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Originally posted by rikilii
Name one.
Ok... Line Rider...Never seen anything even remotly like it when it was released. Draw your own levels and play them. Pretty unique, allthough copied today by other games. Oh, got another one. Audiosurf...Never seen anything like that before. What about World of Goo? Oh, and Eve was Elite with mmo-based combat aka I kick your shin, you kick mine. I got the bigger boot Gwahahahha..I win! Next please. Heh, thats a simplification of it, but almost every mmo follow this formula. Better gear wins, unless the user behind that toon is a bloody moron. |
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Originally posted by Remii718
They need to come up with something unique like the new aion mmo has done with their flight system or say like age of conan did with their combat system. Nah we destroyed AoC and Blizzard will copy anything Aion has that's interesting, same with TOR when it releases. Blizzard is good at giving its players exactly what they want. I don't care about innovation I just want a fun game to play. If my fun comes from stolen mechanics then so be it.
Unfortunately Blizzard is fully capable of doing this because all the games mentioned based their gameplay around the EQ/WoW model. This makes it easy for Blizzard to incorporate other company's ideas into their own game. I wonder then how well they'll do when Star Wars - The Old Republic comes out, since from what I've seen so far the gameplay and story-based focus make it unique on an otherwise homogeneous playing field. |
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Originally posted by slask777
That is actually very good news. Too many players rush through the content to get to max level asap and having a bigger source to pull players from that actually enjoy leveling and doing those instances is all good news. I rather instance all day than do yet another boring fedex quest, or kill 10 of those and bring me their tails/entrails or whatever. Those quests is fucking boring. Might even convince me to come back to the game and roll a lorebreaking class just for the heck of it(tauren pally ftw That goes for any mmo by the way. Too many players rush through content to get to endgame as fast as humanly possible. Endgame is most of the time bloody boring so dunny why the rush to get there. Raids is awesome the first 10 or so times you do em but when the raids go on farm, you get burned out so screw them. Endgame pvp is a damn joke in any mmo. Healing classes in almost every mmo either is impossible to kill or fold down faster than a bleeding avalanche. Yeah played a healer class in pvp and at worst took 5 people my level to kill that healer. Most gross example of OP I've ever seen in any mmo. He sucked solo in pve though. I think 3 BIG features stand out in the new (redone) WOW after its 5th anniversary. And they will have a big impact on the complete MMORPG scene. 1. The above cross server LFG tool to do dungeons (certainly stimulated with the new redone basic Azeroth lvl 1-60). Imagine just how MUCH content there is in those dungeons in all that game. It IS a solution to player limits in Fantasy based MMORPG's. 2. The possibility to gain experience in PvP doing BG's (joined from anywhere) (apart from the daily PvP quests). Giving PvP players an extra motiviation AND eliminate too much twinking in the leveling BG's. Couple this with the promised rated Bg's and end game PvP titles. 3. Phasing - world changing techniques - that we will see in the future. I am very curious if Blizzard prolongs its experiments with this. All 3 share something though: they are all 3 about problems of having enough people to keep an MMORPG running. Blizzard choose the clustered servers solution to have always enough people to do dungeons and battlegrounds up. Could there be a way where they could cluster servers in open world content with ... phasing ??? Something to think about ....
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Treat Blizzard like Mercedes. They see innovations and later implement this innovation while always maintaining the highest standard of quality. They make their players happy and coming back for more.
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Originally posted by Zorndorf 1) Its done in other games in several different ways. For example some have a single server with multiple instances / channels so all the fanbase can interact without causing the server to crash. I personally dont like it cause it harms the community. You are playing with some random people you dont know and probably wont ever meet again. I liked BG better before the cross-realm BGs 'cause you knew most of your enemies and allies and their guilds. Although I can see that gameplay-wise its a good feature that will help people group more and easier. 2) Exp and leveling through PvP is nothing new, Its actually and old idea. When they announced that I was happy, "this is the end of stupid twinks" I thought, but it came with a "Stop exp gain" feature. Its just sad that they had to wait for WAR to release to implement these ideas. 3) Phasing its a good tool. It still needs improvements but I think Blizzard will make it just fine.
www.aionworld.gr |
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Originally posted by CyberWiz OK ... Here's another one: look at ALL the words. Daily awarded... open world ... PvP quests ... on a PVE server the moment you accept the DAILY PvP quest (with a mixed PvE/PvP theme), you are targetted for PVP - even on a PVE server. Giving the advantage of some nice PvP ing in open world with the protection of getting ganked.... without the need to create specific RvR zones and still getting rewarded for fights with reputation AND experience AND honor. easy picking.
