Originally posted by ivier

Originally posted by Zionnax

Originally posted by gatheris

could someone please explain how you "run out" of what seems to be a virtual item?

maybe it is too many people to let into closed beta for STO?

if this is the case would it kill someone to just tell it like it is?

 

I'll try to keep it simple, without minimizing it so much that the point is lost...
 

Offering people this "special" does "cost money".  I use quotes because cost is not always understood by the end-customer.  By offering these lifetime memberships, they take an amount of money up-front.  For that amount, they have to provide service to that customer while the game is "live".

If the game rights remains with the original developer, and they host it, and they publish it etc., then they can sell as many as they want!  All the money goes into their pocket.  Where it becomes "costly" is when you have publishers involved, and when you may actually want to sell your IP and move on to the next big thing (as Cryptic did with NCSoft and the CoX franchise). 

When a developer enters into an agreement with a publisher, there is usually percentage of box sales and percentage of subscription dollars that are payed to the publisher.  Publishers would want to limit the number of lifetime accounts sold, as they stand to make much less off of those customers than through the normal sales channels.  My guess is the publisher put a limitation on the number of lifetimes that could be sold, not the developer Cryptic.

When you try to sell the product, the prospective buyer inherits those lifetime accounts; they recieved no payment for those accounts, and never will.  They inherit the cost of continued development, hosting, and support without the subscription income from those lifetime accounts.  This can (not always) be negative to the prospective buyer.  If you constantly have new players coming into the game, lifetimes can be seen as positive, as they can provide a stable long-term player base.  This makes new players feel like the game is "alive" when they join.  If the game has become stagnant in terms of new players, then lifetimes are simply a liability and drain.

 

What you say is true. But life-timers are still sources of income of Champions, as their microtransaction system provides an alternate source of income for them. That being said, someone who does not have to pay a monthly fee is likely to spend that equivalent amount on the micro transactions to enhance their play. Making the financial risk of having life-timers quite a bit smaller.
 

 

You may very well be correct.  From what I've heard from Cryptic, the microtrans in the game will be very minimal, and cosmetic only.  Unless they have changed this approach (and really, we won't know how far they go until months into the game), we can't really speak to how much they may or may not make off of microstransactions.  I will say this, if they decide to "screw" their subscribers over, and switch to a heavy F2P microtrans system, then the lifetime subs won't end up costing them a thing :)
 

Originally posted by donjuanamigo

Originally posted by wraith808

Originally posted by donjuanamigo

why do any of you care if they have run out or not? if you had no plans of buying one, then you have no need to even comment and if you havent bought one by now, you certainly were not within the next 7 days.

 

Wrong.  I just picked up the pre-order last week, and played in the open beta.  I didn't get paid until Friday, and my check didn't clear until today.  Which when the deadline was August 31st was plenty of time... If I had known there were limited quantities, I would have transferred the money from another account.  But if you don't say that it's limited by quantity, but time, people will take you at your word.

 

if you wanted it that bad you would have moved the money. i call BS on your above statement. also, if you had to wait for a check to clear to spend 200 bucks you probably shouldnt be spending said money on an MMO.

hehe...

Ok, I am getting really sick of this.

You feel lied to by cryptic? Who cares.. the original offer post clearly stated they were a limited number and limited run, the email mailing clearly stated limited. The offer was up for plenty of time for you to take advantage IF you ever had any intention of taking advantage.

I am sure there are a handful that planned to take advantage and missed the window, but nothing like the response of hateful angry people posting.

It is sickening how my fellow gamers swarm anything negative they ever see on the forums like a pack of jackels on a wounded gazelle.

I am VERY confident in saying this as I am sure that at least half of the hateful negative posts being made are by gamers who never had any intention of playing champions in the first place and are just angry their free lunch open beta is over and done.

{ Mod Edit }

Next is microtransactions for new power sets.... then those we expected for costuming.   

The worst part about all this is HG:L was a better game.

And BTW... you may have deleted my last post... but that does not make the information contained within it not true.

Originally posted by Sorrow

 

Ok, I am getting really sick of this.

 

You feel lied to by cryptic? Who cares.. the original offer post clearly stated they were a limited number and limited run, the email mailing clearly stated limited. The offer was up for plenty of time for you to take advantage IF you ever had any intention of taking advantage.

I am sure there are a handful that planned to take advantage and missed the window, but nothing like the response of hateful angry people posting.

