Originally posted by grandpagamer

Originally posted by Palebane

This genre no longer offers anything that other genres cannot offer besides persistent server rental. If you want to pay 15$ to rent their servers for them, then go ahead. MMORPG players have come to expect to pay monthly fees. And nowadays they are getting ripped off as the quality of play gets worse and worse (in my opinion). If they tried to get players to pay monthly subscriptions for multiplayer FPS or RTS games, they would laugh. Again, MMOs no longer offer anything more than these other free-to-play genres. There's no longer any need for the subscription fees.

They are in business and need to make money one way or the other to pay the bills. Name your poison, FTP with a cashshop or PTP. Someone is paying for these games one way or the other and from what little ive seen of FTP i would pay more than the $15 a month to the cash shop. What i see coming that i dont like is cash shops on top of a monthy fee.

How come all these other genres who do frequent patch and content updates do not require a monthly fee and are still in business?

Originally posted by Palebane

Originally posted by grandpagamer

Originally posted by Palebane

This genre no longer offers anything that other genres cannot offer besides persistent server rental. If you want to pay 15$ to rent their servers for them, then go ahead. MMORPG players have come to expect to pay monthly fees. And nowadays they are getting ripped off as the quality of play gets worse and worse (in my opinion). If they tried to get players to pay monthly subscriptions for multiplayer FPS or RTS games, they would laugh. Again, MMOs no longer offer anything more than these other free-to-play genres. There's no longer any need for the subscription fees.

They are in business and need to make money one way or the other to pay the bills. Name your poison, FTP with a cashshop or PTP. Someone is paying for these games one way or the other and from what little ive seen of FTP i would pay more than the $15 a month to the cash shop. What i see coming that i dont like is cash shops on top of a monthy fee.

 

How come all these other genres who do frequent patch and content updates do not require a monthly fee and are still in business?

Honesty i do not know as i dont play FPS or RTS games online. But they are making money at some point or the games wouldnt continue to exist as onlne games. Its my understanding that the "worlds" in these games are not as big and do not need as many servers as the player numbers arnt as big either. Dont know, just speculation.

Originally posted by Mithrandolir

Persistence requires an environment to exist in. That environment is not free. Somehow it's getting paid for, whether it be through cash item shops, monthly fees, expansion sales, all of the above, etc...

I'll gladly pay 15 dollars per month to avoid the cash shop (I know, they're starting to add these WITH the monthly fee which I hate) or F2P atmosphere. If I get that atmosphere anyway, i simply don;t pay the monthly fee anymore. It's fairly simple.

FPS games don't have the monthly fee, but they don't have the persistence or extensive database maintenance either.

TF2 and GTA 4, with all the achievements and other database/server fees, do not require a monthly subscription. What makes a server persistant, the fact that there is always someone on it? There are plenty of FPS and RTS servers that are "persistant".

Originally posted by grandpagamer

Originally posted by Palebane

Originally posted by grandpagamer

Originally posted by Palebane

This genre no longer offers anything that other genres cannot offer besides persistent server rental. If you want to pay 15$ to rent their servers for them, then go ahead. MMORPG players have come to expect to pay monthly fees. And nowadays they are getting ripped off as the quality of play gets worse and worse (in my opinion). If they tried to get players to pay monthly subscriptions for multiplayer FPS or RTS games, they would laugh. Again, MMOs no longer offer anything more than these other free-to-play genres. There's no longer any need for the subscription fees.

They are in business and need to make money one way or the other to pay the bills. Name your poison, FTP with a cashshop or PTP. Someone is paying for these games one way or the other and from what little ive seen of FTP i would pay more than the $15 a month to the cash shop. What i see coming that i dont like is cash shops on top of a monthy fee.

 

How come all these other genres who do frequent patch and content updates do not require a monthly fee and are still in business?

Honesty i do not know as i dont play FPS or RTS games online. But they are making money at some point or the games wouldnt continue to exist as onlne games. Its my understanding that the "worlds" in these games are not as big and do not need as many servers as the player numbers arnt as big either. Dont know, just speculation.

I understand. I'm basically playing devil's advocate here just for the sake of discussion. Personally, I can no longer justify even minimal subscriptions fees for games that are of lesser quality than free games just because they have the MMO label on them.

Originally posted by Palebane

I understand. I'm basically playing devil's advocate here just for the sake of discussion. Personally, I can no longer justify even minimal subscriptions fees for games that are of lesser quality than free games just because they have the MMO label on them.

