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Originally posted by ProfRed
OMG he gets it!! What a great post.... Im with the other poster, if I could give this 5 stars I would.
Exactly my feelings/thoughts as well - and I haven't even gotten to the PVP portion of it yet (the best part). Ya, the beginning is a little slow going but it shows you the absolutely amazing potential that lays within. I was really interested in the story too for once. In WoW I could care less, go kill X and Y. Here, I at least felt like I wanted to avenge Tutty's death (lol?) - I enjoyed the areas', the mobs, the questing... and even though I noticed it was slow, it certainly wasn't painful... and wasn't like WoW where I felt everything was meaningless...
I think this game is brilliant, but I can see why it isn't for everyone either. People want instant gratifcation games but they just aren't happening - and honestly... 4-5 hours will get you to ascention and off to your specialized class. Its not like 1-20 is THAT slow.. you could do it in a weekend, easily... (instead I got 2 chars to 12+ and another half way because I wanted to try different classes). They did such a great job with everything - it would be a shame for me to nit pick on the things they messed up on. Also keep in mind, its still in beta... they have loads of time to mature and make it better. The fact its THIS GOOD, THIS EARLY, really tells a lot about it. |
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Amorien
 Hard Core Member
Joined: 10/29/06
In the Land of the Blind The One eyed man is King. |
Daoc had open RvR Zones that had an objective that made pvp a blast. so you could pve and anytime you could step into the pvp zone and be outnumbered and alone VS hundreds of people. its good stuff to bad most mmo's Fail to see thats why that game was popular for years.
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Originally posted by t0nyd
I agree..what's wrong with wanting as many play-styles as possible...as soon as possible?...The more options available to advance or have fun with an mmo the better..regardless of end game. I used to complain about endgame in wow...then started actually trying BGs...still want to try raiding (tho I'm finding little tolerance among those I attempt to join)..maxing my professions..etc. So now..I can change it up to avoid boredom. Having PvP from 1st or 10 th level...like BGs would be great to me ..especially to break up the tedium of alt leveling. As for Aion...I have probably been unfairly critical of it in the past...but It is still not a game for me. I understand it's appeal to others....but I just did not enjoy most of my beta experience. hic!...CAW! |
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t0nyd
 Apprentice Member
Joined: 8/19/07
Im only pessimistic because everything sucks. -td |
Originally posted by Cammy
OMG he gets it!! What a great post.... Im with the other poster, if I could give this 5 stars I would.
Exactly my feelings/thoughts as well - and I haven't even gotten to the PVP portion of it yet (the best part). Ya, the beginning is a little slow going but it shows you the absolutely amazing potential that lays within. I was really interested in the story too for once. In WoW I could care less, go kill X and Y. Here, I at least felt like I wanted to avenge Tutty's death (lol?) - I enjoyed the areas', the mobs, the questing... and even though I noticed it was slow, it certainly wasn't painful... and wasn't like WoW where I felt everything was meaningless...
I think this game is brilliant, but I can see why it isn't for everyone either. People want instant gratifcation games but they just aren't happening - and honestly... 4-5 hours will get you to ascention and off to your specialized class. Its not like 1-20 is THAT slow.. you could do it in a weekend, easily... (instead I got 2 chars to 12+ and another half way because I wanted to try different classes). They did such a great job with everything - it would be a shame for me to nit pick on the things they messed up on. Also keep in mind, its still in beta... they have loads of time to mature and make it better. The fact its THIS GOOD, THIS EARLY, really tells a lot about it.
