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Originally posted by Vinterkrig
listen princess, i know it won't.. i could give a care less about the game, i'm simply being a troll , though what i say holds truth to 95% of WoW players and the expansion isn't that big, you guys are making it out to be alot more then what it actually is
Downplaying this will make you very trolly indeed. "Hey, the new WOW is just a redone landscape with a few zones and holes to fill in textures." Hey this is a videogame with a monitor, a keyboard and some colors.....
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Originally posted by Vinterkrig Relax, cupcake. What I like or dislike will not affect you one bit, I assure you. Plus, unlike some here apparently, I'm physically able to keep an open mind without it exploding.
listen princess, i know it won't.. i could give a care less about the game, i'm simply being a troll , though what i say holds truth to 95% of WoW players and the expansion isn't that big, you guys are making it out to be alot more then what it actually is
You binary thinkers are a funny lot. It's either savage hatred or rabid fanboyism with you. The very notion that someone can like some parts, dislike others, and still manage to squeeze out some enjoyment, or in this case, anticipation, causes your brain to fry. You're intellectually incapable of dealing with that, so you have to assign a blanket title to the entire thing in order for you to be able to ridicule it. Keep it up! This amuses me. "You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous |
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Originally posted by Zorndorf
Downplaying this will make you very trolly indeed. "Hey, the new WOW is just a redone landscape with a few zones and holes to fill in textures." Hey this is a videogame with a monitor, a keyboard and some colors.....
wow is wow, landscape doesn't change that i think the game isn't fun, to each is own on that its a marketing thing, games getting desolate in the lower level areas you think the designers said, lets re-do the entire original zones from scratch? hell no, they modified content that was already there, ripped it up, filled in the gaps, re-textured shit.. i promise you that its not 100% new coding and modeling its probably more like 10% the genius behind it all is the fact that they said lets allow new race/class combinations, people will re-roll and that in turn will help new players have groups and meet people kudos to them, i could care less if wow lasts another 20 years, as far as a marketing scheme this is GIGANTIC, as far as actual work, its not so big, i'm sorry if it upsets you, but its the honest truth Playing: LFD2 |
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I'm neither a fanboy nor a hater. Played WoW for many years, currently I don't, simply because there was nothing that would really motivate me. I got mixed feelings about the expansion. Negative ones would be: But the most prominent thought in my mind about this subject is:
Edit: I just noticed this is my second post here since half a decade. XD If I keep this speed up, see you in 2014 :P |
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Originally posted by Vinterkrig
wow is wow, landscape doesn't change that i think the game isn't fun, to each is own on that its a marketing thing, games getting desolate in the lower level areas you think the designers said, lets re-do the entire original zones from scratch? hell no, they modified content that was already there, ripped it up, filled in the gaps, re-textured shit.. i promise you that its not 100% new coding and modeling its probably more like 10% the genius behind it all is the fact that they said lets allow new race/class combinations, people will re-roll and that in turn will help new players have groups and meet people kudos to them, i could care less if wow lasts another 20 years, as far as a marketing scheme this is GIGANTIC, as far as actual work, its not so big, i'm sorry if it upsets you, but its the honest truth
Just one example: To make a zone 3D fly-able means it takes around 3 times more resources to accomplish this. Instead of "fake" 3D/2D borders to create mountains that can't be surpassed, you DO need to redo the original code from scratch. BTW, that's one of the reasons ... AoC, WAR, LotrO don't have ANY free flying in their lands AND why Aion only has limited zones where you can stretch the wings. Underwater worlds is just an extra that is skipped by those MMO's (just to save money ... and development time...) Earlier discussions with Blizzard developpers showed that creating FULL 3D passable landscapes takes indeed 3 times more money to create. So if that's not "big" to you, no problem, it shows you don't have a clue of world designs and just how costly it is to make it FULL 3D without loading screens or the dreadful "zoning". |
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Everyone hates the top dog :) its not a new thing. Why do u think the Yankees are called "The Evil Empire" (granted thats kinda old and they are not as good as they used to be)
Anyways as for the the expansion I think they did a great job with deciding to rework the old world instead of adding new areas. The old world was already a dead zone so why not just reuse it to mold it to something that people will revisit and have fun once again. An evolving World is always more fun then a stationary one. As far as the dificulty the designers may or may have not faced... once u got the graphics engine and all your designers pros at using it it is pretty simple to add new terain/or characters. It does not matter if it is completly new or change the old ones. Good move on Blizzards side keeping WoW interesting, just when you think you have a wow killer they take that WoW and change it just enough so it evades harm :). I doubt well see a game that will hold more subsciptions then WoW at least untill their new MMO comes out and they decide to let WoW die. |
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Originally posted by Zorndorf
Just one example: To make a zone 3D fly-able means it takes around 3 times more resources to accomplish this. Instead of "fake" 3D/2D borders to create mountains that can't be surpassed, you DO need to redo the original code from scratch. BTW, that's one of the reasons ... AoC, WAR, LotrO don't have ANY free flying in their lands AND why Aion only has limited zones where you can stretch the wings. Underwater worlds is just an extra that is skipped by those MMO's (just to save money ... and development time...) Earlier discussions with Blizzard developpers showed that creating FULL 3D passable landscapes takes indeed 3 times more money to create. So if that's not "big" to you, no problem, it shows you don't have a clue of world designs and just how costly it is to make it FULL 3D without loading screens or the dreadful "zoning".
