Originally posted by Varnsta

OP, how about u look at this announcement as somewhat of an MMO 1st, applaud CCP for thinking outside the box, and wait and see how this is implemented with a sense of optimism and hope?  Would make a nice change to the usual round of negative doomsayers that so love to stomp around on these forums. The industry is in need of some new direction, and its people like CCP that i am happy to see spearheading wotever new directions MMO's start heading in. If they fuck it up, THEN come on here and point and moan and bitch. Until then, how about u try a new direction, and stop whinging?

 

If CCP would have stated the follwing :

DUST514 will be the next expansion of EVE Online connected by WIS to the current EVE Online universe, and console players will also be able to play DUST514 and WIS, then 99% of the players would have been positive or neutral about it.

As it is now, console only and thus not integrated in EVE Online, they dropped a bomb on the EVE community and it is only logical people react.

I know I am overreacting, and it is not like the NGE, still it is a big change in the game by itself, making it exclusive for consoles on top of that is ... not a good idea imho.

We, the EVE players always expected to have planetary interaction inside the game, not outside of it ...

Originally posted by grimberger

I also don't think that DUST is in any way comparable to Sony's NGE. 

What worries me far more is that CCP is a small company, and that they put their efforts into a console PEW PEW game while they should be working on the WORLD OF DARKNESS MMORPG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My thoughts exactly. It seems they are after a quick buck... i really do not like how the casual gamer audience found on consoles is allowing for developers to essentially develop these kinds of titles. Its really becoming a problem, this consolization of games. Console focused games limit the possibilities of PC games/ports, and PC focused games do not limit the possibilities of Console games/ports.

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Originally posted by CyberWiz
As it is now, console only and thus not integrated in EVE Online, they dropped a bomb on the EVE community and it is only logical people react. 

---

And no, it is far from logical reaction.

Blah the game will suck, AoC (i know different game and company but only one i know is for console and PC) plays ten times worse on console than it does on the PC.

It is more fun for MMO's to be on the PC (as most games) IMO. So why would CCP kick themselves in the nutz to make a stooooopid console game, when console games blow (well the new tiger woods golf was pretty fun but still) and are not as fun or last as long even tho it will be an mmo.

Looking at most the games coming out on console, the only reason companies make console games is for a cheap quick buck (like blizzard and the way they are going). Gaming companies need to get away from making crappy console game like Dust 514 and make them for PC. Only simple games like golf, short shooter games like Duck Hunt or something are fun on console.

  So to recap BLAH!  on CCP

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Originally posted by Wookiee6648
Blah the game will suck, AoC (i know different game and company but only one i know is for console and PC) plays ten times worse on console than it does on the PC.
It is more fun for MMO's to be on the PC (as most games) IMO. So why would CCP kick themselves in the nutz to make a stooooopid console game, when console games blow (well the new tiger woods golf was pretty fun but still) and are not as fun or last as long even tho it will be an mmo.
Looking at most the games coming out on console, the only reason companies make console games is for a cheap quick buck (like blizzard and the way they are going). Gaming companies need to get away from making crappy console game like Dust 514 and make them for PC. Only simple games like golf, short shooter games like Duck Hunt or something are fun on console.
  So to recap BLAH!  on CCP

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25M of Halo serie owners disagree with you...

It's getting repetitive :-/

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by CyberWiz
As it is now, console only and thus not integrated in EVE Online, they dropped a bomb on the EVE community and it is only logical people react. 

---

Only bomb dropping is done by people like you, making premature assumptions.

 

And no, it is far from logical reaction.

What premature assumption? That it will be console only? That it will influence sovereignty? That what we expected : planetary interaction ( in this case in the form of a FPS ) will now no longer be for the EVE Online player ( on PC )?

Backpedaling much?

Originally posted by grimberger

 they should be working on the WORLD OF DARKNESS MMORPG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 They are :).  They aren't exactly a 'small' company anymore either.  They have teams all over the world now.  :)

Originally posted by CyberWiz

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by CyberWiz
As it is now, console only and thus not integrated in EVE Online, they dropped a bomb on the EVE community and it is only logical people react. 

---

Only bomb dropping is done by people like you, making premature assumptions.

