Even I do not track in close progress and forums of SW:TOR I cannot say there is hate, but just negative opinions on the game. Every person have different taste and preferences, so negative opinion of something do not mean its a hate - its just a opinion!

Originally posted by admriker4

Originally posted by toddze

 

You shouldnt ask that question otherwise your going to get a wow clone. You should be asking: "Why are you  here if what bioware is offering doesnt suit your gaming style?"

What I dont understand is why people cant be content with the way the devs are making the game. If what you see is not what you like in a game you should stop even looking at the game, and move on.

For me personally I am a hardcore grouper fan and it seems TOR will not please my gaming style thus I very rarely come here, and I have no plans to play this game even though I am a big SW fan. There is no need for me to sit in here trolling a game that I will not enjoy. If more people would do this then game boards could have real discussions instead of all the Hardcore vs casual or Solo vs Group bichering that goes on.

I do feel where your coming from because I am highly anticipating FFXIV and SE is known for hardcore PvE with forced grouping yet the casuals and solo'ers are there trying to change what SE does best. I am willing to bet that groupers are in here complaining which they shouldnt be. If they dont like it dont come here.

It seems most people cant be content when other people are getting a game they want which is really sad. I hope SW:ToR turns out to be a great game for you guys.

 

If this was any other ip I would agree with you.

For example, Lord of the Rings online isnt the sandbox game I wanted it to be. In fact the original design under Sierra was called Middle Earth online and had sandbox features. I dont complain about it though and wish the game and its community all the best.

Warhammer is a pvp focused game. I dont care much for pvp so I havent bothered to try the game. I dont go to their forums and complain that the game isnt what I want though. It is what it is.

However there are 250,000+ ex star wars galaxies players out there to deal with (Im one of them). We feel like LucasArts owes us a replacement mmo for the one they took from us. We feel that LA took our subscription money (stole it really) without our knowledge or approval and made an entirely new game. The NGE was in secret development for at least 6 months using our subscrription money. While we waited patiently for the force ranking system to be brought back along with other broken content LA / SOE used that money for something else. Thats clearly  misappropriated use of our money.

What makes this situation even more violatile is that there arent any options for ex galaxies players. There isnt a decent option to move too. Look at the forums for any new game coming and you will see thousands of posts from ex galaxies players hoping for features from our beloved game.

And the mmo genre seems to be getting even more console-like and simplistic. Features once considered required for an mmo like housing arent even mentioned anymore. And thanks to wow's success we have a whole new group of gamers that dont even ask for it.

it feels like we are being pushed aside and ignored for a different audience. And yes we resent it because we are the ones that started this genre

So TOR gets the attention of ex galaxies players and yes theyre going to be upset when they see a linear theme park design similiar to the nge version that stole a wonderful game from us.

If it was any other game I wouldnt even bother posting. But because its LucasArts, its a star wars game, and its another anti-sandbox game we feel resentful.

Im sure the game will be fine as another quasi modified version of an MMO but its not a real MMO in the traditional sense. And thats very disappointing

I understand where your coming. I too am feed up with theses wow'esqe games. And MMO's are de-evolving into online console games, where as console games are evolving into the early stages of MMO's (see demons soul). Once they even out then the MMO genre can go back to what it was while the console version of MMO's can please the wow crowd. Until that time were both, with the rest of us who hate wowesqe games, SOL.

I am still fighting tooth and nail in FFXIV board for my hardcore PvE game with forced grouping, but when/IF SE states aspects that are wow'esq, I have no choice but to throw in the towel.

Simple, because no other MMO has come along to replace the immortal Star Wars Galaxies.

Those of us who LIKED the sandbox model in SWG were betrayed by the drive for WoW-kiddies by the CU and NGE. It ruined a game we loved.

Nothing has come along to replace it. Just an endless stream of easier and easier MMO's forever becoming more and more about solo play and power-grinding to the end game were you grind endlessly for gear to get more gear.

SWG was different. Bugged, but different.

SWTOR is not going to be SWG2, not even trying, and that upsets those of us who had hopes for a SWG2 however unrealistic that idea is.

SWTOR should be judged as its own game, but us oldies have a huge grudge and we can't help but vent it now and then.

It will be intresting to see if SWTOR can make it as its own game.  

