This expansion has nothing on the NGE.  Lets say Blizzard came at us saying that not a year from now, but next week they were going to get rid of 60% of the classes, and you are gonna be stuck with just 4, say Warrior, Rogue, Priest, and Mage.   That would be similar to the NGE.  

What blizzard is actually doing is a good thing.  People talking about adding different classes such as Paladins to Taurens, and Mages to Dwarves and complaining about it.  I mean seriously?  THATS your big to do with this?  That will have next to NOOOO bearing on the mechanics of the game.  And the stuff with the new talents is just going to make it so people have more versatile and different characters.  The new talent system isnt getting rid of the old one afaik, it is in addition to that.  And it will be similar to Everquests AA idea.  Which just makes it so you can be a more unique player.  

Anyhow anyone who thinks this is a bad idea is probably the same people who have quit WoW 100 times and always go right back.  I for one have quit quit a few times, but not because I think the game is horrible, or I think its going in the wrong direction.  The game is marketed and designed exactly how Blizzard wants it to be.  And the new expansion is gonna do exactly what they want.  Bring back people that quit prior to for at least the intial purchase, and 2 or 3 months game time.  If nothing else it will make them a bundle of money.  

Last thing so you mindless drones and sheep can get back to worshiping Blizzard and WoW.

They made the lore, but without the players that lore would be nothing.

They may expand on the lore, but you cannot change the past nor mold it to fit in new things that are nothing more than a ploy to make a profit. Look at the big picture, stop speaking on what you do not understand.

I love WoW, but I do not love what it has become and continues to mold into. It is not WoW it is a money machine. Nothing more nothing less. The game people who loved the lore loved and played is no longer there. This is the end of WoW as the lore purists knew it.

Move on, but do not change what has been.

Saying the new expansion is like NGE shows that you are either an idiot or have no idea what NGE really did to SWG. The only way Cataclysm would be like NGE is if Blizzard went out and said: "Oh yeah, we removed levels from the game, we completely reworked all the classes, and the combat system is nothing like it was." Insecure trolls can pretend like they've played WoW since alpha or whatever, but they're just desperate for credibility because their moronic argument has no leg to stand on. This is not about sticking up for Blizzard, but about facts. The new expansion modifies certain elements of the game, but guess what--each previous expansion has done the same. People whining that the new expansion is the WoW equivalent of NGE are just sad and pathetic WoW haters in disguise...albeit a very transparent disguise.

---

Originally posted by spyder2k5
Last thing so you mindless drones and sheep can get back to worshiping Blizzard and WoW.

They made the lore, but without the players that lore would be nothing.

They may expand on the lore, but you cannot change the past nor mold it to fit in new things that are nothing more than a ploy to make a profit. Look at the big picture, stop speaking on what you do not understand.

I love WoW, but I do not love what it has become and continues to mold into. It is not WoW it is a money machine. Nothing more nothing less. The game people who loved the lore loved and played is no longer there. This is the end of WoW as the lore purists knew it.

Move on, but do not change what has been.

---

Yes indeed. This is exactly what is bothering so many people that actually care about the World of Warcraft. Not the game, I mean, the world. For whoever said we could read books, (and I'm a voracious reader, so don't get the wrong idea) it's not the same thing. Reading someone else's story and participating in it are two very different things. And this lore has been developing for years, and some people have (whether it is good or not) become somewhat vested in the world and the story. When you play a game as much as people tend to play MMOs, you get vested in your characters, and in the story that you are playing a part in. Of course, I am assuming people care more about their pixel epeens, so not everyone counts. And yes, I know the vast majority of WoW players now fit into that category, which is the problem. Blizzard has changed the game so completely from when it began in order to bring in more and more people.

You have to remember, Warcraft 1, 2, and 3 were written and designed by totally different people from the ones that run Blizzard now. Those people are the ones that came up with WoW, and designed the core concepts years ago. They left during a tiff that I don't think we will ever know the root or full extent of. They made GW and Hellgate, and Red 5 Studios.