It is sickening how my fellow gamers swarm anything negative they ever see on the forums like a pack of jackels on a wounded gazelle.

I am VERY confident in saying this as I am sure that at least half of the hateful negative posts being made are by gamers who never had any intention of playing champions in the first place and are just angry their free lunch open beta is over and done.

{ Mod Edit }

 

Actually, the servers are still up. I am not angry, but you obviously are. I am however disappointed in Cryptics decision (so far) to not honor the ads which clearly stated "limited time" which was defined as before September 1st. Only a single forum post ever said anything about a limited quanitiy, until the announcement on the 24th just hours before the last one was sold.

I bought the 6 month pretty much straight away, i dont understand why people are complaining i pretty much guessed they would be a limit so i did not hang about, why moan at the end the offer instead of just buying it at the begining

Originally posted by k1klass

I bought the 6 month pretty much straight away, i dont understand why people are complaining i pretty much guessed they would be a limit so i did not hang about, why moan at the end the offer instead of just buying it at the begining

Well that would be because the advertisements they sent out vie email and had on thier front page, said the offer ends September 1st. And gave no indication of limited supplies. For a digital commodity, unlimited supplies are automatically assumed unless stated otherwise.

Well, for me its simple.

I was planning to get the lifetime offer and otherwise I wouldnt even touch the game.

Since they clearly stated the offer would be till september 1, i didnt get it yet.

Now its too late, because its socalled: sold out. YEAH RIGHT, lol.

Its for them a win/win situation, every lifetime abbo they sell:

Use some simple calculus and probability:

A lifetime is basically equally worth as 2.5 year of paying in yearly payments or something. (due to money getting less valuable, due to cryptic being able to invest their income right away, due to cryptic to repay loans faster etc, etc etc, loads of advantages for cryptic)

If 100 people would buy a lifetime abbo, that doesnt equal 100 people, that would play for 2 a 3 years.

Yet, thats the break even point of subbing or lifetime abbo.

Most of them would stop sooner or later or visit it very casually, which means, less need for cryptic anyway to expand their server park for such a player.

Everyone one of that group, that plays less then 2.5 years in the next 5 years, is basically for them: extra money, then they would get with normal subs.

Anyway, they didnt follow their own advertisements and are coming up with very bad arguments.

Clearly they have no respect for their possible customers and can not be trusted at all, 1 september is 1 september and not 25th august.

So, sorry, i am not gonna buy even a box now to try it out further and in NO WAY, i am gonna sub to this game.

 Enough others coming out, even if they might be less good then champions online, i dont care, i dont like companies, that lie and cant be trusted.

@ spdkilla

Odd... And I even sifted through the deleted stuff to make sure I didn't miss anything. <shrug></shrug> Still, sombody there failed at basic communication. "Limited" imparts no useful detail whatsoever and they deserve every flame they get on this topic.

That said... People actually complaining that they missed out on this deal are nuts. You're playing the equivolent of the stockmarket with a third string MMO title, only marginally better than a f2p. Operating on faith for the first year and change isn't my idea of of a good investment and you have no guarantees the rules won't change six months from now.

Likewise, I really do believe the 'limited' aspect is more than a marketing ploy and they're probably fairly sincere on the apology.  You can damn well bet the number of slots for that offer were limited because after a year, that customer stops generating revenue for them. Unlike some, I'll bet you don't see this offer extended because of this fact. The more they offer, the less they will ultimately make. Sure, you get the initial burst of cash, but long term? The company will die for lack of revenue if they release too many lifetime offers. The best disgruntled gamers can hope for is a limited (very limited) renewal of the offer, but the angery mob is still going to outnumber the lucky few by a very large margin.

I guess what it comes down to is I'm really not seeing a real conspiracy here. Somebody legitimately screwed up, got flamed and apologized. The very mechanics of the market they operate in pretty much bare out the truth- They can't do what people are accusing them of just to yank chains because they live and die by a subscription base, not a one off discount charge. They offer too many of these and they die and that's it.

Originally posted by spdkilla

Originally posted by Ozzallos

Since i've been continuously receiving their emails, i decided to go back and take a look at a couple. I'd have to agree, they certainly didn't go out of their way to advertise either the Sept 1 deadline or the limited number of slots... Maybe they were somewhere else, but they definitely weren't in their mass emailing campaign

---------------------

We at Cryptic Studios and Atari are excited to announce our Champions Online six-month and lifetime subscription plans. Players who sign up for our long-term subscriptions will receive special perks, including eight additional character slots, special costume sets and guaranteed access to the Star Trek Online closed beta!