negative lol and daoc had underwater worlds in 2003, with a much smaller dev team then the games you listed... jus saying , free flying doesn't fit into most of the lore of the games you speak of if any at all (i'm no expert, i may be wrong on 1 of them) and as far as aion, i think ncsoft is just a shitty company that put in a feature here and there to limit their work, and make the most possible profit with the time involved regardless neither of us will get any push on each others opinions, so it is what it is <3 Playing: LFD2 |
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Originally posted by Vinterkrig
Just one example: To make a zone 3D fly-able means it takes around 3 times more resources to accomplish this. Instead of "fake" 3D/2D borders to create mountains that can't be surpassed, you DO need to redo the original code from scratch. BTW, that's one of the reasons ... AoC, WAR, LotrO don't have ANY free flying in their lands AND why Aion only has limited zones where you can stretch the wings. Underwater worlds is just an extra that is skipped by those MMO's (just to save money ... and development time...) Earlier discussions with Blizzard developpers showed that creating FULL 3D passable landscapes takes indeed 3 times more money to create. So if that's not "big" to you, no problem, it shows you don't have a clue of world designs and just how costly it is to make it FULL 3D without loading screens or the dreadful "zoning".
negative lol and daoc had underwater worlds in 2003, with a much smaller dev team then the games you listed... jus saying , free flying doesn't fit into most of the lore of the games you speak of if any at all (i'm no expert, i may be wrong on 1 of them) and as far as aion, i think ncsoft is just a shitty company that put in a feature here and there to limit their work, and make the most possible profit with the time involved regardless neither of us will get any push on each others opinions, so it is what it is <3
Being an avid DAoC player and having played since release I can comment on this, you seem to have confirmed what he was saying, as DAoC did have a waterworld in 2003 yes, but trials of atlantis added a completley new continent in which this "water world" was ( and was made from scratch ). Remind you, although swimming was allowed in this new zone, in the classic DAoC water was still NOT able to support underwater swimming. S H A D O W H A N D
Played - All mainstream MMORPGS/Many others. Favorites- Dark Age of Camelot/mordred,Shadowbane , Old school Ultima Online |
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I'm quite stoked for the expansion, as it's addressing a number of the concerns I've had with WoW over the past few months. The main concern was that of Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms effectively feeling dead and rather useless. The two continents simply lost the charm and appeal they used to have.
It's great Blizzard aren't creating yet another continent for high level players to further spread out players in the game. I look forward to seeing high and low level characters alike running around, playing both new and old content that was greatly designed and is currently going to such waste.   |
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Originally posted by Shadowhand
negative lol and daoc had underwater worlds in 2003, with a much smaller dev team then the games you listed... jus saying , free flying doesn't fit into most of the lore of the games you speak of if any at all (i'm no expert, i may be wrong on 1 of them) and as far as aion, i think ncsoft is just a shitty company that put in a feature here and there to limit their work, and make the most possible profit with the time involved regardless neither of us will get any push on each others opinions, so it is what it is <3
Being an avid DAoC player and having played since release I can comment on this, you seem to have confirmed what he was saying, as DAoC did have a waterworld in 2003 yes, but trials of atlantis added a completley new continent in which this "water world" was ( and was made from scratch ). Remind you, although swimming was allowed in this new zone, in the classic DAoC water was still NOT able to support underwater swimming.