Originally posted by sfc1971

Simple, because no other MMO has come along to replace the immortal Star Wars Galaxies.

Those of us who LIKED the sandbox model in SWG were betrayed by the drive for WoW-kiddies by the CU and NGE. It ruined a game we loved.

Nothing has come along to replace it. Just an endless stream of easier and easier MMO's forever becoming more and more about solo play and power-grinding to the end game were you grind endlessly for gear to get more gear.

SWG was different. Bugged, but different.

SWTOR is not going to be SWG2, not even trying, and that upsets those of us who had hopes for a SWG2 however unrealistic that idea is.

SWTOR should be judged as its own game, but us oldies have a huge grudge and we can't help but vent it now and then.

It will be intresting to see if SWTOR can make it as its own game.  

Yeah it shows how stupid SOE is, how hard is it to wipe 3 or 4 of there barren servers?  Set it up with pre9 code and bam problem fixed.

So they get 50k subscribers for a year and make 9 mil for doing nothing, excecpt to maintain those servers.

Personally I honestly think they want to do it, there past shows they will setup classic servers, but I think GL will not let them.

Originally posted by Mazin

Originally posted by sfc1971

Simple, because no other MMO has come along to replace the immortal Star Wars Galaxies.

Those of us who LIKED the sandbox model in SWG were betrayed by the drive for WoW-kiddies by the CU and NGE. It ruined a game we loved.

Nothing has come along to replace it. Just an endless stream of easier and easier MMO's forever becoming more and more about solo play and power-grinding to the end game were you grind endlessly for gear to get more gear.

SWG was different. Bugged, but different.

SWTOR is not going to be SWG2, not even trying, and that upsets those of us who had hopes for a SWG2 however unrealistic that idea is.

SWTOR should be judged as its own game, but us oldies have a huge grudge and we can't help but vent it now and then.

It will be intresting to see if SWTOR can make it as its own game.  

 

Yeah it shows how stupid SOE is, how hard is it to wipe 3 or 4 of there barren servers?  Set it up with pre9 code and bam problem fixed.

So they get 50k subscribers for a year and make 9 mil for doing nothing, excecpt to maintain those servers.

That would have worked or  they could have just released the NGE as a whole new game like they did with EQ2. That way the people who liked the game the way it was could keep playing.
 

I hate them because I was secretly hoping for a Mass Effect MMO ala EvE style. Too bad, the chances to that happening is slim now with TOR anouncement :P

Originally posted by nanoviper

It seems that over the last few months online there has been tons of rage over TOR, and the way the game is being designed; I.E. Story based not sandbox. My question to the community is why? Why are you dissapointed in the way the game is turning out.

If you're a Star Wars Fan (the target audience) you'll be getting your favorite IP turned into an MMO; And not just any MMO one designed around story and intrigue with an engine that looks amazing and with characters that are fully voiced. 

If your a fan or RPGs, your getting a game designed by the single greatest company in the buisness (bioware) and are going to get the expirence of a life time. 

The only crowd that leaves are the WoW-esque MMO fans, who tend to like grind based gear gathering and repetitive instances (a niche already filled by WOW). And the SWG Vets (who are not, star wars fans in the strictest sense) who prefer well, SWG a games that already exists.

So the question I post to all of the future SW:TOR community is "what could they do differently to please you?" 

Because people always need something to bitch about.

The game is going to be the best MMO is years.

Originally posted by Wharg0ul

Originally posted by nanoviper

So the question I post to all of the future SW:TOR community is "what could they do differently to please you?" 

 

they could take the game off rails, and let let us be who we WANT to be.

I don't want to be FORCED to be a "hero"....I don't want to be forced into a pre-designed "iconic" role....I want a virtual Star Wars universe where I carve my OWN path, and make my own way.

I want more to do than just "exciting Star-Warsy" combat.

A game with depth, and freedom, in other words.

This is simply another step toward over-simplifying and consolising MMORPGs. Have you seen the Smuggler's cover system, for example?? It TELLS you with little icons where to take cover....you're on rails the whole time, with pre-designated courses of action. Any choice is purely an illusion, and any there can be no freedom in this type of game. I am pretty much predicting that any space combat, if it's even included, will be more like Star Fox, or some other rail shooter.

