Originally posted by Rhoklaw

Originally posted by Bureyku

Well I don't like MMORPG's that enforce fair fights.  MMORPG's are supposed to be living breathing virtual worlds with adventure, intrigue, treasures, great creatures, etc. etc.

If factions are at war fights should break out across the world.  They should happen dynamically and not be planned.  The thing is there will almost never be a perfectly fair and even fight and that is how it should be.  Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes you fall to unbeatable odds, and sometimes you gather allies and defeat unbeatable odds.  That is how I think it should be.

BG's, Arena, enforced fair fights are all shallow concepts and I don't think they belong in MMORPG's at all outside of mini games.  They help to turn MMORPG's more into shallow arcade games than truly epic living breathing worlds. 

All that aside there needs to be a law system/slayer system/murder system or something in place to alleviate ganking.  This is a good system and just needs tweaks. Also i'm not a hardcore PvP'er and I don't ever use the word carebear (except for right now).  My favorite game of all time is FFXI, and I am a frothing fanboy of FFXIV.  Still fair fights, bg's, arenas, etc. are a joke and don't belong in MMORPG's.  They help make MMORPG's the exact opposite of what they could be.

 

Unfortunately, the only thing not static in MMO's is the players. If there isn't any set guidelines or rules to control them, the game becomes unfair for casual players who will never compete with hardcore gamers. MMO's should be fair to all types of players and open ended full blore PvP does not belong in MMO's for that very reason. This is where the misconception comes from that lumps casual players into being carebears. I for one have a job that takes up a lot of my time each week while others get mommy and daddy to pay for their stuff. So, because I don't level as quickly as some due to real life time constraints, I'm labeled a carebear? Forgive me for wanting a fair fight which actually tests my PvP skills. If you want to go gank lowbies all day, seek a mental health specialist and explain to them why you enjoy it so much.

PvP isn't for you.  Try HKO?

Originally posted by Soupism

Exactly. Most people who shout out "carebear" with any sort of disdain are usually an elitist flavor of the month type of juvenile. Not to say excessive whining isn't carebear or that there isn't a reason to use the term... but just snapping off with it as a knee jerk reaction is the quickest way to show your colors.

Typically it's a bully mentality that gives the impression of needing to show off, as opposed to a professional fighter who flat out doesn't care, will go 1v1 against anyone because well, that's what they do. True pvp'ers (not necessarily duelers) understand this and don't need to show disdain for a system they are comfortable with.

Whatever.  PvP comes in all shapes and sizes - learn to live with it, or go and play Tetris.

When PVP turns into your main focal point to anything in game it either A proves your a retard cause honestly, you care more to alienate people? One thing to have a good match it's another when it comes to belittling people. Push everyone in the dirt and eventually you end up with something equivalent to Daikatana Online. Got your little cluster fuck of morons who are afraid of anything outside there little world. You have to hack and macro spam your way to the top. Why do you think most games don't do like Diablo anymore. Players get much control they abuse it.

This system doesnt kill rift pvp, it just stops douchebags from hitting max level then ganking level 20s cause they are to cowardly to fight people their own level.

Its designed to stop griefing.

Originally posted by Bureyku

Well I don't like MMORPG's that enforce fair fights.  MMORPG's are supposed to be living breathing virtual worlds with adventure, intrigue, treasures, great creatures, etc. etc.

If factions are at war fights should break out across the world.  They should happen dynamically and not be planned.  The thing is there will almost never be a perfectly fair and even fight and that is how it should be.  Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes you fall to unbeatable odds, and sometimes you gather allies and defeat unbeatable odds.  That is how I think it should be.

BG's, Arena, enforced fair fights are all shallow concepts and I don't think they belong in MMORPG's at all outside of mini games.  They help to turn MMORPG's more into shallow arcade games than truly epic living breathing worlds. 

All that aside there needs to be a law system/slayer system/murder system or something in place to alleviate ganking.  This is a good system and just needs tweaks. Also i'm not a hardcore PvP'er and I don't ever use the word carebear (except for right now).  My favorite game of all time is FFXI, and I am a frothing fanboy of FFXIV.  Still fair fights, bg's, arenas, etc. are a joke and don't belong in MMORPG's.  They help make MMORPG's the exact opposite of what they could be.

Its a society problem I think, I am in my 40's now and have no problem with someone 10+ lvls above me killing me, I accept this as part of the gameplay in Warcraft.  If you take it away and make the world much safer then I lose intrest very quickly.  I love questing in a dangerous world where high lvl players may or may not be out looking for easy kills, I love the whole concept of having to look over my shoulder when questing and if a ganker comes along then gathering a few guys together and killing him is great. 
 

But look no further than the schools of today, they are all promoting fairness, if you enter a race and come last you get a medal, as it's the taking part thats important, what a load of shit.  Thats why we have all the whiners saying am not playing as it's not fair, I can't win, well thats tough, life is not fair.  Society is brainwashing these morons that everything should be all fair and even, most people of my generation don't give a shit, we were brought up in a way that allows us to deal with losing. 

When I walk down my local shop I know I could be stabbed, thats life, deal with it.  No matter how big and tough I am, if some chav sticks me in the back I am screwed.  And I want a game thats dangerous and realistic (as far as a fantasy game can be realistic ofc) Realistic in that the world is not run by fixed boundries, this is why WAR failed, they introduced the stupid chicking dynamic.  If it's a true MMORPG then there should be no rules at all other than making start zones safe so people can lvl up, after that though it should be all open and everyone keep yourt eyes open.  PvP and PvE server should be set up to make sure the people that cry can go PvE and the PvP guys like myself can quest in fun, gank or be ganked.

