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This is my first politicial post. Probably not my last. Over the years, more and more americans have made America a "Safer" place. Or so they seem. People like PETA and Wildlife protectors are going around spreding lies and defending what they belive in, so why do I think thats rubbish? I think its complete rubbish because since the enviromentalists want to save the animals so damn much, people die in floods because they dont want us to drench rivers and dig out the loose sand that is elevating our water levels. This regards the Washington flood. So please Wildlife protectors out there, go shoot your self if you think we are hurting the enviroment, because all your doing is killing us. Now for prisons, and why they are full. SO you all know about Death Row right? Well its escelating through huge emounts of people in line to be killed. So why aint they going through them faster to shorten the row? Well for one thing, we Americans think for some god damn reason that Lethal injection and other tourcher devices are "inhumane". All I have to say is, you or them? Do you want a murderer to live a siphon a bunch of the governments money just to keep a guy who killed your family or knifed a random person walking down the street alive? Thats inhumane if you ask me. And also, if your 50 years old for example, and are sentenced to life in prison or 50+ years in prison, then why arnt you on death row? Why siphon my, our tax payers money to keep these MFers alive. Letting someone rot, imo is inhumane, kill them where they stand and end there, and our pain.
Do you agree? |
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8/06/09 8:37:02 PM#2
Lol yeah. Remindes me of the Shuttle's Fule tank. the Glue was changed to protect the Ozone and seven astronaughts are dead. Nice one people. If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. |
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8/06/09 9:02:33 PM#3
Prisons aren't full because of inmates on death row. There's only a small percent actually on death row.
Bureau of Justice stats:
I don't call 3,220 inmates the cause of full prisons especially out of:
Drugs have a lot to do with prisons being full nowadays. Considering you're talking about Washington, I'm sure you realize the rampant methamphetimine problem up there. |
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8/06/09 9:16:05 PM#4
Originally posted by Azzthuras Yeah eye for an eye kill all the murdering bastards. They shouldn't be drawing breath and eating on our dime. |
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8/06/09 9:19:09 PM#5
For the most part, prisons are full because of the war on drugs. |
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8/06/09 10:01:29 PM#6
The American legal system was orginally founded on the modest and simple opinion that we'd rather see 50 murders walk than have 1 innocent man killed by the state. Now since then a lot of things have changed but stigmas based on that system like avoiding the death penalty even when a state has it remain even if the people who hold those views don't know why they do. |
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8/06/09 10:59:54 PM#7
Concerning flooding have you heard of Flood defences? Perhaps those chosing to live in a flood risk area should invest in some. Or you could move out of the flood risk zone.
Concerning Prison overcrowding like its been stated in a previouse post Death row inmates make up only a tiny fraction of inmates, the real cause of overcrowding is a mix of not enough prisons and the war on drugs. Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981 |
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DailyBuzz
Guide
Joined: 9/25/07
Hey guys, I broke this...anyone know how to fix it? |
8/06/09 11:35:01 PM#8
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8/06/09 11:45:08 PM#9
Stop incarcerating people for simple possession and we'll be fine. Giving someone 10 years for having an 8 ball of coke is insane. Dangerous people belong in prisons, those who simply use drugs don't. The two aren't mutually exclusive. |
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tvalentine
Advanced Member
Joined: 4/01/06
“The things you own end up owning you.” -Tyler Durden |
8/06/09 11:50:40 PM#10
Originally posted by popinjay
QFT. If we just legalized the prisons would be more vacant, saving money for tax payers and giving more money to the govt through drug taxes. Although everyone still has that mentality of "drugs are bad, people shouldnt decide for themselves if they want to put what they want in their body." |
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8/06/09 11:55:30 PM#11
Crime has dropped dramatically since we pursued an incarceration policy. Rehabilitation has limited impact, perhaps drug rehabilitation has greater success but it must be coerced.
In the 70s, murder rates were 40% higher. Today, New York is America's safest big city. We had people walking down the street and rolex watches being ripped off their wrists and sold down the street.
Incarceration works. Decriminalizing drugs is not a solution. People are already too doped-up. We need less of it. |
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8/07/09 12:14:44 AM#12
Disagree with the characterization, as well as the idea. Those people who are in jail for drugs are not all in jail for stealing rolexes off people's arms. Every situation is different. You seem to be mixing the two together and branding them all.
