Originally posted by Diross

Looking at so many games over the years, why aren't more sandbox MMORPG's being made over the number of linear MMORPG's?  

In my opinion people want to be entertained rather then work for things themself. Look at WoW, WAR, AoC etc. All the themepark MMO's have one thing in common and that is that players don't need to really put a lot of effort into being entertained. They can start a character and just follow the story, there is raid content pvp content etc. All players have to do is gather some friends and go do them. and usually to have fun you have to do some of the content that is created as people seem unable to actually create their own fun.

A sandbox MMO on the other hand is the opposite, players are thrown out in a world and pretty much left to themself. The beauty of SWG Pre NGE was just this. You started a character and there was no one to hold your hand and tell you where to go and what to do. My first steps in the game was done by walking around and looking at Bestine. Finding the mission terminal and choosing a mission. Later on when my characters skills was maxed it was time to start experience the world and you would start looking for resources for the guild crafter, build a house and decorate it. It was up to you as a palyer to create your own fun, no one held your hand and forced you to raid dungeons to have fun. You could sit in the cantina, roleplay, talk, or just chill having a great time with friends ingame, If you wanted to try something new you simply retrained your character. In the end you built up a reputation for your character which pretty much followed you throughout your career. PvP was fun as there was always some fighting going on, and alliances and politics actually did matter in the big fights.

Damn I miss Good old SWG :(

Originally posted by Crashloop

Originally posted by Diross

Looking at so many games over the years, why aren't more sandbox MMORPG's being made over the number of linear MMORPG's?  

 

In my opinion people want to be entertained rather then work for things themself. Look at WoW, WAR, AoC etc. All the themepark MMO's have one thing in common and that is that players don't need to really put a lot of effort into being entertained. They can start a character and just follow the story, there is raid content pvp content etc. All players have to do is gather some friends and go do them. and usually to have fun you have to do some of the content that is created as people seem unable to actually create their own fun.

A sandbox MMO on the other hand is the opposite, players are thrown out in a world and pretty much left to themself. The beauty of SWG Pre NGE was just this. You started a character and there was no one to hold your hand and tell you where to go and what to do. My first steps in the game was done by walking around and looking at Bestine. Finding the mission terminal and choosing a mission. Later on when my characters skills was maxed it was time to start experience the world and you would start looking for resources for the guild crafter, build a house and decorate it. It was up to you as a palyer to create your own fun, no one held your hand and forced you to raid dungeons to have fun. You could sit in the cantina, roleplay, talk, or just chill having a great time with friends ingame, If you wanted to try something new you simply retrained your character. In the end you built up a reputation for your character which pretty much followed you throughout your career. PvP was fun as there was always some fighting going on, and alliances and politics actually did matter in the big fights.

Damn I miss Good old SWG :(

Agreed. I think sandboxes are a niche and although still a potentially profitable niche they're trickier to make than a linear themepark so it's not surprising which way the dev money goes. I think the way to do a sandbox is to combine it with another niche e.g sandbox plus ultra-PvP or sandbox plus ultra-crafting and then gradually add more and more elements to it, including small themeparks scattered around inside the open-ended box or, as others have said, model it on the Fallout, elder scrolls way of doing things minus the main quest e.g i modded Morrowind so that the main quest didn't start until you were either a guild leader or head of a house. If you do something like that then those games are very like mmorpgs where you just wander around bumping into quest mini-themeparks rather than being led by the nose.

Originally posted by tupodawg999

Agreed. I think sandboxes are a niche and although still a potentially profitable niche they're trickier to make than a linear themepark so it's not surprising which way the dev money goes. I think the way to do a sandbox is to combine it with another niche e.g sandbox plus ultra-PvP or sandbox plus ultra-crafting and then gradually add more and more elements to it, including small themeparks scattered around inside the open-ended box or, as others have said, model it on the Fallout, elder scrolls way of doing things minus the main quest e.g i modded Morrowind so that the main quest didn't start until you were either a guild leader or head of a house. If you do something like that then those games are very like mmorpgs where you just wander around bumping into quest mini-themeparks rather than being led by the nose.

Why would you combine something niche with something extra niche, shutting out more players? The beauty of the sandbox is that it provides options and rewards all courses.  You CAN do a themepark mission trail, or you can just farm beets and rp with your 'wife' and 'kids' Or you can chart new maps and areas, or write books and run a library for other characters/players.

The idea of Sandbox being hardcore or PVP-centric is killing the genre imho. More options, not less, or what's the point?

Originally posted by Hype

Originally posted by tupodawg999

Agreed. I think sandboxes are a niche and although still a potentially profitable niche they're trickier to make than a linear themepark so it's not surprising which way the dev money goes. I think the way to do a sandbox is to combine it with another niche e.g sandbox plus ultra-PvP or sandbox plus ultra-crafting and then gradually add more and more elements to it, including small themeparks scattered around inside the open-ended box or, as others have said, model it on the Fallout, elder scrolls way of doing things minus the main quest e.g i modded Morrowind so that the main quest didn't start until you were either a guild leader or head of a house. If you do something like that then those games are very like mmorpgs where you just wander around bumping into quest mini-themeparks rather than being led by the nose.

 

Why would you combine something niche with something extra niche, shutting out more players? The beauty of the sandbox is that it provides options and rewards all courses.  You CAN do a themepark mission trail, or you can just farm beets and rp with your 'wife' and 'kids' Or you can chart new maps and areas, or write books and run a library for other characters/players.

The idea of Sandbox being hardcore or PVP-centric is killing the genre imho. More options, not less, or what's the point?

The one thing that interest me with sandbox is simply the idea to become who you want, rather then become who the developers planned for you to be. I loved SWG pre-NGE for this. It had all the tools needed to become either the most feared player in PvP or known as the best crafter on the server. And it wasn't just because of the classes you choosed but your ability to use the tools provided by the game. Smugglers were selling information about bases vunereblities on their faction side to be able to sell more themself. There was a lot of things that made that game really good. The worst thing a sandbox MMO can do is try to cater just one part of the population.

A true sand-box MMORPG will never be created until a company has the balls and the genius to release the source code and allow players to build their own quests and dungeons.  If they can figure out how to do this, build an interface that non-programmers could build things into the world, prevent hackers and exploiters from ruining the world, then....

then we will all throw our T.V.s out the window, cancel our WoW subscriptions, and get divorces because this will be the MMORPG that destroys modern civilization.

Originally posted by Crashloop 

The one thing that interest me with sandbox is simply the idea to become who you want, rather then become who the developers planned for you to be. I loved SWG pre-NGE for this. It had all the tools needed to become either the most feared player in PvP or known as the best crafter on the server. And it wasn't just because of the classes you choosed but your ability to use the tools provided by the game. Smugglers were selling information about bases vunereblities on their faction side to be able to sell more themself. There was a lot of things that made that game really good. The worst thing a sandbox MMO can do is try to cater just one part of the population.

That makes sense.  I misunderstood what you meant by "ultra PvP"