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Originally posted by veritas_X
Got a link for that? Not saying you're wrong, but the latest interview I read with Dave Jones indicated they're still mulling various payment models and the final decision will likely not be made anytime soon.
Last I heard APB was going to be B2P (Buy to Play), just like Guild Wars. Found this bit of info at the APB website: How much will APB cost? The actual price for the game itself is still under discussion but we’ll keep you up to date. We can confirm that APB will not require a monthly subscription. When we get back from where we are going, we will return to where we were. I know people there! |
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Lobotomist
 Advanced Member
Joined: 5/20/07
I got so much |
Originally posted by junzo316
AOC sold 700.000 copies in first month. Or how WAR sold 500.000. Than allready in 1 subscription month they lost over 50% user base... And we all know how the things went down hill from there
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heartless
 Elite Member
Joined: 1/05/04
Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan |
Originally posted by junzo316
No, the joke is on the people who bought a life time subscription.
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Originally posted by heartless
No, the joke is on the people who bought a life time subscription. Because lifetime sub = fail game that'll shut down, like Hellgate: London? Or are you just targeting CO specifically as a bad game?
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Originally posted by pb1285n
your an idiot throwing your opinion out there like that... it's like sports... just because a major league team doesn't perform doesn't make it a NON Major League team... AoC and War were both AAA titles that were nitches . They met a player base and provided a service to those who wanted it and were able to fork out obscene dollars to make the product. Obscene dollars = AAA, AA or A would be lower budget titles made by less popular companies obviously. No AAA title is junk... AOC still claims 100k subs, War 100k subs... it's not great but it's not "Bad" If either WAR or AoC go F2P they would BY FAR be the most played F2P titles because the quality of gameplay is so much more polished. See your entire frame of thought it F***ed Off. No MMO's are successful(Meaning hundreds of thousands of subs for 14.99/mo.) other than WOW on the US market... Americans generally have lives(Meaning MMO's are an era sometimes you have a game you play the other times your working, school, women, or even console titles and IRL activities) ... Most of FFXI and WoW players are foriegn lands. It's how it works... thats business all MMO companies know US is where to hype and the rest of the world is where to actually turn profit. Question anything I had to say... google it. Oh and pretty much every US MMO drops half the subs in the first 2 months. It's not that the games bad just half the people move on to one of the 300 other mmo's coming out within a month or 2. "Sometimes people say stuff they don't mean, but more often then that they don't say things they do mean" |
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heartless
Elite Member
Joined: 1/05/04
Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan |
Originally posted by Comnitus Because lifetime sub = fail game that'll shut down, like Hellgate: London? Or are you just targeting CO specifically as a bad game? I wouldn't call it a bad game, there are some good aspects of it and it definitely has it's charm. However, once the honeymoon period wears off, you are left with a very shallow game without any sort of replay value.
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I am afraid I will need a lobotomy to agree with this OP. :) Firstly of the MMO’s quoted only DDO was AAA and that went F2P years after launch. There is no such thing as a free lunch or free game. The sooner people wise up to that the sooner ‘Free’2P is seen as the con it is. |
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Lobotomist
Advanced Member
Joined: 5/20/07
I got so much |
F2P is not free. I mean who would develop multimilion dollar game, and than give it for free ??? If you ever thought that , you are bit naive F2P stands for, pay when you want for what you want and if you want. while P2P stands for you always pay fix rate, even if you only play 2 minutes a month
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Originally posted by Lobotomist
Exactly! I love people going "OH NO this game is not Freee!!!1" Did you really expect MMO comanuies to be running charity? I think more and more games are going with a hybrid buisness model like DDO. Just having a monthly option is stupid since people play in alot of differnt ways and paying needs to be more flexible. Play 40 hours/week and paying monthly is a good deal, paying 4 hours/week and pay the same price?? One size doesnt fit all! The pay for what you play model in DDO is the best I have seen and it will be interesting to see how it turns out after release! Then there are comanies like Cryptic and SOE who think they can have both monthly sub + microtransactions. Thats just greedy and I hope all their games fail! If WoW = The Beatles |
