---

Originally posted by tryklon
Im sure that NCSoft has a reason to do this, probably the distribution contracts for the russian federation cover those countrys, I understand its bad for those people to be stuck with the russian client but its the way it works

---

But the question still remains. WHY should countries that have nothing to do with Russia and are part of Europe, be grouped with Russian Federation?

Frankly, it makes no sense.

Lithuania and Baltic Countries ARE official part of Europe.

Baltic Countries escaped from the claws of CCCP twenty years ago. All Baltic countries have already been official part of EU for more than 5 years. Its about time they are actually treated as such.

Why should Lithuania, where ONLY 8% of population speak Russian as native language(and only 5% are Russians), be grouped with Russian Federation?

Why should "distribution contracts" group these countries with Russia?

Most of people in 18-30 age group do not speak English, so the main age category for the mmorpg is already lost due to the simple fact that the targeted age market in this country does NOT understand the language.

Not to mention quite a high tensions existing between Russian people and the Baltic States.(The national poll of "national enemies" created by Russian "Press" lists all Baltic countries in the top ~5 of the list). With such *cough* emotions *cough* being propagated, I would find it hard for any Lithuanian, who would pass the language barrier, to play there.

It makes no-sense no matter how - territory-wise or language-wise you look at it.

No matter how you look at it, NCSOFT did a huge politically-incorrect decision, a decision which goes against anything that you could pass off as common sense.

Man could you please change back your thread title or something more real your title makes many think ALL europe is banned from aion EU till they come in thread and read that it's only 2/3 places now whole europe...

---

Originally posted by bloodaxes
Man could you please change back your thread title or something more real your title makes many think ALL europe is banned from aion EU till they come in thread and read that it's only 2/3 places now whole europe...

---

The thread title is correct. Nowhere in it does it say that "NcSoft banned ALL EU countries".

I thought I'd just post my 2c here, seeing how I'm from Lithuania and planned to play Aion for quite some time.

First of all I was really shocked to hear that NCSoft would not only give the rights to distribute Aion in Lithuania (and Latvia & Estonia) to Russian company Innova but also use IP blocking to prevent us from playing on EU servers. I say shocked because seeing how the Baltic states are part of Europe and European Union, I thought it was a given that we'd be able to play on Aion EU servers (and, after all, we had no problems playing say, World of Warcraft, Warhammer Online or Age of Conan on their EU servers).

Second, while it's true that the Baltic states are a tiny market for MMORPGs (Lithuania only has a population of a little over 3 million, for example - and Latvia & Estonia have slightly less) Europe has a lot of small countries so I don't see how this can be an issue. Furthermore, they'd actually get less customers by giving the rights of distribution to Innova due to the language barrier (most young Lithuanians speak English, not Russian, as  everyone is  taught it in schools) and  tensions between the Baltic states and Russia.

Third, it's a matter of principle. To an outsider it might seem like a lot of Lithuanians are overreacting (it's only an MMO, after all) and that's probably true. However you have to understand that it's due to our country's history. Being occupied and annexed by Soviet Union for 50 years and having gained independence mere 20 years ago, it's kind of a big deal when someone still views us as part of Russia!

Having said all that, I most likely won't be playing Aion as there's no way I'd resort to using proxies or some other "tricks" to force NCSoft to take my money and let me play. They don't want us playing - that's fine. But making Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia a part of Russia is downright insulting.

 IP blocks are sad, I can already see it happening around here considering how big Aion will be, worst thing that could happen is to be forced into a spanish-speaking server because they may think spanish and portuguese are the same language -_-

Regarding the "licensing laws" the GM mentioned in his reply: it merely means that the rights to distribute Aion in the Baltic region were already sold to Innova, which will be distributing the Russian version there. As such, NCSoft can't also distribute the EU version due to licensing laws. What this means is that it was NCSoft's decision entirely to give the rights of distribution to Innova, and not a problem due to some local laws or whatnot.

Regarding the center of Europe: Lithuania is the geographical center of Europe by some measurement methods. So is Austria, Hungary, Germany, and a bunch of other countries. It all depends whether they include remote islands into calculations, or the European part of Russia, and so on and on. Wikipedia has more info on this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_centre_of_Europe

In other words, it's not wrong to say that Lithuania is the geographical center of Europe, but of course it does not mean anything whatsoever. So is Austria, Germany, Slovakia, etc. What is much more important is not the geography but the politics, and the Baltic states being the members of European Union.

Don't worry - no Lithuanian actually believes that we're the "real" center of Europe. Everyone knows the Baltic region and the entire Eastern Europe is behind the Western and Central Europe in terms of living standards and development - a direct result of 50 year long occupation by the USSR, I might add.

