Originally posted by Rhoklaw

While I still find mining and the depth of the game fun, I do think the XP system is rather out of date. The idea was fun at first, but with the game now being multiple years old, no one really wants to play catch up. The other thing about how realistic Eve is with player economy and interaction, it's next to impossible to trust anyone and since were paying to play this game and ships and equipment aren't cheap, your pretty much destined to be alone for fear of losing your ship and isk without even being in combat, aka scammers.

Eve is a beautiful space MMO with a crapload of things to do and see, but for all intended purposes of an MMO it fails miserably at one thing, longevity. I pretty much put Eve in my CoX category of games that are fun to play for a month and than I stop for a year and come back for another month. However, with Eve's XP system, thats pretty much a bad idea.

So ya, great review...

If you think you need to play 'catch up' in order to compete with veterans than it is a good thing you stayed away. Players that do not take the time to plan and research the game mechanics do not fare well here.

When I first started my goal was to help takedown BoB. A bunch of EVE anti-fans said I would never catch up. They promised I would get slaughtered by vets.

Here we are a bit later. BoB is permadead and broken and I have taken lives of people much older than my character.

Of course that doesnt mean anything- taking the life of a vet. This isn't World of Warcrap. There are no Levels here.

There is no Level 251 character that will one shot me

Every time I think of renewing my sub, I watch this video, get over the urge, and spend the $15 on beer and am better for it. Now, in fairness, he didn't do PVP and as far as that goes, EVE does that better than most MMO's (which isn't saying much), but his analysis that you click on a monster, take turns kicking each other in the shins until one you falls over with winner determined by who started with the biggest pair of boots is a cynical, but fairly accurate description of every MMORPG pve system and as such warranted the conclusion that "whoever said EVE was different than other MMOPRG's was talking out his intergalactic ass." The real difference is of course the skill system, and lo and behold, the one thing that makes EVE really different happens to be its lamest feature. I had some fun playing EVE, but after a few months, squeezing out that fun is like squeezing out that last bit of toothpaste from the tube. 

Originally posted by Scottgun

Every time I think of renewing my sub, I watch this video, get over the urge, and spend the $15 on beer and am better for it. Now, in fairness, he didn't do PVP and as far as that goes, EVE does that better than most MMO's (which isn't saying much), but his analysis that you click on a monster, take turns kicking each other in the shins until one you falls over with winner determined by who started with the biggest pair of boots is a cynical, but fairly accurate description of every MMORPG pve system and as such warranted the conclusion that "whoever said EVE was different than other MMOPRG's was talking out his intergalactic ass." The real difference is of course the skill system, and lo and behold, the one thing that makes EVE really different happens to be its lamest feature. I had some fun playing EVE, but after a few months, squeezing out that fun is like squeezing out that last bit of toothpaste from the tube. 

If you think EVE's skill system is the only thing that separates it from the rest than once again I am glad the lowest denominator got filtered out really early on

And EVE doesn't 'just do PVP better than other MMOs'. It is pretty much the ONLY MMO with well thought out PVP besides perhaps Darkfall and older titles like UO. Everyone else is seriously pretty clueless and only toss in pvp as an afterthought because marketing made them do it

Originally posted by teco221

WOW Jesus! Relax guys, it's a game and that video is funny.....

I don't hate EVE, just don't know they could make a game out of spreadsheet and people would pay for it. thta's it.  Not a big deal.

That's one of the great things about EVE. Just today my friend was all excited and yes- he pulled out a freaking spreadsheet that showed how much profits he expected to make from his virtual business venture

So yes, if you want to play eVE online like a Market/virtual economy then you can

If you like to just watch your character 'tick' skill points all day then you can do that

If you want to play it like a spreadsheet and compute max theorycraft DPS and so forth you can do this

If you want to run a virtual casino or lottery you can do this

If you want to join the worst SOBs you ever seen in any online game and make people life miserable you do this in eVE

EVE Online is anything you want it to be and for only a mere $15 a month its a good deal. If it were not for EVE i'd still be spending over $120 a month for just 2 console games for my xbox 360. And im not exaggerating- the avg blockbuster xbox title will only last ya 2-3 weeks. Think i beat Fable 2 within a few days after 2-3 playthroughs. Mass Effect same

$15 a month you say??? Don't be so cheap I say. That aint nothing. I'm ripping CCP off.