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This is what I have always understood F2P to mean. You can download it, make a toon, get a weapon and start killing and levelling for free. With P2P you have to pay for an activation code and sometimes a sub if you want to logon, make a toon, get a weapon and kill stuff to level. I figure that if you weren't paying for a game code and sub, they had to make the money up somehow so I expected to see items for sale and such. I never really got the concept of F2P games being deceptive at all. Hope is not a strategy |
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Originally posted by Comnitus Anytime a company offers a lifetime supply of something but only before you get to try it out (since most people won't be in the 'open' Beta), your scam alarm should be going off. Not saying it IS a scam, but it IS wearing a scam's uniform. (Apologies to Dave Chappelle.) If the 'open' Beta is missing content from the closed Beta - run like hell. |
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vmoped
 Advanced Member
Joined: 3/07/04
Gamer fanboi. All games are good and/or great, in their own way! Stop da hate and go forth and play! |
Originally posted by Leethe F2P means FREE TO PLAY. The game is free Lobotomist, what is not free are the customization, increased xp, crafting items, goodies, etc... that make the gameplay more fast pace/rewarding/etc... to the player. You can play any FREE TO PLAY game without dropping a dime, but you will fall behind those who do pay for the advantages. Once again F2P means free to play. Look it up mate. Cheers! |
Originally posted by MMO_Doubter Anytime a company offers a lifetime supply of something but only before you get to try it out (since most people won't be in the 'open' Beta), your scam alarm should be going off. Not saying it IS a scam, but it IS wearing a scam's uniform. (Apologies to Dave Chappelle.) If the 'open' Beta is missing content from the closed Beta - run like hell.
Amen to that. All you people looking forward to Open Beta...keep a close eye out and ask a lot of questions of the people who have been there a while. Mne eto nado kak zuby v zadnitse. |
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I have a hard time supporting any F2P model. It just sounds way too much like a scam - "It's FREE TO PLAY! Except, well, it's sort of not. It's FREE TO PLAY if you don't mind taking ten times as long to progress and have no customization abilities!" The word 'Free' itself is a big red flag to me - not just MMOs but anywhere. Nothing is free.  |
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western productions will always be p2p, maybe now with a additionaly itemshop (microtransacions). why? cuz developers know their customers think a p2p is worth the money! ...and they know their customers are still stupid enough to buy:
the full retail copy ~ 50 euros (+ "collector's-edition" etc.) the monthly fee ~ 12-16 euros the (various) addons ~ 15-30 euros
why should i pay for it? in the last years the so called AAA titles released all with a very average quality and a negative gaming experience: the most titles lost the majority of customers after the first month. why should i risk to buy a p2p? i never know how the next gamepatch change the gameplay, maybe the whole gamingexperience... when you look back, then you see, there are some very big titels who beeing killed just by some patchwhores. when you see a interesting f2p, you just download it, play it and when you do not like it you just uninstall and forget it!
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I think alot of the MMOs are doing right by aiming for f2p rather than sub - not to mention boxed versions. There is one giant that is dominating the MMo market atm and to get ppl to play something else - going free download and free trial is the best way to get to players and allow them to try the game. What have we learned from the last two years of MMOs ? Exaclty - NONE of the MMOs comming out have delivered. It turned into pre -order campaign promising everything and delivering nothing. Is that what gamers want ? Is that better than free to play ? Nope its not. But here is my question.... Why is there no game going JUST SUB ? Eve online have done that for years now and are building up their game by adding free content on regulare basis. It also gives the new players chance to enjoy the ENTIRE game instead of forcing them to buy 2-3 expansions to play with their friends. The free to play games are improving all the time now. I really enjoy games like Atlantica and Runes of Magic. In my opinion these games are better than many of the boxed subed games like AOC and WAR. The main reason why F2P gets battered is because the no lifers cant handle a game beeing about something other than playing the longest. Any moron that playes 30-50 hours per week feels he is the best - and if you can play 100+ you are God. |
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Originally posted by heartless
No, the joke is on the people who bought a life time subscription. I think that remains to be seen, unless you have consulted Cleo on this subject... |
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Originally posted by kal08
For me, it isn't about the cost to the player unless they really go overboard. It's about these companies making more profits than they deserve by selling at best, the same old crap and at worst, even less content than traditional MMOs. Just because the cost to us isn't overwhelming, it doesn't justify the outright greed of these companies. |
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Originally posted by brezel Why play an MMO at ALL if you are just going to quit after a month or so? Besides the cash shops, F2P turns me off because I don't see a lot of end game content in them.