 

And no, it is far from logical reaction.

 

What premature assumption? That it will be console only? That it will influence sovereignty? That what we expected : planetary interaction ( in this case in the form of a FPS ) will now no longer be for the EVE Online player ( on PC )?

 

That it will always be console only.That it will influence soverereignty negatively. That what you expected, not we. That this will be the only form of planetary interaction and won't be for the EVE online player (on any platform.) That CCP is run by complete morons who have neither the knowledge of their game nor a plan for mitigating any negative impact on the EVE online world when history clearly indicated otherwise.

Basically you're looking at a preliminary press reliease for a product that doesn't even exist yet and predicting the end of the EVE universe as we know it.

Humm, can anyone say trial balloon here, or as ive thought adding a pve only content. The curve ball here is console only or is it.

Jihad works both ways

Originally posted by Taram

Originally posted by grimberger

 they should be working on the WORLD OF DARKNESS MMORPG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 They are :).  They aren't exactly a 'small' company anymore either.  They have teams all over the world now.  :)

 

Last i heard they stopped working on the WoD in order to work on a couple of EVE related projects. This is one of them. This could be old news, but i havent seen anything recently that says they started back on the world of darkness game.

ADD: I know they are planning on completely revamping EVE itself with a new updated engine/expansion with direct x 10 support. Pretty sure thats the other related project.

Ok this debate is starting to approach the silly tin foil hat arena. Heres the thing, we still know very little. The only ones butt hurt are in 2 camps...the OMFG its not on pc and only 8 yr olds play console group. Then you have the OMFG I am a goon and my zerg no longer has the only input crowd. Both are useless and cannot see the sun for all the fog in their own head. This is a almost 6 yr old game which continues to grow and they continue to do many development things to grow it. Most 6yr old games are losing subs hand over hand and the devs are on cash cow mode and just recycle crap.

Quit whining. And if you are in one of the 2 groups I mentioned speak with your wallet or if you are a goon your parents wallet. All the whining in the world will not stop it because at the end of the day more will come in because of the sheer innovation to try it out than will quit.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by Wookiee6648
Blah the game will suck, AoC (i know different game and company but only one i know is for console and PC) plays ten times worse on console than it does on the PC.
It is more fun for MMO's to be on the PC (as most games) IMO. So why would CCP kick themselves in the nutz to make a stooooopid console game, when console games blow (well the new tiger woods golf was pretty fun but still) and are not as fun or last as long even tho it will be an mmo.
Looking at most the games coming out on console, the only reason companies make console games is for a cheap quick buck (like blizzard and the way they are going). Gaming companies need to get away from making crappy console game like Dust 514 and make them for PC. Only simple games like golf, short shooter games like Duck Hunt or something are fun on console.
  So to recap BLAH!  on CCP

---

 

25M of Halo serie owners disagree with you...

It's getting repetitive :-/

Thing is though, Halo is a larger internationally recognized established franchise which relied on very specific stylistic elements. EVE's franchise is still very niche and going from the video... it doesnt seem to have anything close to the simplistic yet easily marketable stylistic approach that Halo has.  Therefore Halo becomes a moot example. The casual console gamers this title probably targets have most likely never either A) heard of EVE or B) Never even picked it up as it would be to "complicated" or "boring" for them. For CCP this will be a tough sell.

Everyone is always complaining about MMO companies never trying anything new.  Well here is CCP trying something very new and different.  I think they should be encouraged in this.  Do yall want to play WOW clones forever ??

As far as the hate for consols go get over it.  It just isn't 8 year olds playing them.  I am 64 and I have an Xbox 360 and love it.

I played EVE for many years and to me it got stale.  Now I may resub because of this.

Once again I say good going CCP don't let the assholes get you down.

I guess it true that "The pioneers get the arrows"

OP is overreacting a bit.

First off, it will only play a minor role in soverienty for the space game. Consider that each planet will only be able to allow so many ground troops on the map at the same time (typical fps mechanics), now where the advantage is, is in the calvary, ie space. If the faction/ alliance controls the space around said planet, it is more likely to be able to offer auto reinforcements to the ground game. IE, Bob controls planet x, so bob allied infantry gets more options to help it defend the ground map. With the ground secured, it is able to auto manufacture assistance for the space game. While this hasn't been explicitly described officially yet, it is how it has worked in the past.

