Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Letsinod

You won't get your money back.  I don't care what your credit card website says.  I deal with this crap with my business everyday as a business owner.  You knew what the timeframe was when you entered your information.

 

Yeah I can garuntee this is false. I bought a T.V. from an electronic outlet store, it was a display model but a price that was hard to pass up. All sales are final. No worries. I get it home and it's nice. 3 days later smoke starts comming out of the back. I took it right back to the store and asked for a refund. They told me all sales were final on display models so I asked to speak to a manager, he came out shook my hand and asked me what the problem was. I explained everything and he told me the same thing, "Sorry all sales are final on display models" I said no worries and called my CC company up right there, explained the situation and started the charge back with the manager standing right there. CC company said they would take care of it yada yada. I told the manager, I'm getting my money back and asked if he wanted the T.V. back. They took the T.V. back and yes the money was put back a few days later.

Many people won't do a charge back because they are either willing to write it off as a loss or because they don't know they can. The laws explicitly protect the consumer and are very hard on businesses. So......... no, I don't even believe you own a business after a post like that.

Your example is not necessarily true with digital products, not saying it was bought in a different country, anyway it is worth trying.

You guys are a bunch of babies who seem to be new to buying things online. You knew there was no refund, you knew what you were buying, this is just a lame attempt at making controversy where no one but a child would see it as such.

Grow up. Read things you buy. You agreed to no refund and were told point blank what you were getting.

You are all stuck on stupid.

Actually, this clause in their agreement seems totally wrong as it follows a section about things such as duplicate charges "might" be eligible for a refrund.

All reimbursement requests must be sent within a week from when the loss occurred. After that time
we will not provide reimbursement.

Since I might not notice the double charge back for up to a month later, seems like a pretty shady statement to be making.

Perhaps it was only for this pre-order period.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Fact of the matter is, you agreed to the policy when you placed your order.

Actually. I am with Mbw on this one. You pre-ordered so you could get into beta. I think this is your fault. I think if they can prove you logged in you should be stuck with the thing.

On the other hand, if Star Vault gets blacklisted by a CC co, I think it is their own fault for charging people to beta a game, it is a carrot on a stick that some people just can't help. Most large scale MMOs have large enough pre-release base to beta test their game. They should utilize them.

Originally posted by Letsinod

You won't get your money back.  I don't care what your credit card website says.  I deal with this crap with my business everyday as a business owner.  You knew what the timeframe was when you entered your information.

HAHAHAHAHA*pause for breath*HAHAHAHAHA

See, the nice thing about government is that it regulates business. Laws are in place to prevent abuses by greedy 'business owners' like yourself from abusing the people and running off with their money when no service has been provided. (Although I doubt you own anything that contributes to society, and if you do its most likely some lame Comic book store or computer repair shop, amirite?)

Oh and if he got into beta and they can prove that, he's probbably fucked.

Originally posted by Crusader13

Originally posted by Letsinod

You won't get your money back.  I don't care what your credit card website says.  I deal with this crap with my business everyday as a business owner.  You knew what the timeframe was when you entered your information.

 

HAHAHAHAHA*pause for breath*HAHAHAHAHA

See, the nice thing about government is that it regulates business. Laws are in place to prevent abuses by greedy 'business owners' like yourself from abusing the people and running off with their money when no service has been provided. (Although I doubt you own anything that contributes to society, and if you do its most likely some lame Comic book store or computer repair shop, amirite?)

Oh and if he got into beta and they can prove that, he's probbably fucked.

 

The problem with fighting the charge backs is that it would cost SV more than the product in this case is worth and the reason why companies don't fight charge backs unless it's for a large sum. Secondly it gets even more complicated with the digital downloads. Lastly the box sales, if they want even a chance to fight the charge backs on box sales they have to ship on time and deliver what was stated would be delivered. Fighting charge backs are extremely hard for companies and in SV's case with everything taking into account pretty impossible.

Originally posted by JGMIII

SV is just trying to protect themselves from players paying for the pre-order to play for free (OB) and then canceling so they don't need to actually pay for the game.

It's a bullshit trick done by the playerbase and I'm glad they are trying to stop this nonsense.

Be honest OP, You had no intentions of buying MO you just wanted the Free Beta invite right?