Originally posted by PatchDay

Originally posted by Rhoklaw

While I still find mining and the depth of the game fun, I do think the XP system is rather out of date. The idea was fun at first, but with the game now being multiple years old, no one really wants to play catch up. The other thing about how realistic Eve is with player economy and interaction, it's next to impossible to trust anyone and since were paying to play this game and ships and equipment aren't cheap, your pretty much destined to be alone for fear of losing your ship and isk without even being in combat, aka scammers.

Eve is a beautiful space MMO with a crapload of things to do and see, but for all intended purposes of an MMO it fails miserably at one thing, longevity. I pretty much put Eve in my CoX category of games that are fun to play for a month and than I stop for a year and come back for another month. However, with Eve's XP system, thats pretty much a bad idea.

So ya, great review...

 

If you think you need to play 'catch up' in order to compete with veterans than it is a good thing you stayed away. Players that do not take the time to plan and research the game mechanics do not fare well here.

When I first started my goal was to help takedown BoB. A bunch of EVE anti-fans said I would never catch up. They promised I would get slaughtered by vets.

Here we are a bit later. BoB is permadead and broken and I have taken lives of people much older than my character.

Of course that doesnt mean anything- taking the life of a vet. This isn't World of Warcrap. There are no Levels here.

There is no Level 251 character that will one shot me

 

Hay, Patchday, let me continue :D

Longevity:

I've encountered players that have been playing since release, and obviously a high number of players that have been there 1,2...4 years and so on. That is lognevity if nothing else.

Destined to be alone:

Most fun things in this games (imho) is done in small gangs, smaller corporations, and similar. If one are to be playing this game and want to have part in alot of the other aspects of PvP, mining etc. One really are destined to not be alone.

Impossible to trust anyone, and such:

Yes, this is a game where your actions means more for you and others. Where the community makes their rule and enforce it. Shure you get scammed... :S

Catch up:

It is probebly one of the easiest games to catch up in... You'd only need to train the right skillset for what you want to do (or start out to do), and then later join up with people that are looking for that. And as one have done that... It's really simple there is no need to dvelve in a dungeon to get good enough gear to be able to contribute. Heck you could focus on something more fun in real life, for a few weeks, without losing this and that important game items. :rolleyes: As in "those other games" you'd need to press a few buttons in a similar patteren every second or third minute for a few hours to be able to have a slight chance to obtain that thing.

This game is rather easier to catch up in in terms of possibilities, ie character progression, made availble in the game.

Originally posted by JGMIII

But the sad people that use this as troll bait bug me.

What's sad is that you seem to fall for it every time.

It just makes you look like the Idiot King of the Eve Fanboy Nation.

Originally posted by teco221

IMO, this is the best review for EVE online.

 

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/208-Eve-Online

Oh, one of my best friends didn't make it past the tutorial. He considers tutorials to be lame, nothing for him to do.
And yeah, I'm going to throw him this link.

I kind of look forward to do that.

Has your friend got ADH... oooh shiny thing.

I play eve (part time, because if you played full time you'd fucking kill yourself) so I'm no, "fanboy."

Anyway, continuing on. Its a huge learning curve, the game does have a lot to offer IF YOUR INTO SPACE/COMMUNITY MMOS!!

I for one enjoy exploring wormholes w/ the corp, setting up POS, training for better ships BLAH BLAH BLAH.

The video was funny but not a "in depth" look at the game. IMO you can't write a review(video a review) on a game only after playing the 14 day trial.

When a "review" like that is linked, or just in general, it wouldn't hurt to have some good gameplay video links of your own to show how good Eve is.  I recently was looking on youtube and similar for "fun gameplay" videos of Eve and didn't really come up with any that a newbie would have any idea what's going on in.  A problem likely solved if the creators did a voice-over explaining what's going on instead of just adding a music track to the video.

There's some videos that are "Watch this great Eve gameplay!" or "Watch this cool thing in Eve!" but people who have never played the game, and perhaps even those that have, have a good chance of getting lost.  You see a ship, maybe some other ships, maybe some zooming in and out on the screen, a mouse cursor pushing a button here or there, and that's often about it.  

I mean, some are obvious, someone blowing up another ship, etc, but there's apparently a lot more to Eve than that, but it doesn't come across in the videos I've seen. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oq2oxt7Nrxo

Did you see this one?

Personally I've always loved this review.  It provides a great caricature of the gamer that doesn't "get" eve and is vaguely angry about it.