"Beyond the deep discount on the subscription rates, we wanted to come up with added incentives and exclusives that, as gamers, we could get excited about," said Jack Emmert, Cryptic Studios' Chief Operating Officer. "With an early commitment to Champions Online, granting guaranteed early access to our next big game, Star Trek Online, seemed like a great way to engage Cryptic’s biggest fans in other projects at the studio.”

Here are the great features our loyal customers will receive.

Discounted Lifetime Subscription

* Guaranteed Star Trek Online Closed Beta Access
* Eight Additional Character Slots
* Foxbat Vanity Pet
* Art Deco Costume Set
* Retro Future Costume Set
* STO Mirror Universe Costume Set

Discounted Six-month Subscription

* Guaranteed Star Trek Online closed beta access
* Retro Future Costume Set

Don’t miss out on these great deals! You can purchase your subscriptions now!

Discounted Lifetime Subscription
$199.99 USD
$219.99 CAN
£119.99 GBP W/OUT VAT
€147.99 EUR W/OUT VAT

Discounted Six-month Subscription
$59.99 USD
$65.99 CAN
£35.99 GBP W/OUT VAT
€44.99 EUR W/OUT VAT

------------------------------

That said, I'll give them something for a formal apology. Not much, but it's better than you'll get from some MMOs.

 

 

 

Not sure about your email but the top of mine said:

SUBSCRIPTION DEALS

Limited Champions Subscription Deals!
August 5, 2009

"We at Cryptic Studios and Atari are excited to announce our Champions Online six-month and lifetime subscription plans. Players who sign up for our long-term subscriptions will receive special perks, including eight additional character slots, special costume sets and guaranteed access to the Star Trek Online closed beta! "

"Beyond the deep discount on the subscription rates, we wanted to come up with added incentives and exclusives that, as gamers, we could get excited about," said Jack Emmert, Cryptic Studios' Chief Operating Officer. "With an early commitment to Champions Online, granting guaranteed early access to our next big game, Star Trek Online, seemed like a great way to engage Cryptic’s biggest fans in other projects at the studio.”

See yellow highlighted word above....

   That said, this was a big mistake on their part for not keeping their customers up to date. They really should have put a counter up on their ads and on the home page and order page as well.  I also agree if they stated the offer ends on Sept 1. then it should have ended on that date or they should have given 24-48 hours notice that they were reaching their cap and would be ending that offer early. They also could and should have sent out e-mails letting potential buyers know what was going on. All in all very poor communication with their potential customers and current ones. They get an F- on this one.

  The following may or may not pertain to the above poster ....Viewer Discretion is Advised....

    I also checked my emails a didn't see a single 1 that said Sept 1. was the cut off date. I think it was more an assumption. I may be incorrect it does happen. If i am I would love for someone to provide me a link  from cryptic.
 

    To those who really wanted the lifetime either you guys are:

1. Really UN-LUCKY (I mean Final Destination unlucky ... watch out for that car engine ouch  ....).

2. Some seriously 1st class Procrastinators  (been going on since at least Aug 5.) 

3. Have real life issues that trump a game which prevented an earlier sub order  ( then why complain online ).

   -  I it is a shame that you missed it ... ( no i didn't buy either Lifetime or 6 month as number 3 was my personal issue).

  note : edited for colors.

     /carry on

LIMITED as in TIME LIMITED, till Sept. 1 

NOTE: They have everybodys E-Mail as we all got this, why then wasn't notification  that they were running out sent out that way?

Why didn't the subscription page state LIMITED QUANITIES?

One post from a moderator buried in the forums, what the article link points to was the ONLY statement to supply

[quote][i]Originally posted by Sorrow[/i]

Ok, I am getting really sick of this.
You feel lied to by cryptic? Who cares.. the original offer post clearly stated they were a limited number and limited run, the email mailing clearly stated limited. The offer was up for plenty of time for you to take advantage IF you ever had any intention of taking advantage.
I am sure there are a handful that planned to take advantage and missed the window, but nothing like the response of hateful angry people posting.
It is sickening how my fellow gamers swarm anything negative they ever see on the forums like a pack of jackels on a wounded gazelle.
I am VERY confident in saying this as I am sure that at least half of the hateful negative posts being made are by gamers who never had any intention of playing champions in the first place and are just angry their free lunch open beta is over and done.
Most of you people disqust me and frankly I am so glad I won't have to put up with liars and whiners like you in game come friday.

edited to avoid more confrontation
[/quote]

First of all - Try using a normal size font.
Second - Heres an idea. Let them defend themselves. You're not Cryptic's lawyer. If you don't like whats being said here - leave.

