Originally posted by VirDan

Originally posted by Zorndorf

 

This expansion rebuilds the original from scratch and so it  centers around regrouping the players base back to Azeroth in a very different way.

It is a very nice and original solution to centralise gameplay.

Up until now MMO expansions slowly killed the player concentrations. This effecively promotes the thinning out of the players concentrations by bringing too much spread out areas.

Coupled with the updated graphics and dungeons/raids/ 3new BG's and new PvP zones, it is effectlively WOW 2 without calling it like that.

Very good shot at expanding the game in another manner than "just another new zone".

 

But it is just another zone, as they are just redrawing the old zones.  It does nothing to centralize the game.  A new person is still going to have to head to the bare Outlands at some point.  With this, they will also then head out to bare Northrend.  It just means at some point they will come back to the mainland, but still potentially be spread out - because there still is no centralization.

It is not WoW2 by any means.  It is just more artificial icing on an already stale cake.

Their new ideas are old ideas from old games.

They could do so much with this game, but they do not need to do so - they have enough people happy to run the wheel they have no need.  It is kind of sad.

Nope. You're wrong.

Azeroth is rebuild and zones even have new leveling requirements.

If you would level a new toon, you wouldn't even find most old questlines anymore.

This expansion reconcentrates on the Core Azeroth settings.

It uses the newer techniques introduced in WotLK (like phasing, but this time from the very start).

Of course by doing this it is WOW 2 in redone Azeroth with ALL players concentrated on the 2 main continents.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by VirDan

But it is just another zone, as they are just redrawing the old zones.  It does nothing to centralize the game.  A new person is still going to have to head to the bare Outlands at some point.  With this, they will also then head out to bare Northrend.  It just means at some point they will come back to the mainland, but still potentially be spread out - because there still is no centralization.

It is not WoW2 by any means.  It is just more artificial icing on an already stale cake.

Their new ideas are old ideas from old games.

They could do so much with this game, but they do not need to do so - they have enough people happy to run the wheel they have no need.  It is kind of sad.

 

Nope. You're wrong.

Azeroth is rebuild and zones even have new leveling requirements.

If you would level a new toon, you wouldn't even find most old questlines anymore.

This expansion reconcentrates on the Core Azeroth settings.

It uses the newer techniques introduced in WotLK (like phasing, but this time from the very start).

Of course by doing this it is WOW 2 in redone Azeroth with ALL players concentrated on the 2 main continents.

 

 

 

As a new toon, the person would go through a series of quests until they reach around 58.  They would still head to Outlands.  They would head to Northrend around 68.  Nothing about this xpac changes that.

Even before that, you have characters starting in four major cities per side.  So again, it is not centralized from the core.

Even for a Human starting out - they would generally move from Elwynn to Westfall to Redridge/etc.  They are spread out in zones, and this is repeated for all races spread out across Azeroth.

If the point you are trying to make is about Azeroth as a whole, then even with TBC people ended up going to the Sunwell and Northrend is on Azeroth.  So redoing the zones does nothing to centralize anything, if you are looking at it from that point of view.  Even if you wan to leave out Northrend as not being part of the two original continents, TBC still involved Azeroth in that sense.

It is just an expansion.  It is nothing as "Azeroth shatttering" as being WoW2; regardless of the name of the xpac being Cataclysm.

Originally posted by VirDan

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Omega3

 Have to clap hands toward blizzard tho; by just retinkering the old vanilla world, they make massive cut on the cost of the development, which means even more money for them.

 

This expansion rebuilds the original from scratch and so it  centers around regrouping the players base back to Azeroth in a very different way.

It is a very nice and original solution to centralise gameplay.

Up until now MMO expansions slowly killed the player concentrations. This effecively promotes the thinning out of the players concentrations by bringing too much spread out areas.

Coupled with the updated graphics and dungeons/raids/ 3new BG's and new PvP zones, it is effectlively WOW 2 without calling it like that.

