Actually, it seems to me (someone who had a bit of fun in vanilla but left 2 months after TBC) the only thing that was at least a bit of fun before TBC is gonna be revamped to the new design.

Actually, I find it to be a bold, intelligent move. For some time, players have been craving for a less static Azeroth and Cataclysm provides that.  I'm looking forward to it.

Originally posted by rikilii

Over ten million subscribers and probably >20 million copies sold.

Yeah, they totally screwed up.  It's horrible.

You need to search on net before say something on forums, im not wow hater but to be realistic wow already lost 6.5 million subs from china etc because of Aion. And last 4.5 million people using multiple account.

My question is;  why people want to come back to play wow expansion if theres nice upcoming MMORPGs in 2010, like star wars:old republic, Final Fantasy XIV Online and Aion (just 1 month away to release) ?

Personnaly wont come back to play wow expansion, rather to try Final Fantasy XIV Online or Aion. (i hate sci-fi games so passing star wars: the old republic)

Originally posted by Ekadd

Originally posted by rikilii

Over ten million subscribers and probably >20 million copies sold.

Yeah, they totally screwed up.  It's horrible.

You need to search on net before say something on forums, im not wow hater but to be realistic wow already lost 6.5 million subs from china etc because of Aion. And last 4.5 million people using multiple account.

My question is;  why people want to come back to play wow expansion if theres nice upcoming MMORPGs in 2010, like star wars:old republic, Final Fantasy XIV Online and Aion (just 1 month away to release) ?

Personnaly wont come back wo play wow expansion, rather to try Final Fantasy XIV Online or Aion. (i hate sci-fi games so passing star wars: the old republic)

 

When did WoW lose 6.5 million because of Aion?

You need to take your own advice.

Having played WoW in the past for about a year and only quitting because after leveling 2 characters to max but having no interest in the grind for gear endgame I got extremely bored and left. This expansion may bring me back for a little while but it seems to me that the endgame will still be the same. They are doing the right thing by revamping the entire game as it shows that they care about all players and not just the high level raiders. This was EQs downfall.

As for them just using this as an excuse to "fix the game" that is just foolish. You can't fix what isn't broke. The only thing wrong with WoW from my standpoint is the extremely linear nature of it and the low replay value of leveling up from level one. This new expansion mixes that up a little and gives people like me a reason to come back and try it anew. The proof is in the playing however. This could be the single greatest expansion in MMO history or the next NGE in the making at this point as until we actually see these changes in action we just don't know. There is still a small chance that making such wide scale sweeping changes to an already proven game could backfire on Blizzard horribly.

I will definitely resub when this expansion goes live. RotLK offered absolutely 0% incentive for me to come back but this expansion seems to have me interested again. Before I say that this expansion is going to be great I will have to play it first however. We shall see.

Bren

They don't have to admit that they screwd up the old continents. This is one of the main reasons I left and didn't buy the second x-pac. But now that they are reworking basicly the whole game I might look into it again. WoW is the only MMO right now that I can think of that is actualy worth the subscription. Great polished game with a huge fanbase and constant updates. The fact that they are redoing it so that it's on the same level as the newly added areas only makes it more atractive.

Originally posted by ncryan10

Originally posted by Ekadd

Originally posted by rikilii

Over ten million subscribers and probably >20 million copies sold.

Yeah, they totally screwed up.  It's horrible.

You need to search on net before say something on forums, im not wow hater but to be realistic wow already lost 6.5 million subs from china etc because of Aion. And last 4.5 million people using multiple account.

My question is;  why people want to come back to play wow expansion if theres nice upcoming MMORPGs in 2010, like star wars:old republic, Final Fantasy XIV Online and Aion (just 1 month away to release) ?

Personnaly wont come back wo play wow expansion, rather to try Final Fantasy XIV Online or Aion. (i hate sci-fi games so passing star wars: the old republic)

 

When did WoW lose 6.5 million because of Aion?

 

You need to take your own advice.

http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/48960/Were-More-That-50-of-WoW-Subs-From-China

http://www.gamesbrief.com/2009/07/world-of-warcraft-loses-6-million-users/

http://gamerblips.dailyradar.com/story/world_of_warcraft_loses_6_million_users/

Because of Aion or not , people need to stop screaming on forums "wow has Over ten million subscribers" blabla.

