...that many people are waiting MO just to play another CS arena as an online battleground?

I never really thought about it like that actually. The fact of the matter though is that a game like CS just doesn't play out the same as an MMO. Because in CS the entire purpose is to kill the bad guys, and what MMO's have going for them is that the combat comes peripherally to some primary objective. You don't expect to run into other players along the way, you just happen across them. Also, teams aren't balanced in open world PvP, whereas they would be in a game like CS. In an MMO you might run into 1 guy, you might run into 5, you might run into 40, and the number of allies you have is equally dynamic. CS is XvsX, MMO's are XvsY. On top of that, a game of CS will run for like 5-10 minutes. MMO's run indefinitely, and therefor have a greater chance at evolving. Lastly, the level of advancement, and the players ability to define their character in an MMO is far superior than in a game like CS. Whereas everyone is roughly of even power, and the degree of your abilities are rather centralized in CS, in an MMO there is a much more substantial difference between starting, and advanced characters, and a much wider degree of focus.

Originally posted by Galadourn

...that many people are waiting MO just to play another CS arena as an online battleground?

TBH,  there really isn't a lot of people waiting for that type of gameplay, but they are definitely very vocal and stubborn.   

Originally posted by thinktank001

 

TBH,  there really isn't a lot of people waiting for that type of gameplay, but they are definitely very vocal and stubborn.   

perhaps you're right, they're not many but they are very vocal...

I don't know where you got your comparison, but the type of gameplay offered by an open-world sandbox PvP game like MO is absolutely nothing like CS...

I don't even know how u got those comparisons. CS is nothing like MO and MO wont just be go out kill the "bad guy" since there isn't a specific "bad guy" to kill.

if you have to compare it to any game out there do your search for Ultima Online. they are developing a lot of their features based off this game (considering how well it has done, and is doing).

This game just got so much better now that stability is getting fixed and a new patch introduced.   The devs are starting to talk about what's coming up soon...and many important things will be IN before release.  So, where it may have had me worried before....this game is definitely looking like it will shine big time.

This thread is completely stupid and useless....it's a 1 line post bashing a game that the OP cares nothing about.  That's real nice...but you should probably find something better to do with your life than to break the Terms of service of an online forum.

I feel the same as the OP and I think some are misunderstanding. It's not that MO is anywhere near CS in terms of gameplay, it's that, for some reason, when you mention FFA PVP you attract players who tend to think that the game is just a PvP orgy.

For an example see DF.

While your post is better than the OP's 1 line wonder.....I think you are both wrong in terms of who is currently in beta.  All the people that I know in beta are looking for true Sandbox like UO.  Pvping exclusively all day is not their goal.  I get what you are saying, but I'm only speaking for those inside the current beta....there are not many people looking for a CS MMO.  As far as those outside the beta?  I dont know who you are referring to.

Edit:  And your DF example is correct.  FFA PVP game.  Not sandbox.  MO is aiming for sandbox.  Currently, it's FFA PVP though.  But thats not what we all "want".

Originally posted by skeaser

I feel the same as the OP and I think some are misunderstanding. It's not that MO is anywhere near CS in terms of gameplay, it's that, for some reason, when you mention FFA PVP you attract players who tend to think that the game is just a PvP orgy.

For an example see DF.

Basically you cannot compare DF and MO because of the fact that MO is more of an actual sandbox game, its not based around FFA PvP that is just a feature to add to realism. If they stick to their claims atleast they will have Guilds( for example Blacksmithing) player made religions, Among more that will probably come out later since its 2 am and I can't think straight atm.

Anyway DF and MO are completely different games so comparing them is a moot point.

I'm waiting to play a true sandbox MMO. 
One that allows me to be and do whatever I want.

I'm hoping that MO will be just that game.

I do believe there are a lot of people who just want MO to be another DFO though.

Originally posted by Fariic

I'm waiting to play a true sandbox MMO. 
One that allows me to be and do whatever I want.

