| 58 posts found | |
|---|---|
Originally posted by monkey_butt
Its people like you that are bringing this country down. This I want it now and I want it for free mind set is destroying everything. Look at Obama's healthcare plan, bailouts, socialism, they all have their roots in the same mindset that gamers use when they bitch about DLC or MTs. Capitalism is about making money at all costs. To make money you have to have a good product that is resonably priced. Adding MTs to a game does not make a company greedy it is just part of the capitalistic system that has made America great. If you must hold on to your socialist ideals then please leave and go live somewhere in Europe cuz I am sick of it here.
Guffaw... The subscription fee pricing model = socialism? Remind me to steer clear of any HMO you chair bud. Capatilism will settle this. If Sub+MT is unpalatable to the majority of the target audience there is not sufficient demand. If it is palatable to a majority then it is in demand. It's that simple. Kryogenic's points are not remotely based in socialism. In fact his opinions as well as yours are proof that capatilism is alive and well in this society. Kryo didn't ask for anything for free. Some of us have an aversion to paying specificly for a set of pixels as opposed to a recurring fee for a medium of entertainment. To me it's no different than Watching Battle Star Galacitica on Sci Fi and them saying, hey if you want to see the show with full special effects, pay this 10.00 fee. I'm not missing out on the plot, but the product as fully designed is not delivered as a whole so that they can nickel and dime me for what is already there and I have paid for it in my cable subscription as well as watching their damn commericals. I LOVE gross generalizations and sound bites...they make the world go round.
Thinking companies are greedy when they try and make money is a socialistic ideal. Don't condemn them for their business model just don't pay for the service.
|
|
Originally posted by monkey_butt
Its people like you that are bringing this country down. This I want it now and I want it for free mind set is destroying everything. Look at Obama's healthcare plan, bailouts, socialism, they all have their roots in the same mindset that gamers use when they bitch about DLC or MTs. Capitalism is about making money at all costs. To make money you have to have a good product that is resonably priced. Adding MTs to a game does not make a company greedy it is just part of the capitalistic system that has made America great. If you must hold on to your socialist ideals then please leave and go live somewhere in Europe cuz I am sick of it here.
Guffaw... The subscription fee pricing model = socialism? Remind me to steer clear of any HMO you chair bud. Capatilism will settle this. If Sub+MT is unpalatable to the majority of the target audience there is not sufficient demand. If it is palatable to a majority then it is in demand. It's that simple. Kryogenic's points are not remotely based in socialism. In fact his opinions as well as yours are proof that capatilism is alive and well in this society. Kryo didn't ask for anything for free. Some of us have an aversion to paying specificly for a set of pixels as opposed to a recurring fee for a medium of entertainment. To me it's no different than Watching Battle Star Galacitica on Sci Fi and them saying, hey if you want to see the show with full special effects, pay this 10.00 fee. I'm not missing out on the plot, but the product as fully designed is not delivered as a whole so that they can nickel and dime me for what is already there and I have paid for in my cable subscription as well as watching their damn commericals. I LOVE gross generalizations and sound bites...they make the world go round.
Well said good, sir... and thanks. I was sure I was going to be swamped by posters like Rush Limbaugh... I mean BioNut. lol
|
|
Originally posted by BioNut
I agree with what Kryogenic is saying. I ask one question though. According to Cryptic, If MT items can also be acquired through gameplay... Wich is most likely? 1) The devs will do their best to make Faction grinds absolute gems of AI, story , level design etc. or 2) The devs won't even bother trying to make Faction grinds fun or even reallistically attainable (1 month grinds -.-). My vote is on 2. Wich shows the absolute brilliance of MT! Instead of making better games, learn to make more money off worse ones!