Get a real life, do different things in your life instead of playing 7/24 wow. Search and get some news from forums etc , just dont come to make stupid comments  "my game is better than yours, wow has Over ten million subscribers" etc

tbc a mess...LK a bigger mess....destroying the old continent...are they mad?

Originally posted by bonobotheory

Changing the game's systems would be a way of admitting they made a mess of the game.  Changing the world is just a way of admitting that the content has become stale.

So if we are going by this logic, then the OP would be correct in saying maybe their system is a bit of a mess. Everyone here is only noticing the physical changes happening to the land. Only 1 person (I think) even noticed anything in regards to eliminating Attack Power, Spell Power and Armor Penetration, changing up Haste Rating and many more game mechanics changes along with the addition of Mastery (which is supposed to replace things like Armor Penetration) and Path of the Titans. I think this expansion will go beyond just content alone and making drastic changes to the game can make or break it.

I think this is the link that many people haven't seem to catch or have overlooked:
http://www.blizzard.com/blizzcon/recaps/class_items_prof-panel.xml

Originally posted by Ekadd

Originally posted by ncryan10

Originally posted by Ekadd

Originally posted by rikilii

Over ten million subscribers and probably >20 million copies sold.

Yeah, they totally screwed up.  It's horrible.

You need to search on net before say something on forums, im not wow hater but to be realistic wow already lost 6.5 million subs from china etc because of Aion. And last 4.5 million people using multiple account.

My question is;  why people want to come back to play wow expansion if theres nice upcoming MMORPGs in 2010, like star wars:old republic, Final Fantasy XIV Online and Aion (just 1 month away to release) ?

Personnaly wont come back wo play wow expansion, rather to try Final Fantasy XIV Online or Aion. (i hate sci-fi games so passing star wars: the old republic)

 

When did WoW lose 6.5 million because of Aion?

 

You need to take your own advice.

http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/48960/Were-More-That-50-of-WoW-Subs-From-China

http://www.gamesbrief.com/2009/07/world-of-warcraft-loses-6-million-users/

http://gamerblips.dailyradar.com/story/world_of_warcraft_loses_6_million_users/

Because of Aion or not , people need to stop screaming on forums "wow has Over ten million subscribers" blabla.

Get a real life, do different things in your life instead of playing 7/24 wow. Search and get some news from forums etc , just dont come to make stupid comments  "my game is better than yours, wow has Over ten million subscribers" etc

 

It's good that you can put up proof of what you say but in the same hand your "wow hate" is a bit suspect it is regardless of how many subs it has lost the most played game in mmo's right now by far and in it's history so far past second it isn't worth looking.  I don't play this game and haven't since right after TBC because I didn't like the direction it was heading.  But this game has had over 20 million subs or something crazy like that and as far as I know no other subscription based game has reached a million, so again ultimately to the op if they did something wrong then so has everyone else in the industry.

Originally posted by Jairoe03

Originally posted by bonobotheory

Changing the game's systems would be a way of admitting they made a mess of the game.  Changing the world is just a way of admitting that the content has become stale.

 

So if we are going by this logic, then the OP would be correct in saying maybe their system is a bit of a mess. Everyone here is only noticing the physical changes happening to the land. Only 1 person (I think) even noticed anything in regards to eliminating Attack Power, Spell Power and Armor Penetration, changing up Haste Rating and many more game mechanics changes along with the addition of Mastery (which is supposed to replace things like Armor Penetration) and Path of the Titans. I think this expansion will go beyond just content alone and making drastic changes to the game can make or break it.

I noticed all of those changes as well and is the main reason I said in my post above that this could be the single greatest expansion in MMO history or the next NGE in the making. The proof is in the playing. Anytime you make such wide sweeping changes to an already proven game there is a chance of it backfiring on you horribly. No doubt Blizzard is taking a huge gamble on this expansion as the last game to make changes this drastic was SWG. We all know how that worked out. We shall see.

Bren

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Well typing multiple times "lol" for a well known Wow hater is one thing.

But smile with a pain is more likely :)))

That expansion is so huge, you could fit 4 Aion's into it alone.

Oops.

4x Aion's landmass in the new expansion?  Can you provide a source for that?

Based on the maps, it looks to me like about 40 square miles tops.  Aion only 10 square miles?  That's laughable!