Quests that tag you for PvP, can't imagine that this hasn't been done before. But not very exciting either. edit : actually, this sounds alot like the Overt / Covert system in SWG but less good. Can't you find more exciting examples?
Ok, how about these.
Those are things that make overall gameplay much better. Almost nothing is a completely original idea anymore, but they sure as hell had an effect on the entire market like true innovation does to any industry. They will have a higher impact on future mmos than some one novel concept will. I don't think it is even worth singling out gameplay elements that are innovations from wow. True most are just evolutionary, but it has had its share of new features. Cross server technology is a huge feature that you dismiss far to easily. First of all it resolved a very large problem in the game, something most other companies cannot seem to do to their games. Secondly it is a pretty impressive feature in its own right. Dismissing it is very typical of these forums. People hold blizzard to some different standard and complain or downplay anything they do, despite it being the best built mmo on the market. On the flip side forum goes here are far to quick to praise other companies for things that should not be praised. Such as anything in warhammer. Calling public quests and the tome of knowledge innovation is such a double standard. Both of those existed in other games in various different ways. |
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Originally posted by Daffid011 The Tome, yes, but I don't think PQs did. If so, in what games? Hell, Vagrant Story (2000, Square, PS1) had a titles system which greatly added to replay value. |
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Originally posted by sancher36
I m glad someone else was a little disapointed with whats been proposed . Someone i know in WoW actually described it as doing a Caverns of Time on the whole of the game world . I will proberbly but not definatly try it a few months after its released and the price of the xpac comes down to about 10 pounds but I think this is a real con job . If it offered a graphics engine update i would be excited about it .Would nt it be great to play with a new graphics engine .Warcraft looks really dated now . Really all the Cataclysm does essentially is tinker around with the game world its the kind of thing you would expect in a major patch but not a paid for expansion pack . |
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In a way AC1 had these. When they had GM controlled events you had a set of objects to complete as just random people running into a town killing things before the main event would trigger. Not a standing quest that repeats itself, but the idea of a random 'quest' that people not in a group have to complete objects is the same idea. |
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Good lord. Honestly, who gives a Sh_t? WoW has been dumbed down to the point where a retarded monkey could hit 80 in a week. The PVP is a joke and every class is being copied over with this ridiculous "bring the player not the class" crap. This expansion is just like the other 2. More of the same exact crap. Hell, they are throwing epics at people in non heroics now. I could give less of a shit if that game lives or dies. I played it for 4 years going on 5, never again. Let them copy whatever they want. As stated by others, everyone does it and WoW gets blamed. Well guess what? when you are in the #1 spot prepare to take heat for everything. And on a side note, blizzard doesn't need us to defend them, they have a whole fleet of lawyers for that. Let people express their opinions and dislike any way they want as long as they don't verbally attack people. It's not the responsibility of anyone else to defend wow except wow. As to "unique" features. Yeah. Right. How are those new dance moves workin out for ya? |
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Originally posted by harvest151
Tree Druid dancing is totally awesome, BTW. |
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No game has been 100% new features since Pong. |
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Originally posted by sancher36
You guys do know this has been the Blizzard business style for years. The "original" WoW was not original at al. It took aspects of existing games and put them together, dumbed the game down and then put a little spit polish on it. To be surpised that this expansion takles opther ideas from other MMOs is silly, this is SOP for Blizzard. ============================= |
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Originally posted by Horusra
I'd say PQs are quite a step from that, seeing as they run automatically and have voice acting. |
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Originally posted by sancher36
Take it from someone who has played one of the best games Pre-WoW for just as many years (DAoC). Nothing is going to excite you about WoW for long, no matter what it is, when you've played a game for that long. Just be content that you still like and enjoy the game, because most people falter after 3 months of playing a MMO. Now let's use our brains for a moment. Blizzard makes more money than most corporations do in a year. They can afford to hire the best talent, and release polished expansions. I would argue because of this money, they should be able to offer us more for less, but that's another post entirely. But as for Blizzard not having ideas of their own or the fact that they borrow from other MMO's, this is not a bad thing at all. First off, Blizzard can afford to have their own ideas, and they do. Second of all, there isn't a whole lot of ideas or features that hasn't been thought of already. Third of all, it is a sign of intelligence to recognize a good feature in your competition and adopt it. There are no rules saying you must thrive off your own ideas, or fail. If that was the case, we would have monopolies everywhere and we'd be paying out the ass for everything. As for the new features, they have created a buzz already. So maybe it hasn't excited you, but it has excited many others. I for one am excited about the new class/race combinations, the new dungeons, the remaking of Azeroth, and everything else they're offering. Seems like you're looking for a change of game mechanics, not scenerey. Only thing I can suggest for that is to play a different game. Give DDO, TCoS or any other game similar with different game mechanics a try. You might be pleasantly surprised. |
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Originally posted by sancher36
Isn't this what they always have done? Did you realize this just now? |
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Originally posted by nate1980 A mostly excellent post, Nate. I do disagree about the race/class combos. That's just a matter of switching a few toggles and should have been put in a patch, not classed as content for an expansion. The most amazing thing about WoW's success is that Blizzard could (if they had the manpower and hardware) afford to put out a new AAA MMORPG each year. That is just scary.