|
|
|
What a joke MT's becoming the norm... MT's are in games that are failling and constantly bleeding subs. They are there to get more money because the developers know that their game is a piece of shallow crap that can't retain subs so they try to get what they can while they can get it. MT's do not belong in true AAA MASSIVE morpgs. Sure in F2P, and shallow crap MMO's let them get what they can. MT's will never exists in a truly massivemorpg of AAA quality that can retain subs. |
|
Originally posted by BioNut
You are actually arguing free will is bad? What does the President of the United States of America have to do with a greedy video game company? Seriously, go polish your rifle, you're a moron and wrong on so many levels it's not even worth posting a serious rebuttal. |
|
Originally posted by Irishoak
You are actually arguing free will is bad? What does the President of the United States of America have to do with a greedy video game company? Seriously, go polish your rifle, you're a moron and wrong on so many levels it's not even worth posting a serious rebuttal.
What I was saying is there is a section of people in the US that just want things given to them. They don't want to earn it they want it for free and they want it now. This is dangerous way of thinking but the liberals have latched onto the idea and have used it to win elections. They call out companies for being "greedy" because thats what the uneducated drivel in society wants to hear. They don't want to hear that they are personally responsible for having it hard, they want the big greedy companies to be held responsible because they have money. This goes for the video game world too. You see it in the MT threads all of the time. Companies are all of the sudden greedy for creating a business model. If you don't see how it all corelates then you have no clue what is going on in our country today. These companies are not using MT for greed, they are using just to get by. |
|
|
Thinking companies are greedy when they try and make money is a socialistic ideal. Don't condemn them for their business model just don't pay for the service." You are a fountain of amusement, I'll grant you that. Do you even know what socialism is, or are you spouting it because you heard it on TV once? The largest amount of our "socialist welfare" by far goes to corporations, greedy corporations. They are the main cause of our economic woes, it's common knowledge. "It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest." Adam Smith We owe corporations nothing, they owe us if they want to fleece us, to think otherwise shows a great lack of self-interest. Capitalism has only recently become about acquiring wealth at the expense of all else, which insures it will in the end destroy itself because it has become unsustainable. Greed is not a virtue, regardless of how much it has become a religion in our nation, there was a time when it was considered a vice. |
|
Originally posted by Irishoak
I know what socialism is at least in practice. Socialism tries to clip both the bottom and the top of society off so that everyone is the same. This is done to create a utopian society but negates human nature. I believe it was Marx that first came up with the idea...or maybe he just refined it. Socialism breeds mediocrity and downplays personal responsibility because the government will take care of it. The range between the rich and the poor would be much smaller thus everyone will be equally miserable. To me there is not much difference between socialism and communism. I was comparing people calling companies greedy to socialism not because they are inherently the same but because of the mindset socialism creates. The "give me now" mindset.
|
|
Originally posted by BioNut
What I was saying is there is a section of people in the US that just want things given to them. They don't want to earn it they want it for free and they want it now. This is dangerous way of thinking but the liberals have latched onto the idea and have used it to win elections. They call out companies for being "greedy" because thats what the uneducated drivel in society wants to hear. They don't want to hear that they are personally responsible for having it hard, they want the big greedy companies to be held responsible because they have money. This goes for the video game world too. You see it in the MT threads all of the time. Companies are all of the sudden greedy for creating a business model. If you don't see how it all corelates then you have no clue what is going on in our country today. These companies are not using MT for greed, they are using just to get by.