Nobody is forcing you to read this or click "Post Message". What is the title of the topic? Are these responses to that question posed in the article? Then explain to me how anything you are saying is relevant other than Fanboi Nerdrage. Its not these people's fault that this is just plain shady. If they feel abused they have EVERY SINGLE RIGHT TO COMPLAIN. If you were on the other end, you'd be crying up a monsoon too.

For the RECORD

1.The EMAIL DID STATE THE WORD LIMITED - Upon clicking the link it was expanded (on the OFFICIAL website) to LIMITED TIME - NOT AMOUNT. The devs even posted in the forums that SAME DAY: -

"THESE WILL BE AVAILABLE UNTIL SEPTEMBER FIRST"

Read that again.
Now Read it one more time.

This combined with what they did constitutes FRAUD.
I am not a lawyer, but i DO know how to look up legal definitions and federal law relating to Fraudulent Advertising. Let me explain this so you know exactly why you sound like a total idiot here:

^{_{False advertising or deceptive advertising is the use of false or misleading statements in advertising. As advertising has the potential to persuade people into commercial transactions that they might otherwise avoid, many governments around the world use regulations to control false, deceptive or misleading advertising. Truth in labeling refers to essentially the same concept, that customers have the right to know what they are buying, and that all necessary information should be on the label or made public before the time of purchase.}}

^{_{A bait-and-switch is an offer of a service or product at a very low price (often a loss leader), with little or no intention to sell said service or product as advertised. If available at all, this low price is accomplished by lowering standards on the advertised product, such as guarantees, credit terms, volume, or quality, thereby making it undesirable.}}

^{_{Another method is to offer a "limited" deal, with only a few of the advertised product[s] per store. Once the consumer is in the store, sales personnel will try to coax him or her to purchase a different and more expensive product. This is more common, as it is often legal if there is a disclosure of the limited quantity available both via time and amount. This frequently happens on "Black Friday" newspaper ads published on Thanksgiving in the U.S.}}

Now in small words so you can understand:

By not disclosing (or "telling" people for you) the amount of available subscriptions that were intially posted and sending out marketing mails with a promise of availability on such item and / or service then switching them to a different "limited" method (in this case A figure of time was replaced with a unit count - with NO PRIOR INFORMATION) they have commited fraud. I admit it's barely over the line as they retracted the web page and put a new one up in its place with "time" replaced by "quantity".

As soon as you understand TIME and QUANTITY are 2 different words, you might begin to see the light. ALSO this is NOT the first time that the man in charge of all this has done this.

With your attitude it's ok for a guy to rob you neighbors as long as he doesn't bother you. YOU, sir are why values and integrity are piss in this country. You get what YOU want and everyone else be damned. Honestly. You really have no right whatsoever to open your mouth.Now go play your game while you can. God willing it won't be around long enough for you to get your $200 worth out of it. Then we all get to see you cry because you got DEFRAUDED. Jerk.

I pre-ordered my sub as FAST as I could.

In business, they may say "Look, we can afford to sell up to X number of these, after that we'd lose money".

Imagine if WOW gave lifetime subs for 200 bucks. For about 6 months they'd show a profit and then if most people took the deal, they would lose money. So you can afford a % as promotional for the 'hard core' and after that you start to lose money.

I'd study demographics to make a choice about how many to offer, not just wreck my business by opening the flood gates.

If 50% of on average in other MMOS's an industry standard is that Early Adopters only play for 1 month and then drop out, I'd give no more than 50% of my anticipated early adopters a chance at lifetime subscriptions. After that, its lost revenue for me.

It makes perfect sense to me they couldn't maintain the game with everyone having lifetime subs. I thought very hard about buying a second one for my daughter who is a COH die-hard player when she starts crying that no one is playing COH after CO, AION and DC Online put the nails in City of Heroes coffin.

"Ooh but we have power customizationn.."

"Great, so now I can see the same power I saw in 2001, but in purple!"

"No seriously though, keep playing COH, for your veteran reward its the same power we gave you 5 years ago, but now you can choose the sands of mu instead of the Ax you chose 5 years ago..although now the sands do less, this time."