Political issues aside, its a game and in my opinion (barring legal issues) I see no reason why you would prevent any person playing your game so long as they where paying the agreed upon fee. Since most other MMOs manage to do it to include AoC which is the one most likely to run into legal issues I am left wondering why NC or any dev/publisher would refuse the player. I can understand why they may not want to some 3rd party to take the lead on publishing and perhaps that is part of the problem (if they cant publish them selves, and wont release to 3rd party).
 
Now before I go any further with the topic I will say that I have not heard any thing about this beyond this post, can some one direct me to the press release or other document detailing the situation? I'm simply curious what the reason/excuse is as it is rather odd to refuse to take some ones money with out reason . . . I'll gladly take your money so long as its legal :) I don't really care where you are.
 

---

Originally posted by LodenDSG
Now before I go any further with the topic I will say that I have not heard any thing about this beyond this post, can some one direct me to the press release or other document detailing the situation? .

---

 
Actually, this is the worst part. There were no official announcements, no warnings not to buy the EU version since we won't be able to play it, no anything.
Personally I found out by going to the NCSoft store ready to buy Aion and seeing an empty page on the "Aion" tab. Sure enough, loading the same page via UK proxy I was able to see the game. Got a similar problem trying to buy from DLGamer: it said region Lithuania is not supported, or something along those lines. After contacting support about this "problem" I was told, quote: "Currently due to licensing laws, players in Lithuania will not be able to create a European Aion account". In other words, they sold the rights to distribute Aion in Lithuania to Innova, and as such cannot sell the EU version there.
I am not 100% sure about IP blocking yet. There are strong indications that we will be blocked though: apparently there were IP blocks during several closed beta tests, and some officials replied to our questions saying that Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia will be blocked from playing Aion EU starting September 20th.
 
Also apparently a representative of a popular Lithuanian gaming site games.lt contacted NCSoft's PR manager Christian Vestol who said the following:

---

In the case of Lithuania the license is indeed with Innova and this would in effect mean that players from Lithuanian IP’s won’t be able to connect and play on our subscription based European servers.

---

And here you can read his (the games.lt representative's) open letter to NCSoft:

EU might have some words here...

This would be like a game releasing in NA, but Texas is excluded due to licensing to a Mexican publisher.

How happy would the texans be?

I see some posts here about people trying to protest on other sites and try to change things but it just won't happen. Its a LICENSING issue. It won't change any time soon. Innova in Russia has the license though. You are just wasting your time :).

Originally posted by Athkore

I see some posts here about people trying to protest on other sites and try to change things but it just won't happen. Its a LICENSING issue. It won't change any time soon. Innova in Russia has the license though. You are just wasting your time :).

Some people have lost money though. Think about it. It's ridiculous that European countries, and members of European Union of all things, would be IP-blocked from playing on Aion EU servers. People who bought or preordered Aion from places such as Steam, D2D, Game.co.uk or whatever had no idea this would happen and now they're stuck with a copy of the game they won't be able to play.

in soviet russia game plays you

:( I cant play with my cousin in turkey

Originally posted by SgtFrog

:( I cant play with my cousin in turkey

I'm inquiring about this.

I live in Turkey and initially I'd had problems with activating my Aion account using the serial code bought from an EU online vendor... But right now the issue seems to be fixed: I can play on EU preview sessions so there's no IP lock as of now... Though of course launch may be a whole other matter. 

So I mailed NCSoft support, inquiring about the issue. Let's see what they're going to say about it. 

Originally posted by wolfmann

EU might have some words here...

 

This would be like a game releasing in NA, but Texas is excluded due to licensing to a Mexican publisher.

How happy would the texans be?

Hehe that would be funny.

But yes, that is the PERFECT analogy.

The only problem is that currently, EU law still permits localized license agreements. ( There are plans to add legislation to change this, but it is part of a package, and the other parts are not so well thought out and have heavy opposition. )

However, if the laws eventually get thru, then ALL license agreements will have to get revised.

Either way, it is completely NCSoft's fault, and I for one am boycotting Aion over this.

---

Originally posted by inkvizitoris
Lithuania got same laws and rules as all EU coutries....

---

Well, the rest of EU doesn't have identical legislation. For instance, Denmark has laws that prevent free prizes or additional incentives to keep subscribing which impacts quite a few MMOs. On the other hand, Denmark also has laws stating that if you get your account banned the offending company must compensate the consumer for the full subscription paid up until that point unless the ban is based on the consumer breaking domestic law (threatening with violence, identity theft and similar).

Germany doesn't have these laws although they on the other hand have very strict laws concerning content (suggestive elements are looked on especially hard).

I don't know the law in the Baltic countries but if NCSoft states it's down to licensing issues it might be worth it to look at your domestic laws governing the area of online gaming, subscription services governed by foreign corporations, and consumer rights protection.

