Originally posted by baldrick76

from what i ve heard the proposed new expansion does nt offer much in the way of new landmasses etc but what it does do is revamp the old areas . some of it sounds interesting i ll admit but in the  back of my mind is that in some ways its blizzards way of putting thier hands up and say ok we ve screwed up so rather than put the game right in a series of patches we ll do so in the form of a paid expansion pack . the cynic in me thinks suddenly ok they are going to try and put things right  but they are going to make you pay for it . nice of them .

Would they be asking their player base to pay for it if they were admitting they made a mistake?

It just means they admit that their 6-year old continent deserves some love from phasing, post-WOTK graphics and whatever else they learned. And that's a good thing because if 6 years later they weren't able to improve their starting areas so much that it would be better to completely revamp them, then I'd be really worried as to wth they'd been developing all these years.

Originally posted by baldrick76

from what i ve heard the proposed new expansion does nt offer much in the way of new landmasses etc but what it does do is revamp the old areas . some of it sounds interesting i ll admit but in the  back of my mind is that in some ways its blizzards way of putting thier hands up and say ok we ve screwed up so rather than put the game right in a series of patches we ll do so in the form of a paid expansion pack . the cynic in me thinks suddenly ok they are going to try and put things right  but they are going to make you pay for it . nice of them .

I don't get this feeling at all.It is merely a cheaper approach to designing an expansion pack,it costs less to make.If you look at how cheap Blizzard has been with the millions they have made from this game,it really makes sense for them to continue to do things cheap.

Here is a VERY small list.

Runescape,revamped textures,a F2P game does this,really makes Blizzard look cheap.

Square Enix takes their profits and builds a brand new multi platform advanced cinematic game engine.

Eq2 has revamped their code and makes original 3d graphics game look even better and plays better.

Entropia Universe,totally revamps their game,wit the Cry2 engine,it now looks VERY good,this is a VERYsmall company that does not have the millions that Blizzard does.

SIGIL a now defunct ,broke developer ,known for VG.They tried and actually did succeed to build the most advanced tech game to that date.Sure they were broke but they spent a lot of money and effort to advance gaming,they had a MUCH smaller team than Blizzard and millions less dollars to work with ,yet put out a far advanced product.

AOC....again you can argue the game,but the technology is so far advanced over anything Blizzard owns,it makes Blizzard look ancient,makes Blizzard look cheap !

LOTR again tinkering with a small bit of DX 10,this was actually added in later ,was not their from the release.Blizzard has added what to their money making project?hmm sad no?..I say sad yes !.

This small list shows how many far inferior developers have put that much more effort into their game ,not just effort but money,and they have far less resources to do it.Bad decisions?perhaps,are they giving the player base ,everything they can?well one thing for sure,they are giving back to the paying customers ,far more than Blizzard does and Blizzard SHOULD be the leader in this department,instead they are the trailer.

SO when you wonder about Blizzard's decision on this so called "new "expansion,realize they are usually the leaders of CHEAP,this follows their usual approach.Great money making decisions?you bet,does it equate to a better product for the WOW players?nope not at all.

It has taken Blizzard how many years to get to ZERO advancement in technology?..money well spent lol.

Yeah. What this means is that Blizzard is a company who is constantly trying to better their flagship game and keep it interesting. It's sad to see how many haters are out there who only feel a need to bash World of Warcraft. I am saddened I even responded to this post.

Wait..... Blizzard made a mess of a game that has 11.5 million subscribers and that gains more players than they lose?

What do you consider games with sub 500k numbers then?

Blizzard gives players what they want, sure some people get upset but those that leave get replaced easily.

This is blizzards way of doing damage control after it lost 1/2 of all healers due to the spirit regen nerf.

And I don't mean rerolled, a ton of people just flat out quit.

This might actually get me to resub for a bit.

11.5 million subs? are you kidding me. That number was from the height of wow. Blizz hasn't released any sub #s in a long time.