Now to move into another item, that being the term they used to describe the ground maps themselves. They did so in the form of "districts".  I don't know about you, but to me this leaves the following possiblity wide open. FPS maps are typically smallish, and a "district" would include only one area of said planet. This leaves plenty more room of said planet to not only be explored in the space game, but also possibility of cities, manufacturing and training facilities, etc, for when they are ready to eventually offer a planet side experience to the core game. Since the OP was so quick to compare it to NGE, it would be like the usual pre-NGE battles around Mos Eisely (or other), while leaving the rest of the planet happily going about it's merry way.

Other things to include that have also been mentioned, are that 1. we know of this far in advance, unlike NGE. 2. It hardly affects gameplay in space at all. You can still do all you have done in space, without worrying about the ground game. 3. If done properly, it can be used as a recruiting/ spy tool for the alliances, unlike the NGE which just completely changed everything.

Last and most importantly to note, the OP does NOT speak for EVE players, but only for himself. So anytime he uses the phrase, "we EVE players"- replace it with "me and my imaginary friends", and it will put his whole arguement in context.

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Originally posted by Rabenwolf
Thing is though, Halo is a larger internationally recognized established franchise which relied on very specific stylistic elements. EVE's franchise is still very niche and going from the video... it doesnt seem to have anything close to the simplistic yet easily marketable stylistic approach that Halo has.  Therefore Halo becomes a moot example. The casual console gamers this title probably targets have most likely never either A) heard of EVE or B) Never even picked it up as it would be to "complicated" or "boring" for them. For CCP this will be a tough sell.

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Sorry but I am missing what you try to say...

Bungie, a developer company of 3 students released Halo after 9 year existence.
Is that larger international company?

Everyone has to start somewhere and no one could know Halo will become such success.

As for CCP and marketing, I think they proved that they can keep and grow their subscription base steadily more than well. How many 6 years old games have +300k paying subs with steady increase apart from WoW?

With no offense but I take your opinion as a console player you talk about - never heard of EVE and CCP.

Originally posted by kb4blu

Everyone is always complaining about MMO companies never trying anything new.  Well here is CCP trying something very new and different.  I think they should be encouraged in this.  Do yall want to play WOW clones forever ??

As far as the hate for consols go get over it.  It just isn't 8 year olds playing them.  I am 64 and I have an Xbox 360 and love it.

I played EVE for many years and to me it got stale.  Now I may resub because of this.

Once again I say good going CCP don't let the assholes get you down.

I guess it true that "The pioneers get the arrows"

 

 

You wouldnt be saying that if you understood the dynamics of the industry. Let me give an example, CompanyA develops a wonderful niche market game. Its deep, complex, and pushes the bounds as to what has never been done before. Then CompanyA tries out developing a game for a specific console, only, in order to market to the crowd they need to dumb the product down. Greater focus is put on action and special effects rather than deep and innovative features.  CompanyA looks at the profit between the innovative niche game they made and generic dumbed down action game they made. The console brought in more profit!

At this point not only does their publisher insist on them making these types of console games, but the developers also make more money. Now that niche game is dust. Innovation lost in order to appease the masses whose attention span doesnt go beyond that of a 10 year olds.

Look at Egosoft for example: they developed the X franchise. It is an amazingly dynamic and somewhat complicated space sim game. Very few companies make these anymore. The genre is literally almost extinct. They know they do not make games that make the most money, but they have continues to push the bounds and keep the genre alive. What if they were to drop that for a console action game that makes more money. Kiss that space sim genre good bye.

Its a matter of perspective and sadly... completely common business practices. Morrowind vs Oblivion for example, there are a series of games you will see shifting to appease the casual gamer. Studies show, casual gamers prefer shorter games as well. We see developers embracing this concept of...shorter and less deep games. According to the studies, anything with a learning curve is also a nono if you want to appeal to the dumb masses.

If you keep feeding the dumb masses dumb products, they will stay dumb. Keep feeding them products that require intelligence and good god, you will encourage thinking.

There is a small amount of generalizing taking place in this post, but In my opinion it really hits the nail on the head as far as where the industry is being encouraged to go.

