Originally posted by holdenhamlet

I wasn't following LOTRO when it was released, but it's my understanding that it made certain statements that would make you feel more assured about forking over money for a lifetime sub, such as their plan to run the game for 10 years, and more importantly their guarantee of quarterly updates.

I haven't seen anything like that from Cryptic about Champions Online, but I may have just not seen it.  In any case, I would look for something like that before making a two-year commitment (which is basically what a lifetime sub is).  Also, it should be noted that not every studio's statements should be taken at face value (such as Warhammer's "This will be the only game you will ever have to buy for the rest of your life.")

LOTRO is probably the only game with lifetime subs that has actually succeeded long enough for it to be worth the money and turn out to be a good deal.  I've met people in the game and they're very happy with their lifetime subs, because not only has it paid off by now and they are playing for free, but it also allows them to leave and come back to the game whenever they want, like they always have a free decent game on the side while they try out different games.

So many MMORPGs are released to hype and fail (for all intents and purposes) within 3 months.  Unless you have some reason to think that Champions Online is definately not like most recently released MMORPGs, I'd be wary of getting a lifetime sub.

Luckily CO only needs a little over 1 year for a lifetime sub to pay for itself.

I've played the game, its not going to fail at 3 months... or even 3 years.  And the company has the hot ticket of the Star Trek license to work on... even if that game blows absolute chunks its license alone will carry the company for at least a couple years.

So wait, WoW has a 6 month sub for $77.94. Does that mean they have no confidence in their product because they just want your money for 6 months? Lifetime is just like doing a big discount sub in any other MMO, but instead of only being able to play for X months, you can play for as long as the game is up. If you know it's something you're gonna play for awhile, it would be stupid not to do it. I did it for LotRO, and come next week I'll know if I'm gonna do it for Champions (knowing that the game will only get better with future patches/content).

Originally posted by NeoDrakeskin

So wait, WoW has a 6 month sub for $77.94. Does that mean they have no confidence in their product because they just want your money for 6 months? Lifetime is just like doing a big discount sub in any other MMO, but instead of only being able to play for X months, you can play for as long as the game is up. If you know it's something you're gonna play for awhile, it would be stupid not to do it. I did it for LotRO, and come next week I'll know if I'm gonna do it for Champions (knowing that the game will only get better with future patches/content).

Im wondering a bit myself. Its one thing to do the lifetime sub option with something you know you like and another thing entirely for someting you havnt tried. I would like to get into STO beta but im not going to sub to something im not even interested in to do it. Something doesnt feel right to me. CO could be a great game as STO could as well but should have could have is all to common in todays MMO market.

This whole argument over the lifetime subs remains ridiculous.  The lifetime sub is more for the people who've been in closed beta and those going into open.  Someone that signs up for a lifetiem sub without ever playing the game is utterly ... well lets just not go there shall we?   If your not getting into Open and you've not been in Closed then the Lifetime isn't for you so there's no reason to complain or make retarded accusations of omg PWN failure.  

Originally posted by banthis

This whole argument over the lifetime subs remains ridiculous.  The lifetime sub is more for the people who've been in closed beta and those going into open.  Someone that signs up for a lifetiem sub without ever playing the game is utterly ... well lets just not go there shall we?   If your not getting into Open and you've not been in Closed then the Lifetime isn't for you so there's no reason to complain or make retarded accusations of omg PWN failure.  

 

This. 

Originally posted by elderotter

Originally posted by Legato89

Originally posted by elderotter

Wow, 9 pages spent debating the success of a game still about 3 weeks from launch.  You people need to play a game and wait till the damn thing comes out.  Myself, I pre-ordered it, will beta it next week.  If it sucks I will have wasted $50.  To whoever counted in the cost of their computer towrds the expense of the game - what - you bought your computer to only play 1 game and use it for nothing else? No other games, no email, news, blogs, sports, movies, nothing?  Hmmmm, my computer is used for many things not just, potentially, CO.

 

Waste $50? Why not just cancel your preorder?