I want a game I can progress in and be entertained by for at least a year. If a month was enough, I'd just buy new solo or team-based games each month. |
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No the P2P age isnt dead, the P2P for a crappy subpar game is now dead. People arent going to cough up 200+ bucks a year for something that is only fun sometimes...however, they wont mind playing for free and occasionally purchasing something to assist the fun. So, no I thoroughly expect games like aion to do very well, where as certain other games that failed to deliver, few you listed, will end up being F2P. Darkfall News |
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Originally posted by Tailz2k7
your an idiot throwing your opinion out there like that... it's like sports... just because a major league team doesn't perform doesn't make it a NON Major League team... AoC and War were both AAA titles that were nitches . They met a player base and provided a service to those who wanted it and were able to fork out obscene dollars to make the product. Obscene dollars = AAA, AA or A would be lower budget titles made by less popular companies obviously. No AAA title is junk... AOC still claims 100k subs, War 100k subs... it's not great but it's not "Bad" If either WAR or AoC go F2P they would BY FAR be the most played F2P titles because the quality of gameplay is so much more polished. See your entire frame of thought it F***ed Off. No MMO's are successful(Meaning hundreds of thousands of subs for 14.99/mo.) other than WOW on the US market... Americans generally have lives(Meaning MMO's are an era sometimes you have a game you play the other times your working, school, women, or even console titles and IRL activities) ... Most of FFXI and WoW players are foriegn lands. It's how it works... thats business all MMO companies know US is where to hype and the rest of the world is where to actually turn profit. Question anything I had to say... google it. Oh and pretty much every US MMO drops half the subs in the first 2 months. It's not that the games bad just half the people move on to one of the 300 other mmo's coming out within a month or 2.
First you call me an idiot for "throwing out my opinion", then you go and spew out your own opinion like fact. The problem is you don't seem to be able to define AAA yourself. Does the money put into it make it a AAA game? Is it the company behind it? Does that mean when Vanguard was being developed it wasn't a AAA title because Sigil wasn't a well known company and now it is because SOE runs it? What about a game developed by a small no name company that some how makes it big? Is it still not a AAA title or does it become one because you said you're either a AAA title or you're not, things don't change. Would you consider Dungeons and Dragons a AAA title?| Both had tons of money thrown at it and both are being run by big name companies. 100k may have been great at one point in time, but unfortunately companies are spending so much money to develop games that 100k just can't cut it anymore. Oh and you are a moron for stereotyping American and Asian gamers. |
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heartless
Elite Member
Joined: 1/05/04
Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan |
Originally posted by junzo316 I think that remains to be seen, unless you have consulted Cleo on this subject...
I don't need a psychic to make an educated prediction based on what I have seen and experienced since September of last year. I could be wrong, then again, I could be right. I'm a huge fan of Cryptic, they are great guys, very community oriented and talented. I wish them lots of luck with CO and STO but I won't pay $199 for a shell of what could have been an amazing game. Especially since RMT is part of the equation.
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I think Good Games will continue to be P2P. Crappy games that lots of people are willing to spend money on in item shops will be F2P. Problem is a lot of crappy games have been released lately. TOR is going to be P2P. Might have an item shop for some clothes or other minor junk, but hte main part of the game is based on a subscription. Same with Champions Online. These look like they have a chance of being Good GAmes, but if theya re crap, they will go F2P with item shop. Number one money maker STILL Pay to Play, not F2P. Yes, we're talking WoW. Number one reason I like P2P is the community. I want to play with ONLY other players that can and will fork over at least 14.95 per month to play the game. I do NOT want to play with anyone that can log on but won't or can't pay 14.95 a month to play the game. Sucks to lose your sub that you've invested 14.95 a month on for several months, but why not be an asshat if it's free.
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Pay to play for limited numbers of instances ? Thats WOW Pay to play for Laggy RVR content ? Thats WAR Pay to play for DX10 that isn't in ? Thats AOC
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Originally posted by Lobotomist
no my little padawan:
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... i feel trainwreck coming)