You believe in free will as long as it exactly...hahaha. Oh sweet fancy tap dancing Moses, it has happened! Justify it how you will, if Cryptic can not "get by" on charging 50 bucks for a game, 15 bucks a month and for ex-pacs, like all other premium MMOs they deserve to fail, and fail horridly. You're preaching some sort of socialist blather saying the masses should support a business model that we do not agree with so as they can "survive." We are not being given anything, 50 bucks for the game plus 15 a month is not considered "free" where I come from. And for the record people call out greed because they are good consumers not because they are "OH NOES EVIL LIBRULZ," do not attempt to transfer your apathy towards greed upon me. Frankly I'm disgusted Americans or so infected with the ideal of greed being paramount to success it makes me want to puke. Your right-wing scree is pointless here and it has nothing to do with the issue at hand, just your issues. |
|
Originally posted by BioNut
I know what socialism is at least in practice. Socialism tries to clip both the bottom and the top of society off so that everyone is the same. This is done to create a utopian society but negates human nature. I believe it was Marx that first came up with the idea...or maybe he just refined it. Socialism breeds mediocrity and downplays personal responsibility because the government will take care of it. The range between the rich and the poor would be much smaller thus everyone will be equally miserable. To me there is not much difference between socialism and communism. I was comparing people calling companies greedy to socialism not because they are inherently the same but because of the mindset socialism creates. The "give me now" mindset.
You have no clue, I'm glad you freely admit it. |
|
Originally posted by Irishoak
What I was saying is there is a section of people in the US that just want things given to them. They don't want to earn it they want it for free and they want it now. This is dangerous way of thinking but the liberals have latched onto the idea and have used it to win elections. They call out companies for being "greedy" because thats what the uneducated drivel in society wants to hear. They don't want to hear that they are personally responsible for having it hard, they want the big greedy companies to be held responsible because they have money. This goes for the video game world too. You see it in the MT threads all of the time. Companies are all of the sudden greedy for creating a business model. If you don't see how it all corelates then you have no clue what is going on in our country today. These companies are not using MT for greed, they are using just to get by.
You believe in free will as long as it exactly...hahaha. Oh sweet fancy tap dancing Moses, it has happened! Justify it how you will, if Cryptic can not "get by" on charging 50 bucks for a game, 15 bucks a month and for ex-pacs, like all other premium MMOs they deserve to fail, and fail horridly. You're preaching some sort of socialist blather saying the masses should support a business model that we do not agree with so as they can "survive." We are not being given anything, 50 bucks for the game plus 15 a month is not considered "free" where I come from. And for the record people call out greed because they are good consumers not because they are "OH NOES EVIL LIBRULZ," do not attempt to transfer your apathy towards greed upon me. Frankly I'm disgusted Americans or so infected with the ideal of greed being paramount to success it makes me want to puke. Your right-wing scree is pointless here and it has nothing to do with the issue at hand, just your issues.
I am not a republican nor "right wing" I am a libertarian and I believe that both parties are dead wrong. So stop labeling me as Rush. I did not say people should support it. I just said they shouldn't demonize it. If you don't like it don't pay and let the system work itself out. Seems like you are stereotyping me as well. |
|
Originally posted by Irishoak
You have no clue, I'm glad you freely admit it.
|
|
|
Exactly, just give it up, not the place nor time it doesn't impact the game or the MT store in any way, form or fashion. |
|
|
From dictionary.com
Socialism
1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory. 3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles. Collectivism The principles or system of ownership and control of the means of production and distribution by the people collectively, usually under the supervision of a government. Next step is communism So it seems I am not wrong. |
|
Originally posted by Irishoak
I whole-heartedly agree. Corporate greed and irresponsible consuming have sucked the life and vitality from this country. When you spend money as a responsible and informed consumer and refrain from supporting questionable business practices you are showing that company and, through extrapolation, other companies that we the consumer will not be sucked in by this kind of stuff. The problem with the video game industry is that the majority of the consumers who support it are too young to know the value of a dollar and/or are just plain ignorant insofar as how their actions as consumers affect the industry as a whole. The greed and exploitation in the video game industry is the microcosm of the greed and exploitation that has been going on for quite some time in this country. Look at what corporate mentality and greed did to the music industry. It's happening to the video game industry, and it's embaressingly apparent in the MMORPG genre. Look at all of the worthless cash-in attempts that have no soul, no depth, no consideration for the consumer's wants. I would never turn my nose up at free stuff, but I also have no problem paying for the things that I want. I have no problem paying for a quality game that would bring hours, days, weeks, and months of enjoyment. The problem is that when people like BioNut support lackluster games it then becomes ok for other companies to flush out garbage. Why should they rethink the grinds and timesinks when there are always more suckers lined up to pay for their subpar entertainment. It's up to us the players to hold the companies responsible for making the games we play to a higher standard and therefore raise the bar to a new level of emmersion, enjoyment, and fun. As long as we keep buying crap they'll continue to make it. If however, we stand united against subpar games and questionable business models, we can help chnge the state of the industry.