Very good shot at expanding the game in another manner than "just another new zone".

 

But it is just another zone, as they are just redrawing the old zones.  It does nothing to centralize the game.  A new person is still going to have to head to the bare Outlands at some point.  With this, they will also then head out to bare Northrend.  It just means at some point they will come back to the mainland, but still potentially be spread out - because there still is no centralization.

It is not WoW2 by any means.  It is just more artificial icing on an already stale cake.

Their new ideas are old ideas from old games.

They could do so much with this game, but they do not need to do so - they have enough people happy to run the wheel they have no need.  It is kind of sad.

Not quite, Blizzard made a lot of...i wouldnt say promises, but rather intentions back during closed beta (seems so long ago)... with this move they have admitted they wish to touch back up on that intent. Essentially, they want to bring the warcraft back to warcraft... if that makes any sense. Goblins were wanted as a playable race for a long time, flying in the regular world was also in one of the early beta stages, they are bringing that back... it is also setting up room for the player housing they were going to add in (including guild housing). It is also clear that the way blizzard talks about this direction, is that war is finally coming back to azeroth. Meaning, actually fighting over land, building and destroying. Putting the warcraft strategy game we all love into the mmorpg. Thus a more dynamic war torn world. I am sure WAR helped spur this desire as well (even though the game failed as a whole).

I am very optimistic as to what Blizzard plans. It might bring me back as well.

Although it is seemingly a reason to exist for so many writers on these fora to mock WoW, Blizzard's giant-of-an-MMO managed to surprise once again. They have cherry-picked the best from other major releases from the past few years and are about to add those to add yet another layer to their already vastly diverse world. The alternate advancement system, guild leveling and ranked battleground fights will enhance the gaming experience for both casuals and hard core alike. Certainly, it will be more of the same but with a different flavour.

The arguments against WoW are normally criticising one of the two fronts: a) the end-game involves of incessant equipment grind OR b) the end-game is mind-numbingly easy, a true game for carebears with auto-targeting. The first argument is somewhat artificial as there still are no MMOs without a goal of some sort. And no, sandbox games are not free from this goal-setting mentality either, the goals are just more dictatated by player's preferances. If they add Noby Noby Boy MMO, then maybe we are free from goals, but even then someone will find their Girl-growing stats a source for "development". The latter argument is more a matter of taste, but even there WoW has fairly little to feel intimidated. The current end-game WoW is likely one of the most competitive MMOs not just on PvE front but also on PvP. The hardest raid encounters are beaten only by a minimal number of players worldwide (minimal in WoW standards) and the highest ladders of arena certainly are a challenge for everyone.

In the end, one may say that WoW has grown stale or is not your cup of tea. But saying that WoW is anything short of the most diverse, polished and entertaining MMO in existance is somewhat misleading. Like it or not.

Originally posted by Rabenwolf

Not quite, Blizzard made a lot of...i wouldnt say promises, but rather intentions back during closed beta (seems so long ago)... with this move they have admitted they wish to touch back up on that intent. Essentially, they want to bring the warcraft back to warcraft... if that makes any sense. Goblins were wanted as a playable race for a long time, flying in the regular world was also in one of the early beta stages, they are bringing that back... it is also setting up room for the player housing they were going to add in (including guild housing). It is also clear that the way blizzard talks about this direction, is that war is finally coming back to azeroth. Meaning, actually fighting over land, building and destroying. Putting the warcraft strategy game we all love into the mmorpg. Thus a more dynamic war torn world. I am sure WAR helped spur this desire as well (even though the game failed as a whole).

I am very optimistic as to what Blizzard plans. It might bring me back as well.

Now actually bringing the war back into warcraft, would be something along the lines of a WoW2.  The things you address here, which I did not see in any of the information on the WoW site or in the posts here - sounds exciting and would bring back more resubs than the information we see posted elsewhere.

Still struggling to see whats 'new' about it. Same shite, different skin as far as I can see.

