Originally posted by hercules

Originally posted by Mortemia

To me it's very simple: if I buy a game, I expect I can enjoy every aspect of it. If there are tricks, some special loot or equipment that you can only buy with real money, then I'll just skip the game.

I expect paying a game and a subscription get's you a full access to all content, item shops are just a sign screaming "Yeah we got a few jumpsuits here but if you are really looking for a cool stuff, you have to keep paying more."

I still think better equipment etc. should come through adventuring or maybe auction house, not by VISA or PayPal.

 

Try research before you post.It is visual items so how in hell can you say "better" equipment will only be gotten thru visa or paypal??

Whoa, getting a bit defensive here eh? Don't worry, I'm not here to bash YOUR game.

I wasn't talking about Champions Online here, just MMORPGs generally that has taken steps towards item shops, getting away from their customers with €s glowing in their eyes.

Though I don't see why Cryptic wants to take this approach either. I just hate the idea of not giving everything for customers that are already paying for the product.

Originally posted by -Ellessar-

Its been going on since the start of MMOs with gold farmers and leveling services.  The companies were bound to figure they could be making that money instead of the gold farmers.  

Unless they stick max level characters and ingame money in those shops the companies will never ever see the money that the gold farmers/level services make

Originally posted by Darkane42

you know its kinda funny.. all thise people getting pissy about the Micro transactions.. and i'm willing to bet MOST of them play ot have played CoX in the last.. 2 years... well guess what.. CoX has MT's =) not on a very big scale but they are still there.. and they they dont really add a whole lot but there are there.. like getting a jetpack at lvl 1 =) and costume pieces..

Let us also mention UO had MT with character leveling services, WOW has MT with name, server, card items, and faction changes, EQ2 has MT, Im sure there are more but those are the ones I can think off the top of my head. I dont see you peeps over there complaining. WAR also had semi MT by having items only available through purchases of books, other games, etc... yet no one complained there.

It sure seems convenient that folks get riled up over this game when other big name mmos have done the same or similar tactics.

Cheers!

The flaw in that marketing strategy is that when the cash shop goes live, They will get an extra... what... 15 bucks from everyone? 

The stuff isnt all that expensive to begin with.

mmorpg.com is 99% of dudes that just bash down every game, and they havnt even tried 0.1% of the games. They just bash them anyway cause their lifes are so sad. So I dont even care about it anymore.

I can't bother with games that cost more than the box itself. There are just too many great games out now, and coming out in the very near future that are free to play.

Originally posted by -Ellessar-

The good thins here with Champions is that, at least for now, they are syaing the shops will only be selling cosmetic items and nothing that will directly effect your character.   

I don't think they ARE saying that.

If you want to support this kind of greedy companies then please do so...

Monthly subs + microtransactions is a big step in the wrong direction it doesnt matter if its just cosmetic stuff. Why does not the monthly fee cover this kind of things?

It entertains me for people to say it's only costume pieces.

So the devs made content...like every other company out there.

Then they remove the content and charge you for access to it.

Regardless of if it changes gameplay, it's bullshit.

Originally posted by Mortemia

Whoa, getting a bit defensive here eh? Don't worry, I'm not here to bash YOUR game.

I wasn't talking about Champions Online here, just MMORPGs generally that has taken steps towards item shops, getting away from their customers with €s glowing in their eyes.

Though I don't see why Cryptic wants to take this approach either. I just hate the idea of not giving everything for customers that are already paying for the product.

 

Yes, exactly. I used to spend more than $100 a month on games (still do occasionally) before I started playing MMOs. It's not the cost that bothers me. It's simply not fair to give any competitive advantage to people who can spend more money. Period.

And before someone spouts the "life's not fair" cliche - I don't care about 'life' not being fair. We are Human beings with morals and ethics. Fairness IS supposed to be our goal. If not, don't ever complain about ANYTHING.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Mortemia

Whoa, getting a bit defensive here eh? Don't worry, I'm not here to bash YOUR game.

I wasn't talking about Champions Online here, just MMORPGs generally that has taken steps towards item shops, getting away from their customers with €s glowing in their eyes.

Though I don't see why Cryptic wants to take this approach either. I just hate the idea of not giving everything for customers that are already paying for the product.

 

Yes, exactly. I used to spend more than $100 a month on games (still do occasionally) before I started playing MMOs. It's not the cost that bothers me. It's simply not fair to give any competitive advantage to people who can spend more money. Period.

And before someone spouts the "life's not fair" cliche - I don't care about 'life' not being fair. We are Human beings with morals and ethics. And we can play computer games to get away from them. Fairness IS supposed to be our goal. And in life i'm all will ya there mate, lets make it as fair as possible, but this is a computer game. If not, don't ever complain about ANYTHING. Your right, lifes too short to get worked up about an unfair computer game, and yet we do, probably because we can do it safley and without it interfering with our real lives.

