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Originally posted by Ozmodan
Try Fallen Earth and Earthrise, both fit your category.  I wonder why you bothered to write the article?

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First of all Fallen Earth isn't even close to being what the article was about, sure hope you read the whole thing.

Earthrise I am not sure on as I have not played it.

But I'd love to see a MMO like this - a TRUE survival horror MMO.

Originally posted by kamenwati

Originally posted by Onitora

I have to say I am disappointed with a lot of the suggestions for this type of game.  Talk of levels, raids, quest NPCs and the like.  How does that make any sense at all with regard to the context of the article's repeated plea for the game to be a 'SANDBOX MMO'?

As the article pointed out, the only way to truly bring a game to life in this particular genre would be with a skill-based system; you have to learn the skills you need for survival, and that isn't just combat skills.  This is a great way to share prominent focus of combat and non-combat skills and give it all actual meaning in a game, and yet so many replies seem to shift right back to MMO-mode with quests, levels, raids, PVP, etc - totally disregarding the article's 'SANDBOX' requirement.  In MY opinion, if you want to see an MMO in this genre be true to the survival horror genre, you have to really let go of almost ALL of the MMO traditions; otherwise the suspension of disbelief isn't going to happen.

If a game like this were going to be developed, and it had levels, NPCs, quests and the like I would be tremendously disappointed.  All of those elements alleviate a significant portion of the 'interdependency' required, (and mentioned several times in the article,) and encourage the soloing type of gameplay that is definitely something to be 'discouraged' I'll say at least.  Survival Horror as a genre is at it's core about people having to pull together for mutual protection in the hopes of mutual proliferation, and the eventual reclaiming of the world that had been lost.

As for the 'feeling alone' part of the game, that's where the absence of NPCs plays a part.  I think you'd be surprised how strangely 'alone' a game would feel if the NPCs were non-existent.  No forced / artificial / far-fetched connection to the game world - just the other players.  Think about it...  You'd have to rely on other people exclusively...  Scary thought huh?  That alone would lead to 'guilds' or 'factions' developing naturally, (which is an awesome propsal if you ask me.)

It'd be a genuine innovation to properly execute a game like this.

If Fallen Earth had decided on this genre facet of the post-apocalytic theme, (they have the sandbox part covered from what I've read, what with scavenging for crafting / building materials etc.) then they might have a bigger potential hit on their hands, in my opinion.

 

Sometimes things that look nifty are a pain in the ass to read.

Noted.  I guess I don't often enough take into account that not everyone is trying to read these forums has a 55" LCD to do it on.  I didn't realize Times New Roman qualified as 'nifty' these days.  : )  I was just looking for some slight derivation from the standard is all.  My apologies to anyone else that might have been offended by the 'nifty-ness' of my font choice.  : D

You just described fallen earth for me.

 thank god im part of the devlepment team of the mmofps zday!

www.zdaygame.com

i think its the closest thing to what this post is talking about.

There was exanimus, but thats been put on hold.

I totally agree with your entire article. I too have thought the zombie survival theme would be perfect for an MMORPG.

Of course, it would need to be done right. I'm talking about HUGE hordes of undead coming at your outside the safe zones where it is literally very difficult to stay alive. A game like this absolutely cannot be easy mode.

What about the concept of perma-death? In a game like this where survival really matters and things like character progression are not necessarily based on gear, I think that having your character actually die would be friggin' awesome. Imagine how much more you would be invested in it if the mindless horde of zombies can actually finish your dude off for good! As long as the game isn't based off level grinding, I don't see why this would be a problem. If you die, you have to create a new character, but you're immediately thrown right back into the fray attempting to survive the undead horde.

Resident Evil as a mmorpg ? 

http://www.residentevil.com/index.php

Yeah I'd buy into that.

I would absolutely play this game if it was done right. I'm a HUGE zombie flick fan! I get giddy thinking about all the possibilities.

Originally posted by sfraden

Dana - you ask why not?

Answer: Because no one would play it, therefore companies wont make it.

Games depend on fantasy settings and this idea just does not provide that.

What crack are you smoking?  There are a lot of people here, myself included, who are sick to death of Fantasy themed games.  In fact, I have *never* liked fantasy, but have been forced to play it because MMO developers rarely try anything else.  If you spend enough time around here, you will notice that there are as lot of people who are sick of, or never cared for fantasy content.  There are even more people who don't care what the theme is as long as the game is good.