So, in essence, you have an old Blizzard and a new one. The new one is the one doing this, and the only reason they are doing this is to bring people back and keep new ones. They only want money. More money. They have the magazine now, and the card game, and the board game...Peggle. Countless commercials. It is all designed to make more money.

They really don't care now if the people that played WarIII and before play anymore, because there are not ten million of them. When you have that many players, you don't care about the loyalists from years past. So it is totally acceptable to make a few hundred thousand people hate the game and be sorrowful for it if you can keep ten million others with the carrot on a stick with no depth.

Just look at the gear from level 60 dungeons and the gear now. The difference is phenomenal. Yes, people complained about the power of the gear at the beginning, but it was nowhere like it is now. And it began, really, with the updates after release, all of which were designed by the new Blizzard.

This is why I have no hope for Diablio III or Starcraft II. Even when you have a good lattice to build on, if you are stupid, it will all fall to hell. And that is what we have been seeing with WoW since the first content update.

WOW's expansion is nothing like the NGE. I was there and I remember well what SOE did to the game and its customers. Only SOE or WOW haters would even think of equating the two. It is beyond stupid to do so.

Newsflash folks - not every "game changer" is an NGE. "NGE" has become a term, like wow-killer or class balance or carebear or hardcore, that people use to incite anger and furor in some people; terms not used to debate or discuss but to get a response from the reader in a negative manner. Just because a game changes, it isn't an NGE.

99% of the issue with the NGE is that SOE pulled the wool over the eyes of its customers and basically, in my opinion, lied to them and pulled the old bait and switch.

Blizzard is being honest and forthcoming with the info and the customer knows what is going on with the game.

Like it? Fine, buy the expansion.

Don't like it? Then don't buy the expansion.

But please, stupid threads like this are just a waste of time and offer no relevance or basis for a discussion. The OP wanted a flame war and he got what he wanted.

Let's all move on and deal with actual topics that are grounded in reality.

Originally posted by templarga 

Just because a game changes, it isn't an NGE.

QFT

Lets see what Rubinfield, the NGE developer for SOE, has to say about major Game CHANGES;

Quoted from his blog;

"The point, the f*ckup, the mistake that we made, was answering an unasked question.

Can you change an MMO drastically after it launches??

Categorically, NO.

If we were to do it again, and wanted to make those types of changes, you have to make a new game.

Relaunch with a new title.

Or shut down Galaxies and relaunch for real.

You cannot change it at runtime."  - Dan Rubinfield
 

Huh?  It seems Rubinfield believes that you just can't have a major CHANGE after launch.  It would seem that he learned from the NGE it would be best to kill the game and re-launch rather than a major patch CHANGE.

There have been MANY more CHANGES than just NGE that caused the utter disgust that the "vets" have with SWG.  CU, GCW Re-vamp @ C5, The Chapter 6 Combat Downgrade, and GU-Whatever just to name a few.  And, most of these were on TC for awhile, players knew about them, tried to tell them not to do it and they done it anyway.

Either you like the CHANGES and you'll continue to give them $, or you don't like the CHANGES and your out.  If your on the latter side, Star Trek Online and Star Wars-TOR is a comeing.

Originally posted by dunesw64

Saying the new expansion is like NGE shows that you are either an idiot or have no idea what NGE really did to SWG. The only way Cataclysm would be like NGE is if Blizzard went out and said: "Oh yeah, we removed levels from the game, we completely reworked all the classes, and the combat system is nothing like it was." Insecure trolls can pretend like they've played WoW since alpha or whatever, but they're just desperate for credibility because their moronic argument has no leg to stand on. This is not about sticking up for Blizzard, but about facts. The new expansion modifies certain elements of the game, but guess what--each previous expansion has done the same. People whining that the new expansion is the WoW equivalent of NGE are just sad and pathetic WoW haters in disguise...albeit a very transparent disguise.

1- Oh yeah, we removed levels from the game.

There is another character progression method used in Cataclysm.  5 lvls then Path of the Titans.  Lvls not removed but changed.

2. we completely reworked all the classes

They are completely reworking every class with a mastery sytem that gives out passive ablites.  Many of the talents in the talent tree had passive stats for certain abilties but now every ability in the game might be affected by it.  Example - crit effect all ablites equally while current talent tree gives 10% crit chance on certain ability and another ability has 40% crit chance from the talent tree.  Yes... its a total rework - like it or not.

