Originally posted by Silver_Leaf

Originally posted by Xasapis

 I have no intention to buy a console for the forseable future. I guess I'll be left out from this innovation.

 

I personally despise console gamers. PC gaming FTW!!! But if you have BOTH a console and a PC, ur fine. No, ur not half a looser, its completely all right. However, console gamers are retards, wii are double retards.

 

WHY so harsh? Think about it. For the price of an xbox, you can soup up your old comp. Or replace it entirely. You're gona have to biy a comp anyway. But besides the price diff, if you play xbox only, you're probably an antisocial in terms of gaming considering mmo just doesnt happen on xbox... not yet.

FFXI was on Xbox and it was an MMO that ran for 5-6 years and it's still going. There actually making a new FF MMO due to the success of the first. Of course it was on PC, PS2 and Xbox360. Don't worry a lot of PC players have little knowledge of what consoles are capable of now days. Did you know that you can even use a keyboard and mouse with consoles now?

yeah that divide is pretty slim now days lol. Consoles generally experience less lag, less cheats, and less D/C's than PC's in many games now days.

I'd think PC gamers would see this as an endorsement of their elite status.  We're not Dirt Soldiers, we're Pod Pilots.  Let them suck gravity and hardship while we cruise around, eternally, in our cozy womblike podships far removed from the grit and grime and blood and sweat.  We're the aces.  They're just grunts, dogfaces, cannonfodder.*

*I say this as someone who may well pick up Dirt 514 and check it out on his beloved PS3.  I also say this as a PC gamer, and Eve Online vet, who's a bit wary of the online console community.  The difference between the kinds of chatter you run across in many PC MMOs and in online console games can be huge.  Keeping us at arms length from each other, and given our preexisting biases/temperments, might well play even more strongly into creating a believeable universe.  Look at any rivalry between service branches and you see something like this.

Originally posted by Wraithone

Originally posted by LexStriker

I am sorry... I feel that CCP has made a serious customer relations mistake here by not including their desktop players in this new expansion, especially if there is going to be interaction between the main game and the expansion. If there was no interaction between the two, then I would not have an issue here. This interaction would be a great selling point if one playing the main game also had access to the expansion without having to buy a whole new gaming platform. But with this interaction and not having a common platform that both parts of the game could be played on... that to me is a really big issue.

CCP has always come across as one of, if not the most, user friendly gaming companies out there. I have respected them as such and have said so many times on various forums. However, I feel this restricting Dust to a gaming platform completely different from than that of the main game is a big step backwards in this regards, and an insult to the current player base that has supported this game over the years. From a purely business perspective, perhaps this is not a bad move, and I can understand reasons for doing this... especially in trying to expand CCP's customer base. However, I put this move on the same level as when SWG made their major design change years back and saw a good portion of their player base walk away... including myself. Even though EvE Online will not loose much in the way of its player base in this business decision as SWG did, and I am sure CCP is counting on that (perhaps a little too confident and arrogant, but we shall see), I cannot help but think that this is going to leave a sour feeling in many of the EvE Online players.

The problem now is that CCP has made the decision and thus cannot change their course now. So we, as dedicated players, are either forced to buy a gaming platform we may not want to buy or be left out of a portion of the game. All I can say is 'thank you CCP!'... as also a PC FPS player, I will remember this. Unfortunately it is human nature that one can do a hundred things right, but people will only remember the one big thing one did wrong... and this is CCP's one big thing wrong for me.

 

 

Thats interesting, but I don't see the insult involved. This ISN'T an expansion of Eve. Its a completely different game, that will have some second hand influence on it. We will have to see how it works out. I'm happy for them being able to expand their player base beyond the typical Eve demographic. I doubt most Eve players would have any real interest in a MMOFPS.