Examinus the game gave this a shot, unfortunately I think they ran out of funding dollars to continue on with it so the project is listed as stalled the last I saw and not (if much) development work going on unless for free behind the scenes by some hardcore coders donating their time.

I agree though on some of the points in the article, perma-death I think would need to be mandatory in the game. Also, a skill vice a level system. I also think that a pvpvz system would need to be in effect. Guilds/clans against others and against zombies so they can team up/ work together and do guided live events of hordes of undead massing and overrunning these so-called safe compounds. I think a no economy, full -player driven barter system would need to be in place as well where there's no mney exchanged but if you find some can of beans you can trade that to another guy for a stack of ammo for your 9mm or whatnot.

The only questionable item I think about is the player zombie bit, once bitten do you turn, is there a way to turn back if you don't want to be a zombie (i.e. can you head off the infection). Full sandbox with full on loot ffa for sure but how do zombies level up what skills would they get etc that's the questions part that I would have and would need to be solved.

I think that examinus gave it a good shot and had some good ideas...and the site always had a pretty decent following of players that were interested in playing it (maybe niche 20-50k subs) but it would still be sustainable and might even possibly gorw on the the communities looking for a sandbox mmorpg.

my 2 cents anyways...

I have been thinking about this for some time, and this is the way I would do a Zombie MMO.

Twitch combat with no combat skills, skills would only apply to making items (not "crafting") and sneaking seeing and maybe driving.

No NPCs.

No Currency, barter only.

No global or zone chat only local, or with in a group.

players would form gangs.

Gangs would fight in full PVP with full loot for the resources provided by certain buildings in The City.

The world would be large enough to encompass 2 or 3 huge cities with surrounding urban areas.

Vehicles would be available and modifiable.

No teleporting you would have to run or drive long distances.

Resources such as metals, fuel and food would be located in specific building of each s=city and would be needed to make items.

There would be better gear but no uber loot or "magical" items or attacks.

Sneaking would be better than running and gunning.

Zombies would be everywhere, great gobs of the stinky fucks and they would just keep coming. Nowhere would be safe and while players may baracade a building they will get in if if the baracaed is not maintained.

There would be fast  zombies, slow zombies smart zombies, dumb zombies and when they killed a player they would become a zombie for a time and then the player would have the choice to respawn or remain.

Player zombies would develope zombie abilities like speed and the ability to control other NPC zombies.

The game would be hard, bleak and bloody and unfortunately I think very few people would play it. But those that would will play it alot.

Originally posted by Zorvan

Originally posted by mrputts

They would have to be small servers wouldn't feel to alone if there were 15k players running around. Probably 400-500 max i would think, but I really like the idea. I would play a survival horror mmo.

 

 

 

 

Putts

 

I'd say 15k people left alive in a city such as Los Angeles or New York normally populated in the millions would be very realistic.

Not to realistic if you have millions upon millions of zombies, and if they respawn then you have to keep cutting the amount of people by the number of respawns. Plus you would have Living NPCs that make up the cast of people still alive. See what I'm saying?

Such a great article, this sounds like it would be a very good idea, but it seems easier said than done. It seems that this would be tricky to dish out (billions of zombies in one city area seems weird)

Also, would they consider making special zombies (Tanks and Smokers like L4D Lickers and Hunters like Resident Evil) or Boss creatures? (Tyrant) There is so much possibilities where some people just want zombies and then go kill stuff or have to defend yourself and build a colony while fighting huge monsters that come out of nowhere.

Left 4 Dead Online anyone ? How about Dead Space Online ? Those are the two best survival horror games I have ever played. I think if it done right a survival mmo would be pretty interesting  to many people, not to mention very different which the mmo genre really needs.

I think its a great idea to try, dont know how sucessful it would be until someone tried it. But i think id have to have a heavy trading based economy, cuz i doubt there will be plenty of stores open in a zombie infested city. Also with scavaging would be a huge part, kind of like in the movie "I am Legend", where youd have to venture out and rumage through abandoned buildings and home. I really hope that a complex, inventive, and creative crafting system would be implimented, where the more you level up, the more uses you can find for simple parts like air compressors and pinball machine parts, kind of like in Fallout 3, where you can make weapons out of ordinary mechanical parts.