you don't say? and then they updated all the other water in the game with the same thing, no big deal... new frontiers was a bigger expansion then this, shit TOA was huge and way more work then this expansion Playing: LFD2 |
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Originally posted by Shadowhand
You MEAN,technological limits of the Warcraft engine ,don't you?That engine is so far behind the rest of the gaming world it is not funny.Square Enix has spent their money over the last several years upping their tech of their engine,while Blizzard continues to show NO effort in raising their standards or give anything back to their fanbase.So now even the ancient FFXI engine is going to leave the warcraft engine as maybe the cheapest product out there amongst legit games. You know of course ,reading into their OWN PR marketing hype about the expansion is "GOING to ROCK WOW" is foolish.Do you expect them to say anything else? They are basically doing something ,VERY similar as to what FFXI did in what i called one their laziest expansions ever.They are just taking already in place maps,zones and just going to rework them.This takes VERY little effort,and NO you will not be getting any new technical advancements in gaming,Warcraft is ancient,the engine is ancient and frankly Blizzard has no ability to CREATE NEW ideas.Their lack of creativity and their ALWAYS cheap approach,is why this design works for Blizzard,but not for the fans.However i think it has been VERY obvious that WOW fans have become bored[they frequent all other games lately],so Blizzard could feed them pretty much anything and they will be all over it. I am MOST interested to hear ,what the fans who are all excited,actually think this is going to deliver for "new" OR "creative"?Other than just buying into Blizzard's usual PR hype?2 new races?yep FFXI did the same thing in the EXACT same type of expansion,i really do not see the same hype ,so many others are gaining from this.Geesh if i wasn't sold into Blizzard copying SOE,i would swear this idea stems from FFXI's expansion of a couple years ago,that would be just about the right amount of time to do it as well...hmmm.
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Originally posted by Vinterkrig
negative lol and daoc had underwater worlds in 2003, with a much smaller dev team then the games you listed... jus saying , free flying doesn't fit into most of the lore of the games you speak of if any at all (i'm no expert, i may be wrong on 1 of them) and as far as aion, i think ncsoft is just a shitty company that put in a feature here and there to limit their work, and make the most possible profit with the time involved regardless neither of us will get any push on each others opinions, so it is what it is <3
Being an avid DAoC player and having played since release I can comment on this, you seem to have confirmed what he was saying, as DAoC did have a waterworld in 2003 yes, but trials of atlantis added a completley new continent in which this "water world" was ( and was made from scratch ). Remind you, although swimming was allowed in this new zone, in the classic DAoC water was still NOT able to support underwater swimming.
you don't say? and then they updated all the other water in the game with the same thing, no big deal... new frontiers was a bigger expansion then this, shit TOA was huge and way more work then this expansion Yeah :P And I know they fixed the water =D I was just using that release point to prove Zorn's point.And no NF/ToA were not in the same scope as this, ToA was considered a let down by the players in terms of content ect, many consider this the downfall of DAoC. ToA was a big expansion yes,Before release it was hyped a lot yes, but no where near the size/magnitude of Catacylsm, I don't even have to mention NF, the closest expansion DAoC had that had similarities would have to be Catacombs I would think. ToA just added ML/arti raids and an underwater Continent, and took the games PVP to hell. Who knows Catacylsm might be in the same boat as ToA and bring WoW to its knees, I'm just saying the expansions are not comparable :P S H A D O W H A N D
Played - All mainstream MMORPGS/Many others. Favorites- Dark Age of Camelot/mordred,Shadowbane , Old school Ultima Online |
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Originally posted by Wizardry
You MEAN,technological limits of the Warcraft engine ,don't you?That engine is so far behind the rest of the gaming world it is not funny.Square Enix has spent their money over the last several years upping their tech of their engine,while Blizzard continues to show NO effort in raising their standards or give anything back to their fanbase.So now even the ancient FFXI engine is going to leave the warcraft engine as maybe the cheapest product out there amongst legit games. You know of course ,reading into their OWN PR marketing hype about the expansion is "GOING to ROCK WOW" is foolish.Do you expect them to say anything else? They are basically doing something ,VERY similar as to what FFXI did in what i called one their laziest expansions ever.They are just taking already in place maps,zones and just going to rework them.This takes VERY little effort,and NO you will not be getting any new technical advancements in gaming,Warcraft is ancient,the engine is ancient and frankly Blizzard has no ability to CREATE NEW ideas.Their lack of creativity and their ALWAYS cheap approach,is why this design works for Blizzard,but not for the fans.However i think it has been VERY obvious that WOW fans have become bored[they frequent all other games lately],so Blizzard could feed them pretty much anything and they will be all over it. I am MOST interested to hear ,what the fans who are all excited,actually think this is going to deliver for "new" OR "creative"?Other than just buying into Blizzard's usual PR hype?2 new races?yep FFXI did the same thing in the EXACT same type of expansion,i really do not see the same hype ,so many others are gaining from this.Geesh if i wasn't sold into Blizzard copying SOE,i would swear this idea stems from FFXI's expansion of a couple years ago,that would be just about the right amount of time to do it as well...hmmm.
