Originally posted by helioth
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Jeez I have no clue why they would delete your posts.  I just checked your history and you spread lies and misinformation like it is fact, and you do it emotionally because you are a hater for whatever reason.  If you get emotionally involved in a forum then maybe it is time to step back a little.

Originally posted by Bureyku

Originally posted by helioth .
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Jeez I have no clue why they would delete your posts.  I just checked your history and you spread lies and misinformation like it is fact, and you do it emotionally because you are a hater for whatever reason.  If you get emotionally involved in a forum then maybe it is time to step back a little.

Exactly... and helioth, you can thank me for getting that post removed. So tired of your foolishness.... 

It shows by your reply - how much maturity you have. Good riddence... let the real fans of the game discuss in peace without "zomg this game is linear/sucks/I have no argument" comments

That it's already good in asia does mean nothing.

Asians are love to grind for hours doing repeatly killing same mobs for 2-3 days. 99% done by bots.

So yes it WILL FAIL on EU/US market a HUGE !

Originally posted by Warlord711

That it's already good in asia does mean nothing.

 

Asians are love to grind for hours doing repeatly killing same mobs for 2-3 days. 99% done by bots.

So yes it WILL FAIL on EU/US market a HUGE !

Another one that clearly played Aion to max lvl and experimented everything endgame has to offer..... /sarcasm

Originally posted by helioth
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XD

Yes, it s everyone else that has the issue and not you >_>  Thank god you're not playing if you're this big of a crybaby.

Originally posted by rr2real

Curious cause I don't want to buy another doomed MMO 

Theres a lot of hype so launch will be okay. The problem will come a couple of months later then we'll see if a combo of RvR and grinding end-game is enough for Western players. I'd say right now WoW has nothing to fear. Wait for better MMORPGs to come along, not ones that simply re-hash tired old EQ/WoW/DAoC ideas.

Well, it's the most polished MMO yet to be released.  It has phenomenal graphics.  Combat is new and a bit different.  Crafting rocks.  Flight is fun, but gliding is even better.  One gathering skill means you don't have to roll an alt just to gather.  Since it is Korean the weapons and models don't have the same look we've all been looking at our entire gaming lives.

Yep, pretty sure this game is full of fail.  /sarcasm

This game will succeed.  I'm thrilled that certain people already hate it without even playing it.  I don't want to play with that crowd anyway!

Originally posted by Illyssia

Originally posted by rr2real

Curious cause I don't want to buy another doomed MMO 

 

Theres a lot of hype so launch will be okay. The problem will come a couple of months later then we'll see if a combo of RvR and grinding end-game is enough for Western players. I'd say right now WoW has nothing to fear. Wait for better MMORPGs to come along, not ones that simply re-hash tired old EQ/WoW/DAoC ideas.

You do realize... when WoW was introduced it was the same as older games only with more polish/newer things, etc... ? The same way Aion is now... nothing was game breaking or "new" in WoW... it just did everytihng really well (stop me when this sounds familiar)

You are entitled to your opinion but you clearly are contradicting yourself in your post.... 

The game will be fine. Anyone who doesn't think WoW doesn't have an end game grind is either fooling themselves or have never actually played end game WoW.... 

I agree with you above when wow came out it was missing a lot of things but producers these days dont understand that we dont want an unpolished game this generation is very impaitent and not loyal to anything. no one wants to play a game that at launch is unpolished why do that when you have so much other games? just wait blizzard has slowly killed wow with the uncreative nature that has cursed them. but there next mmo will revolutionalize the mmorpg world.

Originally posted by shadowsgone

I agree with you above when wow came out it was missing a lot of things but producers these days dont understand that we dont want an unpolished game this generation is very impaitent and not loyal to anything. no one wants to play a game that at launch is unpolished why do that when you have so much other games? just wait blizzard has slowly killed wow with the uncreative nature that has cursed them. but there next mmo will revolutionalize the mmorpg world.

Im not sure what your saying... you sound like you're agreeing with me :p

Aion is VERY polished... no one needs to wait through horrible bugs or other problems that ruined games like Vanguard.... Aion is one of the most polished MMO's I've played at this stage - keep in mind... its still in Beta and works VERY well..

Originally posted by Markn12

Originally posted by Baggs

Having played a Spirit Master to level 38 in Chinese retail, i didn't feel like i accomplished something.

