TOR will be an MMO in the same way Guild Wars is an MMO. To tell you the truth, TOR is sounding a lot like Guild Wars, except with more choices in the story, and lacking the awesome skill system(which is one of my favorite things about Guild Wars). I have no doubt the story will be good, but as a poster just above me said I question how good the gameplay will be, as I found KotOR's story to be amazing and it's gameplay to be very dull.

I think this game will sell a lot of boxes, but it's retention will be based on whether there is anything to do in the game after the stories have finished.

As much as i hate (ok , mybe too hard  - don't love and never understand what so good about that game )  WoW we NEED that game.

We NEED WoW so all those kids stay there and don't come in ToR so we can have nice , polite ,fun community !

Just imagine army of 2-3 million whiners kids coming to ToR. In 3-4 months we will probably start to see Dwarf Jedi master , Elf's with carbines and so on.

So , YES we NEED that game

WoW already has captured the majority of the MMO market, so it will be difficult to steal customers away, no matter how good TOR will be.

I hink TOR will havr the fight mechanic of Knights of The Old Republic

Its been few years since i playd it but as i remember correctly u didnt have controll over the atacks on the other hand they where all automatic or somethingu did used only force skills etz but automatic atack wasnt under youre controll i think

Well one way or another it was very cool and i think  its going to be something simmilar and i see alot of smillilar things with KOTOR

And KOTOR was very nice game indeed but singel player

Originally posted by havok527

WoW already has captured the majority of the MMO market, so it will be difficult to steal customers away, no matter how good TOR will be.

Well i dont think its going to be difficult i can garantie u that whenever a promissing mmo is comming out minimum 30% of WoW players are playing it to see what it is like.

The older players of WoW like me are waiting like hungry dogs closed in a cage ( this would be WoW cage :)

and waiting to be realesed from theyre slumber .

Some new players that joined the gamethey will propably stay and play but i can tell u that in past 4 or 5 months WoW dropt from difficulti advanced player to blind noob without hands playing mode ....

All the raid instanzes everything has been made so easy all the job skills made easier that for those who know how it was ´´back in the old days ´´ its quite pathetic and its going all the time even furtherlooks like someone got promotion at blizzard and tries to change a lot but i dont think its going to be for the good ..

With Burning Crusade u needet skill also at the beginning of Wotlk u needed skill and when u had that item u wanted u knew that all the hard work paid off and now every noob /troll can have it its just not the same it used to be

 Gah the title mislead me! for shame...

Assuming anything before release is just plain dumb, I'm sorry but it is :/  We barely know 4 classes and have a gameplay video...but we can predict its success? please, take a number :P

WoW will be on top because they can still utilize metrics which may or may not be true at the time, due the sheer amount of accounts sold.  But beyond just wow or even old republic, the success of FFXIV, CO, STO, and even non-mmos will all effect WoW numbers, as will its new expansion - which is bound to bring about a large chunk back to WoW.

Frivilous to even assume, lets just hope for an old republic beta sooner than later...so all this madness can be qwelled a tad...

Originally posted by PapaB34R

looked at this thread and chuckled a bit, SWTOR beating WoW yeah right I thought but after watching the vids Im not too sure anymore... I mean probably they wont get near WoWs sub numbers but.. well it whiped my confidence of it to shreds.

The game looks amazing and whoever says otherwise well is either blind or a fanboi of some other mmo. The combat looks more action based and interesting then anything seen lately, although it reminded me some of Tabula Rasa in some aspects...

It got graphics, it got gameplay and it got the kinda casual style that makes learning easy. With that said this is still a video, it couldve been spiced up and edited to shit, also it doesnt remark about wether the places we see are all instanced or if their open world based.

It has light sabers, Star Wars music and a fiesty looking gameplay what more can you expect from a casual MMO?

It gets to the point to where I chuckle in every thread because the moronic statements never cease to make me laugh EG: it's WOW,it's a singleplayer game, etc.etc.etc. Those that are still pissing and moaning about SWG need to seek help.It's been 4 years, haven't you people grown up yet? This isn't going to be anything like any incarnation of SWG. Get over it.