No, I meant the technological limits of "current" mmorpg's I was just saying that so he wouldn't give me an unrealistic idea for an mmorpg expansion. S H A D O W H A N D
Played - All mainstream MMORPGS/Many others. Favorites- Dark Age of Camelot/mordred,Shadowbane , Old school Ultima Online |
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So they are reskinning a few zones. Adding in raids and making a couple classic heroics. Opening the gates is ok and fine and the new races arent very interesting without adding some classes. I dont know...seems lazy but thats just me. I dont hate or love WOW just observing here but I would consider this groundbreaking or even good right now until more is released. |
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Originally posted by Stuckov I think you are over simplifying it.For one i don't hate the Yankees,i hate the way they are allowed to outspend everyone else,the whole MLB has become a money war,rather than any legit sport.The concept of winning by outspending is what i don't like about MLB,not the yankees,as they are not alone,Boston,Anaheim a few teams far outspend the rest of the league. As for this expansion,it is actually a VERY weak concept,one that is borderline an exact ripoff idea from what FFXI did in their expansion a couple years ago.Guess what Blizzard is known for copying and the time line of about 2 years ,seems perfect for them to pull off this expansion. The only difference between the two is that Square sent their game into the past ,to a time of STRIFE,Blizzard is doing the EXACT same thing only into the future.Really other than the timeline,the expansions are identical.This type of exapnsion takes VERY little effort to pull off.I actually criticized Square for this same type of expansion,it is a very lazy and cheap approach.Guess what Square also introduced two new classes,go figure how much this resembles the same approach and design for an expansion. I am sorry but the hype behind this expansion far outweighs it's actual concept and design.I can also see the design approach,as it would take a MUCH smaller team than the normal 50-100,as they have alotted staff into SC2 and their new MMO.This type of expansion would take a team of about 20,create some new hype,try to keep the money roilling in,by once again spending VERY little effort,nice ceo move but not one i agree is good for the game or the fans. There wil lbe nothing new for technical advancements,the warcraft engine is ancient. |
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Laughing-man
 Advanced Member
Joined: 4/23/09
I thought what I'd do is I'd pretend I was one of those Deaf-mutes. |
Originally posted by parrotpholk
They're also redesigning all the quests in the game. Changing an entire game from the inside out hardly seems small to me... This is far larger than the frontiers free booster that DAoC did, remodeling one large zone is not nearly as complex as redeisgning their game from the ground up. Redoing multiple classes to be entirely different, changing the landscapes and quests you have to do to level, redoing the crafting system... Every single complaint that the community has was addressed wtih this being released. They actually listened. |
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Apologies if this has aleady been discussed here - if it has, I couldn't find an example of it... Blizzard is very fond of the "phasing" that they introduced in the Lich King. Unless they've specificly explained otherwise, I imagine that the reworking of these zones in Azeroth will be phased, ie, a basicly modified duplication of the exisitng zone. This will mean that they will not have to touch their thousands of pre-existing quests, and the level 1-to 60 experience will not be altered in any way. Its a timeline thing. They simply phase in the post-Cataclysm zones for players who have (for example) already leveled to 80. Phasing solves every problem that altering existing zones in an otherwise non-dynamic gameworld would, with the exception of a shared sense of reality with other players: "Click on the vendor to repair. Why can't you see it? You're right on top of it! Are you blind?" "Maybe. Or perhaps you exist in the future and myself in the past and our voices are being broadcasted through the space-time continuum. Either way, my brain is melting and my gear is still red." I'll be nonplussed and eating all of my many hats if they actually permenantly alter the existing Azeroth, because of the nightmare of re-writing all those vanilla quests. But we'll see. |
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Originally posted by Lydon Now this part i agree 100% with.I never liked the idea of spreading out the population,alienating all the levels.However,with some good effort ,you can create NEW levels,and content and keep the common zones as through ways,The design of ALWAYS making NEW levels FURTHER away is just ridiculous. You can also bet Blizzard,with their lack of creativity,WILL create more instances for a NEW "Tier" of armour,it is pretty much all they know how to do,it is again,just like this expansion,very easy to pull off more instances. |