I wouldn't be surprised if the actual subs are now 1/2  ort 1/4 that right now.

Originally posted by Remii718

Wait..... Blizzard made a mess of a game that has 11.5 million subscribers and that gains more players than they lose?

What do you consider games with sub 500k numbers then?

Blizzard gives players what they want, sure some people get upset but those that leave get replaced easily.

 

Quality over quantity. Any day.

Originally posted by Wizardry

Originally posted by baldrick76

from what i ve heard the proposed new expansion does nt offer much in the way of new landmasses etc but what it does do is revamp the old areas . some of it sounds interesting i ll admit but in the  back of my mind is that in some ways its blizzards way of putting thier hands up and say ok we ve screwed up so rather than put the game right in a series of patches we ll do so in the form of a paid expansion pack . the cynic in me thinks suddenly ok they are going to try and put things right  but they are going to make you pay for it . nice of them .

 

I don't get this feeling at all.It is merely a cheaper approach to designing an expansion pack,it costs less to make.If you look at how cheap Blizzard has been with the millions they have made from this game,it really makes sense for them to continue to do things cheap.

Here is a VERY small list.

Runescape,revamped textures,a F2P game does this,really makes Blizzard look cheap.

Square Enix takes their profits and builds a brand new multi platform advanced cinematic game engine.

Eq2 has revamped their code and makes original 3d graphics game look even better and plays better.

Entropia Universe,totally revamps their game,wit the Cry2 engine,it now looks VERY good,this is a VERYsmall company that does not have the millions that Blizzard does.

SIGIL a now defunct ,broke developer ,known for VG.They tried and actually did succeed to build the most advanced tech game to that date.Sure they were broke but they spent a lot of money and effort to advance gaming,they had a MUCH smaller team than Blizzard and millions less dollars to work with ,yet put out a far advanced product.

AOC....again you can argue the game,but the technology is so far advanced over anything Blizzard owns,it makes Blizzard look ancient,makes Blizzard look cheap !

LOTR again tinkering with a small bit of DX 10,this was actually added in later ,was not their from the release.Blizzard has added what to their money making project?hmm sad no?..I say sad yes !.

This small list shows how many far inferior developers have put that much more effort into their game ,not just effort but money,and they have far less resources to do it.Bad decisions?perhaps,are they giving the player base ,everything they can?well one thing for sure,they are giving back to the paying customers ,far more than Blizzard does and Blizzard SHOULD be the leader in this department,instead they are the trailer.

SO when you wonder about Blizzard's decision on this so called "new "expansion,realize they are usually the leaders of CHEAP,this follows their usual approach.Great money making decisions?you bet,does it equate to a better product for the WOW players?nope not at all.

It has taken Blizzard how many years to get to ZERO advancement in technology?..money well spent lol.

 

 

They have been working on this new xpac before even wrath came out, thats a lot of years of development for a so called cheap xpac.  For me continuing the story and changing things up, adding new things, revamping old things, means a better product and more fun.   But for those who just hate blizzard constantly, they will always see anything they do as bad/inferior. 

So many think they know whats best, how a company should be doing things, advancing things, yet they don't have their own MMO/gaming company, makes me wonder why.

Originally posted by nblitz

Originally posted by Remii718

Wait..... Blizzard made a mess of a game that has 11.5 million subscribers and that gains more players than they lose?

What do you consider games with sub 500k numbers then?

Blizzard gives players what they want, sure some people get upset but those that leave get replaced easily.

 

 

Quality over quantity. Any day.

Millions of warcraft players consider it quality, but i know i know, your opinion superior over people who enjoy the game.

Originally posted by Wizardry

Originally posted by baldrick76

from what i ve heard the proposed new expansion does nt offer much in the way of new landmasses etc but what it does do is revamp the old areas . some of it sounds interesting i ll admit but in the  back of my mind is that in some ways its blizzards way of putting thier hands up and say ok we ve screwed up so rather than put the game right in a series of patches we ll do so in the form of a paid expansion pack . the cynic in me thinks suddenly ok they are going to try and put things right  but they are going to make you pay for it . nice of them .