City of Heroes is like that guy who goes on Springer and expects that the "Surprise" he is about to hear from his girlfriend may be a good one if they think I16 or Going Rogue will save them.

Originally posted by MrcdesOwnr

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by MrcdesOwnr

Originally posted by Korgana

Originally posted by MrcdesOwnr

Originally posted by gatheris

could someone please explain how you "run out" of what seems to be a virtual item?

maybe it is too many people to let into closed beta for STO?

if this is the case would it kill someone to just tell it like it is?

 

   Surely can! Cryptic fears that Champions Online isn't headed in the direction in regards to sales that the company first anticipated.  Marketing people over at Cryptic say, "hey, we've got an idea! Let's offer up a lifetime subscription to boost sales. It seemed to have worked for LOTRO." However, the bean counters over at Cryptic start to notice that the lifetime sub offer has had a much greater interest/turnout than expected and suddenly realize that they are losing money on said offer. Cryptic then proceeds to figuratively slam on the brakes (rather in this case, slam the car into a brick wall) on their promo!

Morale of the story:

MMO companies grow shadier and shadier as time moves on, i.e. Funcom!

 

Sorry you could not read but it always said "Limited Supply".

If your reply is directed at me, I will respond by saying the following:

I was in the Beta and did receive the offer via e-mail, however, neither did I read the offer, nor care as I have no intention of financing Captain Hypocrite and his band of merry men. Besides, if it is indeed a superhero genre game that I intend to play, I would much rather hold out for DCUO.

Thank you very much and have a nice day.  

sarcasm

Yeah, because SOE is that much better of a company when it comes to integrity.

/sarcasm

Seriously though, not defending Cryptic at all. This just goes to show that you can't really expect game companies to look out for their customers these days. Having "faith" or "trust" in a for-profit company that they will do right by you is almost totally foolish it seems.

A. I wasn't a customer of SOE's and therefore never experienced the fiasco of SWG. The whole fool ME once shame on... doesn't apply here for me on this one, sorry.

B. SOE may very well be the funding behind DCUO, but the development team is DC's own in house, which I will not fault for SWG.

I played Beta for Champions and aside from the numerous broken promises from Cryptic, not to mention the glaring hypocrisy by Jack Emmert (don't preach one thing to me, then do the exact opposite), Champions is nowhere near the release phase IMHO. . It just feels like AoC all over again to me. I'm also not partaking in Champions for the same reason I wouldn't buy a new car without the tires, doors and seatbelts.

Yeah, well, you wouldn't buy a new car without the tires, doors and seat-belts and I wouldn't eat at a restaurant that has been known to give people salmonella poisoning and has had health inspection failings to prove it. SOE are what they are, and they have shown that they won't just be happy "funding" games (Vanguard); they take them over eventually.

But, I don't expect you to take my word for it nor the factual concrete reality of the track record. By all means, experience it (SOE) for yourself. Jack Emmert is a choir boy compared to John Smedley when comparing histories. Which is not to say what Emmmert has said/done is "ok; his statement about RMT and then the 180 on that stance has all but canceled my desire to try STO - and I've never played a Cryptic game yet I don't need to to be wary. Just looking at the facts for what they are tells me to avoid SOE and be super wary of Cryptic.

Two things this game has with Hellgate:

1)  Lifetime Subs

2)  Bill Roper

I feel sorry for those ppl who payed lifetime sub for hellgate.  Don't get me wrong I liked Hellgate, just very disappointed with Bill's handling of his company and misshandling of Hanbitsoft.

I hope things don't go the route of Hellgate, but Lifetime sub idea sorta struck a cord with me... deja vu ?

Originally posted by gadunk

Originally posted by happilpie

I was one of the lucky ones that got a Lifetime Sub. I'm not  interested in CO really, got it for the guaranteed STO Beta.  I will play it until STO comes out though.   So I really have no reason to complain other than the fact that this shows just how shady Cryptic is.    They never announced anywhere that supplies were limited until they posted that message on the front page (during a play session of Open Beta) and in the middle of the night (for the US) .

Personally I'm thinking it has more to do with available Beta Slots for STO than it does with CO.  They are promising people beta slots with these promotions and know that it will be another HUGE PR blunder to let whoever just "signed up" in over someone that purchased their exclusive deal.  They also promised people who complained about this "Exclusive Offer" and didn't want to pay for their way into STO beta that they will still have a chance to get in just by "signing up" .   

