Originally posted by jcpillars

I'm one of the people she referenced when she said that some people took offense.  I posted on her original column.

I'm not arguing that game companies obviously use attractive, buxom women in artwork to sell their games. It's Sanya's simplistic generalization that there are hordes of 18-34 year old who buy the game BECAUSE it has tits and guns. If I walk down an aisle, I'm going to stop and look at the game with the huge tits. Of course I am.

But I'm not going to buy the game because of it. And none of my gamer friends do either, and they all fit into that 18-34 year old demographic. We buy the game if it looks like it will be fun to play, not because the woman on the cover has huge tits. And although we notice the games with the biggest tits first, we will dig through the racks of games to find the one with the most interesting gameplay to our styles.

Marketers, commentators, and developers greatly exaggerate the affect on profit from having huge-titted women on the cover. Sanya is just echoing a common resentment women have about pixelated game women (or any women in media in general), and the accompanying, although false, conclusion that young men think with their dicks and not with their heads.

We like our dicks. We give our dicks visual treats whenever we can. But ultimately, we buy games with our heads.

 

+1

We're not kids anymore. Will boobs attract the roving eye? Definitely. But guess what decades of playing ultimately disappointing games does? It turns you into a hardened cynic. In fact, one of my earliest thoughts on a game that comes in a package with a chick on it is, "I wonder if this is another shit game trying desperately to squeeze a last few sales?".

Like jcpillars said, sure I'm gonna look. But my next step will be immediately to scan the box for any list of features, or how the general blurb goes. And then (since I never impulse buy anymore), I'll google it up and check out a bunch of reviews and as many forum comments as I can stomach. Nowadays, this almost invariably helps me find the main flaws of the game which people didn't enjoy. It's saved me a ton of money.

So, did the marketing people do their job? Shrug, they got my attention. Did the tits factor in inducing a sale? Definitely no. Without the tits there's no saying whether I'd miss seeing the box or not, and regardless of that I'd read up beforehand on any game before making a purchase. So basically that advertising dollar was wasted on me. I'd just as likely look up the title of a box with something else on it, e.g. since I'm also a sci-fi fan I'd certainly be intruiged enough to look up something that had a gizmo on the box art as well.

Dana was this some weak cover so you could google boobs at work?   It's ok, we have all done it before.  "research" is a vital thing if you plan to write anything.

Originally posted by Death1942

Dana was this some weak cover so you could google boobs at work?   It's ok, we have all done it before.  "research" is a vital thing if you plan to write anything.

Sanya did the googleing, but Dana might have been there oogleing saying "Yah, those will do" or " can you email that set...SITE to me?"

Originally posted by Stormwatch

Humans are hard-wired to be more interested in faces than any other imagery. That is the primary reason why commercials like to place a face (or human) somewhere on their ads.

On the other hand, I don't think that boobs make a difference. The idea to combine boobs with fantasy images seems to stem from the sword and sorcery pulp comic predecessors. As wikipedia claims Pulp magazines «were famous for their half-dressed damsels in distress».

I don't think that Nielsen (or some other marketing agency) can get proof for the boob theory. If you give men, out of context, images of women showing more or less and ask them what they prefer, well… doesn't proof that they like to see it on the box of a war-sim. So it looks like that marketing folks think: «we should put a face on the ad, and since boobs are possible in this genre, we play it safe and include them». 

It is interesting that the influence of modern times did not remove the boobs, but rather turned the damsel in distress into women warriors.

There's a long tradition of sexy fantasy art. In most cases the sex angle is partly subliminal i.e lots of flesh and / or leather straps but in the context of fighting a monster the sexual angle is pushed into the background somewhat.

There's also a long tradition of cheesecake art involving nekkid women and T&A.

I think the first kind of art is full of win for both genders from a marketing point of view. When it strays into the second i think there's a trade-off where it attracts some people more but others less. There'll be a cut-off point somewhere where it goes too far and brings in far fewer players overall.

I disagree with the video lecture linked in an earlier post. I think being able to chat at the same time is the biggest reason a disproportionate number of females prefer casual games. It's not the game it's the chatting - with a game to play in the lulls. That segment of the potential market wants social first and competitive second in my opinion, whereas mmorpgs, especially the newer ones, are competitive first and social hardly at all.

Personally i prefer momorpeggers with just a small number of geeky women but if these type of games want to attract more females then i think they need to either stop having "consta-clicking and staring at the hotbar" type combat so people have the time to talk more or a twin-track game where there's social hubs with slow mini-game type activity that allows the more social type of player to socialize a bit while the other types go off to slay giant turnips.