 

Let me explain.

 

The game is basically a gank fest.

As much as i love PvP (playing DFO atm), AION just fails to deliver "proper" PvP fights.

There's nothing there to stop a 10-15 man group jumping you while you're doing your quests or simply grinding.

They don't even need to be higher level that you, you cannot kill more than 2, maybe 3 maximum of them.

The 2-hour-recharging Rifts encourage this by limiting the access to the PvP content.

 

Abyss : Best PvE zone in the game.

Don't kid yourself, you won't be going there to PvP, mobs give double the amount of EXP than world mobs.

Some die twice as fast as well.

 

Fortress Sieges : PvE content.

To capture a Fortress, all you have to do is kill a raid boss. Yes you read it right, a mob.

On top of that, there's no real reward for defending it.

So people in Chinese and Korean servers just capture it one day and then leave it undefended for the other faction to have it the next day. More rewards for everyone this way.

 

Abyss Points and Gear : Mostly useless.

Abyss Gear is good only when you buy the gold versions of it and only useful for certain classes/builds.

Also, the main way to get Abyss Points is ganking.

Take a 6+ man group, go through a rift and go gank anything you can until either some high levels kill you, or if you are high level yourself; kill untul you are bored of it.

Another way is mobs and enemy NPCs, which was the main way of obtaining AP for some guild in AION CN.

 

All in all, the game won't fall flat on its face, but its not for the average PvP powergamer.

Nothing exciting about AION imo, except the graphics and the well coded shadows and textures which make it run great even on low end machines.

 

Anyone who likes/plays/worships World of Warcraft will most likely waste a few years of his/her life on AION.

 

Last I heard china isnt even using the 1.2 patch for aion arnt they using 1.0 or 1.1 ?

The 1.5 patch adds the slayer system which will really help slow ganking down but shit you cant stop asshates who do it just to be ass's this will just penalize them for it.

 

How is the best points from ganking ?  You get very VERY little points for killing lower levels.  Lv 50 kills a lv 25 you get 1 pt while an abyss mob will give you WAY MORE.  You cannot compare what happens in china to any other region.  People there like to do shit people in NA/EU dont and we like to do shit they dont.   I do say there has to be a reward for defending a fortress and it has to be a bigger reward then taking one.  Maybe NCSOFT wil lsee this in the future they have shown they listen to there players for aion so far.

you're right, only a few chinese servers have the 1.2 patch and it wasn't the server that the english speakers play on. they had put the rest on hold but none have the slayer system in game yet.

Originally posted by Nazradin

 

 CB 6 and they stil havnt fixed thier server lag/rubber banding issues, unplayable ....again

that is fixed in later patches no idea why they used the 1.0 for all the CBs we played. if we're getting 1.5 at lauch why have us try out an out dated model? it made no sense, it would have quieted alot of the bitching i saw about teh game. then again china had it for a long time now and they JUST got 1.2 and not all the servers had it implimented yet.

NO!, you said at the end of your article that people who enjoy Wow will enjoy Aion. That's alot of people. That's not a fail, that's a win. I personally don't like Wow and I think Aion is a blast!

Originally posted by rr2real

Curious cause I don't want to buy another doomed MMO 

Did you turn out to be just like your mom and dad?  Quit asking stupid questions and play the game.  I think you'll have a good idea of it's success or failure with time just like everyone else.  Personally I think the game has enough of a solid foundation to really be a top competitor in this market, but that's just me.

Jesus.  Can we just get a merge of all the threads like this?  I'd love to see all the "doomed to fail" and "WoW-clone" threads in one place.  Let the flames burn themselves out.

Originally posted by junzo316

Everyone keeps saying that the new patches will be launched when Aion goes live.  Has anyone tested these yet?  Everyone knows that new patches bring a few bugs....If it hasn't been tested, I don't think it will be as smooth as people claim it will be.  Especially a new patch which hasn't even been released in the Eastern market.  I could be wrong, and, according to my husband, I usually am.  I'm happy to see other games released.  It broadens the market, but the claims of the holy grail seem a bit far fetched.

yeah its been live on korean for awhile now, no english speakers have been playing korean anymore tho since they added ip bans to the korean.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

To those saying AoC and War didn't fail ....