3. and combat system is nothing like it was.

Let me remind you that path of the titans will change the combat system alot.  DPS classes might get healing abilites - while healing classes get increased tanking ability.    Balance and entire combat experience could be turned on its head.

Some ppl here think that NGE was something that SOE did in one day.  It was planned for MONTHS in advance and news about the new system was released.  I was watching the crowd reaction to the changes in WOW and alot of the ppl were shellchocked tbh...  Basic elements of the game are beeing removed and there is no way in saying it will work out for the better.  What we DO KNOW is that BLizzard will NOT be able to turn back and they WILL launch this system even if its gamebreaking.  JUST like SOE did. - THey could not go back reworking months and months of work. 

So before ppl that played NGE loose themselfs in their hysteria of "We had it the worst" then lets remind ppl with few qoutes from the panels

Hunters mana is GONE - Total new way of playing an entire class (some abilites gone)
Warlock - Totally new shard system (for better or worse?) Lets see shall we ? 

Acording to Blizzard they are removing "unnnesisery" stats...

Mp5 is GONE
Spellpower is GONE
Attack power is GONE
Defence GONE
Armor penetration is GONE
Block value is GONE

All this is replaced by basic stats like stamina (that will be increased probably 200% to scale healing correctly) int, agility, strength and spirit.

This will change the game alot.  Now the real question is - will ppl like these changes or will the go beserk when a game is simplified to its bare bones ?   NGE changes were done to give the devs better control.  Nothing more - nothing less.  Thats exactly the same that is happening here.  And there are gonna be ALOT of ppl that will not like it.  Thats a fact !

The quote would be too long so I'll just say...

It looks like you're connecting dots that aren't there, based on speculation. Wait for more proof before you go around with those crazy ideas. We can easily create a scenario just as valid as yours where Cataclysm is so good that Azeroth becomes real and we all become our characters.

Originally posted by TheStarheart

The quote would be too long so I'll just say...

It looks like you're connecting dots that aren't there, based on speculation. Wait for more proof before you go around with those crazy ideas. We can easily create a scenario just as valid as yours where Cataclysm is so good that Azeroth becomes real and we all become our characters.

I think the right scenario woud be to name another game that has succsessfully changed the basic of their game (including entire classes changed from one system to another) and come out the better.   I can't think of a published MMO that has done so drastic changes tbh.  Maybe AOC with their 1.5 system but I think there wasn't a single person that really liked the game before anyway.  

Lets ask the hunters after they loose their mana shall we ?   Or warlocks ?  Or classes that are driven by MP5 and crit talents.  Lets see how path of the Titans changes the combat shall we.  

There are huge changes coming - some will like them - some will hate them.  I have more faith in BLizzard than I do with SOE but...  I also know how devs think...  If they are creating a system that is just easy for them to work with - then the game might be going down the drain in few weeks.

Originally posted by Frobner

Originally posted by TheStarheart

The quote would be too long so I'll just say...

It looks like you're connecting dots that aren't there, based on speculation. Wait for more proof before you go around with those crazy ideas. We can easily create a scenario just as valid as yours where Cataclysm is so good that Azeroth becomes real and we all become our characters.

 

I think the right scenario woud be to name another game that has succsessfully changed the basic of their game (including entire classes changed from one system to another) and come out the better.   I can't think of a published MMO that has done so drastic changes tbh.  Maybe AOC with their 1.5 system but I think there wasn't a single person that really liked the game before anyway.  

Lets ask the hunters after they loose their mana shall we ?   Or warlocks ?  Or classes that are driven by MP5 and crit talents.  Lets see how path of the Titans changes the combat shall we.  

There are huge changes coming - some will like them - some will hate them.  I have more faith in BLizzard than I do with SOE but...  I also know how devs think...  If they are creating a system that is just easy for them to work with - then the game might be going down the drain in few weeks.

I agree, no previous game has made drastic changes and come out for the better. 

But if anyone can make it work, its Blizzard. 