|
|
|
Of course not, now move along. |
|
Originally posted by Kryogenic
I whole-heartedly agree. Corporate greed and irresponsible consuming have sucked the life and vitality from this country. When you spend money as a responsible and informed consumer and refrain from supporting questionable business practices you are showing that company and, through extrapolation, other companies that we the consumer will not be sucked in by this kind of stuff. The problem with the video game industry is that the majority of the consumers who support it are too young to know the value of a dollar and/or are just plain ignorant insofar as how their actions as consumers affect the industry as a whole. The greed and exploitation in the video game industry is the microcosm of the greed and exploitation that has been going on for quite some time in this country. Look at what corporate mentality and greed did to the music industry. It's happening to the video game industry, and it's embaressingly apparent in the MMORPG genre. Look at all of the worthless cash-in attempts that have no soul, no depth, no consideration for the consumer's wants. I would never turn my nose up at free stuff, but I also have no problem paying for the things that I want. I have no problem paying for a quality game that would bring hours, days, weeks, and months of enjoyment. The problem is that when people like BioNut support lackluster games it then becomes ok for other companies to flush out garbage. Why should they rethink the grinds and timesinks when there are always more suckers lined up to pay for their subpar entertainment. It's up to us the players to hold the companies responsible for making the games we play to a higher standard and therefore raise the bar to a new level of emmersion, enjoyment, and fun. As long as we keep buying crap they'll continue to make it. If however, we stand united against subpar games and questionable business models, we can help chnge the state of the industry.
Problem is a lot of people on these boards want to see it fail before they even know how it works. How do you know its shady? Greedy? If you see something you want and it will make you happy then it has worth to you. If the price is unreasonable then you might not buy it....wouldn't be worth it. I bought a track IR the other day because it looked cool, not because I needed it. It has worth to me but other people would say it is a niche device and you shouldn't spend money on stuff like that. |
|
Originally posted by Kryogenic
Indeed, companies rely on the fact most Americans are apathetic or just plain ignorant. This is nothing new and innovative it's them hammering together as many payment models as they can and hoping it will become an industry standard. It's obvious CO is a testbed for ST:O, if this even remotely works for CO they will expand upon it greatly in ST:O which many consider to be a huge IP. Once they went open BETA and the forums started churning out massive amounts of posts, the thread a dev started asking how people felt about MTs had it's sticky status removed with zero explanation and no answers (after stating in the initial post that was the whole purpose of the thread). It was a few pages off the front before anyone noticed, it's clear they just want the whole ordeal to die with minimum fuss. As a matter of fact they started a new thread (a dev) asking what we'd like to see most in costume pieces. I wonder why they'd ask that... |
|
Originally posted by BioNut
Problem is a lot of people on these boards want to see it fail before they even know how it works. How do you know its shady? Greedy? If you see something you want and it will make you happy then it has worth to you. If the price is unreasonable then you might not buy it....wouldn't be worth it. I bought a track IR the other day because it looked cool, not because I needed it. It has worth to me but other people would say it is a niche device and you shouldn't spend money on stuff like that.