Explain why their Directors were BOTH fired few months after launch.

I never saw anything that said they were 'fired'; you inferred that.

It seems more realistic to me that those directors had skill sets in developing games and a passion for developing games, not necessarily for running games.

It seems more realistic that they burned the midnight oil for years, burned the candle at both ends to get the game out the door, and after burning out they determined that once the game was on the shelves, they would take a well deserved break and then move on to the next thing. It seems more realistic that these directors have a passion for creating games but not necessarily running games.

Example: George Washington had every right to run for and probably would have received a 3rd term for president. But, he said that he had certain goals for his presidency, he accomplished them, and chose to step down. Would you now say he was fired and a failure?

I know from personal experience that I have left jobs after working hard to accomplish a certain goal, telling myself, as soon as I finish this project, I'm looking for something new. Isn't that a likely scenario for those directors?

Explain why they had several server merges and dropped populations of 750 K at launch to ... 100K/150K now.

First a fact check, where are you getting the 100k to 150k numbers for AoC and WAR? You have a reliable source on that? Because 'guessing' won't cut it for me. Even the mass 'guessing' leans toward 200k to 300k for both these games.

But to more directly answer your question:

Because they were trying to learn from WoW's launch mistake. Remember the queue's? AoC and WAR knew they had 750k people that were going to 'try' those games on launch - through their market research, some based upon the data they collected from the number of people who wanted into their betas. Are you suggesting that knowing they'd have 750k try on launch date and also knowing their projections showed only 300k retention, they should have openned with 4 or 5 servers? Leaving 450k people not able to play? Leaving the 4 or 5 servers so clogged that crashes would be ubiquitous? They wanted all of those people to be able to play, but likely knew they would not all stay. It is possible that the server merges were pre-planned. Would you suggest they publicly state: we know 750k are going to try, but you all won't like it, so expect us to merge your servers a few months down the line, because we know we aren't really going to match WoW's numbers? Who would hire that PR rep? But maybe with their roll of the dice, all of them would stay and they'd have the servers ready to accomodate them.

Fact is, and this is important: no one knows how many have tried WoW but didn't subscribe. What if you found out that 30 million have tried WoW but only 12 million have stayed with it? Percentage-wise, WoW's retention rate may actually be the same as WAR or AoC's. Truth is, I love WoW, play it religiously. Found it after being disillusioned with EQ2. Convinced my 5 rl friends who were still playing EQ2 to try WoW and they hated it. So what if 9 to 12 million people all have 5 friends that are the same? That would put WoW in the same loss percentage as AoC and WAR. That huge loss may be industry standard. It certainly is true with junk mail. You think publisher's clearing house believes that every single person who receives their letter will subscribe to a magazine? Of course not, their entire tactic is to oversaturate the mail in the hopes of maybe 2% actually subscribing to a magazine thru them. In business, that is a tactic for success, not failure.  And if 30 million have tried WoW and only 12 million stayed, then we could also say that more people have tried WoW and hated than any other mmo in history. Applying your retention failure scenario to WoW, WoW, by your own philosophy may be the greatest mmo failure in history. WAR only lost 350k while WoW may have lost MILLIONS of potential subscribers. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

In all likelyhood, there were people in both Mythic and Funcom who believed their product would compete with WoW, at the same time there were those in those companies that were more realistic. Mythic and Funcom may not have been an internal united front; publically they were, and justly enthusiastic about their products as good PR reps should be, behind closed doors however they may have planned for a more realistic contigency like server merges. If I owned a company and a PR person made a public statement that their projection models showed they wouldn't really be able to compete with WoW, I'd fire them. And so would you. Advertising and PR are professions of hype not professions of reality, no company ever won subscriptions by saying publically that their product was 'ho-hum'. Personally, If I were to develop the game of my dreams, I believe it would blow WoW out of the water, and I'd be proud to say it. Privately, I would prepare for a contigency plan, as I understand reality.

You try to paint a black and white picture of success and failure when like truth it is a lot more grey. They may have predicted that 300k subscribers would be a sufficient model for success, but publicly they would tout their games as the best thing since sliced bread. That's what PR and advertising are. Tell people its great because you believe it is great; while in reality knowing that only 300k will share your opinion of your products' 'greatness'.