Well that is a logical and educated decision if you feel that way. I only pay subscriptions to games that I find vastly superior to the F2P games that I have played. There are a few F2P games that I think are decent for what they are, but none of them can touch the mmorpgs that I pay to play. In my opinion of course...

If I found none of the fee based mmorpgs to have anything for me over F2P options, surely I would not be paying any fee :)

With that said, I find a huge amount of current P2P mmorpg's to fall short of deserving the right to charge a fee. So I get what you're saying. I wouldn't dream of paying for these games for anything longer than the time it took me to realize how much they don't fit my idea of fun :) But since everyone has a different idea of value and fun, there are folks who find the games i hate to be completely worth the fee. No way I can argue that... to each their own :)

Originally posted by Palebane

Originally posted by grandpagamer

Originally posted by Palebane

Originally posted by grandpagamer

Originally posted by Palebane

This genre no longer offers anything that other genres cannot offer besides persistent server rental. If you want to pay 15$ to rent their servers for them, then go ahead. MMORPG players have come to expect to pay monthly fees. And nowadays they are getting ripped off as the quality of play gets worse and worse (in my opinion). If they tried to get players to pay monthly subscriptions for multiplayer FPS or RTS games, they would laugh. Again, MMOs no longer offer anything more than these other free-to-play genres. There's no longer any need for the subscription fees.

They are in business and need to make money one way or the other to pay the bills. Name your poison, FTP with a cashshop or PTP. Someone is paying for these games one way or the other and from what little ive seen of FTP i would pay more than the $15 a month to the cash shop. What i see coming that i dont like is cash shops on top of a monthy fee.

 

How come all these other genres who do frequent patch and content updates do not require a monthly fee and are still in business?

Honesty i do not know as i dont play FPS or RTS games online. But they are making money at some point or the games wouldnt continue to exist as onlne games. Its my understanding that the "worlds" in these games are not as big and do not need as many servers as the player numbers arnt as big either. Dont know, just speculation.

I understand. I'm basically playing devil's advocate here just for the sake of discussion. Personally, I can no longer justify even minimal subscriptions fees for games that are of lesser quality than free games just because they have the MMO label on them.

I know what your saying. If played most of what is supposed to be the best of the genre, you notice i say played as i am not currently subbed to anything. Ive been running hot and cold on Aion for sometime but as you say finding something worth the money is tough. I have and have played some good single player games but enjoy the online play with others even if its just to wave at someone now and  then.  So i will do the Aion beta the rest of the weekend and keep an eye on Star Trek Online as being an old geezer i was actually around when Capt. Kirk first took flight and have been a fan of the series for years but if it will live up to the hype is doubtful.  :)

Originally posted by sdkkbc

 After all the promises and Hype about no monthly fees I see that greed has prevailed and a monthly fee will apply.

I dont mind paying for the game as I did gladly for Guild Wars but I wont be buying  Aion now.

I wonder how mant others feel this way.

Wow. Who made these " promises " that  there was  no monthly fee? Or " hyping " it as having no monthly fee? It sure wasn't NCSoft doing it.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by sdkkbc

 After all the promises and Hype about no monthly fees I see that greed has prevailed and a monthly fee will apply.

I dont mind paying for the game as I did gladly for Guild Wars but I wont be buying  Aion now.

I wonder how mant others feel this way.

 

it seems that we are having several recent "one post" users who are signing in to essentially state bizzare or negative things that really have no basis in reality.

what the heck is wrong with you people?

It's called shilling, it happens all the time on these boards around the time a game is getting ready to go live. It's just a way of elighting a fire under the doubt of casual broswers and spreading false rumour and nagative sentiment about a title. The rub though is that you arnt, under mmorpg.com rules, allowed to call them shills or you yourself will get a warning while they just carry on as usual.

oh well.

Originally posted by Darkogie

Originally posted by sdkkbc

 After all the promises and Hype about no monthly fees I see that greed has prevailed and a monthly fee will apply.

I dont mind paying for the game as I did gladly for Guild Wars but I wont be buying  Aion now.

I wonder how mant others feel this way.

 

Wow. Who made these " promises " that  there was  no monthly fee? Or " hyping " it as having no monthly fee? It sure wasn't NCSoft doing it.

It stemed from miss informed morons who didnt understand that china and korea has a different payment model, then they came here thinking they knew everything, saying how there will be no monthly fees. 

Then people like sdkkbc who believes everything they read and took it to heart and got dissapointed because he bought into miss informed statements.

Both types of people have no place in a forum IMO.