P.T Barnum once said "say anything you want about me, just make sure you spell my name right."

I am reminded of what Lao Tzu said about Eve in the 6th century B.C:

The wise gamer hears of Eve and plays it diligently. The average gamer hears of Eve and gives it thought now and again. The foolish gamer hears of Eve and laughs aloud. If there were no laughter, Eve would not be what it is. Tao Te Eve - Lao Tzu - chapter 41

That's a cool vid, Xennith, and it does give an overview, along with cool graphics, of what to expect.  Though, I was talking more real-time gameplay videos, such as when the guy in the vid helps the miner, the vid showing it in real-time and hopefully also commenting on what he's doing.  Otherwise, it's sort of like a fantasy game saying, "Visit strange dungeons!  Fight the evil dragon!"  but never seeing any footage of the actual fight.  

Those kinds of gameplay vids don't make for cool trailers, but it helps people know what to expect.  Otherwise, you may get gameplay videos like this one, "Eve from a Newbie's View":

 www.youtube.com/watch

Originally posted by TheFranchise

 

 www.youtube.com/watch

is funny how ppl fail to see one thing  the video is not made by a really n00b player/trial player 

Originally posted by cosy

Originally posted by TheFranchise

 

 www.youtube.com/watch

is funny how ppl fail to see one thing  the video is not made by a really n00b player/trial player 

And, yet, I'd say whether the creator is a n00b or not doesn't matter at all.  Of course the vid is meant to be funny, but there is a lot of truth to it.

the bit where he kills the pirates attacking the miner is actually in game footage.

im not really sure what you want to be honest, video of a fight being commentated by someone? why not watch the alliance tournament videos like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kn0wkkeLBs

Originally posted by TheFranchise

Originally posted by cosy

Originally posted by TheFranchise

 

 www.youtube.com/watch

is funny how ppl fail to see one thing  the video is not made by a really n00b player/trial player 

 

And, yet, I'd say whether the creator is a n00b or not doesn't matter at all.  Of course the vid is meant to be funny, but there is a lot of truth to it.

truth ? that is AFK mining ppl do that when are at work or see TV u know there are no npc on 09/10

Originally posted by cosy

truth ? that is AFK mining ppl do that when are at work or see TV u know there are no npc on 09/10

Truth in that that's what a lot of people new to the game see from many of the gameplay videos out there or what they think the gameplay is like when people talk about it.  "I went to sleep, and when I woke up, my skills were raised!"  Um... yay?  Or the whole "AFK mining" thing is another one.  There's even a 1500(?) player fight on one video, but, at least from the angle of the person recording, it usually just looks like a bunch of little dots on a screen.  

Is this making sense?  To someone new to Eve who may become a trialer and/or subscriber, it's like, "What is it you actually DO in Eve?" because this "AFK mining" kind of stuff is kind of up there with that one game that you don't actually play but every once in awhile you auto-level up and hear the ding and now know your character is improved.

In other words, other than the shoot-em-up ones, most of the gameplay videos I've seen of Eve don't do it any favors in attracting new players.   Just my opinion.  ...ya know?... where's a vid of some exciting skill leveling or non-AFK mining or visiting strange, new worlds or whatever that is fun in Eve?  How is Eve fun?  Why is it fun?  Show me a real-time video of something fun that's not a fight scene.  Ya know?   Because from an outside perspective, half of the game seems like if someone played WoW just to make gold on the Auction House and was doing that as the main game.  Is that a big, main, fun part of Eve?  Maybe it is.

I see a lot of new players doing the trial and say things like they flew around a bit, levelled up some skills a bit, did some AFK mining for a bit, and that's about it.  And then they are disappointed and don't subscribe.  Is that the game?  Is PVP and "realm vs. realm" the main parts of the game and the social aspects just don't translate well to 10-minute gameplay videos?  Maybe that's it.

It should be obvious I'm not trying to bash the game here.  Maybe that is indeed it, that the major parts of the game, the social aspects, just don't come across well in videos and maybe don't really get all that exciting until you get some flight time under your belt and get to know other people and factions in the game.     

Xennith, that vid is more what I'm talking about.  A new person watching it is wondering what is going on, what FUN thing is going on, and the commentators are saying what's going on.  I haven't had time to watch more of them, so I don't know if they're all about fighting or what.  

those videos are from the last alliance tournament, basically lots of the big names and some of the small ones have a series of knockout battles, ships are worth different point values and you can have max 10 pilots and 100 points. we're in the run up to the next alliance tourney now, should be exciting stuff.

incidently eve population and PCU generally maxes out near the end of the tourney as loads of newbies hear about it.