 

where have you been?

traditionally that is what preorders have been

potential players buy the preorder for $5 and get the "privilege" of getting into beta and/or early start and/or crappy ingame items when you finally purchase the game - if you decide not to purchase you are out your $5 bucks - - - in this case there seems to be an average of about $100 pricetag for getting into beta

SV needed money to run their beta - hence these people paid for the beta (well, alpha in this case) despite poopooing from fanbois

any "bullshit trick" was done by SV - period

Learn to research before you buy something.  Not their fault, not their problem.

Originally posted by slask777

Well Mrbloodworth, an agreement can say whatever they want it to say, it still can't ignore the law and make contradicting terms. The law is the law and no business is above it, written agreement or not.

You waved the right.

 Just going to throw this out there, from experience

This has happened to me once before when I purchased something in-store (not a game, an actual item) that gave a limit on the amount of time you have to return the item.  (30 days)  When I purchased it, it turned out to be on backorder, so I paid and waited a week to get it, when it came in and I had it back home, a few more weeks passed and one day I noticed some damage to the item that was getting progressively worse.

I contacted the company, to resolve the issue, but at that point it was past the return date. (roughly by a week) they counted the backorder as the start of my purchase.

Anyways ,long story short I asked for a refund as I dropped the item off  where I bought it... but they wouldn't give me one.  I was tired and fed up, and I just called my bank,  I didn't explain much of anything more then I did not own an item from that company andI  said I wanted to dispute the transaction and I was done.  Within less then a week the charge was removed from my account and the money was back.  No word at all from the company, as I suppose they didn't try to dispute the claim at all though they would have a hard time I would imagine now that the item was sufficiently returned to their store even if they didn't want to acknowledge it.

All in all, what happened was I bought an item that passed a refund stage...   made every attempt to get the company to right the wrong I felt they had done to me, and ultimately took it into my own hands to get my money back.

How that will transfer over in this case, I can't be TOO sure, but if my experience told me anything, its that most of the time, banks usually just refund now, and ask questions later. (literally, as sometimes they ask you to fill out a form after the fact)  If the CC company takes care of this for the OP,  it would be up to SV to try and deal with it. in the end.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by slask777

Well Mrbloodworth, an agreement can say whatever they want it to say, it still can't ignore the law and make contradicting terms. The law is the law and no business is above it, written agreement or not.

You waved the right.

So if you waved your right cause a clever salesman fooled you, you got no rights? Don't think it works that way even down in the old US of A. Here in Norway atleast, that's not the case. You are guaranteed your rights no matter what.

Originally posted by slask777

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by slask777

Well Mrbloodworth, an agreement can say whatever they want it to say, it still can't ignore the law and make contradicting terms. The law is the law and no business is above it, written agreement or not.

You waved the right.

 

So if you waved your right cause a clever salesman fooled you, you got no rights? Don't think it works that way even down in the old US of A. Here in Norway atleast, that's not the case. You are guaranteed your rights no matter what.

Hey, clever salesmen trick people in the US all the time into buying POS American cars and we don't have a right to return them  (past the 3 day limit)

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by slask777

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by slask777

Well Mrbloodworth, an agreement can say whatever they want it to say, it still can't ignore the law and make contradicting terms. The law is the law and no business is above it, written agreement or not.

You waved the right.

 

So if you waved your right cause a clever salesman fooled you, you got no rights? Don't think it works that way even down in the old US of A. Here in Norway atleast, that's not the case. You are guaranteed your rights no matter what.

 

Hey, clever salesmen trick people in the US all the time into buying POS American cars and we don't have a right to return them  (past the 3 day limit)

Sure you can return them but they depreciate in value by 10% or more as soon as the front tires leave the dealership's driveway.

Originally posted by Locklain

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by slask777

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by slask777

Well Mrbloodworth, an agreement can say whatever they want it to say, it still can't ignore the law and make contradicting terms. The law is the law and no business is above it, written agreement or not.

You waved the right.

 

So if you waved your right cause a clever salesman fooled you, you got no rights? Don't think it works that way even down in the old US of A. Here in Norway atleast, that's not the case. You are guaranteed your rights no matter what.

 

Hey, clever salesmen trick people in the US all the time into buying POS American cars and we don't have a right to return them  (past the 3 day limit)

Sure you can return them but they depreciate in value by 10% or more as soon as the front tires leave the dealership's driveway.