I could care less if it hits WOW numbers. As long as it's fun and stays interesting I'll play it. So far it looks very promising.

There is way to much made of WoW and it's numbers. Just becuase something holds a market share it is not automatically the best or even good. I mean seriously McDonalds sells the vast majority of the dinning experience in the world and yet would you say their food is better than a Red Lobster or Olive Garden. What  about a fine local steak house? Being on top of one catagory does not make the others automatic.

WoW is the current subscription leader but I know of no one that played it as well as a few other MMOs that feels it is the BEST MMO on the market.

If ToR makes enough money to keep in business, a small profit and is a fun game to play then it is a success. I would trade a low subscription based, original and fun game over WoW any day..

The only way WoW will still be #1 in 2012 is if they are still counting old/closed accounts.  A lot of WoW players, myself included, have been done with the game for a while.  Sure we still get on and play but it isn't the same game that got us and  millions of others hooked.  We used to actually spend time preparing for a 40 man raid.  It was an epic adventure you looked forward to while dozing off at work.  Now you're lucky to get 25 people that can keep their head out of their ass long enough to not to waste your night.  WoW players will be it's own downfall.  When no one is left to carry bads through content anymore then it will be officially over for WoW. 

Sure Cataclysm will prolly be released around the same time as SW: TOR but few players care anymore.  Two years ago we cared about the swirling vortex on our map.  Now it's just a good game that has run it's course for a lot of us.  I will not be suckered in any more.  I've leveled every race and class I care to play (no elves or belves for me).  I've twinked, minmaxed, raided at the highest level, and crafted on every toon I've ever had.  I'm done and hopefully SW:TOR will be my new time sink of choice. 

SW:TOR will easily grab 1 million in their first week of release.  I'm looking forward to being a noob again in a Universe that I've wanted to explore since I was in elementry school.  Sure it won't be the origional Star Wars but the last 3 movies weren't either and we followed the franchise then just like we will for SW:TOR.  MMOs cater to our age group and spending power and hopefully SW:TOR will deliver a dynamic MMO we can hang our hat on for a few years.  I'm willing to give BioWare a few months after release to get past the growing pains that all games including WoW have had.  Once they have their first big patch we'll be able to see where SW:TOR stands.

I've gone on too long already but let the haters be haters and let the fanbois be fanbois.  Just keep in mind that all good MMOs go through a vanilla phase and SW:TOR will too regardless of how "polished" it is promised.  Stick it out and you too can be at the top of the heap when the hardcore players figure out how best to minmax their way to the top end of SW:TOR.

Originally posted by demalus

 

more like XBOX Live single player games than an MMO

Why is that? what do you know, that we don't?

Originally posted by StuBidasoe

The only way WoW will still be #1 in 2012 is if they are still counting old/closed accounts.  A lot of WoW players, myself included, have been done with the game for a while.  Sure we still get on and play but it isn't the same game that got us and  millions of others hooked.  We used to actually spend time preparing for a 40 man raid.  It was an epic adventure you looked forward to while dozing off at work.  Now you're lucky to get 25 people that can keep their head out of their ass long enough to not to waste your night.  WoW players will be it's own downfall.  When no one is left to carry bads through content anymore then it will be officially over for WoW. 

Sure Cataclysm will prolly be released around the same time as SW: TOR but few players care anymore.  Two years ago we cared about the swirling vortex on our map.  Now it's just a good game that has run it's course for a lot of us.  I will not be suckered in any more.  I've leveled every race and class I care to play (no elves or belves for me).  I've twinked, minmaxed, raided at the highest level, and crafted on every toon I've ever had.  I'm done and hopefully SW:TOR will be my new time sink of choice. 