Why the hate?? Because for years we speculated on how AWESOME it would be to have a Star Wars MMORPG set in the Old Republic era....only we were envisioning a REAL MMORPG, not a glorified console game. We're pissed because there will NEVER be a true Star Wars MMORPG as a result of TOR. The potential is wasted.

you know whargoul i think i remember criticizing you pretty harshly in the past for a really lame post but damn i have to give you credit for this one. nicely said. i hope and pray it wont come to fruition but when we start hoping its almost alwayd too late.
 

I have to post on this again for all the retards.

The game is in ALPHA stage.


AAAAAALLLLPPPHHHHAAAAA




STFU

It's probably going to be 100x better then the shitty mmo whose ass you're stuck in anyway.

I just want to chew bubble gum, and kick ass. As long as TOR can keep the bubble gum supplied I can do the rest.

I dunno why so much hate is going out towards TOR. Sounds like the elitist raiders are mad they can't ruin this game, too.

Originally posted by er99

Originally posted by Wharg0ul

Originally posted by nanoviper

So the question I post to all of the future SW:TOR community is "what could they do differently to please you?" 

 

they could take the game off rails, and let let us be who we WANT to be.

I don't want to be FORCED to be a "hero"....I don't want to be forced into a pre-designed "iconic" role....I want a virtual Star Wars universe where I carve my OWN path, and make my own way.

I want more to do than just "exciting Star-Warsy" combat.

A game with depth, and freedom, in other words.

This is simply another step toward over-simplifying and consolising MMORPGs. Have you seen the Smuggler's cover system, for example?? It TELLS you with little icons where to take cover....you're on rails the whole time, with pre-designated courses of action. Any choice is purely an illusion, and any there can be no freedom in this type of game. I am pretty much predicting that any space combat, if it's even included, will be more like Star Fox, or some other rail shooter.

Why the hate?? Because for years we speculated on how AWESOME it would be to have a Star Wars MMORPG set in the Old Republic era....only we were envisioning a REAL MMORPG, not a glorified console game. We're pissed because there will NEVER be a true Star Wars MMORPG as a result of TOR. The potential is wasted.

you know whargoul i think i remember criticizing you pretty harshly in the past for a really lame post but damn i have to give you credit for this one. nicely said. i hope and pray it wont come to fruition but when we start hoping its almost alwayd too late.
 

any lame posts I may or may not have made were likely the result of posting before my morning coffee.

...I really need to stop doing that.

Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero

 People who want Bioware to make a sandbox game of any type are complete toolboxes. Maybe they should go ask Infitiy Ward to go make a simulation racer ala Gran Turismo or ID Software to make a fighter game as good as Soul Caliber.

 

Bioware makes traditional linear RPGs. That's ALL they' EVER made. Why would you imbeciles expect them to make something different. EVEN BETTER, why would you want them to make a sandbox? They've never done it before maybe they're absolutely TERRIBLE at it (god knows the racing and shooting minigames in KOTOR were pretty bad).

Instead of wasting your worthless breath on Bioware, the sandbox community would be better served by hoping Besethda makes a game that caters to their needs. You know...those little ol' folks that ALWAYS make the sandbox RPGs.

 

And just for the record, I think Infinity Ward would make a great Gran Turismo. Wait no...no I don't.

THEN charge a single price of $59.95 like all the other linear RPG's..  To add some lame ass online teaming up option to justify calling it a MMO so that you can charge the monthly fee like others is just BULLSH*T... For that I will hate Bioware all I want :)  To me it's just used car sales tactics to turn a buck... SHAME BIOWARE.. SHAME

Hate is the first sign of success, i mean look how many WoW haters are out there. If people stop talking about TOR altogether, then you should be concerned.

Originally posted by Rydeson

Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero

 People who want Bioware to make a sandbox game of any type are complete toolboxes. Maybe they should go ask Infitiy Ward to go make a simulation racer ala Gran Turismo or ID Software to make a fighter game as good as Soul Caliber.

 

Bioware makes traditional linear RPGs. That's ALL they' EVER made. Why would you imbeciles expect them to make something different. EVEN BETTER, why would you want them to make a sandbox? They've never done it before maybe they're absolutely TERRIBLE at it (god knows the racing and shooting minigames in KOTOR were pretty bad).