Picking a console for this new game wouldn't have been my choice(console FPS's in my experience are stiff, and not nearly as responsive as mouse and keyboard PC FPS's). But perhaps they are looking at different factors? I do know that the Asian suits have a phobia about PC games without some nonsense like GameGuard(one of the most intrusive and poorly coded apps I've seen for quite some time) embedded in their code base. Perhaps since consoles are relatively more "secure" that influenced their decision?

It has yet to be announced if consoles will remain the only platform that Dust 514 will run on. Perhaps they will go to PC later? In any event, consoles aren't that expensive these days. If you really want to play, perhaps you should pick one up? You would then have access to all of the nice console games for that platform as well.
 

That seems to be where the communication break down is. EvE players are treating this like an EvE expansion when it's nothing like that. It's a completely seperate game with seperate mechanics that will interact with EvE in a limited way. It's funny really lol. These very people are accussing CCP of getting greedy and stabbing there player base in the back then shouting "Give it to me Free on PC or I quit!" .

This really does represent a step into the next frontier for MMOs.

Right now everyone in the virtual world is playing it more or less the same way. We all have the same mechanics and all have the same set of roles. What this does is open the world to take another portion of the game that's been automated and add in a new type of gameplay.

This could be big, or it could flop.

"4players.de has talked to Petursson after the show, asking why there will be no PC-Version. Petursson smiled and stated, that he cannot comment on it right now. The only thing he can say at the moment is that there will be a console version."

Originally posted by schawo

"4players.de has talked to Petursson after the show, asking why there will be no PC-Version. Petursson smiled and stated, that he cannot comment on it right now. The only thing he can say at the moment is that there will be a console version."

It seems pretty obvious to me that the announcement of this game is also an announcement of the long-awaited station ambulation feature in EVE.  Why would I believe that?  It's in the name; specifically the 514 .  Seems plausible to me that it's even more of a win / win for folks potentially.

Originally posted by VirDan

Originally posted by BarCrow

WOW....great idea. This is the kind of experimentation that is truly needed in online gaming . I can't wait to see how World of Darkness pans out...and if similar implementation will be used.

 

Unfortunately, it could lead one to believe that WoD will suffer the console taint that CO and STO have.

Think about the hardware though, in regards to consoles.

X-Box: 2001, X-Box 360: 2005

PS: 1994, PS2: 2000, PS3: 2006

Think about how far graphic cards have come since 2005 and 2006.  The thing with PC games is that even if you do not have the latest video card, you can still play many of the games.  As the newer cards come out, the older cards get cheaper.  You can keep up with technology.  This allows developers to further explore new technologies.

We are about due for the next set of consoles, eh?  Then another 4-5 years, eh?

At the time of the X-Box 360/PS3, we had ATI X800-ATI X1900 and nVidia GF6xxx/GF7xxx.  ATI has gone through R600/R700 since then and R800s are coming out.  nVidia has gone through GF8xxx/GF9xxx/GTX1xx/GTX2xx and GTX3xx are on the way.

Why on earth would you want a MMORPG tied to console technology?

        I definitely understand your point....and although I primarily play on PC...It would be nice to hop on a shared world via ps3 or 360 for a change. That is the innovation I appreciate...the shared and  malleable universe. Whether it will work is a different story. It also appeals to me that I can play an mmo I like on the console for several years...and not have to upgrade my gpu( and possibly cpu+) 2-3 times despite whether I can afford it or not...... I will always have a PC..and likely use it to game....but more options are always better. Also...the 2 separate game/platforms ..playing differently but of the same universe is a much better idea than multi-platforming the same game. When you multi platform the same game across platforms...e.g. 360...ps3..wii...pc...it always seems they cater to the lowest denominator..and graphics suffer of course. I don't want a ps3 game to look slightly better than it's wii counterpart...it should blow it away. We all know that is not always the case.

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

 

 

That seems to be where the communication break down is. EvE players are treating this like an EvE expansion when it's nothing like that. It's a completely seperate game with seperate mechanics that will interact with EvE in a limited way. It's funny really lol.