I will definitely get Cataclysm and resub to WoW ... provided GW2 and SWTOR are not up and running by that point. Either of those games interests me far more than a return to WoW.

My chief complaint with WoW (and LotRO, too, for that matter) is what a pain it is to find groups to run the instances. As such, I see nothing new on that front in Cataclysm (at least, not yet I don't).

So, I guess I'm gravitating toward MMOs that make more content available to solo/duo/trio/casual players. I still like the economy and option to group occasionally that you find in MMOs, but I hate being constantly locked out of great content just because you can't find that full and balanced party for "you-name-it" instance or dungeon. Finding 5 people to do much of anything in WoW is -- currently -- too much of a fun-sucking pain in the butt, imo.

I will grant, however, that Cataclysm is a great idea for WoW.

Originally posted by tmr819

I will definitely get Cataclysm and resub to WoW ... provided GW2 and SWTOR are not up and running by that point. Either of those games interests me far more than a return to WoW.

My chief complaint with WoW (and LotRO, too, for that matter) is what a pain it is to find groups to run the instances. As such, I see nothing new on that front in Cataclysm (at least, not yet I don't).

So, I guess I'm gravitating toward MMOs that make more content available to solo/duo/trio/casual players. I still like the economy and option to group occasionally that you find in MMOs, but I hate being constantly locked out of great content just because you can't find that full and balanced party for "you-name-it" instance or dungeon. Finding 5 people to do much of anything in WoW is -- currently -- too much of a fun-sucking pain in the butt, imo.

I will grant, however, that Cataclysm is a great idea for WoW.

It is too easy to level in WoW.  It has gotten significantly easier and easier to do so.  When TBC first came out, people were still doing much of the stuff for a period of time.  By the time WotLK came out, most people were already done with everything in the blink of an eye and grinding the end game.

Still, there are enough people that complain about not being able to find groups - that they would have more than enough to make those groups.  It might be a case of them all ending up on the same server, lol - and if you do not get there all at the same time - well, they will be done with it all and sitting at the end game with everybody else.

i cant see anything in that trailer that would get me to resub to wow. Like previous posters have been saying where is something that is actually new.. innovative... exciting and different?

Originally posted by Ettirxa

i cant see anything in that trailer that would get me to resub to wow. Like previous posters have been saying where is something that is actually new.. innovative... exciting and different?

 

WoW doesn't do things that are exciting and different, that would require coming up with something first, and coming up with something first is dangerous. much safer to just continue copying ideas from other mmos that didn't quite make it huge. that way, they can point and say, "look it's WoW 2! see how clever we are!" and people are still going to eat this up. with the cast majority of WoW players, never knowing how old some of these ideas are

Originally posted by VirDan

Originally posted by tmr819

I will definitely get Cataclysm and resub to WoW ... provided GW2 and SWTOR are not up and running by that point. Either of those games interests me far more than a return to WoW.

My chief complaint with WoW (and LotRO, too, for that matter) is what a pain it is to find groups to run the instances. As such, I see nothing new on that front in Cataclysm (at least, not yet I don't).

So, I guess I'm gravitating toward MMOs that make more content available to solo/duo/trio/casual players. I still like the economy and option to group occasionally that you find in MMOs, but I hate being constantly locked out of great content just because you can't find that full and balanced party for "you-name-it" instance or dungeon. Finding 5 people to do much of anything in WoW is -- currently -- too much of a fun-sucking pain in the butt, imo.

I will grant, however, that Cataclysm is a great idea for WoW.

It is too easy to level in WoW.  It has gotten significantly easier and easier to do so.  When TBC first came out, people were still doing much of the stuff for a period of time.  By the time WotLK came out, most people were already done with everything in the blink of an eye and grinding the end game.

Still, there are enough people that complain about not being able to find groups - that they would have more than enough to make those groups.  It might be a case of them all ending up on the same server, lol - and if you do not get there all at the same time - well, they will be done with it all and sitting at the end game with everybody else.

