''Not this pitiful, bloated codfish I see before me. No! No! No! Peter Pan?'' ''My great and worthy opponent? No! No! No! Smee! Not this imposter I see before me.''

''He's an old, fat, grandpa man.''


Face It, there's nothing wrong with the MMORPG genre, It's the magic inside of each and everyone of us that's lost. Sure, there could be some improvements, but those perfect dream games won't do it either.

I remember when I was around 6 years old and I played mario bros for the Nintendo for the first time, I enjoyed myself so much, I had a blast playing those simplistic Nintendo games, as well growing up later on playing the snes and psx generation, with a subtle layer of added complexity. And Ultima Online when I was around 12-13, and then Everquest and a couple years after that Final Fantasy XI. All of those games were far from perfect, but I really had a good time playing.

If anything, the problem is the majority no longer wanting to play together, as in, It's purest essence, going on adventures, grouping, forgetting about gear and lvls and just playing the game with each other and having fun. MMORPG's in this gen seem to have become these heavy solo single player games with MMORPG gameplay tacked on, and the developers are just giving what the players want. It's sad that It has come to this.


                                                                             ''Why Peter, you've become a Pirate.''


                                    

Originally posted by NeverLand7

It's sad that It has come to this.

For you, maybe. I sympathise to a degree, but I prefer soloing or sometimes just teaming up in a duo or trio with RL friends. 

Maybe it is because for many years the only RPG computer games available were solo, off-line games and I got used to that style of play. 

Maybe it's because I can't be bothered to waste time seeking other players who are doing the same quests as me, at the same stage of the quest chain I am, at the same time as me, in the correct zone, with the right amount of time to devote to the quest(s) and who won't go /afk while mummy serves them a meal.

Maybe it's because way too many players are immature (I don't mean "young" by that, btw) and all but inarticulate

For me, it's a mixture of all three in varying proportions

A while back, I actually grouped for a while, just to see what this much-vaunted 'grouping' adds to the game...  Well, grouped we may have been, but I doubt the entire group exchanged more than a few short sentences in the 20 minutes we were together. I may as well have been playing with NPC henchmen for all the interaction there was!  I think I'll pass, thanks all the same.

Originally posted by NeverLand7

                                                                                

''Not this pitiful, bloated codfish I see before me. No! No! No! Peter Pan?'' ''My great and worthy opponent? No! No! No! Smee! Not this imposter I see before me.''

''He's an old, fat, grandpa man.''
 

You cant kill people, what a waste of time! Sure you can ignore them to death, but simulated life isn't the same unless you can plan out a homicide.

Originally posted by Dibdabs

Originally posted by NeverLand7

It's sad that It has come to this.

Fir you, maybe. I sympathise to a degree, but I prefer soloing or sometimes just teaming up in a duo or trio with RL friends. 

Maybe it is because for many years the only RPG computer games available were solo, off-line games and I got used to that style of play. 

Maybe it's because I can't be bothered to waste time seeking other players who are doing the same quests as me, at the same stage of the quest chain I am, at the same time as me, in the correct zone, with the right amount of time to devote to the quest(s) and who won't go /afk while mummy serves them a meal.

Maybe it's because way too many players are immature (I don't mean "young" by that, btw) and all but inarticulate

For me, it's a mixture of all three in varying proportions

A while back, I actually grouped for a while, just to see what this much-vaunted 'grouping' adds to the game...  Well, grouped we may have been, but I doubt the entire group exchanged more than a few short sentences in the 20 minutes we were together. I may as well have been playing with NPC henchmen for all the interaction there was!  I think I'll pass, thanks all the same.

I also grew up on SRPG's, but if I want to play heavy solo, I would rather play a SRPG. To me, that's not what MMORPG's are about. The strength of this genre in my humble opinion, is a virtual fantasy world that comes to life through player interactivity and congruency, while having the core components of the game design enhance these attributes.

Blame that on poor game design, game designs that are based around dividing the player base into levels, gear and acquired skills, It doesn't have to be entirely that way, but It seems when a gamer wants a game to play, they'll eat anything that's put on their plate.

It's funny how Ultima Online is an ancient MMORPG, but in It's prime time it was more ''MMO RPG" than pretty much most games in this genre. It had a very lively community and strong player interactivity. The world was full of character, adventure and magic and so were the players.
 

 Great post! Got to admit you bringing up peter pan and having the name Neverland sorta creeped me out but other than that great post.

Definitely true of a lot of gamers.

Someone who's new to MMORPGs today has a drastically superior game experience to someone who was new to MMORPG years ago.

A lot of players lack this perspective on things, and only sit and wonder why all the games suck when the games have gotten better and better all along but their familiarity with them was the thing that changed.

Originally posted by Dibdabs

Maybe it is because for many years the only RPG computer games available were solo, off-line games and I got used to that style of play.

I must respectfully disagree with this statement.  I too have been playing single player rpg's for a long time before I picked up mmos and one of the major reasons I really took to the mmo genre was because after countless years of thinking "how cool would this be if I could have a buddy or 2 along for this adventure" I can now have it.  Generally for me, things are always better when I can share the adventure with someone rather then just tell them about it later.