Seperate game with seperate mechanics ? and having impact on eve ?

Eve is a PVP game and  0.0 sovereignity is core/ driving force (from wars to economy ,basicly everything) anyone else  effecting sovereignty than eve players unacceptable (this is why eve players  treating it an expansion with your words ). Why eve players have to depend Dust players to attack a region /defend their territory?

Originally posted by jagd1

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

 

 

That seems to be where the communication break down is. EvE players are treating this like an EvE expansion when it's nothing like that. It's a completely seperate game with seperate mechanics that will interact with EvE in a limited way. It's funny really lol.

 

Seperate game with seperate mechanics ? and having impact on eve ?

 

Eve is a PVP game and  0.0 sovereignity is core/ driving force (from wars to economy ,basicly everything) anyone else  effecting sovereignty than eve players unacceptable (this is why eve players  treating it an expansion with your words ). Why eve players have to depend Dust players to attack a region /defend their territory?

 

 

I'd say that depends on how it works out. We have VERY limited information on how this will impact Sov yet.

I will wait and see exactly what they are doing before I scream doom and gloom.

It's a very very cool development for the MMO genre as a whole, but potentially a disastrously bad one for EVE in particular. It will depend on the mechanics and details of how it impacts SOV.

Something I see as a very serious possible problem is that it will totally overturn the status quo/balance of power in nullsec. Ever power bloc will have to scramble to find new allies among the dirtpounders or suffer. Groups that already have a massive cross-genre membership, like say Goomswarm, will become monolthic juggernauts.

Originally posted by ericbelser

I will wait and see exactly what they are doing before I scream doom and gloom.

It's a very very cool development for the MMO genre as a whole, but potentially a disastrously bad one for EVE in particular. It will depend on the mechanics and details of how it impacts SOV.

Something I see as a very serious possible problem is that it will totally overturn the status quo/balance of power in nullsec. Ever power bloc will have to scramble to find new allies among the dirtpounders or suffer. Groups that already have a massive cross-genre membership, like say Goomswarm, will become monolthic juggernauts.

Wouldn't that be ironic? Given the Love/Hate attitude the Goonies have with CCP?

Or it could be some other group entirely. We will have to see how it works out.

Originally posted by Wraithone

Originally posted by jagd1

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

 

 

That seems to be where the communication break down is. EvE players are treating this like an EvE expansion when it's nothing like that. It's a completely seperate game with seperate mechanics that will interact with EvE in a limited way. It's funny really lol.

 

Seperate game with seperate mechanics ? and having impact on eve ?

 

Eve is a PVP game and  0.0 sovereignity is core/ driving force (from wars to economy ,basicly everything) anyone else  effecting sovereignty than eve players unacceptable (this is why eve players  treating it an expansion with your words ). Why eve players have to depend Dust players to attack a region /defend their territory?

 

 

 

I'd say that depends on how it works out. We have VERY limited information on how this will impact Sov yet.

I remember 2 years ago i think it was when CCP released some concept ideas on planetry soventry where each world was split up into a few zones where whoever got majoraty controll of a world would gain certain resources needed to make certain items. Now how this would be achieved was unclear all CCP said was that Pod pilots would use a 'RTS' based system to controll each zone using tanks and marines.

Perhaps Dust was what he was alluding too.

On a side note i have to say i love the name used for the marines being Dust as it kind of shows how small and insignificant and.....Disposable they are to Pod Pilots who are the Godlike Elite of the EvE universe.

CCP knows there shiet. I think this is a awesome expansion in the EvE universe. BUTTTTTTTTTTTT, i mean, REALLLLY???? WHY NO COMP. SUPPORT. that boggles my mind, hopefully that will change.

I think this a really innovative concept.  I just can't see me playing with my computer and EVE on one screen and my Playstation playing Dust 514 on another screen,  trying to play both games at once.

Originally posted by VirDan

For the life of me, I do not understand all the fanbois reaching for a kleenex over this.  Even if it was brought to PC, it simply does not fit in with the Eve Universe and makes no sense.

