Originally posted by neoterrar

This thread really kills me...

The only average that would be skewed by Bill Gates like outliers would be the age. So really, the stereotype of a gamer is young. This means there are many more old gamers than people think. (over 35)

Overweight is a medical statistic/fact. Most people you might consider chubby or a little on the heavy side are overweight. Overweight is not necessarily obese. Most people in industrialized countries tend to be overweight. As an example someone who is 6 foot tall should weigh less than 183 pounds. If they weigh more they are overweight.

The overweight is not an average of the peoples weights.

More likely to be depressed just means compared to a non gamer they could be as little as 5% more likely to be depressed. This does not make most gamers depressed or even a large percentage, but just a higher than norm percentage.

And of course the kicker. It's correlation, it means squat. It just means they found two sets of number that match up. They don't know why and all they can do is guess.

Actually overweight has several different definitions, the most common used by medical researchers is actually the least valid.
 

BMI = body mass index.  For the general population this is ok and a healthy individual will have a BMI of of about 18-25. An overweight person will have a BMI of over 25 and an obese person of over 30.

However body mass index does not take into account fat mass at all.  It is strictly mass in kg divided by height (in meters) squared.  Therefore someone may have a body fat percentage of say 7% (extremely low) and still be considered overweight.  Ths is the main criticism of it and is fairly common among athletes, and not accurate at with children or the elderly.

I personally am 33 years old 6'2" 187 lbs and 9% body fat using 3 different measurements (BMI = ~24), and working on being 195 in the next 3-6 months with the same percentage (BMI = 25.4 overweight according to BMI but not according to below and not visually or healthwise).  Not fat at all.

A much better definition is using body fat percentages.  For men an average is about 15-20% fat, overweight being 20-25% fat and obese being over 25% fat.  For women average is about 20-25%, overweight is about 25-50% fat, and obese is over 30%

Of course these percentages are slightly different depending on age, and quite different when looking at a populations and the techniques used to derive them and the equations used to find the percentage.

I can give virtually anyone a body fat percentage and get a particular number.  In one population this is considered obese, in another is is overweight (linebackers and dancers come to mind).  But for the general population, underwater weighing, calipers with a skilled practitioner, dexa scan are all fairly good indicators.

And unfortunately in many studies the definition of overweight is an average of peoples weights.  As the norms change so does the definition of overweight.

Depression I can't commen on much as that isn't my area.  The stats I could though.  And your right there is a correlation.  Actually I didn't even read the study to find out how strong a correlation there is.  There could be no relation at all, or it could be direct cause and effect.  Rest assured though there will be more study done on it.

Venge Sunsoar

Originally posted by Blackdragun

Just a quick google search: 

Study: 60 Percent Of Western World Plays Games - take from: http://gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=24859

•Percent of noninstitutionalized adults age 20 years and over who are overweight or obese: 66% - taken from: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/overwt.htm

Depression Hits 1 in 13 American Adults - taken from: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Healthday/story?id=7629823&page=1

Just food for thought.

correlation does not imply causation.

Originally posted by Illius

I've got 10 people off the top of my head right now that I know game with me and out of those 10 no more then 2 are overweight.  We're all in our mid 20's and most of us are at or very near our recommended body mass index.  All of us have jobs, we do other stuff besides games and none of us are depressed.  Funny how nobody asked me to participate in any survey yet I can be pigeonholled into some kind of "majority".

Well thats like like living in an all white neighbourhood and saying that the number of black people in the US is a lie. Honestly, some people here are so clueless sometimes.  Its true that you have to see exactly how the survey was conducted and look at everything instead of just blindly whipping out stats, but those who don't belive the average gamer age is somewhere around 35 are just plain ignorant.

24 (ahead of the game already)

not just overweight, but insanely obese (YES! I'm still way ahead of the curve)

Depressed!? Why I just tried to off myself last night!

By god I'm going to win! No one is ahead of me! Me ftw.