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Originally posted by Shadowhand
Being an avid DAoC player and having played since release I can comment on this, you seem to have confirmed what he was saying, as DAoC did have a waterworld in 2003 yes, but trials of atlantis added a completley new continent in which this "water world" was ( and was made from scratch ). Remind you, although swimming was allowed in this new zone, in the classic DAoC water was still NOT able to support underwater swimming.
you don't say? and then they updated all the other water in the game with the same thing, no big deal... new frontiers was a bigger expansion then this, shit TOA was huge and way more work then this expansion Yeah :P And I know they fixed the water =D I was just using that release point to prove Zorn's point.And no NF/ToA were not in the same scope as this, ToA was considered a let down by the players in terms of content ect, many consider this the downfall of DAoC. ToA was a big expansion yes,Before release it was hyped a lot yes, but no where near the size/magnitude of Catacylsm, I don't even have to mention NF, the closest expansion DAoC had that had similarities would have to be Catacombs I would think. ToA just added ML/arti raids and an underwater Continent, and took the games PVP to hell. Who knows Catacylsm might be in the same boat as ToA and bring WoW to its knees, I'm just saying the expansions are not comparable :P
ya, but my point is they didn't re-design all of the original zones/si zones/and anywhere else with water to add a water you could dive into and we aren't talking about let downs or players not liking the game, and i don't need your history of daoc, i played from day one with a breaks here and there, but more or less its entire life toa/nf were huge expansions, we are talking about size and content of expansions are we not? i mean otherwise we shouldn't be talking at all, because this wow expansion isn't out and whats known is very little. these aren't really game altering things blizzard is doing, unlike what daoc did, game altering, and it didn't work out... mainly because they tried to make the pve people happy and in turn most of the players didn't want all that pve (they would have been playing everquest) and your right, i shouldn't have let catacombs off the hook there, that changed the entire look of the game (which i still think looks great despite what people say about the graphics) raiding aside, DAoC still has more depth then WoW ever will, thats pretty bad considering its the end all be all of mmos according to everyone fact of the matter is, its a nice thing WoW is doing, changing the original zones, and its something more themepark MMOs should do to make it more interesting for re-rolls and new players, but the size of the content is minimal, this SHOULD be a free expansion Playing: LFD2 |
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Total cop-out! WoW has become a joke with this expansion. It's not enough to bring me back... I'm just kidding.. seriously though I have no desire to see areas that I've already leveled up in millions of times, re designed. Plus I doubt all areas will be drastically changed.. so I'm afriad vets will be disspointment, because all they can do is make yet ANOTHER alt or fly around and look at the difference.. that excitment will last a day or two. It's pretty cool when hear they are going to change everything.. but when you think about the reality of it.... meh. Playing: Aion |
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They do it again, the reason myself and most of my original guild stopped playing years ago As I understand from my friends who still play, Arthas still isnt even in the game yet.....and here they are announcing the next expansion. So I ask what is the point of even playing the game to get all that stuff, when this looms on the horizon and essentially all your stuff will be useless....I understand the business side, but from a game standpoint that kinda sucks WoW was one of the best and most fun games I ever played during its first few years, but I dunno, from an MMO perspective it just seems pointless to play if they are gunna keep rendering all your accomplishments obsolete. Playing : Aion, MO Played : EVE, GW, SB, DF, AoC, WoW, WaR, L1, L2 Loved: DAoC, EVE, SB, old WoW, L2 |
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Originally posted by Laughing-man
They're also redesigning all the quests in the game. Changing an entire game from the inside out hardly seems small to me... This is far larger than the frontiers free booster that DAoC did, remodeling one large zone is not nearly as complex as redeisgning their game from the ground up. Redoing multiple classes to be entirely different, changing the landscapes and quests you have to do to level, redoing the crafting system... Every single complaint that the community has was addressed wtih this being released. They actually listened.