 Yeah as someone stated earlier the people making these topics aren't really people... more like 'person' 

I really don't understand why they are going through so much trouble, I mean i'm not even an Aion fan but I could care less if people are playing it or not... I guess it bothers this person if it is a success for a select group of gamers? Come on now PvP players will probably love this game and have a lot of fun with it so what is the big deal >_>;

Originally posted by sdkkbc

I wonder how mant others feel this way.

No one who is serious about having MMOs as a hobby.  And no one who can afford .50 cents or so a day to be entertained for hours.

Originally posted by seniorfrito

And don't say Guild Wars.  You get what you pay for with any game including that one.  I just tried picking up Guild Wars last night for about an hour and couldn't stand it.  Don't get me wrong, Guild Wars was ahead of it's time when it came out, but it has gone so downhill, or rather it hasn't ever gone uphill.

Well, that could be your personal opinion, but Guild Wars do stand. and it stands well. Though you've to move out of generic MMORPG play style.

They have a pre-release sell, but I think there should be a limited trial or open beta for plaync account holders. I don't like to (and probably few more people) pay for a game with super grind like L2.

Originally posted by vatzcar

Originally posted by seniorfrito

And don't say Guild Wars.  You get what you pay for with any game including that one.  I just tried picking up Guild Wars last night for about an hour and couldn't stand it.  Don't get me wrong, Guild Wars was ahead of it's time when it came out, but it has gone so downhill, or rather it hasn't ever gone uphill.

 

Well, that could be your personal opinion, but Guild Wars do stand. and it stands well. Though you've to move out of generic MMORPG play style.

They have a pre-release sell, but I think there should be a limited trial or open beta for plaync account holders. I don't like to (and probably few more people) pay for a game with super grind like L2.

NC has been pretty good about trial keys in the past. Won't be at release I am sure, but I bet you'll see short trials for Aion included with future NC titles. If people want in at launch, that's the risk they take. If someone doesn't like the risk, no need to play right at launch. A lot of folks take a "watch and see" approach now with these titles... the industry has almost forced it in that direction with the quality of some recent titles and launches.

Me? I'm a glutton for punishment :) So here I am... again! :)

It would be nice if MMO's were cheaper, 10 bucks/mo instead of 15. I'd be able to keep 3 subs. With all the new titles coming up, I could get my fantasy, modern and sci-fi fix.

Originally posted by Mithrandolir 

A lot of folks take a "watch and see" approach now with these titles... the industry has almost forced it in that direction with the quality of some recent titles and launches.

Why whatever could you mean?  Wonder what titles you could be referring to? :P

Yeah, apparently I'm rather masochistic myself when it comes to mmos because once again I find myself jumping in at launch rather than waiting things out to see how the chips fall.  Least in this case the game has been out overseas for some time so assuming NCSoft's servers don't blow up when it goes alive we should be able to forego some of the messes we've seen in the past.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by sdkkbc

 After all the promises and Hype about no monthly fees I see that greed has prevailed and a monthly fee will apply.

I dont mind paying for the game as I did gladly for Guild Wars but I wont be buying  Aion now.

I wonder how mant others feel this way.

 

it seems that we are having several recent "one post" users who are signing in to essentially state bizzare or negative things that really have no basis in reality.

what the heck is wrong with you people?

you have to ask? lol! It goes with the terriory.
 

Originally posted by Palebane

TF2 and GTA 4, with all the achievements and other database/server fees, do not require a monthly subscription. What makes a server persistant, the fact that there is always someone on it? There are plenty of FPS and RTS servers that are "persistant".

Haven't played GTA4, but TF2 servers usually hold about 32 people, correct?  Keeping track of achievements is a nominal database function. 

Once you add Auction Houses, crafting, hundreds if not thousands of pieces of armor, the contents of everyone's bank, quest tracking, a world thousands of times bigger than a TF2 map with thousands of people on the same server, you begin to get an idea of the difference between a persistent RPG world and a small PVP server in someone's house.

Servers that can handle that kind of load are not cheap, hence the monthly fee. I'm certain they're not looking to break even on this, but it's the basic reason fees are charged one would think.

Originally posted by Zsavooz

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by sdkkbc

 After all the promises and Hype about no monthly fees I see that greed has prevailed and a monthly fee will apply.

I dont mind paying for the game as I did gladly for Guild Wars but I wont be buying  Aion now.

I wonder how mant others feel this way.

 

it seems that we are having several recent "one post" users who are signing in to essentially state bizzare or negative things that really have no basis in reality.

what the heck is wrong with you people?

you have to ask? lol! It goes with the terriory.
 

Just one person's opinion of the game-Aion will be a very successful game, despite what the OP believes. The game just didn't appeal to him and that's okay.