Ken

Originally posted by Brenelael
*snip*

The only thing wrong with WoW from my standpoint is the extremely linear nature of it and the low replay value of leveling up from level one.  *Snip*

I don't understand how anyone could say something like this. You can have a totally different leveling experience in WoW. Level a NE and stay in Kalimador from 1-60, level a race on Eastern kingdoms from 1-60 and thats a totally different experience. want a change? Play Horde you have zones alliance don't even touch.   1-60 leveling is anything but linear when you have at minimum four ways to level with unique experiences.

When you get to Outland you can skip around zones and totally have a different experience with your character and In Northrend we have two starting areas that play out differently for Alliance and Horde.

I don't see how anyone could say WoW's leveling lacks replay value. Eight racial starting areas and we lack replay value?

Originally posted by Remii718

Originally posted by Brenelael
*snip*

The only thing wrong with WoW from my standpoint is the extremely linear nature of it and the low replay value of leveling up from level one.  *Snip*

I don't see how anyone could say WoW's leveling lacks replay value. Eight racial starting areas and we lack replay value?  

I find it very hard to understand how you have games like EvE and AO in your top 10 while saying such a silly statement.  Let alone being such a big fan of the current WoW.  The leveling in WoW does lack replay value outside of using different classes.  Also, it is known to any good WoW player that there is a superior pattern of leveling based on the areas & quest chains you choose and an inferior one.  Since it gets very boring quick, you go superior.

WoW is quite linear till the endgame, it's been like that since inception.

Originally posted by Remii718

Originally posted by Brenelael
*snip*

The only thing wrong with WoW from my standpoint is the extremely linear nature of it and the low replay value of leveling up from level one.  *Snip*

I don't understand how anyone could say something like this. You can have a totally different leveling experience in WoW. Level a NE and stay in Kalimador from 1-60, level a race on Eastern kingdoms from 1-60 and thats a totally different experience. want a change? Play Horde you have zones alliance don't even touch.   1-60 leveling is anything but linear when you have at minimum four ways to level with unique experiences.

When you get to Outland you can skip around zones and totally have a different experience with your character and In Northrend we have two starting areas that play out differently for Alliance and Horde.

I don't see how anyone could say WoW's leveling lacks replay value. Eight racial starting areas and we lack replay value?

 

Yes and Ive done all of that but with every character of a certain area you get to a point were you're in a spot you've done before as the starting areas don't take you all the way to level 80. Once you've played a particular race to level 20-40 you've pretty much blown through whatever unique content that race has to offer. I said I've played 2 characters to max but I have a dozen or so in the 20 to 40 range. This is where I started to run into content that I had already done multiple times and lost interest in playing that character. You seem to think I'm saying that WoW is a bad game... not at all. I had an extremely fun time playing it but when I found myself doing the same content for the 3rd time even with a different race it was time to move on.

Edit: Oh and my 2 max characters(actually level 70 at the time I quit) were a NE(Alliance) and a BE(Horde) so I have seen the game from both sides. I also have characters of almost every race/class combination of lower levels spread across multiple servers as I was trying desperately to find some replay value before I quit. The problem was after getting any character to a certain level I started to run into stuff I had already done and it got old quick.

Bren

Revamping Old World content is a good idea and something that has been mentioned to Blizzard for years.

However, the game has gone too far down the MMO-theme park direction and I highly doubt that Blizzard will move against the majority of the semi-retarded players that comprise its player base.  I do not see Blizzard bringing any depth to the game considering that they have been dumbing it down for years.  Maybe I'm wrong, we will have to see.  Although the competition has gotten a lot better and surpassed WoW, so I doubt I will gain any real interest in this Xpac unless it really makes waves and get the feedback I would be looking for from good sources.

Originally posted by Hydroblunt

Revamping Old World content is a good idea and something that has been mentioned to Blizzard for years.

However, the game has gone too far down the MMO-theme park direction and I highly doubt that Blizzard will move against the majority of the semi-retarded players that comprise its player base.  I do not see Blizzard bringing any depth to the game considering that they have been dumbing it down for years.  Maybe I'm wrong, we will have to see.  Although the competition has gotten a lot better and surpassed WoW, so I doubt I will gain any real interest in this Xpac unless it really makes waves and get the feedback I would be looking for from good sources.

Could not agree more!  Going back to the existing map and making new changes to an old world is a fantastic idea both for the developers and the players.  The problem is it isn't enough to get me to go back and I did return for Lich King after a long absence and raised 2 characters to max.  The reason is just as was stated which is all the things that Blizzard has done to cater toward a certain play style that has completely taken away from what the game started as. 