Originally posted by Eben

Pretty spot-on, if you ask me.  Biggest MMO nerd I know, 36 years old. overweight, horrible hygiene, lives with his gamer roommate and his two cats.  Doesn't have a girlfriend, doesn't date, doesn't know how to even have a casual conversation without bringing up a game.  Will wax nostalgic about SWG before it was "ruined", blather on for hours about all the toons he bought in EQ2, and how he's quitting WoW...again...for the nth time.  He's gotten so mad gaming before, that he's told me he's punched his LCD monitor off his desk, and put his fist through the drywall in his apartment.  He's been late for work because he was raiding, he's missed paying bills from buying gold.  He's had to ask his parents for money to renew his car tags...because he blew all his money on EQ2 characters.  He's pretty much the joke of our workplace, and he's too oblivious to all of it, since he's just in his own little fantasy world.  I think MMOs are the escape he has from being a complete loser in real life. 

He's the reason that playing MMOs is one of my biggest secrets, and why I won't tell many people that I do.   He's also why I barely play anymore, or if I do, it's in extremely limited amounts of time.  The idea of ending up like him...no thanks. 

This may be an extreme example but it's not far from the truth.

I have sets of friends.  I have my friends I go and do stuff with and I have my 'Xbox' friends.  

I use the xbox discriptive to women that I date/see so they are not shocked if they meet them. 

I've known them forever but all they do is eat or play video games, they don't have the money to buy characters or gold.  They are extremely overweight, their hygiene is atrocious, and they have the social skills of a sea cucumber.  They all live with their parents.  They all are pushing 30 2 of them have never met lips with a woman.   None of them do a damn bit about their appearance, let alone their health.  They make fat jokes at each other all day and set up Friday and Saturday night raid dates on WoW.

So the stereotype joke isn't outlandish at all.

I'm 34, 6'1 195lbs.  I have a sense of style, humor, and a clue about life.  I have an condo on the beach, function in life more or less, and I play these games and do fine.   Not as much as I used to though.  I'm gonna give Aion a shot.

I'd really like to see those friends take initiative and do something about their current situations.  That's where the depression comes in.  It doesn't make laugh watching it get worse year after year.

Originally posted by ZivaDomini

24 (ahead of the game already)

not just overweight, but insanely obese (YES! I'm still way ahead of the curve)

Depressed!? Why I just tried to off myself last night!

 

By god I'm going to win! No one is ahead of me! Me ftw.

 lmao

41 here, wife and 2 lovely kids, not depressed nor close to it, been playing games since i had my old Zx81 and Mac Lisa.

They didnt ask me to voite either.. guess i was too happy for such a biased voting session :p

this post makes me think of neckbeards.

The average age of Americans is 48.8

90% of Americans seek mental health assistance at some point (9 out of 10 -- CDC stats)

The average american is overweight -- they are 1' taller than in 1960 but 25 lbs heavier.

So...  woopie crap.  Gamers are what -- 13 years younger, have depression and are a bit over weight?  The only stat that is "off" from "US norms" is their age is less...

Originally posted by Illius

I've got 10 people off the top of my head right now that I know game with me and out of those 10 no more then 2 are overweight.  We're all in our mid 20's and most of us are at or very near our recommended body mass index.  All of us have jobs, we do other stuff besides games and none of us are depressed.  Funny how nobody asked me to participate in any survey yet I can be pigeonholled into some kind of "majority".

Unfortunately, 10 people is less than a fraction of millions of players.  Also if your friends were depressed they might not even now it or they would not tell you anyway.  The fact is millions of people use an escape from the world. Some of them use games and some of the those people are depressed at some point and even some of those people are over weight.  To say that all these things are linked is to say the average gamer has similar behavior. Which also means that the average gamer could be 1 of the above. But the key word in the discussion is "average" not majority.  If you don't consider your self any of those than you are not the average gamer and are in no way pigeonholed in a majority. 

In response to BMI being inaccurate, people that fall outside of its accuracy are the outliers. It's far too expensive and time consuming to do body fat accurately on a large scale. BMI covers it efficiently and with enough accuracy to be a good standard.

Oh and it asked people to rank if they played games on a scale of 0-10, 0 being never, 10 being all the time. Anyone answering above a 1 was considered a gamer.

I'm 43 with a bit of a beer gut and on prozac. I so feel at home!

Those "outliers" make up a significant portion of the population.  So much so that many researchers are now disputing using BMI as any baseline, and using BMI as a basis of research and ignoring the huge percentage of outliers is reason enough to question the validity of the study. 