Instead of wasting your worthless breath on Bioware, the sandbox community would be better served by hoping Besethda makes a game that caters to their needs. You know...those little ol' folks that ALWAYS make the sandbox RPGs.

 

And just for the record, I think Infinity Ward would make a great Gran Turismo. Wait no...no I don't.

 

THEN charge a single price of $59.95 like all the other linear RPG's..  To add some lame ass online teaming up option to justify calling it a MMO so that you can charge the monthly fee like others is just BULLSH*T... For that I will hate Bioware all I want :)  To me it's just used car sales tactics to turn a buck... SHAME BIOWARE.. SHAME

If the game does indeed have the content of 8+ KOTORs would you be cool with paying $480 bucks for it? 

What's that? No you wouldn't? Why not. It has 8 times the content of a regular KOTOR. That'd be fair right?

What's that now? "Fair" is hater speak for I'm a hypocrite give me all your stuff for free?

GASP! SHOCK! FOR SHAME I SAY!

It's your right to be an irrational hater. It's also my right to be an irrational hater hater.

BTW welcome to Capitalisim. That's how we roll son.

Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero

Originally posted by Rydeson

 

THEN charge a single price of $59.95 like all the other linear RPG's..  To add some lame ass online teaming up option to justify calling it a MMO so that you can charge the monthly fee like others is just BULLSH*T... For that I will hate Bioware all I want :)  To me it's just used car sales tactics to turn a buck... SHAME BIOWARE.. SHAME

 

If the game does indeed have the content of 8+ KOTORs would you be cool with paying $480 bucks for it? 

 

What's that? No you wouldn't? Why not. It has 8 times the content of a regular KOTOR. That'd be fair right?

What's that now? "Fair" is hater speak for I'm a hypocrite give me all your stuff for free?

GASP! SHOCK! FOR SHAME I SAY!

It's your right to be an irrational hater. It's also my right to be an irrational hater hater.

 

BTW welcome to Capitalisim. That's how we roll son.

ROFL. Trying to explain to these people that MMOs are a business and that money makes the world go round is like trying to explain reading to dogs. It's a wasted effort. It doesn't matter to them that most sandbox games have failed and companies lose money when trying to cater to that niche market. Darkfall is just the latest example.

Originally posted by ktanner3

 

ROFL. Trying to explain to these people that MMOs are a business and that money makes the world go round is like trying to explain reading to dogs. It's a wasted effort. It doesn't matter to them that most sandbox games have failed and companies lose money when trying to cater to that niche market. Darkfall is just the latest example.

There are artists, writers, chefs, musicians, and others in the world who create for the sake of creating. Not all of them cater to the lowest common denominator, and that can apply to games as well.

In fact, many games have been made that were created simply because the DEVS wated to create a game...not to compete with the #1 rated games, or to become filthy rich.

Let's just look at companies such as ID Software, as an example.

Your mis-worded assertion that GREED makes the world go 'round is bullshit, sorry to say. Not everyone walks around with $$ signs in their eyes, ready to sell out to make a fast buck.

Darkfall, by the way didn't "fail" as a result of "catering to a niche market"....it bombed because 10% of the promised features were included, and then AV tried to rip off it's loyal NA customer base. They learned the lesson of SOE: don't fuck over your fans.

As long as a game turns a profit, it has done fine. A Developer can stay true to their vision, and create the game they want to create, and still do quite fine...it's not always about the big bucks.

But I wouldn't expect some of you to understand concepts such as Integrity.

I dont have any hate towards TOR but I'm not a huge fan of mmos that have a strict script to follow like these games anymore. From what I've seen in the past it can lead to a games downfall because they are trying to please the hard-core fans as well as the average gamers such as myself who just want to have fun.

LOTRO is a good example. Most playing it now are probly the avid fans and the choose to stick with it because of the title. But in reality its an average mmo at best. People such as myself played it and slowly grow bored of it because of many different reasons while the big tolkien fans continue to talk it up for something it isnt.