I would play this game every day.  They would need to add in seperate skill paths for melee and firearms. I would love to be a dual-wielding hatchets in a fountain of zombie blood.  You could make it so that the virus, which spread super fast throughout the populace, wasn't transferable through the bites or that the people in game were immune like in L4D. 

I agree with this article if only because alot of what is out there is being overdone, I'm done with fantasy for quite a long while Superheroes are getting beat to death now and sci fi which is what I'm most excited for but the only offering that keep coming up aren't my cup of tea (JGE,SGW).  I'm not sure I would really care to play a survival horror game as I've never been much into the genre but I'm up for anything that can push the genre forward as opposed to this stagnant state it is in lately.

I agree you'd need permadeath for characters in any such game - you lose immersion as soon as you see your fallen comrade back up and healthy again.  Instead I'd structure it that you play an extended family caught up in the world, one member at a time - you play that character until it gets killed or goes insane, then you create a new member of the family who inherits anything in the "sanctuary".

No fixed quests, no fixed settlements.

Encampments have a safety level that rises and falls based on success in "holding back the tide", but with or without any PvP, it's a land constantly in flux where and when you log in, you may find that your sanctuary has been overrun and your fighting your way out.

Spawns are not just creatures but mini-games that spawn: invasion groups radiating out from a wandering boss, resources that can be discovered and recovered, mysterious artifacts that can be collected and researched. 

When you die, your new family member starts out with no skills and train slowly (I was always a fan of nethack).  However, the remains of your former character and their research become things that spawn in the world as the potential rewards of adventures.  The reward for these quests is to speed up the training curve to let them catch up to the previous character's level (so you're slowly advancing the "family skill set" as if the whole family was a single character, but constantly losing and recovering the family artifacts/notes representing the frontier of those skills).

Similarly, there is no safe "bank" ... if a sanctuary is overrun, your lost possessions that you had stashed there become loot to recover in future quests (it's not just sitting there to be picked up, it is saved as a potential reward for adventuring in that area).   Whether or not other players can find some or all of your old loot first is sort of a question of how PvPish you want the world to feel.

Expansions involve old lands being completely overrun with buffed encounters emerging from whatever origin for the game's threat, pushing player sanctuaries off into new maps (so in a way, the longer the game runs, the further the survivors are pushed further from the origin of the catastrophe, with the older zones becoming the higher-end content instead of the new zones - reversing the normal expansion dynamic).

Anyway, that's just my quick armchair design :)

Survival MMO? ever hear of Wurm online?  substitute zombies for wolves, bears, cave bugs....

It's awesome idea. I prefer free games, but horror MMO.. That would be worth money 

 World of Darkness might go into this genre if CCP ever announces it.  Though I'd like to see a Survival MMO.   Be worth checking out at least. :) 

i think this could work really well, but to give it that survival feel players should be given immense control over thier environment, gear, resources etc.

armor n such could be made from scraps of other items and anything could be a weapon, such control could be pair with complicated yet user frinedly systems

would love to see this idea progress

Good MMOs for bliizard.

Diablo mmo.

or Starcraft MMO, most of the games on starcraft are defend games, usualy against the zerg.

It ain't survival horror if you don't have permanent death. I don't think most mmo players are ready for that.

Originally posted by Timberwolf0

It ain't survival horror if you don't have permanent death. I don't think most mmo players are ready for that.

Agreed - but with this said, I think if you have sufficient skilled players nearby, no one should ever die. It would support grouping together.

Also, the game would have to be PvE - due to ridiculous loss from PvP in such a game.

Some of you earlier posters I think are saying things like it would be World of Zombies...craft. Obviously, it would not be - as WoW is a completely different style of game to the Zombie Horror Survival one suggested - especially with the sandbox feel and skill-based mechanics.

Even if the game was PvE (players not actually killing eachother), you could still have some effective "my guild doesn't like your guild" things going on - higher trading costs, not allowed to purchase in their cities... hostile, without the "I'ma kill you" thing - would serve the perma-death scenario well.

How many times do MMO players have to give this the thumbs up before a MMO company thinks yes we could make a shed load here?