http://www.massively.com/2009/08/04/no-experience-no-levels-in-final-fantasy-xiv/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGRT9h3Siao&feature=player_embedded

no way.... this can't be FF then

I hope they can pull this off because it strikes me as a pretty bold move.

I'm guessing that they're trying to re-invent the MMO to some degree to get players enjoying the story as opposed to rushing to max level. I really hope they can achieve it.

MMOs should be about the world and the adventures, not about powerlevelling, botting, gold-buying etc.

A good MMO should be in some way like a book or a movie where you enjoy the process rather than rushing through it as fast as you can.

Originally posted by Miner-2049er

I hope they can pull this off because it strikes me as a pretty bold move.

I'm guessing that they're trying to re-invent the MMO to some degree to get players enjoying the story as opposed to rushing to max level. I really hope they can achieve it.

MMOs should be about the world and the adventures, not about powerlevelling, botting, gold-buying etc.

A good MMO should be in some way like a book or a movie where you enjoy the process rather than rushing through it as fast as you can.

I couldn't agree more. I do believe they'll reinvent MMO's and set a new standard. These ideas are what attracted me to MMO's to begin with - the idea of a game that never really ended. You completed quest lines and story lines, but there would always be something new coming. These are games that should take a long LONG time to beat. It's never my goal to completely dominate them. I actually like how easy it is to die in Final Fantasy XI, even at lv.75, unlike most console RPG's where by the time you're strong enough to beat the game there's nothing that can touch you. You get all the ultimate weapons and unlock all the skills and for what? There's nothing left to buy, nothing left to kill, no more story, no more challenge & no more fun.

I hate the race to level in Final Fantasy XI. I'd make a friend, we'd have an awesome time partying together for maybe a few weeks to a month, then they'd get uber-strong all of a sudden while I dropped out of the "race" and changed jobs, never to hear from them again because I wasn't any more use to them. I lost a lot of friends at the hands of power-leveling guilds and gil-sellers. I'm sure there will be exploits as there are in any game, but this is hopefully the first of many steps that will deter them from ruining true gamers experiences.

Originally posted by Miner-2049er

MMOs should be about the world and the adventures, not about powerlevelling, botting, gold-buying etc.

A good MMO should be in some way like a book or a movie where you enjoy the process rather than rushing through it as fast as you can.

Amen.

 

Originally posted by Miner-2049er

MMOs should be about the world and the adventures, not about powerlevelling, botting, gold-buying etc.

A good MMO should be in some way like a book or a movie where you enjoy the process rather than rushing through it as fast as you can.

I also agree but as long as there is an "end" there will always be a rush there.

Dont forget final fantasy is as old as video game rpgs themselves ... they can reinvent the rpg genre easily.

Im sure they will have something to keep us addicted for years

I really hope they can get this to work properly. I have always been one of those story/lore guys who really enjoys exploring the world of an rpg. However, in most mmo's I get the feeling that I need to quest and level as much as possible otherwise I won't get my 15 dollar's worth.

I think a re-inventing is in order for the mmo genre. Imo, spending 50 dollars on a game and then spending 15 bucks a month for a game that "doesn't begin" until you invested 300 hours into the game is sad and unfortunate.

So, as long as you do this correctly FFXIV, bravo on your decision to eliminate leveling. As long as there is SOME way to distinguish yourself from the newbie players, i.e. titles and gear, then it sounds good to me.

Wow...this sounds awesome.   I truly hope they can pull it off because this would be a departure from the norm and could be what sparks a new era in MMORPG development.    ^_^

Originally posted by Teala

Wow...this sounds awesome.   I truly hope they can pull it off because this would be a departure from the norm and could be what sparks a new era in MMORPG development.    ^_^

Ditto. 

Originally posted by Miner-2049er
MMOs should be about the world and the adventures, not about powerlevelling, botting, gold-buying etc.

A good MMO should be in some way like a book or a movie where you enjoy the process rather than rushing through it as fast as you can.

____________________________________________________________________________________________

While I agree that an MMO should be about a "world", I am wary of MMO's too tied to forced story lines.  To me, there is nothing more irritating that being forced to act out some linear quest scene with an NPC.  A lot of games are too linear and forced these days, like being in a movie and being occasionally allowed to participate.

Give me a world and let me interact with it.

Can anyone say Final Fantasy sandbox?

 I think we're getting ahead of ourselves. They are saying no levels but they'll be some form of advancement. To me it sounds like it could be similar to Final Fantasy IX where you unlocked skills depending on what weapons you use. They said that people will want to wear a variety of equipment in order to be well rounded.

Who knows, but  I think they are coming off as bit gimmicky by saying there will be no levels. A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

By no experience, no levels, I'm pretty sure they are refering only to your character, and not applying the same statement to your "jobs".  I would hope they aren't being this disingenuous, but I'm trying not to get myself too worked up over these games anymore :p.  I'll say that no matter how they implement it, it'll likely be a step in the right direction for the genre.

 Well they already said their won't be "job" but instead your equipment will decide your "job" for you. Which kind of disappoints me, because if they brought anything over from XI I was hoping it would have been the job system.

Originally posted by pb1285n

 Well they already said their won't be "job" but instead your equipment will decide your "job" for you. Which kind of disappoints me, because if they brought anything over from XI I was hoping it would have been the job system.

That's what I meant, but really it is just a modified version of the job system, but it's bound to weapons.  Equip a sword, you're a swordsman, equip a staff, you're a healer.  From what I understand from the translated material, your weapons will have some sort of levels to them, thereby making them similar to the job system (in that you can "equip" and level different ones by preference.

What confuses me about the no-level, no-experience points system is how does the party system work?  If you're simply skilling up your weapon(s), why party at all?  Faster skill-ups when in a party?  That just doesn't sound right.  Or do you party just to achieve some objective (i.e. quest/mission).  And how do you gauge party strength?  "Bob you can't group with us, your sword skill is too high".  That doesn't sound right either.

Also, since by switching weapons you can assume whatever role goes with it, how challenging will the game be... "ok if Joe starts to take too much damage, everyone switch to Staff and heal him".  0.o

Originally posted by Sixpax

What confuses me about the no-level, no-experience points system is how does the party system work?  If you're simply skilling up your weapon(s), why party at all?  Faster skill-ups when in a party?  That just doesn't sound right.  Or do you party just to achieve some objective (i.e. quest/mission).  And how do you gauge party strength?  "Bob you can't group with us, your sword skill is too high".  That doesn't sound right either.

Also, since by switching weapons you can assume whatever role goes with it, how challenging will the game be... "ok if Joe starts to take too much damage, everyone switch to Staff and heal him".  0.o

Based on what I can infer from their updates on the official site today, I'd say your active and passive abilities are directly tied to your weapon type.  So if you're a grandmaster sorceror but a novice swordsman, you'd be far more effective dealing damage as the sorceror (obviously), because you'd have the more advanced skillsets.  Likewise, anyone could switch to healer on the fly, but if you only have Cure 1 by default, you're probably better off sticking with your main role in a group.  How exactly we will be able to determine other players' abilities I'm not sure yet, we'll see.