Also, back on topic, i'm wondering if there's a major distinction between P2P and F2P or at least between games where you buy the box and games that are downloadable. I wonder if the sexiness (or attempted sexiness) of the artwork has a direct impact on the number of downloads of the downloadable F2P games. I'm thinking it probably does. I think there'd still be a cut-off point where the art is too pornesque but that cut-off point probably higher for non-box games

Very well done artice and a fun read!  I have always been amazed at the box art work showing men is armor/leather outfits while the women are scantily dressed in next to nothingness.  Don't the women get cold like the men and need armor protection in battle?  The sexism from this type of box artwork has caused allot of potential female players to MMO's not to play the game because of the  way the female was dressed or undressed.

I think you will also find those MMO's that didn't have the female almost naked on the box cover did much better from a marketing perspective and game success, than those that showed an almost naked female.

My favorite boxart of all time includes: Sacred 1 with the sacred symbol on it, Fallout series which shows a masculine figure suited up in armor, and Wasteland which has no humans on the cover at all.

I love looking at women but I don't spend my time, or money to do so. I am heterosexual yet I've never been to a strip club. I am also 29 years old and have had several relationships in my life.

I'm not arguing for some of the impulse buyers who are male sex sells.  It's unfortunate but it won't change until our society and cultural norms shift.  It's just a fact of life, unfortunately.

I highly doubt most of these marketing campaigns made much of a difference in game sales, and I know by reading this thread that overt sexiness turns off some women, so it potentially hurts sales.  The reason it's perpetuated is probably because of the younger demographic you did not mention, the 12-17 year olds who put in false birthdays to get to rated M sites and games.

That demographic is much more likely to click on a banner ad that shows a nearly naked woman than the demographic you reported on.

Gamers as a whole are starting to encompass a larger general population than where we stood 20 years ago, when you had to dial up to the local freenet on your 1200 or 2400 baud modem and there was no World Wide Web to speak of. 

Ladies: If you want to send a message to the marketers and tell them to start including stuff for you as well, then contact the game developers and let them know what you like/dislike and how they can EARN your money.  Times are tight, I'm pretty sure most devs would be willing to increase their income if they knew they only had to make a few minor changes in their marketing strategies.

And fellas: the best way we can get out of this stereotype is to only buy games after we've researched them and vote with our wallets.  Once the marketers know that boobs aren't going to pay for their marketing campaign we'll start getting real marketing campaigns which highlight features, content, and future content development moreso than what we see already.

My 2 plat,

-Cym

The first time I saw one of those Evony ads was on Somethingawful's website, and at the time I was certain it was another one of their pisstakes.

Originally posted by Trucidation

We're not kids anymore. Will boobs attract the roving eye? Definitely. But guess what decades of playing ultimately disappointing games does? It turns you into a hardened cynic. In fact, one of my earliest thoughts on a game that comes in a package with a chick on it is, "I wonder if this is another shit game trying desperately to squeeze a last few sales?".

Like jcpillars said, sure I'm gonna look. But my next step will be immediately to scan the box for any list of features, or how the general blurb goes. And then (since I never impulse buy anymore), I'll google it up and check out a bunch of reviews and as many forum comments as I can stomach. Nowadays, this almost invariably helps me find the main flaws of the game which people didn't enjoy. It's saved me a ton of money.

So, did the marketing people do their job? Shrug, they got my attention. Did the tits factor in inducing a sale? Definitely no. Without the tits there's no saying whether I'd miss seeing the box or not, and regardless of that I'd read up beforehand on any game before making a purchase. So basically that advertising dollar was wasted on me. I'd just as likely look up the title of a box with something else on it, e.g. since I'm also a sci-fi fan I'd certainly be intruiged enough to look up something that had a gizmo on the box art as well.

Woot!

Bout time someone got it right.   Woman on the front cover aren't there to drive sales, but to just get guys to actually give the game a chance to make the sale.  I would be the richest man in the world if I earned money for every time I saw a 1/2 nude lady riding the cover on a piece of media, then read the details and put it back.

Sex only sells in the erotica industry.   However, sex does appeal everywhere else.

You have to be pretty naive to believe that the sex on the cover art or ads does not sell the games.  They would not use it if it didn't.  Maybe if does not work for you, but it does for the vast majority. 

Remember most of the posters on this site are much more knowledgeble of the genre than the average buyer.

Originally posted by Ozmodan

You have to be pretty naive to believe that the sex on the cover art or ads does not sell the games.  They would not use it if it didn't.  Maybe if does not work for you, but it does for the vast majority. 

Remember most of the posters on this site are much more knowledgeble of the genre than the average buyer.

Imagine a 14 year old who is not socially experianced as most of the folks here.  You start to see the real target of the box.

Well, sex as an advertiser basically sells the product itself....and does it quite well. I mean, what kind of great game would dare post something other than a female warrior in bikini armor on the box? As if a cover that actually depicted game content that made people want to pick up the game and head on home to play immediately exists....Pfffffft.

