven't. Just follow old gossip. PS: So you say this is complete failure? Check solo vid from last beta:
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Somnulus: I am not going to quote your post too, but I just love your comparisons between the two games, and I think they prove your original point quite well. There are of course many difference between EQ and D&D, but the two are much closer than D&D and DDO. Some of these Turbine fanboys are driving me up a wall. I hope this evidence might drop them a peg. I will not hold my breath.
Sarr: Yes, that is what I would call failure. Look at the UI. Look at the action bars in particular. Look at the way the character moves. Look at the combat animations in particular. Look at the way his feet seem disconnected from the ground. Look at the way he moves across the ground in unnatural ways. They have added more terrible content, yes, but the game itself is the same as it ever was. The engine functions the same, and it still runs poorly and makes the characters look terrible. And do not forget the hideous UI. At least LOTRO has a pretty UI to go with their terrible models and animations and gameplay. Side note: LOTRO Minstrels can kill monsters with music. On that basis alone the game loses and makes a mockery of the magnificent world created by Tolkien. Please support games that deliver a new and innovative experience. Eve, Ryzom, Ultima Online, Fallen Earth, Asheron's Call, Darkfall, Wurm and, other similar games deliver immersive Worlds, not Maps with mini-games or killing with no story. Even if you do not like the games themselves, support and appreciate the effort of developers to try something new. |
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Sarr
Apprentice Member
Joined: 8/19/08
I'm positive about what I play. If it ends & I get negative, I move on. This is how we not troll. |
Originally posted by Dubhlaith
You love when someone agrees with your opinion? Is it any stronger now? Nope. I actually love Turbine's engine and the fact that it's the most advanced out there. Can you tumble, dogde, block monsters (due to collision system) with your tanks in any other MMO? I also love their graphics. They have that distinct feel you either love or hate. You may hate it, but that's a matter of taste. And nothing even a small bit bigger. For example, I hate WoW graphics and engine - and I see tons of similar engines. Does it make it "bad"? Just becasue me and probably most people in this thread don't like it? No. That's a matter of personal tastes. EDIT: To the post above. WHAT? So I think you just see what you want in this vid of not-so-great quality
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Of course I like people to agree with me. I take it you do not like that? Most advanced is kind of a joke. Spellborn comes to mind with dodging and blocking, just offhand. GW has collision as well. Their graphics are beautiful. But art is a matter of taste. The quality of the engine is less so. DX10 graphics and quality art does not an engine or a game make. Please support games that deliver a new and innovative experience. Eve, Ryzom, Ultima Online, Fallen Earth, Asheron's Call, Darkfall, Wurm and, other similar games deliver immersive Worlds, not Maps with mini-games or killing with no story. Even if you do not like the games themselves, support and appreciate the effort of developers to try something new. |
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Too little info to take sides on the legal matter on who's right or not, and companies lie so much (they call it PR) that even with a lot of info I'd probably not take sides. Suffice to say I support any resolution that lets a high quality D&D MMORPG get made that actually reflects D&D and high quality MMORPG's. |
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Leodious
 Apprentice Member
Joined: 2/28/06
Socializer: 67% |
Wait, what?! Turbine is suing Atari? Because Atari didn't live up to it's end? In what universe? Atari tried hard to promote the general bucket of slop that is DDO, even when they were having money problems of their own. There is only so much you can do. This is just Turbine desperate for capital because they realized that the F2P DDO:EU isn't going to get them any more money than the P2P version. Which all by itself should tell you how naive or ignorant the business minds are over there. Do we have any word of a counter filing? |
Originally posted by Leodious
I may be wrong, but from what the article said they had an agreement until 2016 in relation to the D&D IP and Atari tried backing out in November 2008 and withdrew all of their support from the game. I think that's the main illegal event that they're suing over. In addition to using the D&D IP with their new company Cryptic, when they're supposed to be supporting it with Turbine.
Edit: I've noticed your lack of research in responses in other threads too, like the Champions Online one where you tried to bash my statement but then I gave proof on how he is a fanboy and not being sarcastic. Please read and provide some evidence before you post in the future. You can also revisit that post with links to how his posts aren't sarcastic. http://www.excelion-legion.com/ |
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Sarr
Apprentice Member
Joined: 8/19/08
I'm positive about what I play. If it ends & I get negative, I move on. This is how we not troll. |
Another video. This time it's not even from new DDO version, but old - this is how it looked year ago. Dedicated to those who said DDO isn't fast. isn't thrilling, has bad graphics and poor gameplay: And actual screenshots I made in the game. Many still from older version, which had worse graphics, without DX10. Most were taken by me, plus there's one map of continent from books:
If those look bad to you, then it's a matter of taste.
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Leodious
Apprentice Member
Joined: 2/28/06
Socializer: 67% |
Oh, wow. That's low. I don't have much love for Turbine or their games, but Atari...really? They should at least pretend to try and help Turbine out. I think the theory that this is a plan on Atari's part to back out and give the rights to someone else. I would like that, personally, but this is not the way to go about it. I think I was a bit hasty here based on my general dislike of Turbine. I think Turbine will be able to secure that 30 mil, based on the facts as we know them. |
Originally posted by Leodious I'm not very much a fan of Turbine at all, but I'm actually interested in what they've done with DDO. All of those things aside, I would still be very upset with Atari for such a backhanded move. It really makes me wonder who's behind all of the Cryptic marketing fiasco's. It's probably Atari's fault. http://www.excelion-legion.com/ |
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You really haven't played in beta, am I right? Half of what you wrote just isn't true. No connection with surface? Man, DDO has it done the best you can find anywhere.
. Hmm, all your points aren't accurate. But there's no point in arguing over a video too! That's ridiculous! Just download the game for free and see. I'm 100% confident here, so just see for youself - no bullshit, you're wrong.