Because at its core is a level/class based game with character advancement based on completing quests so that players can earn better gear.

This hasn't changed with the expansion, so I think they'll be fine.

Same game, different skin.

Originally posted by Frobner

Originally posted by TheStarheart

The quote would be too long so I'll just say...

It looks like you're connecting dots that aren't there, based on speculation. Wait for more proof before you go around with those crazy ideas. We can easily create a scenario just as valid as yours where Cataclysm is so good that Azeroth becomes real and we all become our characters.

 

I think the right scenario woud be to name another game that has succsessfully changed the basic of their game (including entire classes changed from one system to another) and come out the better.   I can't think of a published MMO that has done so drastic changes tbh.  Maybe AOC with their 1.5 system but I think there wasn't a single person that really liked the game before anyway.  

Lets ask the hunters after they loose their mana shall we ?   Or warlocks ?  Or classes that are driven by MP5 and crit talents.  Lets see how path of the Titans changes the combat shall we.  

There are huge changes coming - some will like them - some will hate them.  I have more faith in BLizzard than I do with SOE but...  I also know how devs think...  If they are creating a system that is just easy for them to work with - then the game might be going down the drain in few weeks.

 If you read the post about Cataclysm on Blizzard's page:

" * * MP5: This will be removed from items and replaced with Spirit. All healers will be given a meditation-like ability.
* * Spell Power: Spell Power is being removed from items as well. Don't panic, we'll be improving Intellect so that it provides mana and Spell Power.
* * Attack Power: We're removing Attack Power from items as well. Instead, we're allowing Agility to provide the necessary Attack Power for leather and mail wearers. Strength will provide the appropriate amount of Attack Power for plate wearers. This means leather and mail items will no longer be desirable for plate wearers.
* * Defense: The Defense statistic is also being removed from items so that players no longer have to worry about juggling around "the cap." Tanks will receive the necessary anti-crit from talents, like Survival of the Fittest.
* * Armor Penetration: This ability is too confusing and "mathy." It is being replaced with Mastery, a stat that makes you better at what you do. More on that later!
* * Haste: Will also increase the rate at which you gain energy, runes, and focus. Retribution paladins and Enhancement shaman will have a talent that allows them to take advantage of this benefit.
* * Block: Block Value is being removed. Blocking will now always mitigate a percentage of damage.
* * Stamina: Players will notice more Stamina on gear as Defense, Spell Power, Attack Power and Armor Penetration are removed."
 

A lot of the newer stats are being incorporated into previous stats because it's overcomplicated for no reason. If anything a lot of the stats are going back towards what they had in Vanilla WoW.

Who cares if hunters have focus instead of mana? I don't believe Warlocks are losing mana and can't see anywhere that is says that. They are just getting their shard system re-worked as most players found it annoying anyway.

 It wouldn't matter if a different game successfully changed their mechanics because WoW is a different game. It's good they are actually doing something with their game rather than add new island here. ditch old game content here. make lowbie zones hell because no one uses them anymore. etc, etc.

Lets see how tanks will be balanced around 2 stats.  Yes... they are loosing more than half of the stats that determine their abiltes. 

Are ppl really so naive that they think SOE didn't expect something to replace the previous way of thinking ? 

Skill based - GONE 
instead we have lvls ....

Sounds simple doesn't it ? 

I wonder - since some ppl find it ok that hunter loose mana... Why are paladins not totally redesigned with new system cause lets face it.... there is a huge pile of plate junk dropping with int - spirit stats that noone can use....   Personally - I would have started the changes there.

Originally posted by Frobner

Lets see how tanks will be balanced around 2 stats.  Yes... they are loosing more than half of the stats that determine their abiltes. 

Are ppl really so naive that they think SOE didn't expect something to replace the previous way of thinking ? 

Skill based - GONE 
instead we have lvls ....

Sounds simple doesn't it ? 

 

I wonder - since some ppl find it ok that hunter loose mana... Why are paladins not totally redesigned with new system cause lets face it.... there is a huge pile of plate junk dropping with int - spirit stats that noone can use....   Personally - I would have started the changes there.