I'm curious about this news. My first impression was why would CCP launch an EVE related product on a console rather than the PC? Everyone knows their fans are PC Gamers. Then my second thought was this could be an ingenious way to have PC Gamers and Console gamers working together in the same universe and actually have a role where console gamers don't have to feel inferior to the PC games. Everyone realizes MMO's are hard to play on consoles, so CCP takes another route and gives them a minigame designed for a console instead.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by Rabenwolf
Thing is though, Halo is a larger internationally recognized established franchise which relied on very specific stylistic elements. EVE's franchise is still very niche and going from the video... it doesnt seem to have anything close to the simplistic yet easily marketable stylistic approach that Halo has.  Therefore Halo becomes a moot example. The casual console gamers this title probably targets have most likely never either A) heard of EVE or B) Never even picked it up as it would be to "complicated" or "boring" for them. For CCP this will be a tough sell.

---

 

Sorry but I am missing what you try to say...

Bungie, a developer company of 3 students released Halo after 9 year existence.
Is that larger international company?

Everyone has to start somewhere and no one could know Halo will become such success.

As for CCP and marketing, I think they proved that they can keep and grow their subscription base steadily more than well. How many 6 years old games have +300k paying subs with steady increase apart from WoW?

With no offense but I take your opinion as a console player you talk about - never heard of EVE and CCP.

So you are saying you play EVE? if so you help prove my point.

What you are missing is this: Halo is a franchise microsoft managed to promote with the birth of their console, the franchise itself was very stylistic and in a way, different. Do you understand what I am saying when referring to the style as part of the sell and how it relates to marketing, even international?

The other part you are missing is that CCP offers a Niche game with EVE. Since it has no competitors in that specific niche subgenre, it has staying power. This has less to do with marketing and more to do with the sub-genre and lack of same genre competition.

The console market is flooded with FPS, which means they do not have the niche bonus. Nor does it have a clearly identifiable style such as Halo's. Essentially you use Halo and link its success to what CCP is doing, and my point is that cant be done.

Not sure what you are trying to say with

"With no offense but I take your opinion as a console player you talk about - never heard of EVE and CCP." The sentence structure/wording is a bit odd.

 Okay, it will be on consoles. He never said it WON'T be on PCs.

And what the hell? You think that this new game, Dust 514, should be integrated, for free, into EVE Online? That's ridiculous. Dust is a completely different game, it's just set in the EVE universe. That's about the same as saying "Well, I'm pissed because World of Warcraft required me to pay again for the game instead of just making it a patch for Warcraft 2!" And frankly, it's about the same premise. You want CCP, to give you a game that they've put many hours into (and need the return funds) for free, because you're a subscriber to one of their other titles? EVE and this Dust game are worlds apart, as I said, they are simply set in the same universe and that one will affect the other.

I think this is pretty darn cool. The Dust 514 game looks neat, and it's nice to see CCP is entering a new market. The cross-intergration with EVE could bring some nice twists to who own what, possibly allowing smaller corporations that have very skilled players to beat out larger ones. It really does seem like an awesome premise, even if it is console only. I have my 360 ready to go.

As for the industry dynamics, I don't see the issue here. I don't see this turning off many EVE subscribers (I believe, at this point, Dust will only make a somewhat light impact on EVE itself, albeit an impact) and the Dust game seems to be a solid Battlefield (remind me of Frontlines: Fuel of War actaully) style game which I can see selling well. I can see Dust 514, like Battlefield, selling itself on simple base mechanics but more advanced tactics and techniques are there and change the game. I don't see, though, why it matters if people have heard of EVE. People who haven't heard of Oni play Halo, and they're just about as similar as EVE and Dust, except the latter take place in the same universe.