 

I don't get this feeling at all.It is merely a cheaper approach to designing an expansion pack,it costs less to make.If you look at how cheap Blizzard has been with the millions they have made from this game,it really makes sense for them to continue to do things cheap.

Here is a VERY small list.

Runescape,revamped textures,a F2P game does this,really makes Blizzard look cheap.

Square Enix takes their profits and builds a brand new multi platform advanced cinematic game engine.

Eq2 has revamped their code and makes original 3d graphics game look even better and plays better.

Entropia Universe,totally revamps their game,wit the Cry2 engine,it now looks VERY good,this is a VERYsmall company that does not have the millions that Blizzard does.

SIGIL a now defunct ,broke developer ,known for VG.They tried and actually did succeed to build the most advanced tech game to that date.Sure they were broke but they spent a lot of money and effort to advance gaming,they had a MUCH smaller team than Blizzard and millions less dollars to work with ,yet put out a far advanced product.

AOC....again you can argue the game,but the technology is so far advanced over anything Blizzard owns,it makes Blizzard look ancient,makes Blizzard look cheap !

LOTR again tinkering with a small bit of DX 10,this was actually added in later ,was not their from the release.Blizzard has added what to their money making project?hmm sad no?..I say sad yes !.

This small list shows how many far inferior developers have put that much more effort into their game ,not just effort but money,and they have far less resources to do it.Bad decisions?perhaps,are they giving the player base ,everything they can?well one thing for sure,they are giving back to the paying customers ,far more than Blizzard does and Blizzard SHOULD be the leader in this department,instead they are the trailer.

SO when you wonder about Blizzard's decision on this so called "new "expansion,realize they are usually the leaders of CHEAP,this follows their usual approach.Great money making decisions?you bet,does it equate to a better product for the WOW players?nope not at all.

It has taken Blizzard how many years to get to ZERO advancement in technology?..money well spent lol.

 

 

Some of the games you listed as examples of something awesome are games that have caused irrepairable damage to the mmo genre with their horrible releases and terrible mismanagement of their products.  The genre would be better off if they never released.  Pointing at them as if they did something right and ignoring the god aweful condition they were in is just stupid. 

Not only has blizzard advanced their game engine, but they have done it and improved their overall game play, which is the most important thing to remember.  Keep in mind they added all of this in the last several months: Phasing, land and air vehicle, mounted combat, duel specializations, regular/heroic raids, dynamic shadows, etc.  Just because they don't upgrade the graphics doesn't mean there is zero advancement in technology.  Don't be so obtuse.

Blizzard/wow is not the best at every single aspect of an mmo.  There are plenty of games that do something here or there better than wow does.   Overall though, wow is a superior product when the sum of all parts is added up.  Blizzard excels with just about everything they put into the game.  That isn't something that can be said about your list of games.

In theory blizzard has tons of money and can buy a second small army of programmers to do more with the game.  In theory that is.  I guess you can complain that you don't think they are living up to their potential if you wanted to.

At the end of the day however, blizzard is delivering more for the same $15 than any other company I can think of right now.  Maybe they would do more if other companies didn't keep screwing up and made some real competition.  I guess it is just easier to blame blizzard though. 

Originally posted by nblitz

Originally posted by Remii718

Wait..... Blizzard made a mess of a game that has 11.5 million subscribers and that gains more players than they lose?

What do you consider games with sub 500k numbers then?

Blizzard gives players what they want, sure some people get upset but those that leave get replaced easily.

 

 

Quality over quantity. Any day.

"Quality" is subjective. 11.5 million players love WoW, 60% of the MMO market love WoW. Yet a small fraction of people hate it and its not a "Quality" game. This forum is hilarious.