Hey look what i found, wow now that's old!

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/MacScarfe/102007/582_Can-i-be-unfair-please#comments
 

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Yes, exactly. I used to spend more than $100 a month on games (still do occasionally) before I started playing MMOs. It's not the cost that bothers me. It's simply not fair to give any competitive advantage to people who can spend more money. Period.

I agree completely! Good thing that is NOT what they are doing with CO's MT shop.

It has been said in an interview that they won't be selling anything that upsets game balance. Note that it is not the same as having an 'in game effect'. There are lots of items that could have an 'in game effect' that do not change the game balance or give anyone a competitive advantage.

As an example, what if WoW sold an additional Hearthstone as a MT? It wouldn't upset the game balance, but it sure would have an 'in game effect'. It would be worthwhile for some people to buy, but most folks wouldn't care.

Originally posted by Aganazer

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Yes, exactly. I used to spend more than $100 a month on games (still do occasionally) before I started playing MMOs. It's not the cost that bothers me. It's simply not fair to give any competitive advantage to people who can spend more money. Period.

 

I agree completely! Good thing that is NOT what they are doing with CO's MT shop.

It has been said in an interview that they won't be selling anything that upsets game balance. Note that it is not the same as having an 'in game effect'. There are lots of items that could have an 'in game effect' that do not change the game balance or give anyone a competitive advantage.

As an example, what if WoW sold an additional Hearthstone as a MT? It wouldn't upset the game balance, but it sure would have an 'in game effect'. It would be worthwhile for some people to buy, but most folks wouldn't care.

 And that is a reason I will not be playing. EVERYTHING available in shop should be available in game. And they will do what they want down the line and put whatever they want to suck more money out of people's pockets. Just look at SWG, no matter what you do to people, some people are just so hooked to a game they will play it no matter what. And If people are already willing to play with these non impact items, most will continue to play when they up the ante and add a little more here and there.

 To each there own though, If there is a significant playerbase who likes this type of payment model ...awesome. More choices for everyone is great, but I won't be there to help it spread. My 15 bucks pays for everything I have time to do ... not pay developers to waste time making things to put on a shop that I can't have unless i fork over more money.

 Awesome game, our group has been in beta for some time now.

Who gives a crap about MTs ?  So you can get a pretty hat or some other bullshit, a potion, xp boost, big freatking deal.  Every single game out there has MTs in addition to monthly fee and nobody makes a big deal out of it.  For gods sake in WoW you can even pay to change your race and class now, it's pathetic.  DDO is going all out MTs, all SOE games have them, literally every game out there has them, so take yoru head out of your...

Champions Online MTs have zero impact on gameplay, I have not seen any XP boosts yet but it only makes sense that they will be available at some point.  I much rather people who want to get to lvl cap paid Cryptic then pay korean lvling services and then have a game full of farmers like wow.

People who posts bS comments about MTs in CO have no clue what they are doing, that is the problem.  All you have to do is try it to realize that the stuff available in MTs is only for doushbags who want that pretty hat or armor or something.  If you do not spend a dime in MTs in this game you will never see a difference in your gameplay.

We're all hoping that Mts will hold off some of the asshats.  As far as the number don;t you worry, the game has allready gone gold ( that's in closed beta still, month before release, without the 360 version being available yet ).

mmorpg.com forum trolls bash every mmo out there, this is no different, so don;t worry about it if you like the game.  Look at al the various forums on this site, thesame garbage everywhere.  It's "cool" to bash games on this ssite.

Originally posted by Aganazer

I agree completely! Good thing that is NOT what they are doing with CO's MT shop.

It has been said in an interview that they won't be selling anything that upsets game balance. Note that it is not the same as having an 'in game effect'. There are lots of items that could have an 'in game effect' that do not change the game balance or give anyone a competitive advantage.

As an example, what if WoW sold an additional Hearthstone as a MT? It wouldn't upset the game balance, but it sure would have an 'in game effect'. It would be worthwhile for some people to buy, but most folks wouldn't care.

A second hearthstone does give an advantage in leveling and farming, as it lets you get around faster. So, no, I wouldn't want that in the game.

I disagree that most folks wouldn't care.

As for upsetting balance  - I have said before that I do not believe that they will NEVER put in buyable items that give competitive advantages. Even if that's not the plan now, they might well change their minds later on.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Mortemia

Whoa, getting a bit defensive here eh? Don't worry, I'm not here to bash YOUR game.

I wasn't talking about Champions Online here, just MMORPGs generally that has taken steps towards item shops, getting away from their customers with €s glowing in their eyes.

Though I don't see why Cryptic wants to take this approach either. I just hate the idea of not giving everything for customers that are already paying for the product.

