Originally posted by Rabenwolf

Originally posted by zethcarn

Cryptic didn't develop Hellgate London and Bill Roper wasn't solely responsible for it's failure.  These are all moot points.  Plus we still don't even know whats available through RMT...most likely just fluff (aka useless) items.

 

Gonna have to disagree with you there champ. Roper played a big role in Hellgate londons outcome.

Like what specifically?

The whole Bill Roper thing will also not play a part in my decision. I do not think hellgate london failed because he was working with them, Hellgate failed because it did not have anything going for it to compete with the rest of the MMO population/ needs of players.

Comparing Champions Online to Hellgate London...just doesn't happen.

Originally posted by Rabenwolf

Originally posted by zethcarn

Cryptic didn't develop Hellgate London and Bill Roper wasn't solely responsible for it's failure.  These are all moot points.  Plus we still don't even know whats available through RMT...most likely just fluff (aka useless) items.

 

Gonna have to disagree with you there champ. Roper played a big role in Hellgate londons outcome. Further, regardless of company, he is still part of the project. My points are not illogical. There have been some changes at Cryptic, different teams are involved. There is nothing to inspire any bit of confidence. Based on this info, the competition and certain key developers... its best to assume the product has the possibility of flopping.

yah with Rabenwolf as a critic then we wouldnt have any games out there.

Raben ill give you 5 reasons why it isn't Bill's fault that Hellsgates failed

1. Bill worked for a business and the business says if they want to put money in a game or not.

2. Bill had a lot to do with the way the game ran, but the business has the marketing department that didnt do their jobs right. (i for one didnt even hear of this crappy game until it was gone)

3. you never heard of shareholders?

4. It was never 1 mans fault for a game to fail, it is the companies fault and the teams fault

5. A person that designed or worked on a project has no ability to close a game down, the company would just replace him if he cant do what they want done.

So your  points are illogical.

please get out of moms basement and do something with your life instead of trolling forums.

It's so not logical to say you won't do something because of one man, in this case Bill. Take a look a NCSoft, they shut dowm more MMO in the past years than anyone else and still people are going crazy for Aion. They are not thinking, oh wait, don't buy the game because they might shut down the game.

The lifetime subscription is a gamble, but such things always are. Basically, it comes down to a few things:

• $200 / $15/month = 13.33 months - if you play, over the course of the lifetime of the game, this much or more, you made a wise purchase
• If you really love the lifetime subscription items ($200 worth of love), you made a wise purchase
• If you like not feeling pressured to play due to the freedom of "unlimited play forever", and the ability to pick up the game at any time, you made a wise purchase
• If you like the guaranteed Star Trek Online beta access, you made a wise purchase )can be gained with six-month subscription, too)

Where it can screw you is if you hate the game and play less than 13 months in total, or the game simply folds within 13 months. I seriously doubt the game will fail that hard, so that is not a major concern.

Anyway, $200, for most people, is a fair chunk of cash to plunk down for an unproven video game. Some people say it is stupid to pay this much up front, and I understand the arguments, but ultimately it is a personal decision and for many it will work out - for others it will not.

I did not purchase a Lord of the Rings Online lifetime subscription, and for me that was wise, as I only played a couple months, but some people have saved hundreds as it has been out for 28 months now, and shows no signs of dying any time soon.

You could theoretically save $1000 if the game lasts 80 months, which is not unheard of. EverQuest has lasted over 120 months, and World of Warcraft has been going for nearly 60.

Originally posted by drgran

Originally posted by Rabenwolf

Originally posted by zethcarn

Cryptic didn't develop Hellgate London and Bill Roper wasn't solely responsible for it's failure.  These are all moot points.  Plus we still don't even know whats available through RMT...most likely just fluff (aka useless) items.

 

Gonna have to disagree with you there champ. Roper played a big role in Hellgate londons outcome. Further, regardless of company, he is still part of the project. My points are not illogical. There have been some changes at Cryptic, different teams are involved. There is nothing to inspire any bit of confidence. Based on this info, the competition and certain key developers... its best to assume the product has the possibility of flopping.

yah with Rabenwolf as a critic then we wouldnt have any games out there.

Raben ill give you 5 reasons why it isn't Bill's fault that Hellsgates failed

1. Bill worked for a business and the business says if they want to put money in a game or not.

2. Bill had a lot to do with the way the game ran, but the business has the marketing department that didnt do their jobs right. (i for one didnt even hear of this crappy game until it was gone)

3. you never heard of shareholders?

