Originally posted by dm22

I am a WoW player from the first day. I love this game. But i see more and more a chance to the game. I always liked the idea that for the best loot you had to "work" in raids, do your best..know tactics. But then they dropped the 40 man, they made raids were you just have to blast your way trough, like Naxx..and now..emblems of conquest everywere, with a daily hc that gives triumph.

I see new level 80 doing a couple ToC normals and then do a 4 day hc farm and end up getting gear that took me a long time and patients to get in raids...now there are fully geared but real bad playing toons running around cousing wipes and confusion.

I love the history and stories of WoW. I play the game for that 2. Maybe not important to some, but i liked the storyline and kinda played like my toons were really helping the world and be part of the story.

and now the next expansion...what is this..a dragon capable to rip apart continents, and we still waiting for the lichking..a sissy lichking now compared to the next expasion boss..it made my drive to go on, to just go to the lichking raids away. I mean..whats the point now. The lichking is obious a minor threat to the world..so im just thinking "what is the point to us still being here in northrend". All the work and raids will just be for nothing...so what that you get T9 or T9.5. The first blue drop on level 83 will be better.

To me it looks like Blizzard is driving away all the "serious" players away just to keep hold of there younger or lootcrazy paying clients. I have seen hardcore raiding guilds being cut in half because ppl inside did not like how easy it became to get endgear. I can not think of another reason for all this..but i feel pretty bad about it, and i dont think i can keep playing another 6 or so months until the expansion..just doing mindless dailys and hc's and leveling up alt number 6.

Well face reality. Casual is the trend going forward. It makes ZERO sense that only a few % of their players would ever see the raids. And you do need T8.5 to go to T9 raids so expect the previous tier stuff will be easy to get.

Personally i found it a very smart move. Lots of people are happy about it. There is a way to get good gear now for those NOT in the hardcore raiding guild. If you go to wow-heroes, or just walk around with gear score, there are lots of casual people and it is good that they get SOME gear so have motivation to play.

There is nothing wrong that hardcore raiding guilds are cut in half. They are a very minority anyway. I see lots more PUG raids, casual raiding guilds ... more people having fun.

Personally I am NOT a hardcore raider and i wont spend a few days a week just to raid (probbaly not oppose to weekend raiding) and Blizzard is making the game fun for people like me.

If you want achievement, you can always go for hard modes.

Not to bash Blizzard or WoW ,I was a dedicated WoW player up too 8 months ago.Now you know why I left at that time was just plain tired of Bizzard succumbing to the the non-chalant whiners.I am sure if you check WoW overall population you will find it has drastically dropped off for the dedicated serious players that put so much time into getting the gear needed for progression.I have now found and enjoy RoM (runes of magic) which is similiar to WoW in some ways but the gear needed is generally recieved by completing quest chain lines but still needs groups to complete.Crafting is alot of fun,the game is free to play.Need I say more and best to those that still endeavor WoW and its less than satisfying as it used to be enjoyment, just my opinion.

So many "lolz" at this post. first off having "WoW and serious players" in the same sentence is funny.

Second...you claim to play WoW from the beggening, and you are complaining about the armor reset....uhmm where were you for BC and WoTLK.....thats why I quite there is just no point to level anymore.

So I play'd for 9 months, and figured this out. and you play'd for...almost 5 years? and JUST got it? lolz

 Games can be serious for competetive people! Look at baseball and football games meant for fun but there are pro levels for the best of the best maybe thats what drives the OP! I am competitive and its what drives me.

Now I would say the OP maybe picked the wrong game....top raider in WOW is = the best tri cycle rider in the world...sure he is the best in the world but at the end of the day do you say man I aspire to be him!

Dewm,how old are  you 15-18 yrs old? you have to be a young and very nieve.Don't bash people's posts it was an opinion last words of my post  it was not a flame .Have a good day.

Originally posted by Varny

I don't do it for gear... I don't it cause I enjoy the lore and I enjoy seeing things from Warcraft 3 come to life inside the game. I play because I have fun doing it and this is what I hate because in Star Wars Galaxies I did content because it was Star Wars. You wern't rewarded but other than a badge or a painting or something saying you did it. Why does everything have to be about getting something? Can't you just play because it is fun?