Although I'm just speculating....I wonder if this means anyone that didn't get a lifetime/6mo offer or hasn't won a contest for a beta key from Cryptic pretty much out of luck with ever getting into STO beta. 

 

You paid $200 for a game you're not interested in so you could get into STO beta?  Really? heh eh ehe ehehehehehehehaaaaahahahah

I'm not super interested in CO. I played the open, and it convinced me that I could probably find a way to enjoy it for a years worth of time as it is a nice diversion from other things and games I play. If CoH had a lifetime sub at the time it came out, I'd probably have picked it up too, since I do enjoy it from time to time, but not enough to fork over 15 bucks for years at a time.

So I get CO for a years sub amount, forever (barring it collapsing, which I don't forsee yet).

Sure it has bugs, it might not be finished, etc etc. But now, I don't have to worry about it. I can come back whenever I want and play.

And of course, the $500 question: Will STO be worth buying.... which is what the beta slot is for. This deal could SAVE me money in the long run of STO turns out to be a turd (and I'm already not a huge fan of the way its heading, but never say never, I didn't think I'd enjoy CO as much as I did in the beta).

BTW, I've beta'd a lot of games, and the sheer volume of people during this OB was amazing. I know some open beta's that had 100 or fewer people on at a time, late at night.

Could Cryptic have handled this better? Of course. Did I know it was limited in quantity? Nope, though I may have read it at one point, I knew only that Sept 1st was coming, and if I wanted it, I better order.... which I did.... on Sunday.

Originally posted by harvest151

[quote][i]Originally posted by Sorrow[/i]

Ok, I am getting really sick of this.
You feel lied to by cryptic? Who cares.. the original offer post clearly stated they were a limited number and limited run, the email mailing clearly stated limited. The offer was up for plenty of time for you to take advantage IF you ever had any intention of taking advantage.
I am sure there are a handful that planned to take advantage and missed the window, but nothing like the response of hateful angry people posting.
It is sickening how my fellow gamers swarm anything negative they ever see on the forums like a pack of jackels on a wounded gazelle.
I am VERY confident in saying this as I am sure that at least half of the hateful negative posts being made are by gamers who never had any intention of playing champions in the first place and are just angry their free lunch open beta is over and done.
Most of you people disqust me and frankly I am so glad I won't have to put up with liars and whiners like you in game come friday.

edited to avoid more confrontation
[/quote]

First of all - Try using a normal size font.
Second - Heres an idea. Let them defend themselves. You're not Cryptic's lawyer. If you don't like whats being said here - leave.

Nobody is forcing you to read this or click "Post Message". What is the title of the topic? Are these responses to that question posed in the article? Then explain to me how anything you are saying is relevant other than Fanboi Nerdrage. Its not these people's fault that this is just plain shady. If they feel abused they have EVERY SINGLE RIGHT TO COMPLAIN. If you were on the other end, you'd be crying up a monsoon too.

For the RECORD

1.The EMAIL DID STATE THE WORD LIMITED - Upon clicking the link it was expanded (on the OFFICIAL website) to LIMITED TIME - NOT AMOUNT. The devs even posted in the forums that SAME DAY: -

"THESE WILL BE AVAILABLE UNTIL SEPTEMBER FIRST"

Read that again.
Now Read it one more time.

This combined with what they did constitutes FRAUD.
I am not a lawyer, but i DO know how to look up legal definitions and federal law relating to Fraudulent Advertising. Let me explain this so you know exactly why you sound like a total idiot here:

^{_{False advertising or deceptive advertising is the use of false or misleading statements in advertising. As advertising has the potential to persuade people into commercial transactions that they might otherwise avoid, many governments around the world use regulations to control false, deceptive or misleading advertising. Truth in labeling refers to essentially the same concept, that customers have the right to know what they are buying, and that all necessary information should be on the label or made public before the time of purchase.}}

^{_{A bait-and-switch is an offer of a service or product at a very low price (often a loss leader), with little or no intention to sell said service or product as advertised. If available at all, this low price is accomplished by lowering standards on the advertised product, such as guarantees, credit terms, volume, or quality, thereby making it undesirable.}}

^{_{Another method is to offer a "limited" deal, with only a few of the advertised product[s] per store. Once the consumer is in the store, sales personnel will try to coax him or her to purchase a different and more expensive product. This is more common, as it is often legal if there is a disclosure of the limited quantity available both via time and amount. This frequently happens on "Black Friday" newspaper ads published on Thanksgiving in the U.S.}}

Now in small words so you can understand:

By not disclosing (or "telling" people for you) the amount of available subscriptions that were intially posted and sending out marketing mails with a promise of availability on such item and / or service then switching them to a different "limited" method (in this case A figure of time was replaced with a unit count - with NO PRIOR INFORMATION) they have commited fraud. I admit it's barely over the line as they retracted the web page and put a new one up in its place with "time" replaced by "quantity".