4. It was never 1 mans fault for a game to fail, it is the companies fault and the teams fault

5. A person that designed or worked on a project has no ability to close a game down, the company would just replace him if he cant do what they want done.

So your  points are illogical.

please get out of moms basement and do something with your life instead of trolling forums.

I like how you attempt to insult there champ. Please point me to where i said the fault lay on Ropers shoulders alone? You see, all you did here was spin and manipulate. Thats a no no. I never made such claims as you have put it.

Hellgate failed because the game design, game quality, and business model were absolute CRAP. I am sorry you are uninformed on the matter, but he did play a huge role in all of those failures.

Is one person reason enough not to play the game? Well I dont think so and quite frankly i dont recall ever making that claim. Again you are slandering for god knows why. Immaturity perhaps.

Merely I suggest that Champions online doesnt really give off the image of a successful product due to yes, certain employees, history (previously was marvel online until they canned it), and console market in which they are competing with DC Universe. It would be illogical to not hold the wait and see approach. Its called caution. I see some of the fanboys hate this for some reason.

And finally...seriously, drop the whole over used, horribly inaccurate and  immature "get out of your moms basement heeheehee" line. I am in the business of making films and soon to be games, i would hate for anyone in that line of work to still be living in anyones basement much less their mothers. Nice try though bub.

In all honesty when deciding on a lifetime sub you have to look at the market and the games recently.  These games are shallow themeparks and hardly offer 6 months worth of content let alone a lifetime.  Their lifespan is usually quite short.  A lifetime sub is 200$ which equates to something like 16.5 months of a regular sub.  I know for a fact I wouldn't ever play this game more than 3-5 months max so a lifetime sub isn't worth it.  The same for LotRO and every game that has come out in the last 5 years.

FFXI or EVE are the only 2 games I would have payed a lifetime sub for and gotten my money's worth.  I hope they offer it for FFXIV, but for CO?  Gotta be kidding me I wouldn't even consider it.

Originally posted by drgran

Originally posted by Rabenwolf

 

yah with Rabenwolf as a critic then we wouldnt have any games out there.

Raben ill give you 5 reasons why it isn't Bill's fault that Hellsgates failed

1. Bill worked for a business and the business says if they want to put money in a game or not.

2. Bill had a lot to do with the way the game ran, but the business has the marketing department that didnt do their jobs right. (i for one didnt even hear of this crappy game until it was gone)

3. you never heard of shareholders?

4. It was never 1 mans fault for a game to fail, it is the companies fault and the teams fault

5. A person that designed or worked on a project has no ability to close a game down, the company would just replace him if he cant do what they want done.

So your  points are illogical.

 

QFT.  And really Roper is not all fail like people make him out to be.  A little bit of his background:

"Bill Roper worked directly on numerous million-selling games in varied producer positions and played a key role in the success of the Warcraft, StarCraft and Diablo franchises. He also acted in and assisted with the direction of the voice recording for Blizzard’s titles, as well as personally representing the games to the global gaming community."

ok all u rmt idots this is what rmt in champions online is.

IT IS FOR COSTUME PARTS.

thats all its fore its to add some exclusive content for those willing to add a little extra money to company is all there nothign worng with having rmt for fluff items thats perfectly fine with me.if u want bad use of rmt go look at mobagoni. its a all around decent game but even thou its f2p its next to impossible to play good without paying forit.

so before u go crying about rmt in some instances rmt is good as in case of champions online.its realy no diffent than wow where u have to pay 20 dollars us for just a simple charcter transfer and such only difference is that u in champions get unique stuff that no one has but doesnt break the game and is in no way a mandatory thing u have to do. look at city of heroes also they have some rmt for costume packs/ with some ablites and they are popular but not needed at all to even play

200 =/= 13 months due to longer sub rates being cheaper. But really it's only a few months difference.

I wouldn't think any of these "hero" games have that much content/things to do. Just do the 6 month thing. =)

I wouldn't get a lifetime sub for the reason the OP has already stated. CO is not CoX but it definitely comes from the some mold - personally I wouldn't expect to stick with the game for longer than a couple of months. 

Only lifetime sub a game you have played a minimum of 3 months on release.  This is a gimick to refund some dev costs and actually worries me.  However if you have extensively playedall  the beta's and you know that you wont touch anything else for at least 3 years then by all means buy it.