I too enjoy the idea of constant threat, unfortunately for me I am not very good at PvP (partly why this game interested me - if we're constantly PvP-ing I'm bound to get better right?). Because of this I do like to have some areas where it is PvE only so I can play and train up without fear of being completely destroyed by some guy 10 lvls higher than me (which also poses the question- what happens when you start a new character a few months after launch and everyone has got to lvl 50- won't you just get murdered?) 

I completely understand the punishment system in place but I was wondering - is there ANYWHERE that a player can go and not be attacked by players from the other faction (towns or something..?)

Originally posted by Spaceweed10

Originally posted by Soupism

Exactly. Most people who shout out "carebear" with any sort of disdain are usually an elitist flavor of the month type of juvenile. Not to say excessive whining isn't carebear or that there isn't a reason to use the term... but just snapping off with it as a knee jerk reaction is the quickest way to show your colors.

Typically it's a bully mentality that gives the impression of needing to show off, as opposed to a professional fighter who flat out doesn't care, will go 1v1 against anyone because well, that's what they do. True pvp'ers (not necessarily duelers) understand this and don't need to show disdain for a system they are comfortable with.

 

Whatever.  PvP comes in all shapes and sizes - learn to live with it, or go and play Tetris.

LOL hit a nerve did I? And yes, I "learned to live with it" as I like pvp. I'm just not one of those types that hang around chokepoints griefing people. I'd rather find you as an equal level (not really YOU although could be =P) and obliterate, or be obliterated. 1-2 levels, even 5, is fine. Not everyone is equal and I'm ok with that (like class balances is a failed argument imo) but I also detest bully tactics, especially when that player thinks they are good, or even cool. "i r pwned j00" bullshit.

Sir, we could turn that around and say that Pvp'ers won't be happy until thay can gank us while we are still creating our characters.

Good thing I'm playing the beta, or whatever it is, this weeken.  I am so not a PvPer.  If it gets in my way I'll know not to get a monthly subscription!

What happens when zergs of players levels 40-50 start marauding through the 20 zones? I shudder at the image of leveling brought to a complete stand-still for days on end in some areas and the balance of a server starts getting lopsided.

Well closed beta is over and I can tell you what being the target of rifters with out the slayer system is like.

There is this blur of red and if you look really fast you will see ??? for the levels [rarely traveling in one so its usually a pack].  Its fast , very very fast.  You basically get one shotted then they move on.  The good thing is you don't get the nasty death penalty from getting killed by a mob.  However if your not bound in the area your gonna be loosing some serious cash as transport to teir 3 isnt cheap.

There is no combat involved in pking lowbies.   Only a moron would  even call it pvp.    There is still plenty of room in teir 3 Aion zones for exploits , griefing and such so yes do expect more restrictions or creative punishments.   Its all going to come down to how fare the majority of the rifters play.   Push the envelope and things happen.   That's a life lesson , in game and out.

I saw rifters camping quest NPCs , binding stones, flight points, and passage ways that every one had to go though.  The last imo is actually a viable tactic though and eventually results in some real pvp fun with potential wins for both sides.   If some cant enjoy pvp with out killing players who can not defend them selves then they are not a pvper , their just a nyerk.   So relax and enjoy fighting with some challenge.  Many might find they even like it.  

There are games out there that are almost purely open pvp.  No reason not to play them if that's what some like.

Well it's official that open beta will kick off with version 1.5 including the slayer system.

Griefing is my main problem with level based games these days mainly because levels mean everything and lowbies have absolutely no way to fight back simply because they have a lower playtime.

It has nothing to do with how hardcore you think you are, or being under constant threat, its just plain lame when a 40 sin pops out and 1 shots a 20 who is fighting a quest mob over and over and over. That level 20 could be the most skilled player in the world, but it means absolutely nothing when playtime = power.

I can deal with fighting someone who is stronger and I have a disadvantage, but when a FULL GROUP has next to zero chance of even hitting someone a few levels higher, where is the fun? I would rather see a system where the high level keeps their gear and whatnot, but their evasion / armor / health gets debuffed due to dishonor to actually make a fight worth having.

I guess its difficult to design a 'fun for all' pvp system in a largely pve level based environment, so I am glad to see Aion doing something about griefing even if it is highly artificial. In the end I guess I am just looking for a darkfall that is actually good.

I like to pvp but some days I just want to get home and chill out killing some fluffy bunnykins in a pve zone.

I like to think of these 'anti grief' mechanics in MMO's as a virtual Geneva convention. You kill unarmed soldiers who are unable to protect themselves it's a crime. Sure you will get away with it sometimes but, do it too often, you will get caught. At this point you will be charged with murder and punished. As many armed forces have not actually abolished the death penalty, I thin NCSoft are being quite fair and lenient in this implementation.

To those who think there is no place for pve in a pvp game and if everyone buggers off leaving enough players for one server will be ok, it won't. NC are a business and if all they have is 20k pvpers they shut the game and you all go back 'to other games'

I like both pvp and pve and love to have both available, I also love the feeling of danger while pveing but I would not join a guild that condoned camping lowbies as it is just plain lame and only hurts the game.

This sounds like a great system, and Im happy to see there is some kind of discouragement on higher level players killing the lower levels constantly. I am not a great pvp'r but really look forward to trying it out with this game. I truely hope it works out the way intended.

Exactly how many kills do you get before you get penalised?

It could be 20... or 100.  Makes a big difference on the effectiveness of the system and the satisfaction of the PvPrs.