As soon as you understand TIME and QUANTITY are 2 different words, you might begin to see the light. ALSO this is NOT the first time that the man in charge of all this has done this.

With your attitude it's ok for a guy to rob you neighbors as long as he doesn't bother you. YOU, sir are why values and integrity are piss in this country. You get what YOU want and everyone else be damned. Honestly. You really have no right whatsoever to open your mouth.Now go play your game while you can. God willing it won't be around long enough for you to get your $200 worth out of it. Then we all get to see you cry because you got DEFRAUDED. Jerk.

 

Yellow text = Truth

Which is why I've stated before these people won't be seeing a dime of my money until they change their ways or some of these crooks get canned, preferably both.

Orange text = The Ugly Truth

Everyone on here that is either defending this act or think it "no big deal" is either selfish and/or too self consumed to give a rat's behind about others, as they've already got their sub and that is all that matters to them; or they're just too stupid to see when Joe Corporate is trying to screw over anyone in his path in order to satisfy his taste for greed. Which brings me to the underlying problem for America's (as well as some other countries) current economic situation. Unfortunately these business practices are becoming more and more common, due to the fact that too many people are willing to accept it.

Harvest's post = Smartest post in this thread so far

If only more people in this country thought the way you did, our country would be much better off than the mess it's currently in.

It may take legal action before some of the nitwits on this site will wake to the fact that what Cryptic/Atari has done was not right and just, but I won't hold my breath.

  However, those that have been screwed over, can take comfort in knowing that many who were in the beta, like myself, thought that this game was pure rubbish. More importantly however, was that Marvel conveniently bailed on this game and Cryptic, deciding to abandon the realm of MMOs and leaving Cryptic to find an alternative IP in Champions. Now, suddenly Marvel has tossed their hat back into the ring and has partnered up with Gazillion Entertainment to once again pursue the development of an MMO. When it comes to smart business decision-making of late, I'd say Marvel has been much smarter than most. Kind of makes you wonder what they didn't like about either Cryptic and/or the early development of the game now called Champions.

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by MrcdesOwnr

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by MrcdesOwnr

Originally posted by Korgana

Originally posted by MrcdesOwnr

Originally posted by gatheris

could someone please explain how you "run out" of what seems to be a virtual item?

maybe it is too many people to let into closed beta for STO?

if this is the case would it kill someone to just tell it like it is?

 

   Surely can! Cryptic fears that Champions Online isn't headed in the direction in regards to sales that the company first anticipated.  Marketing people over at Cryptic say, "hey, we've got an idea! Let's offer up a lifetime subscription to boost sales. It seemed to have worked for LOTRO." However, the bean counters over at Cryptic start to notice that the lifetime sub offer has had a much greater interest/turnout than expected and suddenly realize that they are losing money on said offer. Cryptic then proceeds to figuratively slam on the brakes (rather in this case, slam the car into a brick wall) on their promo!

Morale of the story:

MMO companies grow shadier and shadier as time moves on, i.e. Funcom!

 

Sorry you could not read but it always said "Limited Supply".

If your reply is directed at me, I will respond by saying the following:

I was in the Beta and did receive the offer via e-mail, however, neither did I read the offer, nor care as I have no intention of financing Captain Hypocrite and his band of merry men. Besides, if it is indeed a superhero genre game that I intend to play, I would much rather hold out for DCUO.

Thank you very much and have a nice day.  

sarcasm

Yeah, because SOE is that much better of a company when it comes to integrity.

/sarcasm

Seriously though, not defending Cryptic at all. This just goes to show that you can't really expect game companies to look out for their customers these days. Having "faith" or "trust" in a for-profit company that they will do right by you is almost totally foolish it seems.

A. I wasn't a customer of SOE's and therefore never experienced the fiasco of SWG. The whole fool ME once shame on... doesn't apply here for me on this one, sorry.

B. SOE may very well be the funding behind DCUO, but the development team is DC's own in house, which I will not fault for SWG.