Funny thing is because of what they are doing with the new expansion they just gave a helluva nod to all old skool wowers and RPers.........Imagine bringing a new friend into Azeroth and saying:

"Yeah......see this area here? It all use to be a desert until Deathwing returned to wreak havoc after we fought his son Blackwing."

And even if you didn't personally fight Blackwing, you at least knew people who may have. But just having the ability to tell newer players how the land has changed from the time you ventured in Azeroth will be reason enough for me to resub. Funny thing is all my old RL pals from the guild I started are coming back in memory of a friend that died who played with us. Even though we can't meet up at a moments notice in the real world, it's nice to know we all can set aside an hour or two per week to group for guild runs, something Zarianna enjoyed very much.

Originally posted by Ramonski7

Funny thing is because of what they are doing with the new expansion they just gave a helluva nod to all old skool wowers and RPers.........Imagine bringing a new friend into Azeroth and saying:

 

"Yeah......see this area here? It all use to be a desert until Deathwing returned to wreak havoc after we fought his son Blackwing."

 

And even if you didn't personally fight Blackwing, you at least knew people who may have. But just having the ability to tell newer players how the land has changed from the time you ventured in Azeroth will be reason enough for me to resub. Funny thing is all my old RL pals from the guild I started are coming back in memory of a friend that died who played with us. Even though we can't meet up at a moments notice in the real world, it's nice to know we all can set aside an hour or two per week to group for guild runs, something Zarianna enjoyed very much.

I actually have a Hand of Rag (Legendary 2h hammer) from level 60 raids. When this revamp happens Ragnaros will be moved and the level 60 version will be gone. I get to flash my hammer and tell all the new players in my guild about the old days.

Goodtimes :)

Originally posted by Remii718

Wait..... Blizzard made a mess of a game that has 11.5 million subscribers and that gains more players than they lose?

What do you consider games with sub 500k numbers then?

Blizzard gives players what they want, sure some people get upset but those that leave get replaced easily.

 

Exactly, "some people get upset but those that leave get replaces easily."

Not to mention the 300+ goldfarming subscribers per month lol

Originally posted by Scalebane

They aren't admitting anything, they started on this new Xpac before WOTLK even came out, they new what they wanted to do to continue the story and flow of the game.

People keep trying to scream about this using old content crap, but they can't take the blinders off to see how much is really changing, but why try to convince people that don't give a shit about Warcraft anyways?

QTF

I quit WoW a while back because it got really simplistic and felt a bit lacking.  What is one of the most common problems with games as they get older? OLD CONTENT. I dare anyone to log into Everquest and go Cabilis, Butcherblock Mtns, Any part of Karana, or even parts of Velious. What do you see? nothing. do a /who and you will get 2 maybe 3 people. That isnt because EQ has less subscribers, its because people have out leveled those zones and now they arent really used. As a game ages, people move forward out of old content. This is a BRILLIANT was to revitalize the game and help stop the staleness of the old content. I am ready to buy this game when the expansion launched and make a new account. This expansion shows alot.

And for those of you who say that all this expansion is a revamp that should be put into updates, get real. With these revamps and complete reworkings of the zones, your getting your $40.00 worth. There will be plenty new  zones AND new raids. Also I like that it is only 5 levels, give more emphasis on content, instead of a level race.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that whenever I saw a WoW poster, I cringed. I have tried to convince people to quit WoW, but this reminded me why WoW is #1.

The new WoW expansion is Blizzard realizing that their fans will buy and praise anything thrown at them.

This is a somewhat trollish topic.

Only a fool thinks they're perfect.  Any decent game developer knows there's always room for improvement.

Even if it was then it's better than them denying it and telling their customers to deal with it or get lost like SOE.

Originally posted by Remii718

Originally posted by nblitz

Originally posted by Remii718

Wait..... Blizzard made a mess of a game that has 11.5 million subscribers and that gains more players than they lose?

What do you consider games with sub 500k numbers then?

Blizzard gives players what they want, sure some people get upset but those that leave get replaced easily.

 

 

Quality over quantity. Any day.