The problem with raiding in WoW is that it's not fun; the repetition and effort required to master a dungeon points to an end goal. And that is none other than the tier item drops.

So given the hassle getting a raid together is, who would do that at level 60 to experience BWL? Or would one form a raid just to skim through the content, without really being interested in defeating the bosses? By design, the raid dungeons in WoW were made to keep you occupied for a long, long time at cap level. You can go to Naxxramas at level 80, but in reality you're not getting anything out of the dungeon other than sight-seeing, because it is not challenging nor rewarding.

Originally posted by dm22

I am a WoW player from the first day. I love this game. But i see more and more a chance to the game. I always liked the idea that for the best loot you had to "work" in raids, do your best..know tactics. But then they dropped the 40 man, they made raids were you just have to blast your way trough, like Naxx..and now..emblems of conquest everywere, with a daily hc that gives triumph.

I see new level 80 doing a couple ToC normals and then do a 4 day hc farm and end up getting gear that took me a long time and patients to get in raids...now there are fully geared but real bad playing toons running around cousing wipes and confusion.

I love the history and stories of WoW. I play the game for that 2. Maybe not important to some, but i liked the storyline and kinda played like my toons were really helping the world and be part of the story.

and now the next expansion...what is this..a dragon capable to rip apart continents, and we still waiting for the lichking..a sissy lichking now compared to the next expasion boss..it made my drive to go on, to just go to the lichking raids away. I mean..whats the point now. The lichking is obious a minor threat to the world..so im just thinking "what is the point to us still being here in northrend". All the work and raids will just be for nothing...so what that you get T9 or T9.5. The first blue drop on level 83 will be better.

To me it looks like Blizzard is driving away all the "serious" players away just to keep hold of there younger or lootcrazy paying clients. I have seen hardcore raiding guilds being cut in half because ppl inside did not like how easy it became to get endgear. I can not think of another reason for all this..but i feel pretty bad about it, and i dont think i can keep playing another 6 or so months until the expansion..just doing mindless dailys and hc's and leveling up alt number 6.

I assume you do not know that much about the history or lore of Azeroth before WOW. Granted, I am no expert but let me throw out a few things. Deathwing is actually a form of the earth aspect, Neltharion. So he is much more than just a dragon. And yes there are bigger baddies out there than Arthas......Deathwing is one and Sargeras is the biggest baddie of all.

However, you cannot just have players run in and fight Sargeras, it is a progression. So first you are dealing with smaller bosses and then more and more powerful. However, at this moment, Arthas is the most immediate threat to Azeroth.

Honestly, if you don't like it, stop playing. Not to sound mean, but that is how I feel. Your "serious" player comment simply means "more hardcore" and yes, WOW is a casual game. Just to be clear, I will state it again:

WOW IS A CASUAL GAME!!!

If you are a hardcore raider, if you are a hardcore PVP'er, WOW is no longer for you. it is no longer your game. That does not make it a bad game, and that doesn't mean its players are younger, more immature or childish. It means Blizzard made an executive decision to release content and cater the game to an audience that is larger. They realized early on that you cannot create content hard enough or fast enough to please the hardcore gamers. I would guess 90% or more are still working on clearing Ulduar completely. So honestly, who would you spend your money on developing content for? The 10% that is hardcore of the 90% that isn't. It is an obvious business decision.

Blizzard is releasing this expansion to reinvigorate WOW and the lower areas. So many expansions, through the years, have always been about end-game, max level only. Now Blizzard has decided to re-energize the lower end game and give ALL players something new to have fun with and experience regardless if you have played WOW for 4 months or 4 years. It is an incredible idea, and I applaud Blizzard for doing it.

 op, find a job then you might understand the reason that games are more of a relaxing entertainment form than anyhting else.