Athletes, children and the elderly (over 65) together are an extremely significant portion of the population, they make a huge percentage of the population (not the majority yet, but it's getting closer) especially the elderly and this demographic is growing.

Many researchers are now usign waist:hip ratio as a baseline norm for obesity/health concerns because 1.  It is almost as easy to do as BMI so the information can be collected quickly on a large number of people  and 2.  It is more valid than BMI as it directly relates to adipose distribution and has a direct correlation to fat mass.

A WHR of .7 for women and .9 for men is considered healthy.  This is taken at the widest/largest portion of the hip and narrowest natural waist line (normally just above the belly button).  A WHR higher than that likely means that more fat is being deposited around the trunk and central cavities around the vital organs than on the extremities.  This is also the only measurement of the three (BMI, fat % and WHR) that takes into account different body shapes, that is two people with very different body shapes can have the same WHR.  You can also have the same BMI but very different WHR's.  Of course as with all things the more generalized it is the less accurate it becomes.

Unfortunately the last study that I read showed that 80% of women in the U.S. had a WHR of at least .9 and it is increasing.

So the question then becomes if most people in the U.S. are overweight and most people will have some depressive episode in their lives, and games tend to be overweight and depressed, are gamers normal then or abnormal?

We can allready say that being depressed and overweight is not healthy.

Venge Sunsoar

edit: in 2000 the elderly made up 12% of the population, by 2020 it is expected to 17%. some studies are predicting that by 2030 the retirees will make up the largest percentage of the population.  These numbers skew those results.

It's true.

But which is more pathetic, the truth or the denials?

I don't feel like reading over 180-something posts, so I just read the topic.

That survey is crap. First off, the average gamer ages somewhere around age 13 (debatable ever since Halo)-mid 30's. And in my opinion, age really doesn't matter. There are many reasons why people become overweight. Gaming may contribute, but it's not always the direct cause. I have seen fat people before, and I'll bet some of those people don't even play games.

Not sure if someone mentioned this yet since I didn't want to read every response but "552 adults in the Seattle-Tacoma area. The subjects ranged in age from 19 to 90". That was the study only 552 people in one isolated area. That is not a properly donescientific study, which has also not be duplicated which in fact means that it means nothing.

A proper study has an extremely larger sample size when dealing with a topic such as human condition, and also needs to cover people from different areas, different lifestyles, different wealth levels and even different countries.

So if you are taking a study like this as having any merit you are as bad as the terrible news agency that does not understand what a proper scientific study is.

Originally posted by RamenThief7

I don't feel like reading over 180-something posts, so I just read the topic.

That survey is crap. First off, the average gamer ages somewhere around age 13 (debatable ever since Halo)-mid 30's. And in my opinion, age really doesn't matter. There are many reasons why people become overweight. Gaming may contribute, but it's not always the direct cause. I have seen fat people before, and I'll bet some of those people don't even play games.

where are you getting your information? Why does everyone think that they can look at their current surroundings and claim the average? Seriously get some facts before just spewing soming thing out.  Most  gamers are adults that have jobs to pay for games and subscriptions. If they are over weight, that doesn't mean games made them that way. But as you tend to get older you put on weight and its harder to lose.

I think this is accurate.. I mean I would believe them over any poster here on the forums. You guys don't know... they did a study and that's their results. I'm slightly overweight and depressed (sort of) I'm not 35 yet but will be.

I think this is very true.. and if you aren't 35 yet there is still time that you would fit into this.. or even over 35 if you become overweight and depressed... this is just the average.

Anyway I believed it the moment I saw it on the yahoo main page.

Just makes one shake his head in dismay and wonder what's next.........

I for one have lost all my faith in "science" of this kind.

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Originally posted by rikilii
Organic food has the same amount of calories as non-organic food. That's terrible advice.

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Oh how little you know..

Sadly I am not in the mood to summarize the knowledge I've gained over the last 6 years of my life, though I doubt I would regardless as people would just take it with a grain of salt and call me a liar despite what me, my family and relatives go through on a daily basis. (I've actually been banned from a forum for trying to help someone cure their cancer so I've been against putting effort into my posts just from that single experience as I do not want to have my time wasted again. In fact, I had to re-type this post because IE decided to lockup when I clicked some messed up button on this site)

To be blunt: There is so much more to food than just calories.