 

"Quality" is subjective. 11.5 million players love WoW, 60% of the MMO market love WoW. Yet a small fraction of people hate it and its not a "Quality" game. This forum is hilarious.

I was aiming at the "What do you consider games with sub 500k numbers then?" part. Just because a game might be small does not mean it's garbage.

Keep throwing the -11.5 MILLION players- bit around some more, please.

Originally posted by baldrick76

from what i ve heard the proposed new expansion does nt offer much in the way of new landmasses etc but what it does do is revamp the old areas . some of it sounds interesting i ll admit but in the  back of my mind is that in some ways its blizzards way of putting thier hands up and say ok we ve screwed up so rather than put the game right in a series of patches we ll do so in the form of a paid expansion pack . the cynic in me thinks suddenly ok they are going to try and put things right  but they are going to make you pay for it . nice of them .

Old areas where in much need of improvement.  Peoples have been complaining about them for a while.  When you've done them dozens of time already, the will to reroll new toons and have to go through that yet another time is enough to turn some peoples away from the idea of rerolling.  Revamping the old areas is a great ideas, peoples will reroll, it will bring new players to endgame.

 It's a very smart move from Blizzard imo. It's going to be very different, and i'm sure a lot of people that have left over the years would like to go back and have a chance to play something a bit different.

I like what i've seen so far, in fact I like the expansion a hell of a lot more than a fucking Monk.

Originally posted by nblitz

Originally posted by Remii718

Originally posted by nblitz

Originally posted by Remii718

Wait..... Blizzard made a mess of a game that has 11.5 million subscribers and that gains more players than they lose?

What do you consider games with sub 500k numbers then?

Blizzard gives players what they want, sure some people get upset but those that leave get replaced easily.

 

 

Quality over quantity. Any day.

 

"Quality" is subjective. 11.5 million players love WoW, 60% of the MMO market love WoW. Yet a small fraction of people hate it and its not a "Quality" game. This forum is hilarious.

I was aiming at the "What do you consider games with sub 500k numbers then?" part. Just because a game might be small does not mean it's garbage.

Keep throwing the -11.5 MILLION players- bit around some more, please.

 

I don't need the player sub stat to argue that WoW is clearly better than most mmos and overall delivers a better experience. You name me a game with under 500k subs that doesn't have glaring issues in some aspect of it's game?

The fact is MMOs are only as strong as their weakest feature/gameplay option. While some people may say "well wow's pvp sucks" I'll simply state while WoWs pvp may lack risk, Is what blizzard offers not polished and well done? the Battlegrounds, open pvp areas and arenas are quality. Can you say the same thing for WARs pve or Lotros pvp? 

You may say "Well those games are focused games" and I'll easily follow up with saying that's a cop out. If you don't want people to judge a games "tact on" mechanics they better be fun to play and deliver an enjoyable experience.

There's a reason WoW has the subs, Every gameplay feature they have in game is well done and polished and fun for its players.  I can't say that about any other MMO and this is why they have sub 500k numbers.

Actually, it seems to me (someone who had a bit of fun in vanilla but left 2 months after TBC) the only thing that was at least a bit of fun before TBC is gonna be revamped to the new design.

Actually, I find it to be a bold, intelligent move. For some time, players have been craving for a less static Azeroth and Cataclysm provides that.  I'm looking forward to it.

Originally posted by rikilii

Over ten million subscribers and probably >20 million copies sold.

Yeah, they totally screwed up.  It's horrible.

You need to search on net before say something on forums, im not wow hater but to be realistic wow already lost 6.5 million subs from china etc because of Aion. And last 4.5 million people using multiple account.

My question is;  why people want to come back to play wow expansion if theres nice upcoming MMORPGs in 2010, like star wars:old republic, Final Fantasy XIV Online and Aion (just 1 month away to release) ?

Personnaly wont come back to play wow expansion, rather to try Final Fantasy XIV Online or Aion. (i hate sci-fi games so passing star wars: the old republic)