Explain why both ex Directors said they would be ... number two in the mmorpg market in the west and they are not even in the top 10.

Could you link the list of the top 10 mmo's to which you are referring? What is your criteria for the list? Is it all mmo's or is it sub based mmo's? how did you parse the western hemi subs from the eastern? I would be surprised if you could provide a list of the top 10 subscriber based mmo's in the western hemisphere that did not include AoC and WAR in the list. If you are including f2p games as well; then maybe - but how could you gaurentee that those are just going according to western subs? Someone playing in Asia could be subscribed to xfire, so not sure how you even get this list without having insider information that no one has access to.

Now more to the point: are you suggesting that those two former directors should have instead publically stated "our mmo's will make a profit acceptable to our share holders but in no way compete with WoW? In fact, I remember that publicly, WAR said they were NOT trying to be the next WoW. Remember the Led Zeppelin, Beatles scenario? And remember the comparative success of the Beatles to Led Zeppelin? both considered great, both considered genious, but the Beatles blew Zeppelin out of the water in terms of total album sales.  If I had a director that said publicly they couldn't compete with WoW, I'd fire him. If I had a director that even believed that, I'd fire him. I'd only hire a director with a strong belief that their product would be the best and I'd only hire a director that would publicly state that belief. And if you were smart, you would to.

Whether the directors beliefs turn out to be correct is a matter of hindsight. I would let the bean counters in my company develop the 'contigency plan' to ensure success, but I'd want the directors and developers to believe whole-heartedly in their product and state that publicly.

-------------

For the Aion fans: just pray it won't happen to Aion, but forget the Asian "free to play" internet café accounts already.

The HARD competition is here out in the west with those 180 dollar subscriptions for a year.

I know already the launching figures of Aion by tracking Beta Xfire. And forget the initial 700K figures of War and Aoc. Those games gathered much more intrest from the "mmorpg hoppers".

The current Director of Aion clearly stated his goal: become the second most played mmorpg after WoW.

So when - after 6 months - they don't go to EVE numbers (300K subscribers NOT "copies sold") , I guess you can say it failed.

I bet against it and it is as easy as taking candy from a baby. :))))

The answer is simple: post Wow -----> no one can deliver a million subscribers that pay ... 180 dollars each year just to play it....

And if you think WOW was just a lucky fluke, you don't know anything about succesful game designs.

All that said; know that I too am an avid WoW player. I too believe it is the best designed and executed game on the market. I too have more fun in WoW than any other mmo I've played. But I'm not so myopic as to assume that AoC and WAR are failures. Simply put, they are solidly in the category of 'average'. In terms of mmo's their success is an average success, while WoW's is an unprecedented, unbridled success. Isn't that a bit more realistic than the doom and gloom scenario you've painted?

Well for myself ,I realy enjoyed the closed beta and I hope it will remain a good gaming experience for years to come,I allready have friends from other games joining me and invited more =] .Live the moment ,get laid ,stop bitching and everything.

Didn't know either game have failed. Only failure here is the OP and his wild statements taken from nowhere. Aion not even out yet..jeez...Too early to enter the fail wagon no?? Only way to figure out that question is to bloody go and play it, or read some business notes on the release. /thread now plx...

i doubt aion will fail like warhammer . age of conan is pretty busy at the moment so i would nt call that game a complete faliure just not a huge success . aions a totally different beast its already a huge success in the asian market ( lets not forget that market accounted for half of wows subs ) whether that will be repeated in the west is yet to be seen . i think its a fair assumption to make that it will be second only to warcraft and it will take bored players away from that game . i see this game having the potential to go head to head with wow  . the competition for blizzard will be good . maybe they ll start taking notice as to why they are losing players and make changes to bring them back . warcrafts far too easy now in general and obviously aimed more at younger children . i think blizzard have failed to acknowlage a vast number of thier subs come from adults and huge number have already left or are about too. maybe aion will fill that void.

Aion will be fine till around 2011. By that time we will have star wars old republic, FFIX, Starcraft 2, and Diablo while everyone is signing up for Blizzards new MMO :-p

Still Aion should last a while with its high popularty abroad(outside US) it will have no problem. Aion will last above the average thats for sure.