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Originally posted by Rabenwolf
You wouldnt be saying that if you understood the dynamics of the industry. Let me give an example, CompanyA develops a wonderful niche market game. Its deep, complex, and pushes the bounds as to what has never been done before. Then CompanyA tries out developing a game for a specific console, only, in order to market to the crowd they need to dumb the product down. Greater focus is put on action and special effects rather than deep and innovative features.  CompanyA looks at the profit between the innovative niche game they made and generic dumbed down action game they made. The console brought in more profit!
At this point not only does their publisher insist on them making these types of console games, but the developers also make more money. Now that niche game is dust. Innovation lost in order to appease the masses whose attention span doesnt go beyond that of a 10 year olds.
Look at Egosoft for example: they developed the X franchise. It is an amazingly dynamic and somewhat complicated space sim game. Very few companies make these anymore. The genre is literally almost extinct. They know they do not make games that make the most money, but they have continues to push the bounds and keep the genre alive. What if they were to drop that for a console action game that makes more money. Kiss that space sim genre good bye.

Its a matter of perspective and sadly... completely common business practices. Morrowind vs Oblivion for example, there are a series of games you will see shifting to appease the casual gamer. Studies show, casual gamers prefer shorter games as well. We see developers embracing this concept of...shorter and less deep games. According to the studies, anything with a learning curve is also a nono if you want to appeal to the dumb masses.

If you keep feeding the dumb masses dumb products, they will stay dumb. Keep feeding them products that require intelligence and good god, you will encourage thinking.

There is a small amount of generalizing taking place in this post, but In my opinion it really hits the nail on the head as far as where the industry is being encouraged to go.

---

Just with the difference CCP publishs and developes their products on their own(apart from EVE boxed version) so there is no pressure on development.

Also you are overlooking two very important facts. CCP is doing what they want and how they want.
They are independent and remain independent due the other fact you are overlooking - with concole FPS release the are expanding their IP and start heavy work on a brand name.

Also, I wouldn't call Dust dumb game with the highlithed connections to co-exiting huge MMO world of EVE Online.

Originally posted by nickelpat

 Okay, it will be on consoles. He never said it WON'T be on PCs.

This. He never said it wouldnt be on the pc, he just said there would a console version.

Originally posted by Kainis

OP is overreacting a bit. - Is he? Maybe not.

First off, it will only play a minor role in soverienty for the space game.  - Minor eh, check out the post from Mrblodworth from yesterday.

www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3023170#3023170

Mrbloodworth wrote:

DUST 514 will figure prominently into the CCP Games strategy to revamp EVE Online's system of galactic control, called sovereignty. It was originally discussed in the current issue of EON magazine that planetary control would be an aspect of changing how EVE's player alliances gain control of territory. Apparently, what players can do in DUST 514 will also play a major role in EVE moving forward. Hilmar explained more about how the terrestrial gameplay of DUST 514 will be interconnected with the ship-centric gameplay of EVE Online.

Currently, player alliance sovereignty (regional control) is tied to maintaining numerous player-owned structures across different solar systems to establish a territory as belonging to that alliance, and as shown on the game's star map. Since DUST 514 is set in the same galaxy as the core MMO, with the same planets, EVE players will have the option of contracting DUST (player) mercenaries to gain control of planets.

Hilmar said, "DUST battlefields will dictate who control specific planets inside the EVE MMO. If a player contracts a DUST mercenary team to go and conquer this district of a planet. Then ultimately he will be able to control the planet, and therefore the solar system, and therefore the constellation, and the region."

He explained more about the interplay between EVE Online and DUST 514. Hilmar said, "You will increasingly have to fight with your fleet [in EVE Online] but you will also have to contract people who play DUST, the console MMO, which then feeds into the sovereignty control system of EVE. Then EVE feeds back into that again by funding the mercenaries, giving them goals." In a nod to Starship Troopers, he said, "The fleet does the flying, the infantry does the dying."

So, who to believe? 

Yes, its too early to tell right now how much of an impact planetary control will have on the overall sovereignty  equation, perhaps it will be a minor part and not of any real concern.

But that's not how the post from Mrbloodworth reads.  There's too many words like "have" in it, and only one instance of "optional."

Right now, Corporations and Alliances in EVE are able to control sovereignty by only playing EVE.   If Dust514 now adds mechanics so that without the control of planets an EVE player cannot control system sovereignty than the OP is correct, we have a potential NGE situation.

It all is a matter of what is finally implemented to course, but to say the OP doesn't have a legitimate concern is just incorrect.