I always found that funny, cause I test drive the car I'm looking to buy at least twice... so each time I test drive the car shouldn't they be taking 10% off the price  each time I leave the dealership?

The more  learn about this game the dodgier it is sounding. The money issues would all be fine if lots of people in the beta were happy about the game and the gameplay but they aren't.

Originally posted by Locklain

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by slask777

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by slask777

Well Mrbloodworth, an agreement can say whatever they want it to say, it still can't ignore the law and make contradicting terms. The law is the law and no business is above it, written agreement or not.

You waved the right.

 

So if you waved your right cause a clever salesman fooled you, you got no rights? Don't think it works that way even down in the old US of A. Here in Norway atleast, that's not the case. You are guaranteed your rights no matter what.

 

Hey, clever salesmen trick people in the US all the time into buying POS American cars and we don't have a right to return them  (past the 3 day limit)

Sure you can return them but they depreciate in value by 10% or more as soon as the front tires leave the dealership's driveway.

Key difference here but of course you know it and just decided to ignore it:

You have the end product in your possession that you contracted for therefore you are under limitations as to the ability to return said product.

In this case who has their boxed copy of the game in hand yet?? Come on all you emos lets see a show of hands.......

Still waiting........

Oh thats right there is no product in hand yet so guess what????? YOU CAN CANCEL NO MATTER WHAT SV SAYS. Think otherwise? Take a basic business law class semester one and then tell me that.

Oh BTW the 3 day limit? It only applies to purchases made outside the sellers retail place of business but of course you knew that also.

I haven't read the entire thread; too long, I just have to say...SV is not an American company. They do not follow the laws of America in the term of refunds and returns. They do not have to follow those laws.

Yeah, it may suck; and the double postings suck; but that's why debit cards and credit cards have the option to dispute charges. So suck it up; and take responsibility, it's the chance you take for making a deal with a non-American company. I did the same, and haven't had a problem, and I am patiently, and happily waiting for my Beta block.

Originally posted by TenchiMuyo

I haven't read the entire thread; too long, I just have to say...SV is not an American company. They do not follow the laws of America in the term of refunds and returns. They do not have to follow those laws.

Yeah, it may suck; and the double postings suck; but that's why debit cards and credit cards have the option to dispute charges. So suck it up; and take responsibility, it's the chance you take for making a deal with a non-American company. I did the same, and haven't had a problem, and I am patiently, and happily waiting for my Beta block.

See that right there is another reason it gets tricky to fight the charge backs. That makes it even harder for SV to fight the charge backs not harder on the consumer. U.S. consumers have the decided upper hand in this whole mess due to a great number of reasons, others might be in the same position but the only group I know this applies to are the U.S. players. Online purchases are one of those area's where the laws again favor the customer and even more so than if it was an actual physical shop. With the amount of internet fraud and such out there you couldn't imagine how much the scale is tip'd in favor of the consumor. Considering SV is located in a completely different country all together when the U.S. consumor goes to there bank or CC company and explains the situation they would have no hesitation in doing the charge back and as I stated earlier there is little SV can do with all of the factors in play.  You must keep in mind, CC companies especially don't want people afraid to spend there money. The more money people spend on those cards the more money the CC companies make. When a customer says "Hey, I don't have my product yet and I want my money back" CC companies have no issue doing that charge back to keep there customers happy. Like anything else it's a business and there in it to make money and the key to that for CC's is to keep those customers happy and spending money they don't have.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by slask777

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by slask777

Well Mrbloodworth, an agreement can say whatever they want it to say, it still can't ignore the law and make contradicting terms. The law is the law and no business is above it, written agreement or not.

You waved the right.

 

So if you waved your right cause a clever salesman fooled you, you got no rights? Don't think it works that way even down in the old US of A. Here in Norway atleast, that's not the case. You are guaranteed your rights no matter what.

 

Hey, clever salesmen trick people in the US all the time into buying POS American cars and we don't have a right to return them  (past the 3 day limit)

And this isn't correct either lol, you just need to know your states lemon laws. And yes they very from state to state. I've returned 3 cars in my life (cars take a bit more work than a game lol). 1 was to carsmacks (Yes I know how it's spelled theres a reason for it)  after it was totaled in a car wreck (This was allowed due to a faulty airbag which is also the reason for the lawsuit that followed and was settled out of court) and 2 others  1 of which had a bent frame and the other turned out to have had the mileage tampered with. Full refunds on all, but it did take some work on my part for those. The more expensive the item the more work it can be to get your money back.