Whether or not it is wasted remains to be seen - the whole sentence read "If it sucks I will have wasted $50".  I remain positive the $50 is not wasted and that I will have a good time playing the game.  However, I have played many games - single player and MMO's... some were worth the cost and some were a waste of time and money.  Speculating on which it will be before I have played it is not really worth anything.  It will be what it will be, time will tell.  Also I have beta tested a few games and loved the beta and then hated what was released - so I will play the beta of CO and reserve my actual opinion on the game until I have played the released version.

 

What? I mean, if in open beta you find out the game sucks why not cancel your preorder, saving your $50 you put towards it.

After playing some I jumped on the Lifetime offer without hesitating. It's fun enough to easily pay for itself for me. And I see no reason to believe the game won't last long enough to make it worthwhile.

Originally posted by Emotep

It's like saying "We don't have confidence that our game will have high subscription retention".   Every game I can think of that has a lifetime subscription has been a failure.  (EG. WW2 Online)

I thought about getting Champions since Cryptic made City of Heroes which was a decent game, but then I saw the lifetime subscription thing, coupled with the game being published by Atari of all companies....

No this is wrong,

the definite signal of failsure of a game is the game going "free to play" (microtransaction).

this is the modern alternative to going bankrupt right away.

BTW: LOTR runs quite good despite lifetime subscription option. i do not play it but quite a lot of my friends do and many of them owned the life time sub.

Edit: i hate typos :)

Originally posted by upsilonmerc

The microtransactions everyone is so worried about has been stated as only for vanity pets and extra customizationable pieces for character creation, etc.     http://news.bigdownload.com/2009/07/16/champions-online-to-support-micro-transactions-at-launch/

 

If you're going to post a link to back up your point, read it first:

"Most of them will be for non-gameplay affecting items like costume additions, action figures, and the like. You can also spend money on things like renaming one of your characters. You can also purchase items that do affect gameplay but Cryptic adds, "Any micro-transaction that has a game effect can also be earned in the game through play."

Aside from your mistake, another issue is HOW you can earn those buyable items. Will it take 6 months of farming an end-level boss? Will it be available to earn for only a limited time?

Look, I've had more than a year of carefully-worded double-speak from Mythic about Warhammer to teach me that devs will mislead us without outright lying if they can.

Lotro had a life time subscription... Don't be an idiot and insult games for stupid reasons, People don't like idiots.

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Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

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Originally posted by upsilonmerc

The microtransactions everyone is so worried about has been stated as only for vanity pets and extra customizationable pieces for character creation, etc.     http://news.bigdownload.com/2009/07/16/champions-online-to-support-micro-transactions-at-launch/
 

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If you're going to post a link to back up your point, read it first:
"Most of them will be for non-gameplay affecting items like costume additions, action figures, and the like. You can also spend money on things like renaming one of your characters. You can also purchase items that do affect gameplay but Cryptic adds, "Any micro-transaction that has a game effect can also be earned in the game through play."
 
Aside from your mistake, another issue is HOW you can earn those buyable items. Will it take 6 months of farming an end-level boss? Will it be available to earn for only a limited time?
Look, I've had more than a year of carefully-worded double-speak from Mythic about Warhammer to teach me that devs will mislead us without outright lying if they can.

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They aren't called 'Cryptic' for nothing.

I'm tired of paying these suck ass game companies monthly fees. The gameplay is subpar to any other multiplayer games out there that are free to play. And the single player games are better too. With the amount of players that just prefer to solo everything nowadays, all you are paying for is the companys' server rentals.

Originally posted by Palebane

I'm tired of paying these suck ass game companies monthly fees. The gameplay is subpar to any other multiplayer games out there that are free to play. And the single player games are better too. With the amount of players that just prefer to solo everything nowadays, all you are paying for is the companys' server rentals.

We are also paying for the grind - which makes people who have accomplished nothing in real life feel worthwhile.