I won't deny that there are things about Yahtzee that bother me; his gratuitous profanity, for instance, and also certain elements of his public persona (as I can't speak about the private one, since I've never met him) such as his misanthropy and his affectation of wearing a fedora.  And, specifically for this discussion, that he harbors no love for MMO's in general.  If you want an example, look up his review of the RPG "The Witcher", which he found boring and finally realized that that single-player game was like an MMO.  For EVE, the main flaw of his review is that he decided beforehand to have nothing to do with player-run corporations, which is like saying that you want nothing to do with shooting when playing Half Life. And the much-vaunted fact that he has designed games can cut both ways; since his games were well received, it proves he knows what he's talking about, but if he starts tailoring his ideas of what make a good game strictly to what he has done in his own titles, he would be overly restrictive.

However, I don't think we can say that Yahtzee is a hack without substance who plays it exclusively for laughs when it comes to his reviews. Look up his review of The Sims 3; he's pretty much summarized all I've hated about that franchise since the first installment -- the joke is on you, the player. Yet he's the only one who felt moral repulsion about this particular franchise, or at least expressed it publicly.  He's also one of the few out there who, while he's rather too eager of going out of his way to avoid saying anything positive about any title he's reviewing, isn't afraid to say that any particular title is, well, crap.  (It's likely that a game he likes won't ever be reviewed by him.)  And about EVE, he's right, despite his desire to stay away from corporations: It's boring, it's more of the same, the skill system that allows you to progress while you're logged off is inexplicable (and although it probably was great at launch, it now means that older players have an advantage).  Where I diverge from him is on the question of whether the game is a spreadsheet; it's too simplistic to be one, and the interface doesn't help.

Yet the reactions in this thread alone indicate that he struck a nerve. I mean, look at yourselves, and all that talk of "EVE does not like you", "weeding out the weak", "EVE trial rejects" (what is this, the Marines?), "I am glad the lowest common denominator got filtered out really early on", etc., and then you talk about how this is just a large flaming conspiracy to prevent new vict... I mean players from starting in EVE.  To me, some of the EVE supporters are doing a greater bang-up job at this than the Yahtzees of the world ever would.

You honestly expect a fanbase to react kindly to some of the trolls here? Read some of what they've posted. Im glad to be away from them.

Originally posted by Vetarnias

He's also one of the few out there who, while he's rather too eager of going out of his way to avoid saying anything positive about any title he's reviewing, isn't afraid to say that any particular title is, well, crap.  (It's likely that a game he likes won't ever be reviewed by him.)  

It's amusing when he does actually say he likes a game.  I'm not sure if the first one I'm thinking of is Fallout 3 or not, but the video starts, the intro music plays, and then quickly stops, and he says, "Yeah, it's pretty good," and then the music starts up again.

Painkiller is one of the few games that pretty much got a glowing review.  I think the verdict was "It's F-ing Awesome."

Everyone should know a lot of his reviews are like a pro wrestler playing a heel.  In various videos he's even said how no one wants to hear him talk nice about a game, so he has to find something about it to berate.  So, some parts may be dead-on, while other parts are just a work.  And the parts he doesn't like, his opinions on the matter are probably "turned up to 11" to sound more over-the-top.   

As someone who enjoyed Painkiller for what it was, and thinks The Witcher is probably the best game I played in the last year, and nowadays pretty much only likes playing MMOs, Yahtzee is often entertaining, but opinions are just that, and he's mainly just putting on a show.

Funny review, but the dude is an IDIOT! 14 day trial is just that, trial doesnt do much when you're playing a game that doesn't require grinding like WoW. In WoW, you gain like 20-30 lvl by just doing the trial, thats instant gratification. Woohooo, you accomplished so much, good for you! IMO EvE's trial doesn't do justicce for the game, it just let you check the scenery, do some noob stuff and have your ship get blown. It's stupid but that just it. If you really want to have fun, then join a corp, manipulate the market or join the blob, but that will take more than 14 days. To the stupid reviewer, go back to WoW!

can"t believe people are taking his review seriously, the guy his videos are pure for fun, Check out all his other video reviews and you'll notice that he makes fun of every game he encounters.

I especially advice the Army of Two, Sims 3 and Assassin's Creed review :p