Seriously, consider Eve for a moment - just how do you see any sort of FPS fitting into it?

Clones?

Ability to move troops to a planet?

Ability to reinforce those troops?

Etc, etc, etc?

Who cares if it is for console or PC/Mac/Linux; if the simple concept of it makes no sense for the game universe itself?

When you shake your head to you hear stuff rattling inside?

You seem to have some strange, deep seated issues regarding PC vs. Console gaming.  I don't like FPS games on my 360.  It's a matter of opinion, and preference.  It's ok to be tolerant of other people's opposing opinions.  You don't have to take it personally that I like something different than you.  It's quite normal, I assure you, and there is nothing elitist about it. Based on your own logic, I could say you are a console elitist.  See the flaw now? No?

I think this is a major risk by CCP, because most console gamers have no clue what EVE is.  In fact, I would bet most MMO gamers (thinking about WoW here) don't have the slightest clue EVE exists.  Console gamers are going to look for a fast paced, instant gratification shooter with achievements to unlock. They aren't likely to care much about what is going on in EVE. That means this game better simply stand on its own as an awesome shooter.  Unless it utterly rocks, it will just be a bargain bin title that CCP will end up having to support online for only a few players.

Again, my opinion.

I'm glad they are developing the technology.  Perhaps it will lead to something more interesting later on down the road.  I just don't know if loosely combining two different games on two different platforms is going to create anything meaningful. 

Here is a question.  Taking this technology to the next level as some people have mentioned here, are there any EVE players who really want to hang out with console FPS kids on a space station? I really don't see the two communities meshing well.

 

Most "mature" FPS gamers do like the concept of a world that changes and a concept that they are actually fighting "for something".  Character progression and customization (via their own vehicle among other things) is also something that appeals to FPS players... that much should be obvious from recent innovations in most shooters. 

If anything, I think we're likely to see the more mature FPS players lean towards this type of game.  Granted, it will need to be a top notch shooter to keep console gamers interested, it can't lean on the crutch of being "meaningful" and hope to compete with other console FPS games.

As for the console vs pc crowd hatreds, I think its only natural that there would be plenty of animosity between Dust Marines and Pod Pilots.  That sounds pretty solid to me.

Originally posted by drel

I think this a really innovative concept.  I just can't see me playing with my computer and EVE on one screen and my Playstation playing Dust 514 on another screen,  trying to play both games at once.

It's being developed for consoles because they aren't aiming for current Eve Online players.  They are aiming for a different type of player. 

Think about it... you create a game that appeals to Eve Online players... what happens?  Those gamers just shift from one game to another.  That does you no good financially.  You want to keep your current playerbase while adding additional players.  The best way to do that is to market your second game to an entirely different type of gamer.  If there is a 180 opposite of Eve Online on the PC, its an FPS on a console.

This is the same reason the next Blizzard MMO is going to end up being vastly different than WoW.  It just doesn't make sense to steal customers from yourself and spend tons of development money/time on it.

If that really is their thinking, then they have a few rocks in their noggins.

I'm currently an ex-EVE player, just got tired of it all and stopped playing...but I still follow the game, freely admit that I enjoyed playing it and like the universe....

I've also been known to play FPS games in the past and would do so again if one caught my interest...but *never* on a console. I haven't played a game on a console since my parents Atari 25yrs ago and am not about to go back.......

Originally posted by ericbelser

If that really is their thinking, then they have a few rocks in their noggins.

I'm currently an ex-EVE player, just got tired of it all and stopped playing...but I still follow the game, freely admit that I enjoyed playing it and like the universe....

I've also been known to play FPS games in the past and would do so again if one caught my interest...but *never* on a console. I haven't played a game on a console since my parents Atari 25yrs ago and am not about to go back.......