I wish TOR the best but if Bioware doesn't do things right it will likely end up an average mmo with a small following, which isnt that bad I suppose. I for one am looking for a world thats well thought out and unique, not a world copied from the movies and books...I'm paying the company each month, give me something you've created yourself. :-)

I can see TOR has caused quite a lot of controversy. In my personal opinion... i believe its too early to start "hating" or "flaming" the game. Sure your complains are based on the information Bioware has given us... but my take on this is the following:

Bioware is focusing on telling us the new and "innovative" features of their game, beeing story driven, fully voiced, and the likes... Theres still a lot of info we dont know... heck we dont even know all the classes that will be available!

So, i do understand the complains, but lets just wait and see... Lets wait for the beta and see how it plays through. I try to see the positive side of things, i believe theres a ton of info they have yet to release and i trust Bioware wont make a game thats just crap :p

My first real MMO was WoW, I'm a Star Wars /Sci-fi Fan and I'm generally a solo player. SWTOR should be my ideal game, right ? Wrong.

I'm tired of pre-defined choices, colorful/toony art, null end-game. Dumber and dumber games to cross-port on consoles and get teens' money (via daddy's CC). I tasted Eve's freedom and now all that gives me the nausea. It's a pity for what could've been a really great game and instead will be another Theme-park (a polished, well-written Theme-park, thanks to Bioware skills but a Theme-park nonetheless). I suppose this is one of the reasons people got angry at.

But, whatever own's legitimate opinions, I wish the game and its fans best luck.

Originally posted by Rydeson

THEN charge a single price of $59.95 like all the other linear RPG's..  To add some lame ass online teaming up option to justify calling it a MMO so that you can charge the monthly fee like others is just BULLSH*T... For that I will hate Bioware all I want :)  To me it's just used car sales tactics to turn a buck... SHAME BIOWARE.. SHAME

The game isn't even out yet and there is not that much information released either.

Just wait with the hate until the game is released at least.

"Only a fool hates what he does not understand"

And for the sandbox people: Just because another company made a SW sandbox game doesn't mean Bioware should do it. Other companies more experienced with andboxes are making games right now (like WoDO). Bioware owes SWG fans nothing whatsoever. Wait and see until the game is out with the judgement.

It is good that they are not copying other succeful MMOs like most other companies. If it will be a good MMO of it is still impossible to say but they are at least trying new things. If more companys did that we wouldn't have a zillion EQ/Wow clones and not much else on the market.

My take on this extremely long thread:

I loved pre-NGE Star Wars Galaxies, but I'm okay with the fact that SW:TOR will be a theme park game. The fact that BioWare is developing it makes me hopeful that it will be something fresh, different and enjoyable. KotOR was extremely fun and immersive, depite that fact that it was also quite linear (as most of BioWare's games tend to be).

Still, I really have to wonder where the MMO part of SW:TOR will come in. Everyone's a hero, every bounty hunter will have a jetpack and a flamethrower (and seemingly Mandalorian armor), it's based heavily on an involving story and even has a dialogue choice wheel like Mass Effect... where will the MMO part come in, and how rich, complex and long-lasting will the MMO part ultimately be?

Guess that remains to be seen.

My biggest pet peeve with SW:TOR so far are the jumbo-sized, comic-derived PlaySkool lightsaber hilts. I'm fine with the comic book styling, but they really should slim the lightsaber hilts down despite that.

Originally posted by Wharg0ul

Originally posted by ktanner3

 

ROFL. Trying to explain to these people that MMOs are a business and that money makes the world go round is like trying to explain reading to dogs. It's a wasted effort. It doesn't matter to them that most sandbox games have failed and companies lose money when trying to cater to that niche market. Darkfall is just the latest example.

 

There are artists, writers, chefs, musicians, and others in the world who create for the sake of creating. Not all of them cater to the lowest common denominator, and that can apply to games as well.

Here we go again. Just because the game isn't going in the direction you like doesn't mean that it's catering to the lowest common denominator. It seems to me the game is focusing on being fun. I'm so sorry that it isn't the old boring "grind for hours" leveling that some of you get off on. I realize that some players want to live a second life within a video game. Unfortunetly, games are more expensive to create than books,food or music.

In fact, many games have been made that were created simply because the DEVS wated to create a game...not to compete with the #1 rated games, or to become filthy rich.

And they don't last very long.

Let's just look at companies such as ID Software, as an example.

None of which were MMOs and they were recently aquired by Zenimax Media.