Originally posted by Athkore

I see some posts here about people trying to protest on other sites and try to change things but it just won't happen. Its a LICENSING issue. It won't change any time soon. Innova in Russia has the license though. You are just wasting your time :).

Once EU law gets thru and localized license agreements are forbidden, then they will have to fix it. It will then be no Aion in EU or Aion in the WHOLE EU. ( Just like it is in the US now ).

I for one, hope this will get changed sooner rather than later.

And I may not be able to change things now, but I can surely protest and not buy Aion.

Turkey shouldn't be on the European server imho, a lot of them resist to be called Europeans, they even insisted on Turkey getting removed from the Euro (the coins have a small map of Europe on it). The Baltic states and Croatia should be allowed to play on the European server though. I'm sure that if you can find enough people to agree with you (/us), NCsoft Europe should reconsider their opinion. ;)

Originally posted by nitefly

 

---

Originally posted by inkvizitoris
Lithuania got same laws and rules as all EU coutries....

---

 

Well, the rest of EU doesn't have identical legislation. For instance, Denmark has laws that prevent free prizes or additional incentives to keep subscribing which impacts quite a few MMOs. On the other hand, Denmark also has laws stating that if you get your account banned the offending company must compensate the consumer for the full subscription paid up until that point unless the ban is based on the consumer breaking domestic law (threatening with violence, identity theft and similar).

Germany doesn't have these laws although they on the other hand have very strict laws concerning content (suggestive elements are looked on especially hard).

I don't know the law in the Baltic countries but if NCSoft states it's down to licensing issues it might be worth it to look at your domestic laws governing the area of online gaming, subscription services governed by foreign corporations, and consumer rights protection.
 

It has nothing to do with local law, it does not matter who publishes the game, local law will still apply.

I tell you what happened : they sold Aion to a Russian publisher, that Russian publisher said, "I wan't the rigths for those countries as well", NCsoft agreed.

NCSofts fault, plain and simple.

Originally posted by nitefly

 

---

Originally posted by inkvizitoris
Lithuania got same laws and rules as all EU coutries....

---

 

I don't know the law in the Baltic countries but if NCSoft states it's down to licensing issues it might be worth it to look at your domestic laws governing the area of online gaming, subscription services governed by foreign corporations, and consumer rights protection.

Like I said before, I'm pretty much positive that the "licensing issue" they mentioned is nothing more but the fact that the rights to distribute Aion in the Baltic region were given to Innova. In other words, it's fully NCSoft's decision and not a problem due to local laws.

You should look at the EU, not Europe. If it due to local laws, the continent has nothing to do with it. Only the EU has some influence in that. And the Baltic states only joined recently, Turkey and Croatia are still on the waiting list to get in, so that makes perfect sense. If I were you, I'd try to look up if the Baltic states resisted some of the EU's laws, or if they are still considering them, because that's likely to be the problem.

Originally posted by erandur

You should look at the EU, not Europe. If it due to local laws, the continent has nothing to do with it. Only the EU has some influence in that. And the Baltic states only joined recently, Turkey and Croatia are still on the waiting list to get in, so that makes perfect sense. If I were you, I'd try to look up if the Baltic states resisted some of the EU's laws, or if they are still considering them, because that's likely to be the problem.

Please do some research on the topic.

1. Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania joined the EU in 2004, thats 5 years now, long enough for me to know they are EU countries, but not long enough it seems for NCSoft.

2. They joined the EU, which means their laws consist of the following : EU law, which superseeds all local law, no if's or but's. Local law, only applicable if it does not confilct with EU law.

More than 80% of all the law in all EU countries is EU law ( which leaves 20% local law ).

3. Turkey and Croatia are not EU members, so yes, leave them out of the discussion for now.

But even that is all besides the point, because it is currently ALLOWED in the EU to have localized license agreements. Meaning, you can have 1 arrangement for 1 EU member  ( for example Germany ) and a different arrangement for another EU member ( for example France ). But it is completely moronic to do such a thing, especially if you create language problems and cultural problems, as is the case.

Now even tho the countries in question would still be unhappy with all this, I am sure they could live with it, if they could buy the EU version. But they won't be able, because IP blocks will be in place. That is just disgusting. And if all of this goes live, I do not wan't have anything to do with Aion nor NCSoft anymore.

I don't know what else to say Cyberwiz, except that you are pretty darn awesome. Appreciate the support :)

Originally posted by thecakelord

in soviet russia game plays you

lol family guy ftw

Finally got official response from GM

Hey there,

Croatia will indeed be included in the EU server.
It is Lithuania that will not. Hope this helps!

Thank you for your patience and cooperation.

Kind regards,
GM Ricardo

NCsoft Customer Support