SW:TOR will easily grab 1 million in their first week of release.  I'm looking forward to being a noob again in a Universe that I've wanted to explore since I was in elementry school.  Sure it won't be the origional Star Wars but the last 3 movies weren't either and we followed the franchise then just like we will for SW:TOR.  MMOs cater to our age group and spending power and hopefully SW:TOR will deliver a dynamic MMO we can hang our hat on for a few years.  I'm willing to give BioWare a few months after release to get past the growing pains that all games including WoW have had.  Once they have their first big patch we'll be able to see where SW:TOR stands.

I've gone on too long already but let the haters be haters and let the fanbois be fanbois.  Just keep in mind that all good MMOs go through a vanilla phase and SW:TOR will too regardless of how "polished" it is promised.  Stick it out and you too can be at the top of the heap when the hardcore players figure out how best to minmax their way to the top end of SW:TOR.

Thank you StuBidasoe KUDOS to you. You got my point on why I started this thread. ToR will be a breath of fresh air. WoW to me is like walking in a Hoards locker room.

I hope there is no #1 mmorpg, I rather there be a power struggle between a number of competitors. This way quality of MMOs will be much better, and devs will be kept on their toes.

Unless SW:ToR starts looking like an MMORPG instead of a single player game with a couple of MMO aspects tacked onto it, I do not see it being all that popular for the long haul.     A game has to have some incentive to keep you playing past the final level.     With the limited number of classes and starting areas, I do not see this game even having any real replay value.    So no...SW:ToR will not be as huge a success as WoW was for numerous reasons.

1) Graphics and animations are going to have to be much better than they are now.

2) You'd hope they would have space flight and combat.

3) Where is the MMO part of the game?   Can we see it?

4) How heavily zoned are the worlds?

5)  Are the worlds big enough to allow for free exploration?

6) What is going to keep me playing past that final level and when I reach the end of the story for my character class they keep tossing out at every interview?

7) How much real custamization wil we have when making our characters?

8)  Will my smuggler by just like every otehr smuggler spec wise and gear wise?

9) Will there always be those stupid green figures cropping up to show a smuggler where to go for cover? (Doesn't that just kill the immersion and Star Wars feel?)

10) If the game is an MMORPG - then why not tell us what makes it one?

So many questions and no answers.

Originally posted by Teala

Unless SW:ToR starts looking like an MMORPG instead of a single player game with a couple of MMO aspects tacked onto it, I do not see it being all that popular for the long haul.     A game has to have some incentive to keep you playing past the final level.     With the limited number of classes and starting areas, I do not see this game even having any real replay value.    So no...SW:ToR will not be as huge a success as WoW was for numerous reasons.

1) Graphics and animations are going to have to be much better than they are now.

2) You'd hope they would have space flight and combat.

3) Where is the MMO part of the game?   Can we see it?

4) How heavily zoned are the worlds?

5)  Are the worlds big enough to allow for free exploration?

6) What is going to keep me playing past that final level and when I reach the end of the story for my character class they keep tossing out at every interview?

7) How much real custamization wil we have when making our characters?

8)  Will my smuggler by just like every otehr smuggler spec wise and gear wise?

9) Will there always be those stupid green figures cropping up to show a smuggler where to go for cover? (Doesn't that just kill the immersion and Star Wars feel?)

10) If the game is an MMORPG - then why not tell us what makes it one?

So many questions and no answers.

Easily answered with 1 of 3. (maybe even a combination of 2)

1. They have all the answers, but are leaving everybody on the edge of there seats. And it seems to be effective. It is doing nothing but causing Hype for this game.

2. They are still collecting information of what players want in this game. Things people generally disagree on etc.

3. They are scared shitless because the game does not match current player expectation.

I highly doubt 3. But you can't mark it out either. If anything I would say 60% chance it's 2 , 39% chance it's 1 and 1% chance its 3.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

2 - Star Wars is first and foremost about the movies. Other than the force and some location names, this game has no connection to the movies.

Sorry, but this is one of the dumbest things i've ever read on these forums and that is really saying something.

I tried to say this in my earlier post.  All anyone, ANYONE has seen to date is Alpha footage.  Most of you are basing a lot of assumptions off of Alpha footage.  Go back and look at Alpha footage form any popular game on the streets today and compare Alpha to what you see now.