Halo, Gears of War, and Call of Duty basically put you in the minority of FPS players.  You might not like console FPS games, but that's where the majority of gamers are.  To think that because you don't like it that CCP must have "rocks in their noggins" is ignorant.

Call of Duty 4 alone has something along the line of 13 MILLION unique users on Xbox Live. It's not by chance that CCP is dipping its toes into the console FPS market.

Originally posted by comerb

 Call of Duty 4 alone has something along the line of 13 MILLION unique users on Xbox Live. It's not by chance that CCP is dipping its toes into the console FPS market.

None of which have ever heard of CCP or EVE and the vast majority of which won't stay with a single game for more than a few months...great player base to be planning a persistent world element off of eh?

CCP also has *zero* experience making console games - but if that's the way they want to go...>shrug<

Clearly I am "ignorant" for thinking it might have been a smarter move to make the game for the PC, but design it from the start so it would be portable to console...I don't see how that situation would have hurt them compared to how they are choosing to do things.

Originally posted by ericbelser

Originally posted by comerb

 Call of Duty 4 alone has something along the line of 13 MILLION unique users on Xbox Live. It's not by chance that CCP is dipping its toes into the console FPS market.

 

None of which have ever heard of CCP or EVE and the vast majority of which won't stay with a single game for more than a few months...great player base to be planning a persistent world element off of eh?

CCP also has *zero* experience making console games - but if that's the way they want to go...>shrug<

Clearly I am "ignorant" for thinking it might have been a smarter move to make the game for the PC, but design it from the start so it would be portable to console...I don't see how that situation would have hurt them compared to how they are choosing to do things.

Knowing how these things go, they might have been offered a Sweet Deal for a console exclusive.  No telling how long that exclusive contract might last. I'm not at all impressed by console FPS titles. They are too stiff and limited compared to keyboard mouse FPS's for my taste.  We will just have to wait and see how it turns out.

Originally posted by ericbelser

Originally posted by comerb

 Call of Duty 4 alone has something along the line of 13 MILLION unique users on Xbox Live. It's not by chance that CCP is dipping its toes into the console FPS market.

 

None of which have ever heard of CCP or EVE and the vast majority of which won't stay with a single game for more than a few months...great player base to be planning a persistent world element off of eh?

CCP also has *zero* experience making console games - but if that's the way they want to go...>shrug<

Clearly I am "ignorant" for thinking it might have been a smarter move to make the game for the PC, but design it from the start so it would be portable to console...I don't see how that situation would have hurt them compared to how they are choosing to do things.

Console gamers don't need to know about CCP or Eve.  Why would they?  If its a good shooter, they'll play it.  . Console games don't suffer from lack of exposure like most PC games do. That it has persistent elements might make them play it over "generic shooter #2" though, and if they enjoy the game play they'll take interest in those added elements.

FPS players are every bit as dedicated to their games as MMOers.  I still know folks that play Counterstrike.  Sure there are gamers who hop from game to game, but If you think many MMO gamers don't game-hop like a mofo, you are kidding yourself.  That's one of the primary reasons this site exists.

A console is just a computer with a game-pad.  If anything its easier to program for because you don't have to take into account multiple hardware and control configurations.  Plus the tools for developing on a console are pretty extensive.  CCP won't have any trouble with developing something on an platform that's easier to develop for.

You design for the console for several reasons:

1) It has more red-tape attached to it.  You have to deal with Sony/Microsoft and all the quality control stuff that goes on there... as well as dealing with their online hosting service (and believe me Microsoft wants a cut of the pie from any persistent MMO that is hosted via Xbox Live). 

2) It's notoriously harder to hack a console than a computer, and in a competitive environment like Eve that becomes a real concern.

3) It has a much larger active FPS gaming crowd.  And the online social service to host it.  Duh.

4) The control schemes are not as tight.  Develop a shooter for a PC and then move it to a console, and people are going to be unhappy w/ control comparisons.  Develop for a console and move to the PC, and its a bonus.