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Originally posted by tupodawg999
Some people are blessed with slim bones.

(good genes)

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True, as there are people who stuff themselves of nothing but junk and horrible food and stay at a low weight with no exercise, but despite that, non blessed people still have a lot of control over their body structure, and even mental status.

----------

America is one of the worst countries you can live in if you value your health as a human being. I'm very pleased to see how much organic food and natural remedies have grown over the last 5 years. Maybe in 5 more it will start to overtake the normal way of life for the average unknowing American. People like me can only hope.

I think the part about people using games as a diversion from reality is true, I knew a depressed friend who played WoW nonstop because he hated his life.

Originally posted by havok527

I think the part about people using games as a diversion from reality is true, I knew a depressed friend who played WoW nonstop because he hated his life.

Yes, but how many other people have shared that same experience. Compared to the whole audience, I'm guessing a small handful. Its unfortunate the article didn't even provide a link to the actual study because I would of liked to see what the sample size used was (a size of 100 is vastly differnt than 1000 or 10,000), what video games they were playing, pre-existing conditions, personality etc. etc. Research can be misleading and I think (and hope) people will be smart enough to know which ones to take with a grain of salt. I don't doubt anything about your depressed friend and things like that are unfortunate, but the generalization the article is trying to imply is absurd. If I were to believe this, they would need to do a lot more studies including longitudinal with children that do not have any initial exposure to video games.

Sure, video gaming can be used as an escape mechanism, but how many other things are out there that are also used? Alcohol, TV, playing Sports? Having these coping mechanisms isn't all bad either, its just unfortunate that a handful might fall into an addiction.

The thread is a setup. Next question: What game has the most kids under 18 playing so I know which one to avoid from sexual predators.

I'm 6 foot, 150 lbs. and ripped as hell.  In fact, this was the first time in my life (28 yrs old) that I managed to

gain and see my six pack and have it for the summer.  I'm in the best shape of my life.  I stopped playing warhammer early this year and lost 20 pounds, went from size 34 waist to 29.  Got back into the gym, ran some, lifted some, then switched to the pool hard core style.  Also, I stopped drinking beer.- this helps a shitton fyi. alcohol fucks up your system so bad, its a really horrible depressant drug.  I wasn't fat or anything, but I was cheating myself of full potential on an atheletic fast twitch muscle frame.

anyways for the 6 years i played ffxi - I used the game as a coping mechanism to battle my alcoholism and severe depression.  It took awhile and was a bitch, but in the end I came out ok.

but here comes winter and aion is next month, and im getting nervous.  Just eat healthy, exercise a lil, sleep enough, and try to not let the mmo consume you.....  ahhhhh halp!!!

Originally posted by SoulSurfer

I'm 6 foot, 150 lbs. and ripped as hell.  In fact, this was the first time in my life (28 yrs old) that I managed to

gain and see my six pack and have it for the summer.  I'm in the best shape of my life.  I stopped playing warhammer early this year and lost 20 pounds, went from size 34 waist to 29.  Got back into the gym, ran some, lifted some, then switched to the pool hard core style.  Also, I stopped drinking beer.- this helps a shitton fyi. alcohol fucks up your system so bad, its a really horrible depressant drug.  I wasn't fat or anything, but I was cheating myself of full potential on an atheletic fast twitch muscle frame.

anyways for the 6 years i played ffxi - I used the game as a coping mechanism to battle my alcoholism and severe depression.  It took awhile and was a bitch, but in the end I came out ok.

but here comes winter and aion is next month, and im getting nervous.  Just eat healthy, exercise a lil, sleep enough, and try to not let the mmo consume you.....  ahhhhh halp!!!

You're so ripped, where do you get the time to game? You must suck

i have to say something what they seem to negleck to mention is that people who are depressed arent neciasarily depressed because of games or go to games because they are depressed, i am one of the people who would fit the bill of being a depressed gamer but i play games because they are fun this is something that should be better understood before people start drawing conclusions