 Edit: And please don't assume that I'm against this change, I think its pretty exciting news and am looking forward to seeing how it all turns out.  Just agreeing with the OP that if not handled carefully in the area of sovereignty its really going to anger veteran 0.0 players.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Kainis

OP is overreacting a bit. - Is he? Maybe not.

First off, it will only play a minor role in soverienty for the space game.  - Minor eh, check out the post from Mrblodworth from yesterday.

www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3023170#3023170

 

Mrbloodworth wrote:

DUST 514 will figure prominently into the CCP Games strategy to revamp EVE Online's system of galactic control, called sovereignty. It was originally discussed in the current issue of EON magazine that planetary control would be an aspect of changing how EVE's player alliances gain control of territory. Apparently, what players can do in DUST 514 will also play a major role in EVE moving forward. Hilmar explained more about how the terrestrial gameplay of DUST 514 will be interconnected with the ship-centric gameplay of EVE Online.

 

Currently, player alliance sovereignty (regional control) is tied to maintaining numerous player-owned structures across different solar systems to establish a territory as belonging to that alliance, and as shown on the game's star map. Since DUST 514 is set in the same galaxy as the core MMO, with the same planets, EVE players will have the option of contracting DUST (player) mercenaries to gain control of planets.

Hilmar said, "DUST battlefields will dictate who control specific planets inside the EVE MMO. If a player contracts a DUST mercenary team to go and conquer this district of a planet. Then ultimately he will be able to control the planet, and therefore the solar system, and therefore the constellation, and the region."

He explained more about the interplay between EVE Online and DUST 514. Hilmar said, "You will increasingly have to fight with your fleet [in EVE Online] but you will also have to contract people who play DUST, the console MMO, which then feeds into the sovereignty control system of EVE. Then EVE feeds back into that again by funding the mercenaries, giving them goals." In a nod to Starship Troopers, he said, "The fleet does the flying, the infantry does the dying."

So, who to believe? 

Yes, its too early to tell right now how much of an impact planetary control will have on the overall sovereignty  equation, perhaps it will be a minor part and not of any real concern.

But that's not how the post from Mrbloodworth reads.  There's too many words like "have" in it, and only one instance of "optional."

Right now, Corporations and Alliances in EVE are able to control sovereignty by only playing EVE.   If Dust514 now adds mechanics so that without the control of planets an EVE player cannot control system sovereignty than the OP is correct, we have a potential NGE situation.

It all is a matter of what is finally implemented to course, but to say the OP doesn't have a legitimate concern is just incorrect.

 Edit: And please don't assume that I'm against this change, I think its pretty exciting news and am looking forward to seeing how it all turns out.  Just agreeing with the OP that if not handled carefully in the area of sovereignty its really going to anger veteran 0.0 players.

 

 

 

I still fail to see any bad signs, frankly, that sounds damn cool. It adds an entirely new page to the EVE book. No longer are you contracting just players to take down POS' and clear out space, you know need to contract them to take out planets too. Nor do I see WHY it should anger 0.0 players, they sure have enough ISK to throw around :P

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Originally posted by Rabenwolf
So you are saying you play EVE? if so you help prove my point.

What you are missing is this: Halo is a franchise microsoft managed to promote with the birth of their console, the franchise itself was very stylistic and in a way, different. Do you understand what I am saying when referring to the style as part of the sell and how it relates to marketing, even international?
The other part you are missing is that CCP offers a Niche game with EVE. Since it has no competitors in that specific niche subgenre, it has staying power. This has less to do with marketing and more to do with the sub-genre and lack of same genre competition.
The console market is flooded with FPS, which means they do not have the niche bonus. Nor does it have a clearly identifiable style such as Halo's. Essentially you use Halo and link its success to what CCP is doing, and my point is that cant be done.

Not sure what you are trying to say with
"With no offense but I take your opinion as a console player you talk about - never heard of EVE and CCP." The sentence structure/wording is a bit odd.
 

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I still wonder what your point is...

Dust can't be successfull because it is not a Halo copy?

If you were following EVE, you would know what marketing did for the game in past year.

This 'niche' argument is old and stupid. It all boils down to 2 simple attributes:

Does it have good marketing?
Is it worth the money?

That is all what matters - niche, WoW or hair dryer.

I simply point out Halo success to show potention of console market.