I guess you didn't play DAOC then did you? NF wasn't a remodel because each Frontier zone was seperate and outside of your own realm reached by a teleportation pad. they made 3 extremely larger zones, had a connecting island (i think that came later?), diveable water, new mobs, new siege equipment, a revamped keep system, guard towers, teleporting keep paths, entirely new realm abilities which also effected class designs, that was altered so all in all, you are seriously mistaken at the largeness and major overhall NF was, try again Playing: LFD2 |
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Originally posted by Zorndorf
Just one example: To make a zone 3D fly-able means it takes around 3 times more resources to accomplish this. Instead of "fake" 3D/2D borders to create mountains that can't be surpassed, you DO need to redo the original code from scratch. BTW, that's one of the reasons ... AoC, WAR, LotrO don't have ANY free flying in their lands AND why Aion only has limited zones where you can stretch the wings. Underwater worlds is just an extra that is skipped by those MMO's (just to save money ... and development time...) Earlier discussions with Blizzard developpers showed that creating FULL 3D passable landscapes takes indeed 3 times more money to create. So if that's not "big" to you, no problem, it shows you don't have a clue of world designs and just how costly it is to make it FULL 3D without loading screens or the dreadful "zoning".
Zone art/terrain is not code. They have a huge jump on the zone art for the expansion being able to load the original and modifing it. 3 times more money and resources? grats on pulling that number out of your ass. And with that said, I'm not a wow player but I am impressed at the road they are going down. They are learning from some mistakes that EQ had. |
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Laughing-man
Advanced Member
Joined: 4/23/09
I thought what I'd do is I'd pretend I was one of those Deaf-mutes. |
Originally posted by Vinterkrig
I guess you didn't play DAOC then did you? NF wasn't a remodel because each Frontier zone was seperate and outside of your own realm reached by a teleportation pad. they made 3 extremely larger zones, had a connecting island (i think that came later?), diveable water, new mobs, new siege equipment, a revamped keep system, guard towers, teleporting keep paths, entirely new realm abilities which also effected class designs, that was altered so all in all, you are seriously mistaken at the largeness and major overhall NF was, try again
I did, I'm not mistaken, I was a 50 reaver and a 50 warden. Im not seriously mistaken, I have no idea how you can think that the re model of a few zones can compare to the overhaul of two entire continents, adding in many zones and dungeons that were always unavailable to enter. Considering with that they are entirely overhauling classes and quests and dungeons... There is no comparison. They are adding in three new battle grounds, that alone trumps what you are mentioning. |
Originally posted by Laughing-man
They're also redesigning all the quests in the game. Changing an entire game from the inside out hardly seems small to me... This is far larger than the frontiers free booster that DAoC did, remodeling one large zone is not nearly as complex as redeisgning their game from the ground up. Redoing multiple classes to be entirely different, changing the landscapes and quests you have to do to level, redoing the crafting system... Every single complaint that the community has was addressed wtih this being released. They actually listened.
I saw where it said hundreds of new quests but must have missed the part where they are redoing all 1500 or so quests. And no its not bigger than Frontiers as Frontiers to this point had more features. They gave races the ability to be other classes but what really changed? This is lazy. Is it cool in a way...yes but when you stand back and look this will actually be maybe their laziest expansion to date. Not even the mention of a new hero class which I think we will never see another one. And Deathwing...who cares every guild on the server will have him on farm soon enough. Just think they could have been a bit more creative. On a side not good to see 5 yrs later they have fixed water.
Want to edit in: WHo cares about 3 battlegrounds when the esport arena still will trump all and be the focus. Meh it is what it is. Some will be excited and others will not..you are. |
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