I played Beta for Champions and aside from the numerous broken promises from Cryptic, not to mention the glaring hypocrisy by Jack Emmert (don't preach one thing to me, then do the exact opposite), Champions is nowhere near the release phase IMHO. . It just feels like AoC all over again to me. I'm also not partaking in Champions for the same reason I wouldn't buy a new car without the tires, doors and seatbelts.

Yeah, well, you wouldn't buy a new car without the tires, doors and seat-belts and I wouldn't eat at a restaurant that has been known to give people salmonella poisoning and has had health inspection failings to prove it. SOE are what they are, and they have shown that they won't just be happy "funding" games (Vanguard); they take them over eventually.

But, I don't expect you to take my word for it nor the factual concrete reality of the track record. By all means, experience it (SOE) for yourself. Jack Emmert is a choir boy compared to John Smedley when comparing histories. Which is not to say what Emmmert has said/done is "ok; his statement about RMT and then the 180 on that stance has all but canceled my desire to try STO - and I've never played a Cryptic game yet I don't need to to be wary. Just looking at the facts for what they are tells me to avoid SOE and be super wary of Cryptic.

 And if I do decide to partake in DCUO and SOE decides to take the development of that game into it's own hands and therefore out of DCs, then that'll be the end of it for me in regards to that game.

 There are just way too many choices out there in the MMO genre, ie good companies, to be giving my money to the crooked ones.

 I got the 6month, I didnt really wamnt the costume since I'll be playing on Halloween anyway...lol

Originally posted by MikeB
Snip

I don't know if this has been posted yet but I just wanted to let you know that you and the rest of the gaming media, as well as Cryptic's customers have been lied to.

The link link they provided you was edited recently, within less than 10 days.

Proof: The link they gave you: http://forums.champions-online.com/announcement.php?f=27&a=7

Here's the Cache as of 08/15/09: http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:AGoyAMOGlNcJ:forums.champions-online.com/announcement.php%3Ff%3D27%26a%3D7+champions+online+limited+time+subscription+deals!&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

EDIT: Actually I have one as of Aug 21st still saying "offer good until Sept 1st" so they changed it less than 3 days before they announced their subscriptions were "running out".

209.85.229.132/search

Also this post by Daeke who I think is Jack Emmert :

"This is exactly right. We had no idea the response to these deals would be as big as they were, and therefore we’ve had to change the limiting factor from our original date to a physical limit. This wasn’t a “marketing scam” or anything that we planned from the start, it was a change we had to make due to the sheer volume of orders we’ve received.

Now that we’re a week away from launch, things are moving fast behind-the-scenes, and we needed to make sure that we gave you some warning instead of just cutting off the supply as soon as we ran out. "

forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php

Too funny, I wasn't even looking that close and I didn't want it. But even I knew it was limited. The low number thay had on them, I'm surprised they lasted this long. if you waited this long to do it, it is your own fault.

Originally posted by qotsa

Too funny, I wasn't even looking that close and I didn't want it. But even I knew it was limited. The low number thay had on them, I'm surprised they lasted this long. if you waited this long to do it, it is your own fault.

Yeah it's my fault I planned to weigh in beta and early start because Cryptic lied and advertised a limited time instead of a limited supply. This would be like blaming me for missing a flight that left a week earlier than my ticket. Use some common sense.

Originally posted by bullhead2007

Originally posted by qotsa

Too funny, I wasn't even looking that close and I didn't want it. But even I knew it was limited. The low number thay had on them, I'm surprised they lasted this long. if you waited this long to do it, it is your own fault.

 

Yeah it's my fault I planned to weigh in beta and early start because Cryptic lied and advertised a limited time instead of a limited supply. This would be like blaming me for missing a flight that left a week earlier than my ticket. Use some common sense.

    Too bad common sense is a trait that the vast majority of the general populous severely lacks.

 And if I do decide to partake in DCUO and SOE decides to take the development of that game into it's own hands and therefore out of DCs, then that'll be the end of it for me in regards to that game.

 There are just way too many choices out there in the MMO genre, ie good companies, to be giving my money to the crooked ones.

If they do, run, run like the wind.

I realize that they are updating and getting ready for the headstart but...

Doesn't it seem just a little too convienent that the CO forums are down for an indeterminate amount of time at the same time this is playing out?

Discounted subscriptions are back and unlimited until 11:59 p.m. (Pacific time) on August 31st.

http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?p=823672

Now people can stop complaining about the removal and start complaining about bringing it back... lmao