Well, boobies on the cover will get any heterosexual man to look at the cover one more time and that's kinda the goal. If the money where in displaying hot males scantilly clothed, we would see alot of that instead, but it isn't, therefore we have all these half-naked ladies on the cover of whatever product displaying some boobage. Not that I'm complaining mind you

I must admit though that the display of some half-naked chick on a game cover do tend to fire up a few warning signs in my head.

Oh, and +1 to Malakhon for some funny trolling

Advertising to generate traffic is one thing- whether it be to go to the site or pick up the box and boobs accomplish this. However, to say that boobs actually effect real sales of said game is absolutely silly.

Hey wow, nice boobs. I wonder if there are any more pics like this... nope... hmmm, decent gameplay- graphics are a little dated... SOE??!?! *box drops to the ground in disgust*

As a female gamer I am shocked appauled and humiliated I want to sue!  J/King.

I'll be the first to admit that interesting cover art often catches my eye enough to pick up the box and then read the back.  I like it when the art on the cover is eye catching even if it is a chick with to big boobs.  But then I'm into fantasy art etc (not naked chicks but still).    I can understand why advertisers go for whats going to make gamers especially male ones stop.  It probably does however get glossed over by females who enjoy casual games but aren't really 'gamers'. 

Still impressive box art with hot chicks kicking ass never bothers me and I dont know how anyone can try and state its not true that alot of box art isnt' targeted this way...because it is!  Anyone thats been gaming for a while knows some of the best box art in the world (not necessarily good game) has hot chicks on it!!

Originally posted by Dana

Marketing to men is a big way MMOs are sold. Sanya looks at how breasts are used by just about every game out there.

Here’s the thing. Marketing is the science of reaching as many people as possible, and hitting as many of their purchasing triggers as possible. Putting imagery on a box is not a study of individuals, or even niches. Men, as a rule, are more visually oriented. Men, as a rule, like looking at nearly naked ladies. So there may be two MMORPG readers who wouldn’t dream of buying a game because of the breasts on the box. The people whose livelihood depends on grabbing your attention (and soon thereafter, your wallet) are going to go for what they know will work fastest on the largest number of people.

So join me on this wonderful tour of game imagery, as the industry puts its breast foot forward.

Read it all here.

I agree 100% that they use half naked women to sell MMOs to men. My problem with that article is that it's presented as an anomaly, and a tactic to pull in only males.

Is the problem that womens breasts are used to target men? Or is the issue the use of the unclad or nearly unclad female form to sell merchandise?

One of my first peeks at a nude female breast came not from Playboy, or the box of any MMO but from within the pages of my mothers Vogue womens magizine. While I do not remember what the ad was for, I highly doubt it targeted men 18-35.

I have never seen a woman so bitter towards the other sex, but then again I wasn't alive for the bra burning days. I don't know if it's just that she has a troubled dating life or guys don't pay attention to her (and with such a sweet innocent personality why wouldn't they want to?) but at least this time she didn't disguise her anger towards the male gender in an article of something else so kudos to that.

Sex sells isn't a saying for the sake of it, it is truth and has been since man evolved into societies. One of the oldest trackable professions is prostitution, clearly it's not only the modern 18-25 year old age range that enjoys sexuality.

But to focus on the scantily clad women in MMOs is to try and twist the facts. It is a fantasy world, just like all the women who are sexy and wear small amounts of armor, the men have bodies like Arnold when he won the Universe title. And in case you didn't know, very few guys look like that in the real world. But then again none of the guys playing the games are bitter about the pixels having a better body then them.

It's not just guys who are targetted by sexuality. Brad Pitt, although a good actor, got his chance because of his body. That is the sole reason he was cast in Thelma and Louise. They don't try to plan ways for him to have his shirt off or be naked in every movie he does by accident. Not to mention the craze over Twilight because of the dreamy effeminate vampire boy that the women loved. The only reason this marketting is not more common yet in video games (although it is already present) is because of the size of the female gamer market. As more women get into gaming, more ads with sexy guys will be used to target them.

It is sad to deny the truth that it has nothing to do with the small age range of guys that you used without any facts to back it. It is the truth for human beings and the interest in sexuality is the reason people are here today. It's not even just humans, most other mammals spend their days thinking of the opposite sex and trying to get laid.

But who am I to point out how bitter and bad of a writer Sanya is, but they clearly use her as a means to stir up controversy which they view as a traditional way to stir up business. That means these silly writings of hers will continue on unfortunatly.

Oh, good. I knew something was missing from the comment thread.

Originally posted by Sanya

Oh, good. I knew something was missing from the comment thread.

Hadn't logged in for a few days, I wouldn't let you down.

I dont have time to read it all but I do know it works!! Men love it and we dont deny loving it. Keep the sex coming!! We will buy it. LOL

Arent you taking it to a high personal level with your post about a unknwon human beeing bitter? If you have read the authors article with right type of glases you would have laughed as I did. To bad you seems to be unable to switch your perspective and that makes a you quite narrow minded person, sadly.