5) If they do end up porting it to a PC, it will look a billion times better on a PC.  You don't want to have a PC version come out that looks stunning and then have a console version that looks like trash in comparison come out later.  Better to start with trash(comparatively) and move on to stunning, people handle that better.

It's an exciting development. The potential for the Eve universe is enormous. I think it's still in its infancy right now.

Originally posted by ericbelser

Originally posted by comerb

 Call of Duty 4 alone has something along the line of 13 MILLION unique users on Xbox Live. It's not by chance that CCP is dipping its toes into the console FPS market.

 

None of which have ever heard of CCP or EVE and the vast majority of which won't stay with a single game for more than a few months...great player base to be planning a persistent world element off of eh?

CCP also has *zero* experience making console games - but if that's the way they want to go...>shrug<

Clearly I am "ignorant" for thinking it might have been a smarter move to make the game for the PC, but design it from the start so it would be portable to console...I don't see how that situation would have hurt them compared to how they are choosing to do things.

Have console FPS gamers ever had a reason to stay with a console FPS before? An evolving, persistent world in which what you do means something after you've done it is a little different from playing the same map for the 50th time.

CCP didn't have a whole lot of MMO experience when they created EvE. They've got a lot of ambition and a lot of balls, and they're trying something new and different, unlike virtually every other company out there.

The poster above who said that Dust is not primarily aimed at existing EvE players is 100% correct. It's aimed at people who are "interested in EvE, but I just dont like the gameplay". How many posts like that have you seen on this site and others? People who are fascinated by the dirty politics, intricate economy, the evolving history... but for whom the basic pointyclicky spaceships thing just doesn't work.

Well a console FPS is about as far as it's possible to get from pointyclicky spaceships gameplay. We can hardly accuse them of not listening to their critics.

Tbh, Dust is the way they're going in the future. Controlling spaceships on your PC will eventually be only one part of the greater "EvE-verse" if their plans succeed; a Console FPS is just the first step into the diversification program. Have you read the EvE chronicles fiction? Notice how a large percentage of them take place on a planet? Just off the top of my head, I can see CCP creating some kind of politics MMO where the goal is to gain political power in the empire factions - you could play that from an iPhone. You think the pilots are nervous about console kiddies affecting sov? How loud would they squeal if a bunch of latte-sipping, beret-wearing iPhoners took up the reins of empire power? Plenty of people like to make the "spaceships and spreadsheets" joke about EvE, but you could easily make a browser game out of the current market trading. The EvE lore contains atmospheric fighters and mecha-ish power armour; those could be integrated into Dust, or EvE, or be used for an entirely new PC game for fighting in xeno- or exoatmospheric environments like gas giant moons, Venus-like hell-worlds, giant asteroids...

And all of these games will be linked through their COSMOS project. That choice of name was not an accident. Imagine iPoliticians contracting a merc pod-pilot alliance to interdict the faction warfare area in Black Rise so that the incumbent Caldari administration are discredited. Browser marketeers bribing a dust clan to lose a battle so that the price of Dysprosium spikes and they can make billions in profit. A small pod Alliance forming a metaAlliance with dust clans to hold a small constellation of systems with an above normal distribution of earthlike planets. A Dust clan blackmailing the Gallante admin to interdict supplies of hand blasters, which are the favoured weapon of their rival clan...

Imagine...

Pod pilots have been CCP's "only child" for a long time. Now they're gonna have to get used to having a little brother, and soon enough, maybe more, a lot more. What I'm seeing in this thread is exactly the kind of tantrums an only child throws when his favoured status is threatened by getting siblings. Exactly the same kind. It's fundamentally childish jealousy, and it's ridiculous. We're the first, but CCP never said that we'd be the only.

Luckily, being the eldest is still pretty good. I predict that pod pilots may well come to be outnumbered, perhaps even greatly outnumbered in this future "EvE-verse", but we'll always be the elite, the richest, the most powerful individually, and the core of the game.