I wish you fuckers would stop using " instant gratification" like a priest uses the bible. In Warhammer, you can level up from 1 to max from PvP. How does this concept relate to "instant gratification"? Aslong as you must work toward a goal that isnt easily reachable, these "instant gratification" arguements are nonsensical. Leveling through PvP is the same as leveling through PvE, its called "deferred gratification". Your right 4-5 hours can get you wings and finally to your real class, but you still have like 15 more to go til ya can PvP. I would love to see ther average of how long it takes to get to PvPvE. Seriously, if I created a game, I want people to play that game and enjoy it and not play a mini game for 25 levels... |
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Well, I like the game! It is linear and if you don't like linear, then don't play it. I don't know of any game apart from EVE that isn't linear to some degree. It's not WoW and shouldn't even be compared to it. The firts 10 levels are more of a grind than the rest of the game. Once you get past the first 10 levels, the game opens up and becomes allot more interesting. As to classes- they're all fun to play and are well balanced-the easiest for me is the cleric/chanter-next is the templar/gladiator/sorcerer/spiritualist-finally is the assassin/ranger. Like I have said, all of the classes are unique to some degree and each offers its own challenges. The lag this last closed beta had was a problem and NcSoft needs to address this. The graphics are great. The worlds you explore are interesting and keep your attention. The game in its present state is easy to play with the keys provided. The game is very polished as it is now and is ready for retail. I've heard there are already patches coming with retail to make the game better. PvP was fun! All I am able to say about that. Does the game have an "asian" feel to it? I suppose, but, like I've said, you have to enjoy this kind of game and it may well not be for everyone. I do hope there is an open beta for everyone to at least try the game and decide for themselves whether its a game for them or not. I'll be playing the game at retail. |
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Originally posted by ProfRed
Just because a game is boring to many doesn't mean they are mouthbreathing generation Y who can't handle the elitest intentions of RPG makers. Give me a break. Forcing you to grind for hours to enjoy the real game is not building story, its monotonous. We arn't retarded. We don't need 20 levels to figure out how to work the same quest/item/combat systems the 1000 other MMOs have, so don't pull the "it teaches you the game" crap. In theory it might be a good idea to "ease people into the game" as you said, but it's not implemented as such. Doing kill 15 boar quests for hours on end has NOTHING to do with PvPvE mechanics nor raiding nor any other fun part of the game. It's not that we are all weakminded neanderthals that need instant gratification, it's that the game simply isn't fun until a certail point of job-like work, which is retarded. Honestly, if you think the utterly shallow beginning quests add story and ambiance you need to watch some real movies or play some real single player RPGs. I strain my brain more watching Teletubbies. ------------------------- |
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And the truth is somewhere in the middle... it's not as mindless as people say, but it's not as great as some people say either. Aion has a purpose for sure. It fills the void of those who like a certain type of MMO... but it's certainly not for everyone and no one should expect it to be. Playing: Aion |
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I don't understand what people don't understand about tony's post. PvP should not be a "reward" it's not instant gratification to be able to access it early. PvP should not be "end game". If the game is truely PvPvE then it should view all aspects equally, and doing so means that you shoulnd't have to JUST PvE for the first 25 levels. I understand them wanting to draw the player into their world, and that PvE is the easiest and laziest way of doing so. But why not mix the two? Why not have all your PvE world building stuff lead directly into PvP encounters if you so choose, meaningful ones. Then back to PvE world building, then back again, as the player CHOOSES. Why not build PvP quest and storylines that are as focused and streamlined as PvE quests, that can introduce the player to the world and the PvP combat that infuses it at the same time? It's too late to change this at this point in development, but he's saying it's a problem he has with the game, and it is very much a viable point. |
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Originally posted by Netzoko
Just because a game is boring to many doesn't mean they are mouthbreathing generation Y who can't handle the elitest intentions of RPG makers. Give me a break. Forcing you to grind for hours to enjoy the real game is not building story, its monotonous. We arn't retarded. We don't need 20 levels to figure out how to work the same quest/item/combat systems the 1000 other MMOs have, so don't pull the "it teaches you the game" crap. In theory it might be a good idea to "ease people into the game" as you said, but it's not implemented as such. Doing kill 15 boar quests for hours on end has NOTHING to do with PvPvE mechanics nor raiding nor any other fun part of the game. It's not that we are all weakminded neanderthals that need instant gratification, it's that the game simply isn't fun until a certail point of job-like work, which is retarded. Honestly, if you think the utterly shallow beginning quests add story and ambiance you need to watch some real movies or play some real single player RPGs. I strain my brain more watching Teletubbies. If you consider questing as grinding then just why are you playing an RPG? I mean what is it you expect f from an RPG? Ive heard there is a gankfest going on called Darkfall, perhaps that or an online FPS game would be more your style. From your post one would think youve never played an RPG before. RPG's are about many things other than PVP. It has to be true, i have internet links. |