Originally posted by UnDeadKiss

Here's what you have to do  Believe all the hype about a game like let's say, Mabinogi.  Download it, play it and then you get the sinking feeling of wasting your time on another crappy game.  Then maybe you can go back and play wow and realize how great a game it really is.  Right now I am trying Neo Steam, which is good so far.  You just have to take a break once in a while to know what a great company Blizz is.  Of course they are in the market to make money, we all are.  I can't wait till the next expansion just  see the new stuff.  Any (serious) gamers out there don't just try one game and stay there for ten years, your not a serious gamer if you play wow all day everyday, that's called a addict lol.  Now get up, go take a shower, make a cup of coffee and then go to the game list on this site and try something new for a bit.  There are a ton of free games to try.  You will be ok, don't worry, I know the sunshine hurts your eyes, and you will probably get the shakes from not being in Northrend, but it will be ok.  OH, AND HEY BLIZZ (KNOCKS ON SCREEN)  INSTEAD OF WOW EXPANSIONS, WHEN THE HELL YOU GONNA DO A STARCRAFT MMO FOR BOLLOCKS SAKE?!?!?!

You, sir, deserve a high five.

It's taken you this long to notice?  lol  I quit at the release of BC and never looked back.  Spending hours each night raiding for gear that will be obsolete in under a year is completely retarded, no matter which way you look at it.  I guess that's why I always thought people still playing wow after BC were a slight bit retarded.  

IMO, mmo itemization should be set to like a 4-5 year horizon so that your expansions are all about building new content, classes, crafting, pvp, and other systems to provide variety in the ways that you hunt for items.  After all, mmos are really about the hunt for items.  Some may not be as interested in itemization, but it is clear that itemization is the driving factor in mmos.  Now they just need to do itemization right. (Hint d2 on a very large scale).

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by thexrated 

Bad example. Just compare The Dark Knight to Transformers 2/G.I. Joe. A good film does not have to be made for art school grads and Mensa members, nor does it have to be dumbed down to have mass appeal. Both Transformers 2 and G.I. Joe are just special effect extravaganzas with very little "movie" in them - whereas other recent films like The Dark Knight and Iron Man provide a lot more solid experience that you can enjoy even if you are not a rapid fanboi.

"Dark Knight' and 'Iron Man' were both good movies, but they were not in the least bit challenging or inspired film-making.

You missed his point:

1. They were popular

2. They didn't suck

Originally posted by maji

Whenever a new expansion comes up, people ask:
"Why struggle for new equipment? There will be better equipment soon."

One reply is:
"Because it's fun to struggle for new equipment? And if it ain't fun, why doing it in the first place?"

/end of thread

Originally posted by Galadourn

Originally posted by rikilii

Blizzard is doing something very smart here: Every time they release a new tougher raid and up the ante on the gear levels, they make it easier for casuals to get into yesterdays toughest dungeon.

 

 

The problem is, there is not point in going in those dungeons anymore; how many players are going to bother with Blackwing Lair now? Or Naxxramas?

The point is to experience the content.  Not everybody playing WoW is gear-obsessed.  They want to play the game, have fun, experience a little challenge, and move the hell on.  That's tough to do when only 5% of players can actually access some of the content, EVER.  There's no reason to build a permanent wall between the majority of your players and the top content.

This is exactly what happened with the original Naxx, and with several of the raids in BC.  They're doing this to avoid the same thing all over again.

The ultimate irony, when a player QQs because devs put new content in the game.

TL;DR

Obviously OP didn't play durring Sunwell.

The way gear is now is exactly how it was then.  Sure you can get epics easy, they aren't good epics...

5 man heroic ToC gear isn't half as good as Ulduar 25 drops, or hard mode drops, or even the good OS25 and Maly 25 drops...

 BTW Crying about your gear becoming worth "less" is sad, its called progression, if you have played MMO's for any peroid of time you know this happens...

Here's how you play WoW and have a real life.  When an expansion comes out buy it and play it for a month.  You will then have the same or better gear than people that wasted the last 6 months raiding.  Cancel sub.  Repeat upon release of next xpac.  I think they do it just to draw back old players for a bit and to cash in on another 49.95 per customer.   They promise great things which generally end up getting nerfed/ watered down in the next few months.  Then  you realize the new awesome thing was just cut and pasted from a lev 20 area with a few different colored higher level mobs in it.   I guess their WoW toolkit only goes so far, because they make games the same way I did in their single player games.   

Originally posted by rikilii

The point is to experience the content.  Not everybody playing WoW is gear-obsessed.  They want to play the game, have fun, experience a little challenge, and move the hell on.  That's tough to do when only 5% of players can actually access some of the content, EVER.  There's no reason to build a permanent wall between the majority of your players and the top content.