Originally posted by beeker255

 Great post! Got to admit you bringing up peter pan and having the name Neverland sorta creeped me out but other than that great post.

Welcome back to Neverland.

Originally posted by NeverLand7

The strength of this genre in my humble opinion, is a virtual fantasy world that comes to life through player interactivity and congruency, while having the core components of the game design enhance these attributes.

My point exactly, when I described the group I was with.  There wasn't ANY interactivity going on, and, as I said, I might as well have been grouping with NPC henchmen. Yup, big incentive to group there all right! I really think the rosy impression people have about grouping is just very selective memory and a nostalgia for games about 9 or 10 years ago - heck, even I can sometimes think back and say how good it was to group in those days, when I know it wasn't.  They forget that out of 10 groups, 1 or 2 might have been fun, the rest were non-events at best and at worst, utter disasters filled with non-stop blame assignment and whining over loot.

I like the fact that an MMO has a thriving economy, scripted events on public holidays and items looted or made by other players I can buy from at the Bazaar/Auction House, but until group mechanics are seriously overhauled, I won't waste my time by splitting my xp, gold/plat/isk, quest drops and normal loot with monosyllabic players who are surplus to my requirements. 

I think the big problem isen't that the magic is gone but that most mmos of today are focused on a mush younger audiance. The only game that has felt fresh for me after years of playing is EvE. And that game focuses on a mush older demographic of players. In a static game world where the only thing you can change is your personal gear, everything will eventually become boring and repetetive.

We just need more games that focus on older gamers 25+. Think the reason so many games have tanked the last few years is that they have been to similar to what hase gone before.

 I think one of the big problems now days is that new generation MMO RPG games try to focus on both PvP and PvE  and balance them, IMHO they should just focus on pvp or pve, and keep the people who likes that style of gaming happy.I  think this would be risky for most companies tought.

I to fail to get that "feeling" i had when started MMO´s on new generation games, personally .I played many mmo , and my favorite was ffxi since it kept the good old rpg feel to it, and forced you to group before the latest expansions-updates, now is more solo friendly, at least to EXP.

I belive people who feel like the OP and myself , should wait , stay out of mmo and wait a while until this genre breaks from the never ending loop of "more of the same" we have on the catalog of mmos at this time and day, or just give up on mmos ,If we whant to have that "feeling" again that is.

Myself,i problably will wait couple of years ,(unless a good PVE comes out , witch i doubt) when my baby girl growns up ill try to play a game with her =) i should be on my 30s-35 by then XD,is the standar age for gamers acording to that other tread ^^.

Skieve

PS: my grammar sucks , so please excuse me , im spanish. thank you.

Rather, i would say with each new generation of mmorpgs, the target audience is switching from patient mature rpg non-casual gamer to the anti-challenge, impatient, low attention span casual gamer. 

The result ends up meaning smaller worlds, less features, more image saturation and most importantly less thinking.

WoW is a great example. Its targeted towards a vague and wide majority. During its initial release, there were dungeons in which only the best and most skilled players, after tons of practice, could complete. It was a very time consuming challenge, but a challenge none the less. It required a skilled and perfectly organized group of 40 players all playing their role perfectly, reacting to the plan and after trial and error, succeeding at what seemed impossible.

Then the majority of unskilled players, the impatient, and even short attention spanned types, complained that they cant have the same reward. Blizzard eventually caved in and got rid of the challenge.

What does this show? A thing called entitlement. The casual groups and solo players feel entitled to everything a game has to offer, regardless of time or requirements set by the developers to achieve it.

I personally like to solo as well, but I would never in a million years feel entitled to a group required reward, much less one that I did not struggle to earn.

Thus we are seeing a shift in target audience and the selling points of this self entitled majority. I dont blame the developers completely though... mmorpgs are not cheap to make and maintain, going where the money is, is completely understandable. The issue i have now is, how do they cater to both groups while still putting their foot down and not caving into casual player demands of entitlement.

 Very well said , altought i do not share your opinion about soloing, but is all about taste.

To me a MMO is a game for grouping, ,but todays standars are that your able to solo all your exp and not a lot of space for grouping.I have had the most fun  when learning a class and their roles in a group more than just going for a particular goal.I learned to lead groups  on all MMos i played, and trying new strategies for diferent kind of scenarios or enemies is always been a blast as well, especially, when is new content and there isnt a online guide YET you can follow like is usually the case nowdays.

The road is always the fun part , not the destination, i like to say.

Also like you said, this games keeps geting easier and easier,i need a high degree of dificulty on the games i play in order to have fun, online or not.

I do not like pvp so i cant say anythin good of bad about that side. Honestly never liked the idea of rpg + pvp mixed together but it can be fun for a bit.

I understand why the companies are doing this,they go where the majority is , and where the money is, but i cant help it to complain since i belong to the minority that doesnt like were this is heading.

Idk i just belong to a diying breed of gamers i supouse,

MMO's are a way to recapture your youth, not allow you to grow old and continue to enjoy the adventure!

 im only 24 who you calling old !