Seems like Stam Str and Agi are still important for tanks. one...two...three. Not sure why that would matter anyway.

Originally posted by TheStarheart

Originally posted by Frobner

Lets see how tanks will be balanced around 2 stats.  Yes... they are loosing more than half of the stats that determine their abiltes. 

Are ppl really so naive that they think SOE didn't expect something to replace the previous way of thinking ? 

Skill based - GONE 
instead we have lvls ....

Sounds simple doesn't it ? 

 

I wonder - since some ppl find it ok that hunter loose mana... Why are paladins not totally redesigned with new system cause lets face it.... there is a huge pile of plate junk dropping with int - spirit stats that noone can use....   Personally - I would have started the changes there.

Seems like Stam Str and Agi are still important for tanks. one...two...three. Not sure why that would matter anyway.

Rofl- since when has agility be a stat that tanks want ?   Agility will replace ATTACK POWER   .... lol...

Maybe you didn't know but tanks WANT to be hit.... just like a goalkeeper wants to GET the ball - not miss it....

L2P WOW plz...

Originally posted by Frobner

Originally posted by TheStarheart

Originally posted by Frobner

Lets see how tanks will be balanced around 2 stats.  Yes... they are loosing more than half of the stats that determine their abiltes. 

Are ppl really so naive that they think SOE didn't expect something to replace the previous way of thinking ? 

Skill based - GONE 
instead we have lvls ....

Sounds simple doesn't it ? 

 

I wonder - since some ppl find it ok that hunter loose mana... Why are paladins not totally redesigned with new system cause lets face it.... there is a huge pile of plate junk dropping with int - spirit stats that noone can use....   Personally - I would have started the changes there.

Seems like Stam Str and Agi are still important for tanks. one...two...three. Not sure why that would matter anyway.

 

Rofl- since when has agility be a stat that tanks want ?   Agility will replace ATTACK POWER   .... lol...

Maybe you didn't know but tanks WANT to be hit.... just like a goalkeeper wants to GET the ball - not miss it....

L2P WOW plz...

Bear tank? L2STFU

Do you even know anything about the NGE? What character do you have floating around in space to this day because there was no place for him in the new SWG Universe? You've compared apples and watermelons and concluded that they are the same. The NGE was a cataclysm of galactic proportions, but the similarity to the new WoW Expansion ends there.

Originally posted by Death1942

no sorry, the effect wont be the same at all.   Also all that WoW is doing is changing the landscape, not the classes.  So no it is not like the NGE at all...infact the NGE did not change any of the games landscape so even on that front it is different to this WoW expansion.

Ehem...restus was destroyed.

Originally posted by TheStarheart

Originally posted by Frobner

Originally posted by TheStarheart

Originally posted by Frobner

Lets see how tanks will be balanced around 2 stats.  Yes... they are loosing more than half of the stats that determine their abiltes. 

Are ppl really so naive that they think SOE didn't expect something to replace the previous way of thinking ? 

Skill based - GONE 
instead we have lvls ....

Sounds simple doesn't it ? 

 

I wonder - since some ppl find it ok that hunter loose mana... Why are paladins not totally redesigned with new system cause lets face it.... there is a huge pile of plate junk dropping with int - spirit stats that noone can use....   Personally - I would have started the changes there.

Seems like Stam Str and Agi are still important for tanks. one...two...three. Not sure why that would matter anyway.

 

Rofl- since when has agility be a stat that tanks want ?   Agility will replace ATTACK POWER   .... lol...

Maybe you didn't know but tanks WANT to be hit.... just like a goalkeeper wants to GET the ball - not miss it....

L2P WOW plz...

Bear tank? L2STF

Yes - lets change the basics of entire 3 tanking classes to become "bear tanks".....

lol

Maybe you are now starting to realise how GAMECHANGING this is...

Until then - look for a shield with agility stat in WOW

Originally posted by Frobner

Originally posted by TheStarheart

Originally posted by Frobner

Originally posted by TheStarheart

Originally posted by Frobner

Lets see how tanks will be balanced around 2 stats.  Yes... they are loosing more than half of the stats that determine their abiltes. 