I'm hoping that MO will be just that game.

I do believe there are a lot of people who just want MO to be another DFO though.

At least they seem to be the ones wanting a refund and out of beta already. Guess when ganking is all there is to do other then testing out game features, even the DnF failbots get fed up pretty quick since they can't bloodwall or afk macro in MO.

Actually had a fool trying to gank me with no weapon the other night. He didn't even want to take the time to find out how to get a starter weapon or clothes. Just wanted to try to gank people. Those are the fools that won't last thru beta and hopefully will head back to DnF.

Originally posted by skeaser

I feel the same as the OP and I think some are misunderstanding. It's not that MO is anywhere near CS in terms of gameplay, it's that, for some reason, when you mention FFA PVP you attract players who tend to think that the game is just a PvP orgy.

For an example see DF.

At least someone got it.

+1

I wasn't expressing any hate or personal judgment against MO; I was just voicing my concerns, namely that I read many posts of people who think Sandbox and FFA PvP means going around killing each other. And that is something MO should not turn into.

 Ewwww CS.  no people want this game to be UO

---

Originally posted by kingbuns
 Ewwww CS.  no people want this game to be UO

---

Originally posted by Abloec

Originally posted by skeaser

I feel the same as the OP and I think some are misunderstanding. It's not that MO is anywhere near CS in terms of gameplay, it's that, for some reason, when you mention FFA PVP you attract players who tend to think that the game is just a PvP orgy.

For an example see DF.

 

Basically you cannot compare DF and MO because of the fact that MO is more of an actual sandbox game, its not based around FFA PvP that is just a feature to add to realism. If they stick to their claims atleast they will have Guilds( for example Blacksmithing) player made religions, Among more that will probably come out later since its 2 am and I can't think straight atm.

 

Anyway DF and MO are completely different games so comparing them is a moot point.

I disagree/agree. Comparing DF and MO is not a 'moot point.' The games are easily compared, because well, they are alot alike: they are both sandbox games, they both have ffa pvp, and well duh their both MMORPGs. Also, i do not think that, "FFA pvp is just a feature to add to realism," it is an integral part of the game that changes the very way the game is played and how players interact with eachother, and the DEVs know that. BUT, the two games are as different as they are alike, as you have stated.

I agree with skeaser and the OP. FFA pvp games attract people that like to pvp and gank people, period. But i do not fear because MO has put things like the flagging system and town gaurds in place that will DISCOURAGE, not eliminate, straight out murder all over the place, which is what DFs reputation has been, "straight out murder". There will be order among the chaos.

Edit: Basically, it will not be like CS in gameplay, but it will attract that crowd.

Originally posted by Galadourn

...that many people are waiting MO just to play another CS arena as an online battleground?

This is a troll post if I've ever seen one.  The only things that are similar is that they are first person.  Might as well say CS is trying to be EQ without the massive world and round based combat.  See how idiotic that sounds?  Or even better.  EQ is trying to be a DOOM clone with a massive persistant world.  I could continue, but I'm sure you understand now how dumb that was.

Originally posted by Xnxax

Originally posted by Abloec

Originally posted by skeaser

I feel the same as the OP and I think some are misunderstanding. It's not that MO is anywhere near CS in terms of gameplay, it's that, for some reason, when you mention FFA PVP you attract players who tend to think that the game is just a PvP orgy.

For an example see DF.

 

Basically you cannot compare DF and MO because of the fact that MO is more of an actual sandbox game, its not based around FFA PvP that is just a feature to add to realism. If they stick to their claims atleast they will have Guilds( for example Blacksmithing) player made religions, Among more that will probably come out later since its 2 am and I can't think straight atm.

 

Anyway DF and MO are completely different games so comparing them is a moot point.