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Originally posted by Netzoko
Just because a game is boring to many doesn't mean they are mouthbreathing generation Y who can't handle the elitest intentions of RPG makers. Give me a break. Forcing you to grind for hours to enjoy the real game is not building story, its monotonous. We arn't retarded. We don't need 20 levels to figure out how to work the same quest/item/combat systems the 1000 other MMOs have, so don't pull the "it teaches you the game" crap. In theory it might be a good idea to "ease people into the game" as you said, but it's not implemented as such. Doing kill 15 boar quests for hours on end has NOTHING to do with PvPvE mechanics nor raiding nor any other fun part of the game. It's not that we are all weakminded neanderthals that need instant gratification, it's that the game simply isn't fun until a certail point of job-like work, which is retarded. Honestly, if you think the utterly shallow beginning quests add story and ambiance you need to watch some real movies or play some real single player RPGs. I strain my brain more watching Teletubbies. Now that is a post that needs 5 stars! I agree 110% with everything you said. I find it funny that people defend the first 20-25 levels by saying it sets the "mood", or its the "learning curve" or it sets the "stage" for the rest of the game. There is nothing in those levels that one has not experienced before besides flying or other easily learned game mechanics. As for lore, it is easily learned and understood by reading about it. More so, most of what you learn in those 20-25 levels cannot be applied to PVP anyway because PVP is a different animal and its always different. Sure you can learn what your skill does but in PVP it may not work the same or even more, it won't work due to other plays being able to counter your skill. Aion brings nothing new to the table that a player would not experience in any other MMO at this point. New players to Aion will mostly likely come from other games or be familiar with MMO's in general. As such, in 20 levels, I experienced nothing that made me feel like I learned something new or made me feel directly tied to or involved in the lore/story. Mostly I felt like "i must grind these levels to get to the part of the game I want to play". And yes I mean grind because, to me, grind is a state of mind and if I am hatting any boring, repetitive, mundane activity...it is a grind. For the life of me, I cannot figure out why PVP isn't introduced at level 10. Make 1-5 about "learning" the game, get flying at 5, introduce PVP at 10 and away you go. Its not about instant gratification, its about giving the player the main aspect of the game - its a PVP game so the PVP should be in your face ASAP. Even as old as DAOC is, you can pick up PVP before you reach the end. Aion is not a bad game and it has its attractive qualities. I wish, for one, it would allow you to experience those qualities earlier on. I wish the game well and I hope its community enjoys it. Its success is directly dependent upon the quality of PVP and that has yet to be seen. That is the big question when the game launches. I personally will come back to evaluate Aion is about 2 months and see where the game is. But for now, there are too many negatives for me to consider playing. EDIT: And to respond to a later poster - not ALL RPG's are about a grind. Why can one person do quests and consider it a grind and another not? Because grind is a state of mind. I loved leveling iN DAOC, one of the the worst levelers to date. I hated it in EQ and also in LOTRO. It doesn't matter about how much experience or how long it takes, its about how much I enjoy it. |
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I plan to buy it... why? because there is nothing else out there at the moment that I haven't already tried. |
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Originally posted by rr2real
And in Warhammer, you can PvP right from the start, both in BGs and in meaningful (somewhat) open RvR.
Devs have got to learn that players don't want to 'earn' the access to the fun PvP, regardless of good or garbage the leveling PvE is. If Warhammer teaches them anything (beside not saving money on a garbage graphics engine) let it be that. |
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Originally posted by grandpagamer
There's a big difference between RPG quests and the "quests" that are in Aion. Killing 10 animals or right clicking 10 bags of sand off the ground is NOT a quest. Its grind with a journal to count how much you grinded. Go play Oblivion to see what real quests are, or really any other good single player RPG. ------------------------- |
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Originally posted by MMO_Doubter
And in Warhammer, you can PvP right from the start, both in BGs and in meaningful (somewhat) open RvR.