I also think the decline in WoWs quality started on the day when they made leveling easier . It instantly became harder to find groups to play mid game instances and made the whole experiance vitually a solo grind from levels 1-60 .Unless Blizzard adress the fundamentals all this is their attempt to polish a turd .
 

I will keep an open mind to this Xpac but as  it stands I m not impressed. i ve seen and heard it all before from this company and exactly nothings changed in fact it only ever gets worse what with the likes of paid faction switching etc .

Given this is most likly a year or more away from release ( i m betting q4 2010 ) it gives all of us bored WoW players plenty of time to experiance what Aion has to offer . If that game delivers the goods there may be no reason at all to want to return to WoW .

I have alot of friends that played WoW for a long time and quit and this expansion isn't bringing them back. Alot of forums I've read have comments from ex-WoW players and most of them are doubtful that the x-pack will do anything for WoW sub-wise. I dont think it will bring people back. I think it will add some new bells and whistles to the game, but wont bring people back. Unless blizzard does some kind of graphic overhaul on the game(and i mean a overhaul on an eve-online trinity 2.0 patch scale!) then I cant see many people returning and resubbing the game just to see a few new features. It's like selling a car and buying the car back because the guy added some pink seat covers. It's just not worth the dough.

I must say that even I who quit soon after TBC, got a bit interested when I saw the promo for the new expansion cataclysm. I think Blizzard will draw many old players back to see how they changed the game world.

Also it's not a news flash that Blizzard is the best in fantasy world of mmos. Nobody even gets close to them. And Aion with it's forced pvp after level 20 will not even put a dent in WoWs armour. BioWare will also not succeed in drawing any significant numbers from WoWs subs. Nobody wants a story driven MMO, sorry that is just the truth.

Expect WoW to rain supreme untill Blizzard comes out with a new MMO. They are just to good for the competion to keep up. And remember this comes from a person that isent even playing their games.

---

Originally posted by VirDan

---

Originally posted by tmr819

I will definitely get Cataclysm and resub to WoW ... provided GW2 and SWTOR are not up and running by that point. Either of those games interests me far more than a return to WoW.
My chief complaint with WoW (and LotRO, too, for that matter) is what a pain it is to find groups to run the instances. As such, I see nothing new on that front in Cataclysm (at least, not yet I don't).
So, I guess I'm gravitating toward MMOs that make more content available to solo/duo/trio/casual players. I still like the economy and option to group occasionally that you find in MMOs, but I hate being constantly locked out of great content just because you can't find that full and balanced party for "you-name-it" instance or dungeon. Finding 5 people to do much of anything in WoW is -- currently -- too much of a fun-sucking pain in the butt, imo.
I will grant, however, that Cataclysm is a great idea for WoW.

---

It is too easy to level in WoW.  It has gotten significantly easier and easier to do so.  When TBC first came out, people were still doing much of the stuff for a period of time.  By the time WotLK came out, most people were already done with everything in the blink of an eye and grinding the end game.
Still, there are enough people that complain about not being able to find groups - that they would have more than enough to make those groups.  It might be a case of them all ending up on the same server, lol - and if you do not get there all at the same time - well, they will be done with it all and sitting at the end game with everybody else.

---

I was not talking about ease of leveling but about the accessibility of the instanced content. I agree it is easy to level to the level cap, but nowadays you have to do that by basically skipping most or all of the instance content. This is definitely true for levels 1 to 60, but even finding groups for BC instances is now a major pain.

If Blizzard was to fix or somehow make the LFG tool more effective and intuitive to use, or else offer different versions of the dungeons, e.g., solo, normal, and heroic, this would be a welcome change, imo. As it is now, I had to basically drop kick all my WC, RFK, etc., quests because it's pointless to even accept them. It's not like you'll ever be able to do them.