 

I disagree/agree. Comparing DF and MO is not a 'moot point.' The games are easily compared, because well, they are alot alike: they are both sandbox games, they both have ffa pvp, and well duh their both MMORPGs. Also, i do not think that, "FFA pvp is just a feature to add to realism," it is an integral part of the game that changes the very way the game is played and how players interact with eachother, and the DEVs know that. BUT, the two games are as different as they are alike, as you have stated.

I agree with skeaser and the OP. FFA pvp games attract people that like to pvp and gank people, period. But i do not fear because MO has put things like the flagging system and town gaurds in place that will DISCOURAGE, not eliminate, straight out murder all over the place, which is what DFs reputation has been, "straight out murder". There will be order among the chaos.

Edit: Basically, it will not be like CS in gameplay, but it will attract that crowd.

The problem with comparing is there a whole bunch of variables, my main thought on comparing the 2 games is DF plays to the Ganker's and PvPers because thats basically all they have in their game. MO there is a vast amount of other things you can accomplish. Basically in any game you will get the asshole gankers if it has some type of pvp even if its not FFA PvP. Also depending on the player base there will be Anti-PKs running around.

Alright since my mind is alil better since its not 2 am yes FFA PvP is and isnt a feature its a changeable variable thats why I said its a feature but because they are designing so many things around it the chances of it being changed are slim to none.

Originally posted by vaylha

Originally posted by Fariic

I'm waiting to play a true sandbox MMO. 
One that allows me to be and do whatever I want.

I'm hoping that MO will be just that game.

I do believe there are a lot of people who just want MO to be another DFO though.

 

...even the DnF failbots get fed up pretty quick since they can't bloodwall or afk macro in MO.

How are they going stop players from doing this?

Originally posted by HolaPaco

Originally posted by vaylha

Originally posted by Fariic

I'm waiting to play a true sandbox MMO. 
One that allows me to be and do whatever I want.

I'm hoping that MO will be just that game.

I do believe there are a lot of people who just want MO to be another DFO though.

 

...even the DnF failbots get fed up pretty quick since they can't bloodwall or afk macro in MO.

 

How are they going stop players from doing this?

What if your skill leveling doesn't impact your skills in the way you would expect.
 

What if your damage was primarilly determined by how well crafted your weapon is, and your use of that weapon?
What if skill increases effected things in other ways then increasing damage or damage mitigation?

I'm not saying that that's how it will work, but if you've read about what some of the skills effect then it's not a long shot.

Using a sword doesn't neccesarilly mean you get more damage out if it.  You get better understanding of the weapon.  How heavy it is, what it's made of, the amount of damage it can do, etc. etc.  Skills are supposed to work like this across the board, the better you get at something, the better your understanding and use of that skill is. 

I do expect that getting better at using a sword will effect your damage output, but I've got a feeling that it's not going to be the primary reason to level the skill.  I will say that not knowing anything about the weapon you hold becomes a huge incentive to increase the skill in that weapon.  Not knowing how much damage it's able to do, how much it weighs and such is actually a pain in the ass.  You take those sorts of things for granted in most games.  You already know what it's stats are as soon as you get it.  

What if you could only wear so much stuff.  Not just carry, but the weight of what you wear?  There would be incentive to know just how much that piece of armor weighs.  To know how much damage it will mitigate.  What if your right side was better then your left?  That kind of information could mean the dif. between winning a fight or losing one.  If your right side has better armor then the left you might know not to leave the left side exposed and try to take blow on the right instead.

That's not to say people won't macro in MO.  People will. 
The issue isn't always stopping it, but making sure that those that do aren't getting such an advantage over those that don't that it's a problem.  Bloodwalling in Darkfall gives a massive advantage to those that do it because character skill is the end all.  The higher that sword skill the more skills you get, the more damage you do, and the same goes for magic.  There's incentive to macro those skills, get them as high as possible; as fast as possible.