You will see a huge difference.  They (BW) are keeping a lot of stuff close to their vest on this one for good reason.  Marketing and hype.  It seems like everyone is talking about this game, and it is still a year out. 

It may not reach number 1 but if its sticks to a decent storyline and keeps the fans happy it doesn't have to be. Numbers don't make a great MMO. I think TOR will turn into a niche type game, similar to Champions and LOTRO now. The fans will see likely see it to the end and support it.

I wish the game the best but I likely will pass it up. A stars wars mmo doesn't interest me but its nice to know a developer is giving it a go and will hopefully give the fans plenty of content to look forward to.

Originally posted by xAlrythx

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

2 - Star Wars is first and foremost about the movies. Other than the force and some location names, this game has no connection to the movies.

 

Sorry, but this is one of the dumbest things i've ever read on these forums and that is really saying something.

I don't know. I think  those that say it will fail because it isn't SWG deserve at least honorable mention.;)

Originally posted by Teala

Unless SW:ToR starts looking like an MMORPG instead of a single player game with a couple of MMO aspects tacked onto it, I do not see it being all that popular for the long haul.     A game has to have some incentive to keep you playing past the final level.     With the limited number of classes and starting areas, I do not see this game even having any real replay value.    So no...SW:ToR will not be as huge a success as WoW was for numerous reasons.

1) Graphics and animations are going to have to be much better than they are now.

2) You'd hope they would have space flight and combat.

3) Where is the MMO part of the game?   Can we see it?

4) How heavily zoned are the worlds?

5)  Are the worlds big enough to allow for free exploration?

6) What is going to keep me playing past that final level and when I reach the end of the story for my character class they keep tossing out at every interview?

7) How much real custamization wil we have when making our characters?

8)  Will my smuggler by just like every otehr smuggler spec wise and gear wise?

9) Will there always be those stupid green figures cropping up to show a smuggler where to go for cover? (Doesn't that just kill the immersion and Star Wars feel?)

10) If the game is an MMORPG - then why not tell us what makes it one?

So many questions and no answers.

Here is the answer to all your questions.....

Remember the scene in Jedi were Luke was on the verge of turning to the dark side when the Emperor pulled a surprised on Luke when he said "Now witness the power of this fully operational Death Star...."

Well that will be the jaw dropping experience and feel when BW gets down to the climax of the pre sale of ToR like it has been mention before this is all ALPHA at it's best for now.

Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero

Most people who try the game will be expecting will be expecting characters, places, and plots from the movies.

TOR is a sideline.

 

Then those people would be morons. You'll like em. 

Pretty much. He really has no clue what he is talking about it's pretty obvious

"I bet "Star Wars" will be in much larger print than "Old Republic" and "3000 years in the past" will be in tiny print on the back."

yeah really dude?

Even Kotor was the same.

Originally posted by Teala

So no...SW:ToR will not be as huge a success as WoW was for numerous reasons.

1) Graphics and animations are going to have to be much better than they are now.

3) Where is the MMO part of the game?   Can we see it?

6) What is going to keep me playing past that final level and when I reach the end of the story for my character class they keep tossing out at every interview?

8)  Will my smuggler by just like every otehr smuggler spec wise and gear wise?

9) Will there always be those stupid green figures cropping up to show a smuggler where to go for cover? (Doesn't that just kill the immersion and Star Wars feel?)

A lot of your questions are silly to be honest and the first one pretty much kills the rest of your credability. You really think the graphics are so bad that it is worse than WoW? Have you played WoW? The graphics are not all that. The walktrhough showed a game with some pretty good graphics. I do not need photorealism to enjoy a game. The graphics they used where not bad at all.

I have seen two different demos where they show a multiplayer aspect such as the decision tree system where the party essentially votes for the response. In the walk through you see two players work together to complete the quest they are on, what part of MMO do you think they are missing?