I won't take it completely off the table but with Aion coming out which after beta testing I see as an improvement over WoW, and ToR, I just don't see myself going back there without some very credible feedback that vast changes have been made.

Originally posted by Ekadd

Originally posted by ncryan10

Originally posted by Ekadd

Originally posted by rikilii

Over ten million subscribers and probably >20 million copies sold.

Yeah, they totally screwed up.  It's horrible.

You need to search on net before say something on forums, im not wow hater but to be realistic wow already lost 6.5 million subs from china etc because of Aion. And last 4.5 million people using multiple account.

My question is;  why people want to come back to play wow expansion if theres nice upcoming MMORPGs in 2010, like star wars:old republic, Final Fantasy XIV Online and Aion (just 1 month away to release) ?

Personnaly wont come back wo play wow expansion, rather to try Final Fantasy XIV Online or Aion. (i hate sci-fi games so passing star wars: the old republic)

 

When did WoW lose 6.5 million because of Aion?

 

You need to take your own advice.

http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/48960/Were-More-That-50-of-WoW-Subs-From-China

http://www.gamesbrief.com/2009/07/world-of-warcraft-loses-6-million-users/

http://gamerblips.dailyradar.com/story/world_of_warcraft_loses_6_million_users/

Because of Aion or not , people need to stop screaming on forums "wow has Over ten million subscribers" blabla.

Get a real life, do different things in your life instead of playing 7/24 wow. Search and get some news from forums etc , just dont come to make stupid comments  "my game is better than yours, wow has Over ten million subscribers" etc

 

None of those sites say because of Aion so you have clarified you are an idiot.

The game has matured. As such you need to retool the older zones to make them more enticing. This happens with all mature MMOs (EQ, etc) so this is no surprise to me

Originally posted by baldrick76

from what i ve heard the proposed new expansion does nt offer much in the way of new landmasses etc but what it does do is revamp the old areas . some of it sounds interesting i ll admit but in the  back of my mind is that in some ways its blizzards way of putting thier hands up and say ok we ve screwed up so rather than put the game right in a series of patches we ll do so in the form of a paid expansion pack . the cynic in me thinks suddenly ok they are going to try and put things right  but they are going to make you pay for it . nice of them .

Hmm.  I haven't read any of the replies to your thread, but here's my take.

Huh?   Yeah, they all sat in a room and the conversation went something like this:

"Well gang, we've done screwed the pooch and we've got to do something about it."  Pardo says.  "11 million active subscribers, the most successful game in PC MMO gaming history and still going strong.  How do we fix this huge problem???" He adds.

"I know, I know!"  a low level flunkie dev raises his hand and shouts.  "Let's go revamp the old zones, add new encounters, content and instances including raids and heroic dungeons" he elaborates.   "Also, let's revamp the old school and vastly popular Shadowfang keep."

Pardo, rubbing his chin, responds "That just might do it.  After all, we REALLY screwed the pooch."  "I guess the only remaining question is... exactly what did we do wrong that led to this discussion?"  He asks quizzically.  "For the life of me I can't figure out WHAT we did wrong, but I was reading a post on MMORPG.com from Baldrick76 that said we did, so we must have!"  "Oh well, let's do it anyway."   "Customers might actually like it."   "It's about time we did something right."

They leave the developer meeting reminiscing about how lucky they are to have the insightful posts at MMORPG.com that guide them to the creation of a better, less "broken" game.

Originally posted by Remii718

Originally posted by Brenelael
*snip*

The only thing wrong with WoW from my standpoint is the extremely linear nature of it and the low replay value of leveling up from level one.  *Snip*

I don't understand how anyone could say something like this. You can have a totally different leveling experience in WoW. Level a NE and stay in Kalimador from 1-60, level a race on Eastern kingdoms from 1-60 and thats a totally different experience. want a change? Play Horde you have zones alliance don't even touch.   1-60 leveling is anything but linear when you have at minimum four ways to level with unique experiences.

When you get to Outland you can skip around zones and totally have a different experience with your character and In Northrend we have two starting areas that play out differently for Alliance and Horde.

I don't see how anyone could say WoW's leveling lacks replay value. Eight racial starting areas and we lack replay value?