People with money have more than most in RL, should they have more than most in a GD game too! I don't know about anyone else , but I don't pay people so they create content for "other" people! If EVERYTHING in the store is available with a little effort in game ... then fine but I'm pretty sure only some of it is. Or down the line they start puttign w/e they want in it to make more money. What is to say tanking subs won't cause them to put other things on the MT store so they bilk more money out of the loyal customers who aren't leaving. I don't like it at all, but of course I don't have to play and I won't. Why would anyone want this to become a standard form of payment model? |
|
|
All in all, I think it is a reasonable review, but there are some points that seems to be missing and areas that I've had a different experience with:
My quick take on the game (mostly differences compared to other MMOs I've played):
Overall, I'm looking at keeping the game. |
|
|
Out of interest; Bionut, your in game alias is not "Joseph Mcarthy" perchance? |
|
|
Just to stick my neck out there.. The whole MT system won't be that bad. They've already stated that any gameplay-changing items will be available to players - and from what I've seen costumes will be as well. It's not like CoH/V didn't have a similar system after all. Furthermore, think the MT system has more to do with the Lifetime and 6-Month Subscribers rather than normal monthly subscribers. Think of it like this:
Lifetime Subscription Example (Notice: The math isn't going to be 100% accurate given that 14 months at $15/Mo equates to $210, not $200. I'm also not taking into account the free month attained by simply buying the game. If you wish to nitpick, just read "5 Years" as "5 years and 1 Month".) Buy the lifetime subscription right now for $200, in 14 months you'll be playing the game for free (When being compared to the $15/Mo subscription model). That is, free for as long as the game lasts. If it lasts 5 years? You will have only paid for 1 Year and 2 Months of time. That's roughly 47 free months and $700 that Cryptic would never get... $700 from one person. Now, what if 10,000 people grabbed the lifetime subscription? That's $7,000,000 Cyptic misses out on in the span of 5 years. Add/Subtract Zeros as you wish, any amount over $700,000 is a lot of lost money no matter how you look at it.
6-Month Subscription Example Comparatively get the 6-Month subscription package for $60/6 Months (Or $10 a month). That's a good deal, and in time that's a lot of lost money for Cryptic. Of course it's not as bad as the losses from a lifetime subscriber, but losses are losses. Lets take the 5-year example from above and adapt it. $120 a year, $600 after 5 years. Paying $15 a month would be $180 a year, $900 after 5 years. Say 10,000 people chose that payment model - Cryptic loses out on roughly $3,000,000 in 5 years time.
For those who hate looking at numbers in a forum, the point is that the Micro-Transaction system isn't Cryptic being greedy, it's them trying to recoup losses from the aforementioned deals. The MT system is geared towards adding an additional reward to players who chose a long-term subscription model while still allowing players who wish to play month-by-month to drop a little extra money on the same items if they so chose. Could it imbalance the game? Maybe. I'm not a Cryptic Developer, I wouldn't know - I have faith, though, they're not going to allow such a system to ruin the game because Player A is a rich bastard while Player B is eating Ramen in a college dorm doing odd jobs just to pay for the game alone.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
As far as the game itself goes.. It's love it or hate it. Just like CoH/V the game will continue to expand and grow to be fairly massive (It already is rather Massive, and has great replay value). It fulfills the Superhero MMO Niche quite well given the vast customization for your characters. The progression in the game is excellently done and allows for a player to have a completely different experience on an alternate character. Personally, I think it's an above-average MMO given it's genre and style. It's certainly geared towards a specific audience, but Champions Online still has enough features to be inviting to gamers who aren't huge fans of the Super Hero genre. It's not WoW, it's not Aion and I'll be surprised if it gains success even remotely close to either of those games. In it's own right, though, it is a great game and certainly worth a look. Are there inherent problems? Yes, plenty - not one of those problems is enough to make the game not enjoyable however. They're all small little issues Cryptic has been working hard to fix, and they are getting fixed - much faster than most MMOs manage to fix their problems. |
|
|
Hellgate: London had a lifetime sub... |
|
Originally posted by Irishoak
Hellgate: London sucked balls too. |
|
|
LOTRO Has a lifetime sub... |
|