Also,
The skill system in MO is going to work much dif. then it does in DFO.  You have your primary skills which I believe are supposed to level rather fast, then secondary skills that will take more time.  I think that the primary skills will be the equivelant of DFO's known abilities (those skills you start with), and the secondary will be like the ones you purchase.  It could be that the primary skills are the ones that will have the most impact on  things like damage; so if you use a sword and can incrase the skill quickly without the need to macro, then increase the skills associated with the sword skill that will be more along the line of extended understanding of that primary skill, but may not have a big impact on damage.  Maybe the secondary stuff will allow you to swing faster, or use less stamina.

I'm just speculating.
Although Henrik himself has stated more then once, that I've seen, that macroing shouldn't be an issue with the way that they are doing the skill system.

Originally posted by Fariic

Originally posted by HolaPaco

Originally posted by vaylha

Originally posted by Fariic

I'm waiting to play a true sandbox MMO. 
One that allows me to be and do whatever I want.

I'm hoping that MO will be just that game.

I do believe there are a lot of people who just want MO to be another DFO though.

 

...even the DnF failbots get fed up pretty quick since they can't bloodwall or afk macro in MO.

 

How are they going stop players from doing this?

What if your skill leveling doesn't impact your skills in the way you would expect.
 

What if your damage was primarilly determined by how well crafted your weapon is, and your use of that weapon?
What if skill increases effected things in other ways then increasing damage or damage mitigation?

I'm not saying that that's how it will work, but if you've read about what some of the skills effect then it's not a long shot.

Using a sword doesn't neccesarilly mean you get more damage out if it.  You get better understanding of the weapon.  How heavy it is, what it's made of, the amount of damage it can do, etc. etc.  Skills are supposed to work like this across the board, the better you get at something, the better your understanding and use of that skill is. 

I do expect that getting better at using a sword will effect your damage output, but I've got a feeling that it's not going to be the primary reason to level the skill.  I will say that not knowing anything about the weapon you hold becomes a huge incentive to increase the skill in that weapon.  Not knowing how much damage it's able to do, how much it weighs and such is actually a pain in the ass.  You take those sorts of things for granted in most games.  You already know what it's stats are as soon as you get it.  

What if you could only wear so much stuff.  Not just carry, but the weight of what you wear?  There would be incentive to know just how much that piece of armor weighs.  To know how much damage it will mitigate.  What if your right side was better then your left?  That kind of information could mean the dif. between winning a fight or losing one.  If your right side has better armor then the left you might know not to leave the left side exposed and try to take blow on the right instead.

That's not to say people won't macro in MO.  People will. 
The issue isn't always stopping it, but making sure that those that do aren't getting such an advantage over those that don't that it's a problem.  Bloodwalling in Darkfall gives a massive advantage to those that do it because character skill is the end all.  The higher that sword skill the more skills you get, the more damage you do, and the same goes for magic.  There's incentive to macro those skills, get them as high as possible; as fast as possible.

Also,
The skill system in MO is going to work much dif. then it does in DFO.  You have your primary skills which I believe are supposed to level rather fast, then secondary skills that will take more time.  I think that the primary skills will be the equivelant of DFO's known abilities (those skills you start with), and the secondary will be like the ones you purchase.  It could be that the primary skills are the ones that will have the most impact on  things like damage; so if you use a sword and can incrase the skill quickly without the need to macro, then increase the skills associated with the sword skill that will be more along the line of extended understanding of that primary skill, but may not have a big impact on damage.  Maybe the secondary stuff will allow you to swing faster, or use less stamina.

I'm just speculating.
Although Henrik himself has stated more then once, that I've seen, that macroing shouldn't be an issue with the way that they are doing the skill system.

 

Thanks for the info.
 

Originally posted by HolaPaco

Originally posted by Fariic

Originally posted by HolaPaco

Originally posted by vaylha

Originally posted by Fariic

I'm waiting to play a true sandbox MMO. 
One that allows me to be and do whatever I want.

I'm hoping that MO will be just that game.

I do believe there are a lot of people who just want MO to be another DFO though.

 

...even the DnF failbots get fed up pretty quick since they can't bloodwall or afk macro in MO.