 

Well, when the game was originally designed, you basically only had 2 paths to level through (which are intechangeable, but doesn't mean this provides more replay value), leveling on Kalimdor or the Eastern Kingdoms. Basically, if you leveled a Night Elf/Orc (Kalimdor) and a Human/Undead (Eastern Kingdoms) purely on their respective continents, you would of experienced a good majority of the game pre-BC. BC was set up the same way in which it split after pretty much completing Zangarmarsh into again 2 paths. WotLK created 2 starting points which converged into the middle (more likely than not, Dragonblight for most or maybe one of the 3 upper 70s-80 zones. When seen from this bigger perspective, the game has lacked much replay value for those that enjoy leveling.

In addition, how many of you leveled 1 character to max level then found yourself repeating the same paths (much likely the easier one, I know Kalimdor for Alliance is more or a less a nightmare compared to leveling in Eastern Kingdoms which at least feels much smoother in transitions).

Ultimately, I'm afraid with the level cap increasing to 85 and remodeling the current zones that they'll have to find ways of fitting some form of leveling progression (at least from 80-85) within the space of the two continents and an additional zone (just a zone not continent) which can potentially further linear the character progression within the game with potentially fewer zones available for lower and middle level ranges due to requiring to use some of the remodeled versions of the "old zones" for higher level progression.

EDIT: The racial starting zones tend to only go up to level 20 and out of the 85 levels by the time Cataclysm comes out, it appears to be a very small portion of the leveling experience. So, sure each side will have 5-6 different ways of going from level 1-20 but what path are they to follow after that (especially on Horde side you are usually dumped off at the Barrens or you naturally seem to gravitate towards it and same goes for Elwynn Forest and Westfall on Alliance side.)

Originally posted by bonobotheory

Changing the game's systems would be a way of admitting they made a mess of the game.  Changing the world is just a way of admitting that the content has become stale.

Evolution was not a mistake. By your statement and many others here it would seem we were better off as apes and not people?

Personally I like the idea, by changing the old you create more possibilities for new content. As for admitting the older content  become stale? What do you think would happen after 5 years and 2 expansions? Do sit around the house watch re-runs of 3's company all day? No because over time everything becomes stale.

 I was rather sad when I saw the new xpac videos and such, at first I thought it was just a joke...the game is just becoming so easy all you have to do is faceroll through everything,  I rather miss the old wow...I quit several months ago, and was quite happy with leaving, it was getting so bad that everytime I would log in, it would be complete fail, from the bad players who have no clue what so ever in playing their class, or just the plane morons who are so stupid you have no idea how they actually did level...

And the problem was that those morons DID level, and had no problem doing so.

Anyways, revamping the old areas will hopefully make them feel more...multiplayer lol.  They were pretty fuggin empty when I leveled to 40 not long ago.

Originally posted by Hydroblunt

Originally posted by Remii718

Originally posted by Brenelael
*snip*

The only thing wrong with WoW from my standpoint is the extremely linear nature of it and the low replay value of leveling up from level one.  *Snip*

I don't see how anyone could say WoW's leveling lacks replay value. Eight racial starting areas and we lack replay value?  

 

I find it very hard to understand how you have games like EvE and AO in your top 10 while saying such a silly statement.  Let alone being such a big fan of the current WoW.  The leveling in WoW does lack replay value outside of using different classes.  Also, it is known to any good WoW player that there is a superior pattern of leveling based on the areas & quest chains you choose and an inferior one.  Since it gets very boring quick, you go superior.

WoW is quite linear till the endgame, it's been like that since inception.

Wow is well put together and a fun game. Those games I have on my list Are a mix of themepark and sandbox. While WoW isn't as complex as alot of the games on my list it's an incredibly fun game for me.

Whether people on this forum like it or not WoWs leveling has replay vaule and quite alot. someone can level up in the game and have a different experience through out with near all thier characters. Does it give a player the freedom of a sandbox game? no way! but it's still enjoyable.

I've only been on this forum for a short time but I see how it's going on this site every old school player hates everything about WoW because with its popularity the game basically killed any chance that we would get a UO 2 or SWG 2.

Sorry if you guys all hate the current MMo genre but it's not blizzards fault every other Dev house wants a piece of the pie.

Boycott the shitty dev studios that keep copying WoW without adding any new improvements to an old system and please for the love of god stop making shit up about WoW to make youselves feel better that the mmo genre is not what you think it should be.