It basically is just a marketing ploy. I wish more new MMO did this to be honest. Lets be realistic even the worst MMOs out there usually stay open 2 to 3 yrs. So if you do like a game and others do not  and you buy this most likely you will save money and the people this is marketed to are the ones who are the die hard fans of the game who play 8+ hrs a day everyday.  Also if you look at Champions marketing of this they are not going out of there way to promote it. Infact it is only running to I beleive Aug 31 when I viewed it.  If it was as the open poster is suggesting I highly doubt they would  remove it so fast and also they would market it allot more.

I just wish people would start to give alot of these new MMO a chance and get off the damn WoW horse already.  WoW  basically was a fan based driven game at start then developted into the casual market . You really cannot use it as a model to compair most new MMO success. Unless the MMO had a base like WoW did prior to it. I can see games in the future like Star trek, Star Gate, and Star Wars being compaired to WoW because of the huge fan base prior to MMO conception. But other games not really. Yes champions has a small fan base in the pen and paper but realistically nothing in terms of the warcraft series or other's listed above.People fail to realize that. Before WoW most successful MMO had a base of 200 to 400k subs. WoW comes along and scores well over that due to fanbase from there warcraft and starcraft series giving them a huge boost and everyone assumes that is the new benchmark.  People will most likely  flame me for the comment about  Bliz fanbase giving them a huge start but that is fact not fiction.  Bliz leadership has even stated something to this effect many times during interviews. When I first got into beta for WoW most  people I met all they talked about was warcraft this or that and hoped they would make a  starcraft mmo in the future. I do not know about you guys but its getting alittle boring with the  few companies we do have now making the same old same old with new skins. I do play WoW still as a way to relax from raidng on other MMOs but those MMO and WoW are starting to wear thin and nothing  seems to be getting much better with expansions. These new MMO could be fun and interesting if given a chance. I just hope they stop trying to be clones soon and stop listening to the clonetards.

Originally posted by taloshz

It basically is just a marketing ploy. I wish more new MMO did this to be honest. Lets be realistic even the worst MMOs out there usually stay open 2 to 3 yrs. So if you do like a game and others do not  and you buy this most likely you will save money and the people this is marketed to are the ones who are the die hard fans of the game who play 8+ hrs a day everyday.  Also if you look at Champions marketing of this they are not going out of there way to promote it. Infact it is only running to I beleive Aug 31 when I viewed it.  If it was as the open poster is suggesting I highly doubt they would  remove it so fast and also they would market it allot more.

If it wasn't shady, why pull the offer before release - before most potential buyers will have seen what the game is like? Why not offer it 6 months after release, when people know how great it is?

As for giving other games a chance - just being 'not WoW' isn't enough for me. Add that to the lifetime offer, minimal PvP, and the cash shop = no deal to me. I want something other than WoW and Warhammer to play, and I'd like a good Supers game. I've seen nothing especially good about this game, and plenty bad.

 I find it ironical how the lifetime subscription offer expires at the game release, it basically forces you to judge a game based on its beta.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by taloshz

It basically is just a marketing ploy. I wish more new MMO did this to be honest. Lets be realistic even the worst MMOs out there usually stay open 2 to 3 yrs. So if you do like a game and others do not  and you buy this most likely you will save money and the people this is marketed to are the ones who are the die hard fans of the game who play 8+ hrs a day everyday.  Also if you look at Champions marketing of this they are not going out of there way to promote it. Infact it is only running to I beleive Aug 31 when I viewed it.  If it was as the open poster is suggesting I highly doubt they would  remove it so fast and also they would market it allot more.

If it wasn't shady, why pull the offer before release - before most potential buyers will have seen what the game is like? Why not offer it 6 months after release, when people know how great it is?

As for giving other games a chance - just being 'not WoW' isn't enough for me. Add that to the lifetime offer, minimal PvP, and the cash shop = no deal to me. I want something other than WoW and Warhammer to play, and I'd like a good Supers game. I've seen nothing especially good about this game, and plenty bad.

its not shady its for those of us that pre ordered thats why its being pulled on 9/1 its one of the advantages of pre ordering and ill decide if its worth it starting tomarrow .