Devs have got to learn that players don't want to 'earn' the access to the fun PvP, regardless of good or garbage the leveling PvE is. If Warhammer teaches them anything (beside not saving money on a garbage graphics engine) let it be that.
you can also level up in pvp in champions online |
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Well I believe there shouldn't be A LOT of variation in classes. With this, a set of classes can be categorized into a group which consists of basically the same core abilities with slight deviation in each. There is not much of a difference into creating such a freedom; it makes choosing a class much more confusing since the basis of these groups of classes is the same. A game with such a protocol would have a class that is able to heal and nuke along with another class that is also capable of healing and nuking, but the former could heal for more and the latter could nuke for more. The nature of MMORPGs consists of only a handful amount of role-playing classes; namely a melee tank, a melee damage dealer, ranged damage dealers, a combat-averse healer, magic damage dealers, a summoner, and perhaps another one that can heal and nuke but does not excel at either. Yes, there should be a summoner that inherently summon monsters, another that can tame the ones that they like, and another that can even craft their companions. These small changes can exist. What I'm trying to point out is a melee tank should not be able to do more damage than the classes that were purportedly created to do. I really don't want to see a ranger that can nuke since they have their bows/guns to fire. A priest that can be considered a dps? Uh thats much of a priest... Maybe this extreme variation was not what you were trying to convey, however the role playing of MMORPGs is ruined in the presence of these ambiguous classes. I'd like to have a game that has defined classes with their own unique spells and fully capable to fill in their role while in a group. I also find the first 25 levels of PvE necessary. Perhaps the devs of Aion intended the PvP of PvPvE for the more seasoned stages of the game. To me, killing monsters and doing kill these monsters then walk over there quests aren't appealing. PvE for me is at the same significance as PvP. But leveling these first 25 levels should be fast and quick. PvEing allows that accessibility. I walk outside and there are monsters to kill and gain experience. Quests boost that intake. Exp doesn't run away from me. In PvP, people maneuver throughout the battlefield. It might not be easy to take somebody down. You might even get kill stealed. Yes, the amount of exp you gain from PvPing could be dramatically increased. But the traveling time to be able to see an opponent should also be assessed. I don't like the WoW approach where you talk to this NPC and magically you can enter another part of the world. This lacks immersion, I'd much rather walk myself to the enemy's gates; it's seriously more realistic. The distance you have to traverse in order to combat another person might ward off beginners. Now, the loots off a person and a monster are also constituents of a character's progress. In PvE, the monsters drop gold and other material that can be sold for money. In PvP, if you are able to steal your victim's equips... I don't think this method is viable. True, a game can allow leveling off PvP and farming in PvE, but wouldn't we all prefer a way that gets us levels and loots at the same time? Also PvPing in my notion is a way of comparing your character's current level of progress and your compatibility and understanding of your character's skills. Yes, the first 5 levels or even 10 can be sufficient for one to fully comprehend the potential of each skill. But PvPing shows me no fun while your character doesn't have a deep background. How would the post-feeling of killing a level 5 monster feel different from killing a level 5 in PvP? Both lack a heavy past. I would like to build my character up to take down a revered and notorious PvPer. And how might I learn about the game's PvPing mechanics; all those skill combinations and my skills' counters if all I did was PvE? Like somebody that has had previous MMORPG knowledge and knows how to PvE, somebody else might have previous MMORPG knowledge of the difference between PvEing and PvPing; people don't stand still and wait until you smack them down. Perhaps a little vicarious research will enlighten me on some of the more complex possibilities. If all else fails, theres always the option of going out into the open and experiencing some skirmishes to do some testing. However a sudden transition after one hits a certain level from PvE to PvP is not as rigorous as it seems, sure it might be something different but still possible.
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in my limited experince i found aion very boring as well :\ |
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