 

Yes, exactly. I used to spend more than $100 a month on games (still do occasionally) before I started playing MMOs. It's not the cost that bothers me. It's simply not fair to give any competitive advantage to people who can spend more money. Period.

And before someone spouts the "life's not fair" cliche - I don't care about 'life' not being fair. We are Human beings with morals and ethics. Fairness IS supposed to be our goal. If not, don't ever complain about ANYTHING.

This guy never played a MMO... or he is just blind.

Even LOTRO a amazing leveling game had gold farmers all around and level up services (Bree spam was terrible)

CoH a game WITHOUT endgame AND economy (before issue 11 ish) HAD gold sellers and level up services.

Even F2P games are full of bots farming something (either levels or gold) to sell ....

There is no MMO + RPG without them. The difference here is that Cryptic is not trying to sell gold or levels on its own cash shop (that would be stupid, cause a chinese farmer would just sell it cheaper...). They are trying a new business system... and like you or not, its here and most likely not going anywhere.

Be ready for changes on the MMORPG market or you will have to stop playing them... oh wait, you never played  a MMORPG so you are safe ;-)

The issue is that Cryptic is assuming or expecting their consumers to:

1 - Purchase the game

2 - Pay a sub fee

3 - Use the store for MT's

----

For me, any of the 2 are acceptable but asking or expecting the consumer to do all 3 is going too far.

And as someone else said, these companies know that you won't make money in the store selling useless things and that the real money comes when the store opens up to game changing things.

Granted, I have no clue if this will ever happen or exactly what the CO's store will have in it, but I personally am going to give the game several months and see to what extent the MT's effect (or do not effect) game play and then make my decision to play.

I dont care what the devs say about the items they will be selling. Do you really think they will just sell cosmetic items? Wait until the game releases, you will see the real intentions for the shop.

Originally posted by Moretrinkets

I dont care what the devs say about the items they will be selling. Do you really think they will just sell cosmetic items? Wait until the game releases, you will see the real intentions for the shop.

That is correct, but if you had read what the devs said numerous times. YOU CAN GET ANYTHING IN THE GAME THROUGH QUESTS, DROPS ETC> that can be bought in the game shop. I hope you kids understand it now.

are all the people complaining about the item mall in the 10-17 year old age bracket? if so that would make sense to me. most of them dont have the means to spend the cash on the item mall so therefore they are pissed about it. asking mom and dad to fork out the cash so you can have that cape to make you look cooler than everyone else first  just isnt going to fly.

I like the option of buying stuff in order to save time.

In fact, the only thing I DON'T want to pay extra for is cosmetics, I think those should be included in the sub fee.

But if they end up selling perks like extra xp or gold, or something else that would otherwise be a grind, I'll pony up because time is money and at least I'd have the option.

But I doubt they will. This is going to be like CoX's costume packs.

As long as the cash shop isn't in your face every 5 minutes(which it isn't) unlike FreeRealms, then it shouldn't matter if there's one in the game.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

I have said before that I do not believe that they will NEVER put in buyable items that give competitive advantages. Even if that's not the plan now, they might well change their minds later on.

That's the problem then isn't it. Slippery slope is a logical falacy for a reason. Just because they do one thing does not mean that they will change and then do something else.

I mean, as an example, does your state support the death penalty? If so, are you worried that they might start sentencing people to death for traffic violations? Of course not. The residents wouldn't support it. Its ridiculous to even consider.

Also, if you don't believe Cryptic, how can you believe that ANY and ALL MMOG's won't have balance effecting items for sale? Obviously you won't believe anyone based on their 'policy' or a promise during a dev interview. Is Blizzard going to change their minds and put high end raid gear in their TCG? Will Aion start selling Godstones?

Originally posted by templarga

The issue is that Cryptic is assuming or expecting their consumers to:

1 - Purchase the game

2 - Pay a sub fee

3 - Use the store for MT's

----

For me, any of the 2 are acceptable but asking or expecting the consumer to do all 3 is going too far.

And as someone else said, these companies know that you won't make money in the store selling useless things and that the real money comes when the store opens up to game changing things.

Granted, I have no clue if this will ever happen or exactly what the CO's store will have in it, but I personally am going to give the game several months and see to what extent the MT's effect (or do not effect) game play and then make my decision to play.

You're loading your wording by saying that they are 'expecting' you to buy things from the MT shop. Does Blizzard 'expect' you to buy their TCG? No, of course not, but there are some perks for doing so.

Originally posted by Aganazer

 I mean, as an example, does your state support the death penalty? If so, are you worried that they might start sentencing people to death for traffic violations? Of course not. The residents wouldn't support it. Its ridiculous to even consider.

THIS, this has so much thisness it transends the normal definitions of this and redfines it.