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8/07/09 12:22:24 AM#13
Originally posted by popinjay
I am not mixing them together at all; they are already fully together like Ozzie and Harriet. If they could not afford to sustain and feed their habits, guess whose house they rob? Guess what store they rob?
Incarceration does, and has been, working. |
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8/07/09 12:33:32 AM#14
Bureau of Justice:
Again, we are just making BETTER criminals. |
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8/07/09 12:37:47 AM#15
Originally posted by popinjay
I am not sure I comprehend your analysis. You seem to support my premise, viz. that criminals ought not to be released to preclude their opportunities (motive, means) to commit ANY crimes. |
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8/07/09 12:55:36 AM#16
Sorry let me try to explain it better.
According to the data, when this happens with sex offenders, they come back to jail again on NEW crimes at a rate of 43%. When its a NON-sex offender, they come back even more often... at a rate of 68 percent. Recidivism happens for a variety of reasons, not the least is after spending time in jail with nothing but other criminals, there is a mindset that happens where criminals accept the incareration. This is not good because eventually, 90% of inmates are released back into the nation at some point.
Women were 6.6% of the State prison inmates in 2001, up from 6% in 1995. My contention is that we are making better criminals, or professional ones. Now given a fifth (20%) at least are in for drug crimes that should be dealt with in a non-criminal capacity. If certain drugs were legalized, that would lessen the amount of criminals. Certainly in the short term, but probably in the long term. |
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8/07/09 1:02:36 AM#17
Originally posted by popinjay
Your point is that our incarceration strategy is producing "better criminals" or "professional" crimes? Why do you assume that 20% of drug crimes "should be dealt with in a non-criminal capacity"?
"If certain drugs were legalized, that would lessen the amount of criminals." I am not comfortable with this argument because, e.g., if we legalized retail theft, there would be less thieves. You say "probably" for the long term, but I think it is a groundless theory because it is based on decriminalization and not reform. People will still need, since we are talking about drugs, to find sources for their habit.
Drugs . . . once you have had it, you can not get enough of the stuff. EDIT: And by the way we already have alternative programs for drug offenders to avoid jail time. Many offenders just have to satisfactorily complete probation to avoid a drug offense even being entered against their record. The system and programs are already in place today. |
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8/07/09 1:19:25 AM#18
How can you produce a "professional crime"?
We don't need jails were we lock drug users up with hardened criminals. We need facilities where they can be weeded out and treated away from those people.
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8/07/09 4:29:36 PM#19
Originally posted by popinjay
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8/07/09 6:29:00 PM#20
Hmmm.. You asked this:
1 and 2. You asked that question after I already had said TWICE in two separate posts earlier in this thread that "we" are producing "better criminals". Do you not see there that you asked me are "our" strategy is producing "better criminals or professional crimes" there?
Incarceration results in recidivism at a high rate, which I gave numbers for. When you lock up "drug abusers" along with hardened criminals simply because they do drugs you don't get better citizens later, you get better criminals. Those people involved with drug crimes that have been classified as having drug problems should NOT be locked up with the general population, but should be in a treatment facility; preferably minimum security where they can be treated at a much lower cost than a maximum prison. Since they will return to society a LOT sooner than the average murderer or violent felon, it makes no sense to me to have them bunked along side those. They won't get anything out of that other than to return to jail for something else.
5. Certainly we need jails. This is not a point of debate from any logical person I don't think.
It was no assumption about your personal life, habits, or whatever so I'm not sure why you took that so to heart and I apologize for your misunderstanding of it. But I don't think I can clarify anything further other than to say you feel all "druggies" should go to prison, and I do not so we'll leave it at that because it's not my intention to anger you and I still have no idea why you got so. |
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8/07/09 7:32:06 PM#21
Actually both environmental and prison overcrowding issues can be successfully resolved if we will just allow BuReLoc (Bureau of Relocation) to do their job. That job is to ship persons convicted of a crime outbound to a colony world immediately upon passage of sentence. It makes the cities on this planet safer, mitigates increasing demands upon the planetary eco-system, and provides a source of labor for colonial expansion. In exchange the convicted felon receives the opportunity to rehabilitate themself and get in on the ground floor of an emerging society by establishing a vested interest in the survival of the colony world.
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8/07/09 7:34:40 PM#22
Originally posted by olddaddy
G'day mate.
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8/07/09 7:42:31 PM#23
Originally posted by Munki
G'day mate.
G'day..... |
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