Games I do worry about are AoC and War(sometimes I wish they could just combine these two mmos ;) ), along with some others. Champions Online comes to mind, Marvel and dc universe to come. Makes it easy to predict for that one. But I am a gamer at heart and hate to see any game fail hard.

I am currently in the Aion beta and I must say that besides the wings, it brings nothing extaordinary to the table. I have given up on trying to find the "perfect" mmo. I keep leaving WoW in search of something that gives me that pre-CU feel that SWG gave me long ago, but there is no such game. So, I am going to give up and stick with WoW. At least with it, you can count on Blizzard cranking out new content like clockwork. 

And...I don't think SW:ToR is going to be the WoW killer (not sure why everyone wants to kill it)  that everyone is predicting.

I have been following and watching Aion for a while now, trying to see the appeal of it, and I'm still having difficulty figuring it out.

Is it the fact that it's familiar and comfortable that makes it so appealing? Because other than a few key features it seems to do nothing new or interesting, maybe I'm just bitter because other than spell effects I hate the graphics or something (mind you it is quite a turn off alone, the animations and stuff just seem stale to me) but as far as a 'new' 'killer' game I've yet to see it in general and have yet to see it in Aion..

Every forum post you read about an MMO is - "Oh Aion will own this game" - "Aion is going to kill WoW" - "We're leaving this game for Aion"..

I also see a ton of people mindlessly bashing it, I'm not trying to do that.. I'm just simply saying that despite it's success in asian regions, all of you are falling into the same situation as every MMO that's come out in the past few years HOPING and OVER-HYPING that indeed it is the next big game, granted it will have a large playerbase and will most likely do decently but it's not adding anything overly new.

I guess my confusion and misunderstanding all comes down to childish posts, there are those who bash the game unknowingly and those who praise and hype it in the same manner.

If someone can please explain to me what makes Aion amazing and what makes it so new and exciting, please enlighten me, I'm here to discuss and to learn so if anyone is willing...go ahead.

Originally posted by bigsmiff

I am currently in the Aion beta and I must say that besides the wings, it brings nothing extaordinary to the table. I have given up on trying to find the "perfect" mmo. I keep leaving WoW in search of something that gives me that pre-CU feel that SWG gave me long ago, but there is no such game. So, I am going to give up and stick with WoW. At least with it, you can count on Blizzard cranking out new content like clockwork. 

And...I don't think SW:ToR is going to be the WoW killer (not sure why everyone wants to kill it)  that everyone is predicting.

As a Wow fan I can think of only one game that could take any significant numbers from it and that could be SW:ToR because perhaps that game could bring something new to the table (Lore wise but certainly roleplaying wise)... IF they can avoid the standard questing of killing "boars" with "light sabres".

Aion is the worst that could happen to WOW haters as this Korean only reinforces the grip of Wow on the market. The reason is very simple: you can't outperform the original, you can't outcopy the already perfect copy of a fantasy mmorpg.

It astonished me every time people don't see the boost games like AoC, War and now Aion give to Blizzard. Ok, they need to adapt a little WOW, but in fine tuning it they make immediatly victims from those so called Wow killers. The latest being the leveling through PvP Bg's and joining Bg's from anywhere in Wow 3.2.

As a fan of WOW I was even more a fan from that beautiful lore of WH tabletop and what Mythic did was absolutely killing any intrest of even trying new and other mmo's in the near future.

Most people will want Aion to succeed NOT because it is a good game, no, most think that it should succeed in offering something alternative to play against the hated "giant".

The problem is by promoting Aion they promote the Blizzard game through the roof. Just like War and Aoc did. Polishment has nothing to do with it. Copycat products ALWAYS fail in creating their own distinctve markets.

Perhaps SW:Tor makers can finally see through this mechanism (I hope it for the WOW haters as they will finally leave my beautiful game alone).

Wel.. AoC failed because it was full of bugs, had the worst control system ever developed for a game [ they tried to reeinvent the weel and came up with a square.. ].

AoC did fail due to Nazizst Forum moderators whose job was basically to ban everyone not licking the AoC dev and staff shoes.

WAR failed due to several factors, mainly related to the playability of it and game server lack of quality provider in Europe [ GOA ]. The RvR system is awful, wich is a pitty because it has a large fan base. WAR did forgot that todays market has a big share of single players who like to play online games.

If Aion can avoid the mistakes made by theese games, might be an hit..