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Godliest
 Protector of Cantha
Joined: 11/26/06
"There''s a time and a place for everything, and it''s called college." - Chef |
It's definitely worth the read.
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Sounds promising. The concept art for the char looks bad ass.. |
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looking forward to gw2, I disagree with devs tho having 1200 skills is what made pvp in gw fun. you could truly come up with some unique character builds. sounds like they are dumbing down the game. and also its funny how they descirbe instanced pvp as hardcore and world pvp as casual. its kind of the considered the opposite way around for most people. |
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world pvp is casual on almost every game that I've played that has it pretty much it means that zergs win in world pvp and "casual" players can excell at that instanced pvp, arena style, is where you can really shine if you know your stuff. that's what they are refering to |
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Originally posted by Consensus I don't think they're dumbing down the game at all by reducing the number of skills available. I think they're doing everyone a huge favour by removing duplicate/very similar skills and reducing the number of skills they need to ensure are balanced.
Let's face it - Guild Wars is nowhere near as balanced as it could be, and Guild Wars 2's reduction in skills could be the answer to this problem.
Lastly, it's logical that arena-based PvP is considered hardcore as opposed to world PvP. The first is structured and organised, whilst the latter is random and often imbalanced.   |
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PVE and PVP are 2 different animals, killing things in PVE in a variety of different ways with a variety of different skills you can come up with is fun, not so much in PVP where its all about winning. If anything PVP should have less skills or all the same skillbars and not supringly all the PVP events during festivals everyones got the same skillbar. Why? For "Balance" Balance isnt as fun as youd think. |
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Originally posted by bigtime102 Watching what has happened with Guild Wars over the years (I've been there since Prophecies), that statement is the opposite to what I've seen with my own eyes. As more and more skills were added to the game, more opportunities to create "exploit" builds arose, and general balance spiralled almost out of control.
Reducing the number of skills does not mean that there has to be very few skills. It simply means that ArenaNet are able to scale the power and synergy of skills accordingly. This is not Build Wars. Currently they have to monitor and scale over 1200 skills, whereas with let's say 400 skills, they can spend a lot more time with each skill and will have far more perspective of the bigger picture. Lastly - PvP is the core of Guild Wars. The developers have said it themselves...it's a CORPG. The fact that everyone has the same skill bar means that it isn't balanced. Your definition is untrue. Balance means that all the skills in the game are of approximately the same power level, but work best in different situations. That is what PvP used to be like and what I hope ArenaNet are striving for again. People shouldn't be facing each other off with the same skill bars, but alas with so many skills, when someone finds a build that works well, everyone begins using it.
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Godliest
Protector of Cantha
Joined: 11/26/06
"There''s a time and a place for everything, and it''s called college." - Chef |
Having 1200 skills in GW made the balance... horrible. It's impossible to keep a game decently balanced when you got access to that many different skills - and classes. A side effect of this is that there's essentially 100 skills worth taking, 200 that can be good in a few cases and 900 that are absolute shit. This essentially meant that you could make a lot of different combinations, but only a few of them would be worth using as the other ones would be plain inferior. This means that while there technically is more options there's in reality few because no one would logically use 99% of the combinations. By severely reducing the amount of skills to say 400 (which still is a pretty large amount (just read lydons comment and saw he had said the exact same amount, strange)) you can instead have 400 skills worth taking thus having more different combinations that would be used. Additionally reducing the amount of skills also means that the difference between beginner lacking knowledge and vets is reduced somewhat since with only good skills no matter how you combine them you can't ever make it truly bad. Sure, there will be some people with absolutely horrible builds running around, but only horrible in comparison to what can be made and not horrible by todays GW standards. Of course the beginners will still not perform as well as the vets since the vets also know how to use the skills. Personally I think this is a change to the better. We will (hopefully) not be seeing the amazing idiocy when some skills were "balanced" and we will see a much bigger build difference being played in the meta. Since most skills will be worth bringing (still hoping here) the meta will probably be changing to counter what's being currently ran, as (hoping once again) without a big difference in overpoweredness "Build Warring" will be much better than it is now when one team can still beat the other through pure imbalance. The description of hardcore as instances also probably is because the hardcore players in GW enjoy it because of the challenge of playing against the best players in GW with equal odds. I don't think it was the hardcore PvPers that asked for open world PvP either, I think it was the casual players expecting there to be some big open PvP arena. The PvPers had their challenge, but the casual players found that too challenging and just wanted something to kill some time rather than trying to outwit opposing team.
You don't understand what balance is. Balance means that there will be less reason to take the same bar because there won't be no superior bar to bring. The ease of balance is inversely proportional to the amount of skills in a game, so yes, reducing the amount of skills to all having a same bar would make it ridiculously easy to balance however it's a dumb and extreme example that's never going to happen. More likely is that there's 400 skills in the game, which will provide a huge amount of combinations, especially if you consider that PvP is all about teaming and 8 different characters who can take 8 skills each from 400 is an immense amount of different combinations. By increasing the amount of skills you will just be counterproductive and achieve exactly what you want to avoid. While it will slow down the progress at finding the best gimmicks to abuse the imbalance it won't prevent it. And after a year or two the best combinations will have been found and the meta will grow stale with everyone running the same bars. Sure, they may keep pumping expansions and increase the amount of skills but it will eventually fail, that the playerbase finds the best combinations is inevitable. Additionally the meta will lack diversity as it will change to whatever is found to be the best build at the moment essentially meaning that what you try to prevent will be in the game from the beginning. Your second comment about everyone having the same bars in PvP during events is also extreme. The reason isn't for balance, it's for the fun of it. They can't come up with an entire new skill set for snowball fighting alone so instead they take a standard bar and provide each separate class with a different skill. This is a minigame and by no means true PvP, it's just a way to allow you to enjoy a different form of Guild Wars than you usually do. And as far as I'm aware most people found them fun for the short duration they are available, and that's what they are supposed to be: a break from the usual, but not a full expansion to the game.
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Well frankly I don't think GW is that unblanced especially in PvP... it's def more balanced than most MMOs out there. Still they could reduce the number of skills by making each skill more important... I don't see a problem with that as long as there is still a wide range to choose from. Playing: Aion |
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