Until Blizzard does something to fix this, several other MMOs on the horizon look a whole lot better and more accessible than Cataclysm. I don't want to pay a sub for half a game (i.e., the noninstanced part).

I am not knocking WoW, by the way. It is a good game, imo. I just think the grouping mechanism and instance options are pretty lousy at the moment.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Omega3

 Have to clap hands toward blizzard tho; by just retinkering the old vanilla world, they make massive cut on the cost of the development, which means even more money for them.

 

This expansion rebuilds the original from scratch and so it  centers around regrouping the players base back to Azeroth in a very different way.

It is a very nice and original solution to centralise gameplay.

Up until now MMO expansions slowly killed the player concentrations. This effecively promotes the thinning out of the players concentrations by bringing too much spread out areas.

Coupled with the updated graphics and dungeons/raids/ 3new BG's and new PvP zones, it is effectively WOW 2 without calling it like that.

Very good shot at expanding the game in another manner than "just another new zone".

 

Please. They took existing zones, added some chasms with magma, or new geen textures for desolace. They cut 80% of the creating time needed to make those zones.

There is no graphical overhaul, neither new model character, and the combat system will not change. It's not WoW by any means.

Originally posted by Zlayer77

I must say that even I who quit soon after TBC, got a bit interested when I saw the promo for the new expansion cataclysm. I think Blizzard will draw many old players back to see how they changed the game world.

Also it's not a news flash that Blizzard is the best in fantasy world of mmos. Nobody even gets close to them. And Aion with it's forced pvp after level 20 will not even put a dent in WoWs armour. BioWare will also not succeed in drawing any significant numbers from WoWs subs. Nobody wants a story driven MMO, sorry that is just the truth.

Expect WoW to rain supreme untill Blizzard comes out with a new MMO. They are just to good for the competion to keep up. And remember this comes from a person that isent even playing their games.

 

I think your dreaming there . Nearly everyone i know in WoW is at least going to try Aion . Most people dont play two mmos a month so given a lot of boredom has set in with Warcraft they loses to Aion if its a decent game will be huge in the coming year . This is why Blizzard are anouncing now . Its what we call in europe.The promice of jam tomorrow . Its designed to try an keep players playing in the coming year in the hope that theres good things around the corner . Personally i m bored with WoW which is why i m going to Aion . When i m bored with Aion i ll go elsewhere . It stupid to stay in a game when you get fed up with it . but plenty do .  this XPAC announcement shows is that Blizzard are concerned with the losses they are already experianceing and the expected losses to other games . Its a fools paradise to believe WoW will maintain its current levels of popularity in the coming years . All this is is an effort to stem the tide . It may work for a few months next year and bring people back but without real change they ll soon leave again .

For the record i  m not a wowhater . If i was coming into the game now and was in the 8-14 age group i would love it . Its ideal from players of those ages given its accessability and easy gameplay .

So now ppl will be able to fly and fly and fly in more places, as worgen and goblins and kill new bosses and get new loot. In a better looking environment. Well i dont see whats the groundbreaking new age wtf awesomeness everyone is talking about.

Whats next trolls and flame imps as playable race raiding the domains of intelligent races? 

the whole expansion is real change so i don't get where your coming from. Sure i don't see them garnering any more milllions of players buts its a very safe assumption they will huver above 8mil in the next couple of years. Aion won't dent WoW's population. Hell the main reason it started off so great in the east was because WoW was down for lik 3 months. Id love to see the active numbers of Aion now that WoW's back up. Also I myself will be playing aion on the side for fun. Alot of people play 2 mmo's at once since the fee's aren't expensive.

A friend of mines just likend it to making the whole of the game area into a caverns of time like instance . I had nt of thought of it that way till now . I guess it tantamount to players without the XPAC will be playing on different servers to those with it ?

Originally posted by baldrick76

A friend of mines just likend it to making the whole of the game area into a caverns of time like instance . I had nt of thought of it that way till now . I guess it tantamount to players without the XPAC will be playing on different servers to those with it ?