This is exactly what happened with the original Naxx, and with several of the raids in BC.  They're doing this to avoid the same thing all over again.

gosh, how hard is it to understand?

Top-content can be classified as top, only when it is harder compared to all other content. If you make all content accessible to everyone, then you have blown all distinguishing factors to pieces.

Blizzard hasn't managed to find a way to add content to its existing content; they simply swap high-end dungeons with new ones (now dumbed down for accessibility's sake), rinse and repeat.

Originally posted by kujii

Here's how you play WoW and have a real life.  .......

The best way to play WoW is to not play WoW.  Then you never don't have the best gear. 

Why bother questing for gear at level 17, when you are just going to replace it at level 23. 

See how silly these kind of statements look when you take a look at it from just a slightly different angle?

Ulduar is still quite a challenge in parts (and the newest Trial raid too apparently) - it might not be as crazy hard as many vanilla and TBC raids but it has its moments. After all how many "casuals" have defeated Yogg-Saron? As well, after you've defeated a boss a few times and learnt the strategies you tend to forget the many fail attempts it took to get there.

Originally posted by Slainh

Ulduar is still quite a challenge in parts (and the newest Trial raid too apparently) - it might not be as crazy hard as many vanilla and TBC raids but it has its moments. After all how many "casuals" have defeated Yogg-Saron? As well, after you've defeated a boss a few times and learnt the strategies you tend to forget the many fail attempts it took to get there.

I don't think any boss can match the challenge Nefarious posed in vanilla WoW...there were guilds struggling for a whole year till they got him down.

Originally posted by Galadourn

Originally posted by Slainh

Ulduar is still quite a challenge in parts (and the newest Trial raid too apparently) - it might not be as crazy hard as many vanilla and TBC raids but it has its moments. After all how many "casuals" have defeated Yogg-Saron? As well, after you've defeated a boss a few times and learnt the strategies you tend to forget the many fail attempts it took to get there.

 

I don't think any boss can match the challenge Nefarious posed in vanilla WoW...there were guilds struggling for a whole year till they got him down.

There are still guilds struggling in Naxx right now.  Nefarian was hard in his day, but by no means the hardest boss. Chromaggus and Vaelastrasz were both much harder.  Vaelastrasz being one of the hardest fights in the game, because anyone could screw it up.

Currently hard modes are just as challenging if not harder. 

OP,

Try a new MMO or get some sun maybe? Its pretty simple really, not a life changing decision or anything.  

WoW truely is going downhill...I dont play it right now but I see post after post of people complaining about it.

Poor Blizzard.....

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by Galadourn

Originally posted by Slainh

Ulduar is still quite a challenge in parts (and the newest Trial raid too apparently) - it might not be as crazy hard as many vanilla and TBC raids but it has its moments. After all how many "casuals" have defeated Yogg-Saron? As well, after you've defeated a boss a few times and learnt the strategies you tend to forget the many fail attempts it took to get there.

 

I don't think any boss can match the challenge Nefarious posed in vanilla WoW...there were guilds struggling for a whole year till they got him down.

 

There are still guilds struggling in Naxx right now.  Nefarian was hard in his day, but by no means the hardest boss. Chromaggus and Vaelastrasz were both much harder.  Vaelastrasz being one of the hardest fights in the game, because anyone could screw it up.

Currently hard modes are just as challenging if not harder. 

 

Weirdly enough it took my guild longer to down Onyxia then it did for us to kill Vael.  I guess the difficulty of the fight is really dependant on how skillfull the players are.  We had some very good tanks when we started on Vael so it only took us a few treis to get familar with the fight enough to beat it.  On the other hand we were all very green when we started on Onyxia so it took forever to get all of us into a raiding mindset.

You have to take in the fact of the gear and talent trees available now vs.Ony and in reality with those said gear and talents Ony is still somewhat of a challenge if you take in the lvl cap at the time before then and now i mean 80 lvl vs, what 50-55 i can't remember exactly been a long time for me.Ony was a fun fight but took good coordination and execution and a lot of people to complete.Those were truly the good ol days of WoW.