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Is this 5-year old argument still going on?
Evolve, people. Evolve. |
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Originally posted by MMO_Doubter The Tome, yes, but I don't think PQs did. If so, in what games? Hell, Vagrant Story (2000, Square, PS1) had a titles system which greatly added to replay value.
There is another thread floating around the forums that discussed this and listed a number of examples of public quests. Keep in mind I am far from well versed on this, but the earliest example I think comes from ultima online. I think it was called champion events or something like that? People stood around some special spawn point that were somehow triggered and killed enough things until a champion would spawn. I'm sure that I butchered the details, but that is the basic idea of it. There are a number of other examples like Tabula Rasas defend point system, but I don't know if the ever functioned. Even wow had public quests prior to warhammer. The world events are a perfect example of a public quest, but on a much larger scale. The AQ gates event was a server wide public quest to gather resources to open the gate. The naxxramas event was similar and all around the world these little ziggurats would spawn [3-4 per zones] with about 100 minions protecting them. Kill enough minor minions and some lieutenants would spawn. Kill enough of those and some elites would spawn. Collect a bunch of crystals/shards off any corpse to activate the spooky crystals and then a major elite would spawn. The whole think would randomly respawn somewhere else in the zone 15 or some minutes after they were completed. That is the basic foundation of warhammers public quest system that people cheered as being such an innovation, but existed almost identically in another game before warhammer released.
People on this site have double standards. They cry about wow doing anything, but some other games does exactly the same thing and they cheer it as innovation. *shrug*
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Originally posted by Daffid011
No, I'm sorry. The AQ and Necropoli events were cool (and I wish Blizzard did that stuff more often), but that's not very similar to PQs. "The world events are a perfect example of a public quest" is a gross exageration. There is some similarity, but far from a perfect example. |
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The mechanics of the world events, especially the the ziggurat spawns around the world are nearly identical to warhammer PQs. Anyone could participate. They had specific measurements to advance the various stages. etc etc This is how the ziggurat events in warcraft worked.
That is the format for almost every warhammer public quest. With the exception of the convoluted contribution system, it is the same exact thing.
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Like someone mentioned, the big revolutionary steps were probably made in the genre, and now it is about who does the standard things better, more efficient, more user-friendly that wins. It's similar to mass market cars where the basic technology behind it is quite set, basic mechanics are more or less set - you have engine infront, trunk in the back, either 2 or 4 doors. The seats infront get moved back and forward with the handle under your seat. You have 3 (or two for auto) pedals - clutch left, break middle and accelerate right. You controll it by turning the steering wheel left end right. Now every time they make a new model of a car, they try to improve the comfort, make it more efficient, update the systems within, but they don't change the basic principles, and untill they figure out how to make a flying car (major revolution in technology), it will remain within those limits. That is I think where MMOs today are. |
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Originally posted by Daffid011 Good points. The PQs, however often have stages which required something other than just killing mobs. Burning tents or boats, turning over stones, etc. They aren't just about grinding mobs. |
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Originally posted by slask777
Look at the indie market. Lots of innovative, not to mention new ideas there. Those big developers develop big games with lots of money involved so their risk-taking is held on a very low level. Indie developers don't have that limitation. Sure, their games may not look as some bloody AAA title but they're stock-full of new ideas.
Name one.
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Originally posted by Mopar63
You guys do know this has been the Blizzard business style for years. The "original" WoW was not original at al. It took aspects of existing games and put them together, dumbed the game down and then put a little spit polish on it. To be surpised that this expansion takles opther ideas from other MMOs is silly, this is SOP for Blizzard.
Blizzard looks at other games and says hey that is cool and uses it, just like all other game designers do. Nothing new here. What is it with you people. Someone made an auto one day. Another guy looks at it and says hey I can do it better. So they make a new auto. Same goes for everything. Look at phones these days. Iphone comes out and look at all the copycats that come soon after. With that said, Blizzard also innovates. Look at phasing. Never saw that in any game I haev ever played. Look at all the mini-games you get in WoW. No game I ever played allowed for so many cool little mini-games within a game. Icecrown is full of them and so is the Tournament area. Some of the mini-games you find in WoW are unique to WoW and I do not see them being ripped off from other games.
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