Nope.  Everyone gets the big changes.  The old Azeroth will be gone for everyone.

All those replies were to many and i didnt had the time to read most of them.

So here i ll just say my personal opionio w/o knowing exactly what the people be4 me said.

I play WoW for 4 years now and i believe that the new expansion is just a rewhamp of old things.

I mean that almost nothing is gonna change in the gameplay. Lets get the thing from start.

1) 2 new races. Races in wow doesnt make any difference , its just how ur character looks. The racials doesnt make ur character from any other character of the same class in the game.

 2) New battleground. This is something blizzard always does and like in the past its just something u ll like for a few days and then it will be just one more farming bg.

3) Flying in Azeroth. You ll just be able to fligh over the old regions like in Outlands and Northrend. Whats so exciting about it?

The only thing Blizzard is making progress in is the Lore. They giving wow a lot progress in wow Lore which will be interesting for like 1 month and the it will be a routine again like it is now.

What i mean in generally is that Blizzard could make so many changes and make wow such a huge mmo.

But no. They are just adding things wich impress people for a while and after the game will become once again an endless FARM FARM FARM FARM.

I mean they are not changing . You will still have to farm for emblems, farm for honor, farm for gold, farm for reputation.

And i can assure you, no1 likes the farming in wow but all do it cause they have to in order to stay top in the game.

Ofc even the new expansion is not gonna be good, wow still will be the MMO with the most subscribers. Nothing will change till Blizzard will start promoting a new MMO , which i think will happen in like 3-4 years.

I think its quite simple if your bored with the game give it up now like i ve done and try something else . Dont stay in it in the hope this expansion will make everything right in a year or so . The chances are after a couple of months you experiance the new content and think it was a let down . As most of us did with the wrath of the lich king .

To me this sounds like more of the same . The one thing it might do is repopulate the old zones which have been dead in recent years . I dont see this expansion tackling any of the things that made me give up warcraft . I ll keep an open mind to it but with other games like starwars being released around the same a game thats 6 years old might look a very dated by that time ( lets face it wow really is showing its age now anyway) .

Unless of course theres a graphics engine update in the offering as well . Now that would really revamp the game and maybe make it worth another look . But revamped areas with slighly different mobs and quests . a couple of new races offering the same sort of classes and basic quest models . new battlegrounds that noone will learn to play properly because honor is so easily earned and a few gimiks thrown in for good measure really is nothing more than we ve had with the last two expansions .

I know the fanbois are wetting themselves with anticipaton but come on when your really take a look at whats on offer it does nt change much .

Guild Wars 2 will be a cataclysm for the franchise of its own. In fact, it literally is a Cataclysm and has been said it will be for the past 2 years. I find it quite strange that the exact same story behind Guild Wars 2 is the story behind Cataclysm. So basically what I'm saying is - don't underestimate the new kid on the block that has previously proven itself.

But hey, I play GW and WoW and will enjoy both!

LoL yeah right. World of Warcraft has had it's time. The game is old and it is the same thing over and over and over again. People are looking for new things not just new expansions.

 I'll probably have to respec..for about the 10th time in 3 years when XPAC is released...that sux. The main thing I like is revamped areas..just how revamped remains to be seen.. the new races...meh.  I'm hyped.....could it suck?..sure.  What's ridiculous is people wondering how certain races can be certain classes...easy...it's a fantasy  world. There are bull men and dwarves and rotting cadavers walking and talking. Is it really so ridiculous to have a Tauren Paladin? Like I said on another post concerning nightelves using magic...it could be story related...it's a cataclysm that might have severely limited access to nature/elemental magics and those who are accustomed to such magic might have had no recourse but to find alternate  powers sources..merely to survive or continue fighting   and can't a Tauren have so much faith in a higher power that it bestows spectacular powers?....Can't an animate, sentient corpse use a bow & arrow and train a dog to fetch?