 

How are they going stop players from doing this?

What if your skill leveling doesn't impact your skills in the way you would expect.
 

What if your damage was primarilly determined by how well crafted your weapon is, and your use of that weapon?
What if skill increases effected things in other ways then increasing damage or damage mitigation?

I'm not saying that that's how it will work, but if you've read about what some of the skills effect then it's not a long shot.

Using a sword doesn't neccesarilly mean you get more damage out if it.  You get better understanding of the weapon.  How heavy it is, what it's made of, the amount of damage it can do, etc. etc.  Skills are supposed to work like this across the board, the better you get at something, the better your understanding and use of that skill is. 

I do expect that getting better at using a sword will effect your damage output, but I've got a feeling that it's not going to be the primary reason to level the skill.  I will say that not knowing anything about the weapon you hold becomes a huge incentive to increase the skill in that weapon.  Not knowing how much damage it's able to do, how much it weighs and such is actually a pain in the ass.  You take those sorts of things for granted in most games.  You already know what it's stats are as soon as you get it.  

What if you could only wear so much stuff.  Not just carry, but the weight of what you wear?  There would be incentive to know just how much that piece of armor weighs.  To know how much damage it will mitigate.  What if your right side was better then your left?  That kind of information could mean the dif. between winning a fight or losing one.  If your right side has better armor then the left you might know not to leave the left side exposed and try to take blow on the right instead.

That's not to say people won't macro in MO.  People will. 
The issue isn't always stopping it, but making sure that those that do aren't getting such an advantage over those that don't that it's a problem.  Bloodwalling in Darkfall gives a massive advantage to those that do it because character skill is the end all.  The higher that sword skill the more skills you get, the more damage you do, and the same goes for magic.  There's incentive to macro those skills, get them as high as possible; as fast as possible.

Also,
The skill system in MO is going to work much dif. then it does in DFO.  You have your primary skills which I believe are supposed to level rather fast, then secondary skills that will take more time.  I think that the primary skills will be the equivelant of DFO's known abilities (those skills you start with), and the secondary will be like the ones you purchase.  It could be that the primary skills are the ones that will have the most impact on  things like damage; so if you use a sword and can incrase the skill quickly without the need to macro, then increase the skills associated with the sword skill that will be more along the line of extended understanding of that primary skill, but may not have a big impact on damage.  Maybe the secondary stuff will allow you to swing faster, or use less stamina.

I'm just speculating.
Although Henrik himself has stated more then once, that I've seen, that macroing shouldn't be an issue with the way that they are doing the skill system.

 

Thanks for the info.
 

Welcome.

Just keep in mind that much of that is speculation based on how skills are supposed to work.
The means to avoid macroing could just be as simple as anti-cheat that will kick you if you're using 3rd party software, and a skill system that allows you to level realatively quickly to make macroing pointless.

Can I say that a keyboard doesn't work?
At least as far as I'm aware.
 

Originally posted by DAS1337

Originally posted by Galadourn

...that many people are waiting MO just to play another CS arena as an online battleground?

 

This is a troll post if I've ever seen one.  The only things that are similar is that they are first person.  Might as well say CS is trying to be EQ without the massive world and round based combat.  See how idiotic that sounds?  Or even better.  EQ is trying to be a DOOM clone with a massive persistant world.  I could continue, but I'm sure you understand now how dumb that was.

I think you misunderstood. The OP thinks that alot of players are reading FFA PVP with FPV and they think it is some sort of MMO counter strike. He is not saying the games are similar, he is saying alot of people will think they are similar.

He is just voicing a concern over the potential player base.

Originally posted by Galadourn

...that many people are waiting MO just to play another CS arena as an online battleground?

Think you are wrong. Many waited DF and sees its what you say. I'm happy that MO is pointing to absolutely different direction: PvP around  PvE and crafting, so its more likely to turn into PvE game than CS PvP fest.