Are ppl really so naive that they think SOE didn't expect something to replace the previous way of thinking ? 

Skill based - GONE 
instead we have lvls ....

Sounds simple doesn't it ? 

 

I wonder - since some ppl find it ok that hunter loose mana... Why are paladins not totally redesigned with new system cause lets face it.... there is a huge pile of plate junk dropping with int - spirit stats that noone can use....   Personally - I would have started the changes there.

Seems like Stam Str and Agi are still important for tanks. one...two...three. Not sure why that would matter anyway.

 

Rofl- since when has agility be a stat that tanks want ?   Agility will replace ATTACK POWER   .... lol...

Maybe you didn't know but tanks WANT to be hit.... just like a goalkeeper wants to GET the ball - not miss it....

L2P WOW plz...

Bear tank? L2STF

Yes - lets change the basics of entire 3 tanking classes to become "bear tanks".....

lol

Maybe you are now starting to realise how GAMECHANGING this is...

Until then - look for a shield with agility stat in WOW

What a fail response, bear tanks are successful and therefore will be a tank that requires more than 2 stats. Until you can come up with a better response to that, go to starbucks and complain from there.

Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by PreCU

so the new wow expansion is going to make the game like wow?

 

lol

LOL I was scratchin' my head and thinking the same thing. Are they stripping down the classes to even fewer classes? removing the talent system? deleting hunter? maybe they are making the targeting into a crappy 3rd person shooter?

I'll have to research this.

Originally posted by TheStarheart

Originally posted by Frobner

Originally posted by TheStarheart

Originally posted by Frobner

Originally posted by TheStarheart

Originally posted by Frobner

Lets see how tanks will be balanced around 2 stats.  Yes... they are loosing more than half of the stats that determine their abiltes. 

Are ppl really so naive that they think SOE didn't expect something to replace the previous way of thinking ? 

Skill based - GONE 
instead we have lvls ....

Sounds simple doesn't it ? 

 

I wonder - since some ppl find it ok that hunter loose mana... Why are paladins not totally redesigned with new system cause lets face it.... there is a huge pile of plate junk dropping with int - spirit stats that noone can use....   Personally - I would have started the changes there.

Seems like Stam Str and Agi are still important for tanks. one...two...three. Not sure why that would matter anyway.

 

Rofl- since when has agility be a stat that tanks want ?   Agility will replace ATTACK POWER   .... lol...

Maybe you didn't know but tanks WANT to be hit.... just like a goalkeeper wants to GET the ball - not miss it....

L2P WOW plz...

Bear tank? L2STF

Yes - lets change the basics of entire 3 tanking classes to become "bear tanks".....

lol

Maybe you are now starting to realise how GAMECHANGING this is...

Until then - look for a shield with agility stat in WOW

What a fail response, bear tanks are successful and therefore will be a tank that requires more than 2 stats. Until you can come up with a better response to that, go to starbucks and complain from there.

So you are saying that leather items will have strenght stats ?   I thought BLizzard made it clear that they didn't wanted plate to take cloth, lether or chain .. u must have missed that...

Cloth leather and chain will have agaility - plate will use strengt...

JUST LIKE IT IS NOW...  Bear tanks dont use strenght items...

again - l2p... every tank class will be balanced around 2 stats... - NOT 3

Originally posted by Frobner

So you are saying that leather items will have strenght stats ?   I thought BLizzard made it clear that they didn't wanted plate to take cloth, lether or chain .. u must have missed that...

Cloth leather and chain will have agaility - plate will use strengt...

JUST LIKE IT IS NOW...  Bear tanks dont use strenght items...

again - l2p... every tank class will be balanced around 2 stats... - NOT 3

What your wrote doesn't even make sense. I can't even respond. Thanks, it's been fun.

Blizz only adds new landscapes ect to wow with their expansions... that's it

they will never change their 'core-gameplay'

Originally posted by kingtommyboy

Blizz only adds new landscapes ect to wow with their expansions... that's it

they will never change their 'core-gameplay'

www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/248376/WoW-Cataclysm-Official-Information-Links-FAQ-Sticky-Please-Updated.html

You should probably read this.