What was your incentive in ANY MMO when it released to play once you reached the level cap?  The MMO model means they will up the level cap over time and add more content. This is NORMAL progression for an MMO.

As for your smuggler, you mean like say any class in LOTRO or WoW? This is a draw back of the class based system, in the end they are all alike.

The cover option is actually a VERY cool and innovative feature. There has to be allowances for game play to be functional.

The rest of your list was tripe so I trimmed it.

Look NO MMO is perfect at launch, they all grow and expand, some for better some for worse. The walk through looks pretty cool. They have made clear that this game will be about sotry and they have showed some real innovation and effort at making this happen.

While there is no way to yet say it will be great there is also no way to say it will be bad. They have shown some interesting stuff and generated some solid interest. I personally look forward to taking it for a test drive.

As for the WoW comparision I am so SICK of seeing it. You do know that WoW like every other Blizzard game was created by taking the best ideas from other in the genre, slapping them together, dumbing down the game a bit, spit polishing and it and repackaging it as an original work right?

WoW was not, is not nor has been a great game or anything truly orginal. What ot has been is simple, with easy gratification and good marketting to appeal to the lowest common denominators in the gaming public.

As I said before, the most numbers does not mean the best game, as WoW shows.

Originally posted by doragon86

I hope there is no #1 mmorpg, I rather there be a power struggle between a number of competitors. This way quality of MMOs will be much better, and devs will be kept on their toes.

Good post. I agree. Competition is bad for the devs, but good for us.

Certainly no WoW in there. Story-driven Mass-Effecty singleplayer somewhat mmo-based on the other hand. Oh, I can do a dungeon or whatever with a bunch of people. Yes, that's what makes it an mmo...Oh, I can chat with a bunch of people in a non-combat area/city. Very mmoic that too, heh..

Anyway, you shouldn't listen to George Lucas on anything concerning Star Wars. His vision and talent been lost for quite a while now. First, he is surrounded by 'yes' men afraid to tell him his ideas suck, just listen to the directors commentary on any Star Wars DVD for proof of that. Second, Jar Jar Binks...Nuff said!

Funny though, he said himself in an interview after the first films released back in the 80's that special effects should never get in the way of telling a story. Guess what happened with the prequel

Originally posted by slask777

Certainly no WoW in there. Story-driven Mass-Effecty singleplayer somewhat mmo-based on the other hand. Oh, I can do a dungeon or whatever with a bunch of people. Yes, that's what makes it an mmo...Oh, I can chat with a bunch of people in a non-combat area/city. Very mmoic that too, heh..

Anyway, you shouldn't listen to George Lucas on anything concerning Star Wars. His vision and talent been lost for quite a while now. First, he is surrounded by 'yes' men afraid to tell him his ideas suck, just listen to the directors commentary on any Star Wars DVD for proof of that. Second, Jar Jar Binks...Nuff said!

Jar Jar, flying R2D2, and Greedo shoots first. There's the proof.

Originally posted by slask777

Certainly no WoW in there. Story-driven Mass-Effecty singleplayer somewhat mmo-based on the other hand. Oh, I can do a dungeon or whatever with a bunch of people. Yes, that's what makes it an mmo...Oh, I can chat with a bunch of people in a non-combat area/city. Very mmoic that too, heh..

Anyway, you shouldn't listen to George Lucas on anything concerning Star Wars. His vision and talent been lost for quite a while now. First, he is surrounded by 'yes' men afraid to tell him his ideas suck, just listen to the directors commentary on any Star Wars DVD for proof of that. Second, Jar Jar Binks...Nuff said!

And this differs from most other MMOs how? 90% of the MMOs on the market today started as basically a PVE small group/solo based game. That includes BTW WoW. PvP was added last minute before release and barley touched at first or was added later.

For an MMO where the players have a REAL impact on the gaming universe, you can count them on the fingers on one hand.

ToR is bringing as much to the table as most new MMOs. In fact more as it is trying to add some stuff no other MMO has brought out. Again not saying it will be great but I am prepared to wait and see.