Your mis-worded assertion that GREED makes the world go 'round is bullshit, sorry to say. Not everyone walks around with $$ signs in their eyes, ready to sell out to make a fast buck.

I didn't say greed you friggin moron. I said money. Without money, the developer can't create the game and without continued money, the MMO dies. Big difference.

Darkfall, by the way didn't "fail" as a result of "catering to a niche market"....it bombed because 10% of the promised features were included, and then AV tried to rip off it's loyal NA customer base. They learned the lesson of SOE: don't fuck over your fans.

Yes yes. Once again it was the developers and not the design.

As long as a game turns a profit, it has done fine. A Developer can stay true to their vision, and create the game they want to create, and still do quite fine...it's not always about the big bucks.

No where did I say it was about the big bucks. But sandbox games aren't even successful enough to pay the rent.That's why so few are even made. Believe me, I wish they were more successful if nothing else to keep you people from trolling forums of games that aren't sandboxes.

But I wouldn't expect some of you to understand concepts such as Integrity.

No need to get snotty. It's not my fault that you are completely ignorant of such concepts as markets,business and profit. MMO's aren't places for you to live your socialist utpoia.

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by Wharg0ul

Originally posted by ktanner3

 

ROFL. Trying to explain to these people that MMOs are a business and that money makes the world go round is like trying to explain reading to dogs. It's a wasted effort. It doesn't matter to them that most sandbox games have failed and companies lose money when trying to cater to that niche market. Darkfall is just the latest example.

 

There are artists, writers, chefs, musicians, and others in the world who create for the sake of creating. Not all of them cater to the lowest common denominator, and that can apply to games as well.

Here we go again. Just because the game isn't going in the direction you like doesn't mean that it's catering to the lowest common denominator. It seems to me the game is focusing on being fun. I'm so sorry that it isn't the old boring "grind for hours" leveling that some of you get off on. I realize that some players want to live a second life within a video game. Unfortunetly, games are more expensive to create than books,food or music.

In fact, many games have been made that were created simply because the DEVS wated to create a game...not to compete with the #1 rated games, or to become filthy rich.

And they don't last very long.

Let's just look at companies such as ID Software, as an example.

None of which were MMOs and they were recently aquired by Zenimax Media.

Your mis-worded assertion that GREED makes the world go 'round is bullshit, sorry to say. Not everyone walks around with $$ signs in their eyes, ready to sell out to make a fast buck.

I didn't say greed you friggin moron. I said money. Without money, the developer can't create the game and without continued money, the MMO dies. Big difference.

Darkfall, by the way didn't "fail" as a result of "catering to a niche market"....it bombed because 10% of the promised features were included, and then AV tried to rip off it's loyal NA customer base. They learned the lesson of SOE: don't fuck over your fans.

Yes yes. Once again it was the developers and not the design.

As long as a game turns a profit, it has done fine. A Developer can stay true to their vision, and create the game they want to create, and still do quite fine...it's not always about the big bucks.

No where did I say it was about the big bucks. But sandbox games aren't even successful enough to pay the rent.That's why so few are even made. Believe me, I wish they were more successful if nothing else to keep you people from trolling forums of games that aren't sandboxes.

But I wouldn't expect some of you to understand concepts such as Integrity.

No need to get snotty. It's not my fault that you are completely ignorant of such concepts as markets,business and profit. MMO's aren't places for you to live your socialist utpoia.

 

It's funny how Eve goes against every point you try to make.

It seems to me the real issue is that Bioware looks like they will be the first MMO developers to give equal treatment to multiple play styles.  No more preferential treatment towards hardcores or raiders or PvPers.  A boon to players who have always been second class in previous MMOs and a bane to those who are used to being top dogs.

There will be raiding and crafting and PvP included in the game, along with all of the usual MMO content, but they are making it pretty clear that these types of content and the players who love them will not be exclusive or elite.  It's a bitter pill for the "I am the Joneses" crowd to swallow, because now the average Joe is being given the opportunity to keep up with them.  Considering the different interviews and the general design philosophy of Bioware, I don't think elitist hardcores will be catered to like they've come to expect from this genre.

 I'll be looking forward to those updates when they come out. I'm curious how PVP will work along with the economy.