I'm personally on the fence on whether the lifetime is worth it for champions.  I was for lord of the rings too.  After I beta tested Lord of the Rings for a couple of weeks I decided that it was just wasn't appealing enough to warrent a life time much less a sub.  It was a good game and all it just wasn't for me.   Open Beta is going to be the huge deciding factor for alot of people on the lifetime sub.  The only people I hear going out and getting it now are those that are rabid fanboys from the closed beta. 

Play the Open beta if you really really like it get the life time if thats what you want to do.  If you sort of like it enough to play for a while get the 6 months.  If your only ok with the game...just go with the standard monthly. 

My opinion...

I don't think the game is perfect - it has problems - but I've still found it fun to play. If not for a few particular things I'd consider the lifetime subscription. But....

A lifetime subscription in an mmo that has microtransactions seems... well like a huge gamble. They won't even tell us what the MTs are now, let alone what they'll be six months from now. You could be paying $50 for the box and $200 for the lifetime sub for a game that will become a free-to-play fully and supported by MTs.

And this isn't the first mmo that Bill Roper has been attached to that has appeared overpriced (what you got the $15 a month they were asking for Hellgate London was a hell of a lot less than real mmos offered for the same amount) and came with a limited lifetime sub offer. And look what happened to that.

I'm personally putting this game on a waiting list. Wait 6-12 months and see what it is then.

And if a game really turns out to be worth a lifetime subscription, then I also wouldn't mind paying $15 a month for as long as I enjoy it.

Pass.

Look at the game from this stand point. If it didn't have an RMT store, would you get a lifetime subscription?

If the answer is YES then, Get the lifetime subscription. WHY? because they  are being upfront about there being an RMT option. They could have released the game and then added an RMT option in later.  You may see more existing games doing this , in ordet o stay competitive.

If the answer is NO, then the RMT aspects don't matter.

Originally posted by AJ2ME

Look at the game from this stand point. If it didn't have an RMT store, would you get a lifetime subscription?

If the answer is YES then, Get the lifetime subscription. WHY? because they  are being upfront about there being an RMT option. They could have released the game and then added an RMT option in later.  You may see more existing games doing this , in ordet o stay competitive.

If the answer is NO, then the RMT aspects don't matter.

You're kidding right?

RMT is going to be a major factor in many people's decision to even buy the game or not and an even bigger one when considering the lifetime subscription offer.

Anyone who is complaining about the RMTs really just needs to stop. If the fact that players have the OPTION to purchase more costume pieces or vanity pets with real money bothers you that much...then just don't play the game.

If you don't want to play the game, don't come to the message boards and continue to make negative post after negative post about the game. Some of us folks here do like it. I can't stand WoW anymore, but I have yet to go trolling into their boards to bitch and moan about things that I won't be spending my time with.

Originally posted by GrubbsGrady

Anyone who is complaining about the RMTs really just needs to stop. If the fact that players have the OPTION to purchase more costume pieces or vanity pets with real money bothers you that much...then just don't play the game.

If you don't want to play the game, don't come to the message boards and continue to make negative post after negative post about the game. Some of us folks here do like it. I can't stand WoW anymore, but I have yet to go trolling into their boards to bitch and moan about things that I won't be spending my time with.

Awwww, poor Grubbs.

I'll tell you what I've told others - you can take your invitation to leave the forums and microtransact it :)

Poor Grubbs? I think you are the poor one my friend. Having nothing to do with your time besides trolling forums all day and complaining about your financial problems isn't too great of a life. Why don't you work on getting one of those before giving people advice on their investments?

Micro transactions and RMT is lame.  It is a model used by games which are subpar and can't compete with regular subscription based P2P games that rule the market.  They focus on addicting the users making them believe the cash shop isn't necessary.  I don't care if it's fluff items.  This says to me in bold faced smack you in the forehead with a 40 lb dead carp THIS GAME IS SUBPAR.  So I say to myself, "Maybe this is the one game where it doesn't apply, so i'll try beta."

It's a subpar game that doesn't deliver.  Lifetime subs + rmt micro transactions help them make up for the lack of subs they can retain.  What do they care they can move on to the STO IP and get trekkies addicted before offering them new spaceships and clingons to recruit through their cash shop.

I say a big FU Cryptic.  Just me though.  I could care less what anyone else does.  I made an initial judgment, and then stepped back, and then made a valid judgment based on a wealth of information and now I have come to the conclusion that Cryptic and the Roper are greedy sobs and they can suck it.