Originally posted by samf

The more  learn about this game the dodgier it is sounding. The money issues would all be fine if lots of people in the beta were happy about the game and the gameplay but they aren't.

What are you talking about?  Star Vault made it very clear before they offered the pre-orders that they would be non-refundable and that pre-ordering would get you access to beta.

I'm talking about a real beta test, like the ones we had back in the UO/EQ days, which was also made perfectly clear.

If someone that pre-ordered is making judgements on the game in a very early beta state and want their money back they have no one to blame but themselves. 

I swear, MMO gamers seem to get whinier every year.

If the OP has already been invited to beta I hope that Star Vault proves that the OP has already had partial delivery of their purchase and is no longer entitled to a refund.

If the OP hasn't even been invited to beta yet, then I agree he should get a full refund and I'm sure his CC company will be happy to help.

Regardless if people are getting refunds or not, I seriously believe that unless there are certain circumstances such as loss of occupation or whatnot a life changing occurance that they should not get their money back, I have preordered the game and I'm happy with the decision because I know how an actual beta works not the sorry excuses for betas that they have now a days, just a glorified marketing scheme, more than an actual beta.

I feel sorry for SV that they have so many people bitching about refunds and what not, they shouldn't have to deal with giving people refunds because their to stupid to comprehend what is laid out before them. They stated before beta was even started what they would be including in the beginning of the beta and the majority of people trying to get refunds are trying for the refunds because they want the game gift wrapped in beta so they can play it instead of test it.

I like the laws to an extent, but I don't believe the response of the games beta wasn't what I expected is a reasonable reason to get a refund.

Originally posted by Abloec

Regardless if people are getting refunds or not, I seriously believe that unless there are certain circumstances such as loss of occupation or whatnot a life changing occurance that they should not get their money back, I have preordered the game and I'm happy with the decision because I know how an actual beta works not the sorry excuses for betas that they have now a days, just a glorified marketing scheme, more than an actual beta.

 

I feel sorry for SV that they have so many people bitching about refunds and what not, they shouldn't have to deal with giving people refunds because their to stupid to comprehend what is laid out before them. They stated before beta was even started what they would be including in the beginning of the beta and the majority of people trying to get refunds are trying for the refunds because they want the game gift wrapped in beta so they can play it instead of test it.

 

I like the laws to an extent, but I don't believe the response of the games beta wasn't what I expected is a reasonable reason to get a refund.

Agree with you totally. If someone wants a refund because the beta was not what they expected then they should not be allowed a refund (though they can get one if they try).

The point is if they product is not delivered yet, which it isn't. Anyone can cancel an order and get a refund. Show me the laws of any country where that is not true. I want the actual citation, not some hearsay or wikii entry. The actual citation, code or statute  or you are blowing smoke out your ass.

Does anyone else miss the days when AOL was still prominent and most of the stupidity on the net was contained within? Looking back, I'm coming to believe AOL was providing more of a service to the rest of us than its subscribers.

Most of you pre-ordering were not even going to buy the game, you just wanted a freebe. This is just another example of the scum in mmorpg communities. You paid for it, now tough shit.

Originally posted by slask777

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by slask777

Well Mrbloodworth, an agreement can say whatever they want it to say, it still can't ignore the law and make contradicting terms. The law is the law and no business is above it, written agreement or not.

You waved the right.

 

So if you waved your right cause a clever salesman fooled you, you got no rights? Don't think it works that way even down in the old US of A. Here in Norway atleast, that's not the case. You are guaranteed your rights no matter what.

Don't agree to things you dont understand, or, sign it, just dont be surprised that what it said, was correct and will be enforced.

Did you read and agree to the terms and conditions? You only have yourself to blame if you now have regret. I think people just wanted a sure shot at a beta slot, and thought they could just pre-order, get the code, play some beta, and cancel. Even though it said IN PLAIN ENGLISH, no refunds. There is no controversy here.

Stuck on stupid I tell you.

What is with you people?