I guess this should probably be looked at differently I think. Most MMO come out with collectors editions and such. They usually cost a ton more then normal box and come with special things most wont be able to get. I think these 2 options the 6 month and the lifetime with the beta access to ST and other items is basically there collectors edition. I am seriously betting there will be a 6 month sub after release . So basically the only option thatr will not be around  is the lifetime I bet. but never know they may bring that back at special times with different benefits. As to the comments about this game being poor and the reasoning because of  cash store and pvp.

That is your opinion and your welcome to it. I am quite honestly happy for once a new MMO is not completely revolving around PVP. I used to  have no problems with PVP and infact I used to enjoy it. But  most PVP games today are more interested in creating a mindless bloodbath then having real battles or skill. I miss alot of the fights in games like NWN on aol yah it was a mud but the pvp there was fun. Today you get to listen to someone with  a IQ in the single digits curse and cheat or other things if  they die or do not win all the time.

As to your cash store. I am not too happy with it myself but unfortunately I highly doubt you are going to find any game in the future without one eventrually. Even the so called high moral companies now will cave into the all mighty dollar. Everquest II has that cash store now and basically its just for stupid little things that do have stats. But they are so minimal they do not do jack in game and the only things people tend to buy are illusions and furniture for homes. I do not know how Champions is implementing theres but this seems to be the Norm in every pay MMO that I have seen that has a cash store. If this is how its implemented I think it wont be a problem. If not  the customer base usally ends up changing what is sold in those stores eventually.  I hate them myself but  I have come to the conclusion they are here to stay and will be in every MMO eventually . Companies are trying to come up with more ways to pay for hardware and service without rasing  sub cost no one will pay 20+ a month for a game so  thats why these stupidn stores are popping up.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by taloshz

It basically is just a marketing ploy. I wish more new MMO did this to be honest. Lets be realistic even the worst MMOs out there usually stay open 2 to 3 yrs. So if you do like a game and others do not  and you buy this most likely you will save money and the people this is marketed to are the ones who are the die hard fans of the game who play 8+ hrs a day everyday.  Also if you look at Champions marketing of this they are not going out of there way to promote it. Infact it is only running to I beleive Aug 31 when I viewed it.  If it was as the open poster is suggesting I highly doubt they would  remove it so fast and also they would market it allot more.

If it wasn't shady, why pull the offer before release - before most potential buyers will have seen what the game is like? Why not offer it 6 months after release, when people know how great it is?

As for giving other games a chance - just being 'not WoW' isn't enough for me. Add that to the lifetime offer, minimal PvP, and the cash shop = no deal to me. I want something other than WoW and Warhammer to play, and I'd like a good Supers game. I've seen nothing especially good about this game, and plenty bad.

With the OB beta a great many people will see the product and stil be able to decide on the lifetime sub. only the more hardcore fans of MMOs or  the Supers Genre are likely to buy a lifetime sub anyway and I am guessing most of those will  try the beta....AND report on it as the NDA comes off today as well.
 

I think there will be plently of informed decision opportunities for those who are still on the fence about lifetime, 6 month, or other sub options.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by taloshz

It basically is just a marketing ploy. I wish more new MMO did this to be honest. Lets be realistic even the worst MMOs out there usually stay open 2 to 3 yrs. So if you do like a game and others do not  and you buy this most likely you will save money and the people this is marketed to are the ones who are the die hard fans of the game who play 8+ hrs a day everyday.  Also if you look at Champions marketing of this they are not going out of there way to promote it. Infact it is only running to I beleive Aug 31 when I viewed it.  If it was as the open poster is suggesting I highly doubt they would  remove it so fast and also they would market it allot more.

If it wasn't shady, why pull the offer before release - before most potential buyers will have seen what the game is like? Why not offer it 6 months after release, when people know how great it is?

I can picture you calling up a cruise line.

"So why does this cruise cost 300 dollars now, but if I wait until a few days before it leaves it costs 1,000 dollars? I don't understand, that sounds shady"

They are offering you a deal now. Don't take it or do, thats your choice. It is not 'shady', it's no different than a cruise ship or airline willing to cut you a discount if you book early.