Originally posted by argos5

19 hours to go from 44 to 45... seems normal, I remember classic WoW being like that early on to some degree and EQ as well. But let's talk about the grand-daddy of all leveling times... how long does it take to gain a level in FFXI towards the end game? Since 44-45 is like 54-55 in WoW/EQ and FFXI is like what--- 70s ish towards level max?

Is FFXI a bigger grind than Lineage 2?

I don't mind a more challenging grind than WOW's or any other recent game. Something along the lines of early DAOC would be fine, but I'm hoping its not L2's grind through the upper level because I gave up on that game in the early days at level 51 because the grind grew too great.

Originally posted by markoraos

Originally posted by Ephimero

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by b00m85

 

You act as if leveling to 25 is a chore. It can be done within a beta weekend... sooo I am sorry you get to learn the game before PvP and consider this hard work to get where you want. =/

No one learns how to PvP from PvE content.

25 levels IS a chore, if it's not the content I want to play. It's going to be even more of a chore each time I level an alt.

 

So you're going to keep leveling alts in order to PvP? Sounds like a pro strategy. You might be able to get level 30 abyss boots in a character and level 30 abyss gloves in another!!!

 

Well some people still have this outlandish notion that they play games for something other than hoarding gear or whatever "+xyz" or whatever. The oldest and the foggiest of those ancient grognards would even venture that games should primarily provide something called "fun". Yes, I know how crazy it sounds to the D&D/EQ/WoW generation, but there still are people out there remembering RPGs that didn't have any grind in them, and especially no level grind.

To MMO_doubter - leave them be mate.. you can't explain things to kids who think that D&D is the only pen-and-paper RPG system ever made and that "RPG = game with levels". Don't bother, we lost the battle a long time ago, the bad guys won and maybe we should just retire with dignity.

I started MMOs with EQ1.... It was "FUN" because of the journey, it was not a race to max level, it was a fun journey to max level that each player got to pick how fast they wanted to get to max.   Max level was not the goal of the game.
 

Secondly, Every MMORPG has a grind, period.  I am so sick of hearing "I do not want to grind or something close to this"   EVERY MMORPG HAS A GRIND.  That is how it is.  Deal with it or leave the genre.

D&D is the most famous pen and paper RPG system made hense why everyone knows what D&D is.   RPG does not equal levels,   RPG = role playing game.   See I know what RPG means and I am from your "EQ" generation bullshit.... Stop generalizing please, you look like a fool.

Game are fun for different reason to different people, I do not understand how people still do not get this.   Just because something is not fun for you does not mean it is not fun for me.

Personally, I love games that you have to group to advance and that have challenging content that requires thinking and problem solving.

FYI, I play games because I enjoy problem solving, it has nothing to do with getting loot.... I could careless about getting loot in all honest.  I just do not care about that stuff.    My EQ Necromancer is very undergeared because I pass on stuff to others all the time.

Hard grind = motivation to group to go faster

which is fantastic if you ask me

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by markoraos

Originally posted by patrikd23

Originally posted by //\\//\\oo

That's right folks: The last 10 levels or so are what you would have found in Lineage 2.

Ironically, the first 20 lvls aren't that hard to obtain; maybe something along the lines of getting level 25-30 of WoW (depending on your class), but then it transforms from something slightly more grindy than WoW to an L2-esque grind.

www.aionsource.com/forum/general-discussion/32477-i-need-grind-19-hours-level-44-45-_.html

I thought I had researched this game sufficiently and I even played closed beta, but due to the level cap (30), I never could find out what exactly the last few levels are all about. Now, there is definitely a grind in WoW for the last 10 levels if you will it to be and refuse to quest, but there are more quests that are available (by far) than need to be done to actually hit 80.

One of the reasons WoW was one of the few games where I could hit max level was due to the reliance on quests for advancement and not grinding: I completely lost the capability to grind after having leveled a druid bear in Diablo 2 Hardcore up to 90's.

If there's one thing I can't stand now after having been spoiled by WoW, Age of Conan, EQ2, etc. it's having to kill the same monster over and over again for no lore reasons and with no variety; it's a perfect incentive to use a bot, or have somebody else play for you. What further compounds the issue is that PvP supposedly becomes more balanced at 50, so a taste of the end-game really can't be experienced until max level when the best equipment is finally available and the insane stigmas are accessible.

Even though I have experienced countless problems with gameguard, this is probably the one factor that is swaying me to cancel my preorder: If you are indeed a grinder, then I don't mean to disparage your preference, but I, personally, can't stand to grind.

 

 

 

 

Yeah why cant we just be max level when we login for the first time in the game...*sign*

And also I want the best gear as soon as I login for the first time also, or I am not playing. Who want to even make an effort for something, I want everything as soon as I login for the first time! :)

 

Well that's pretty much what Guild Wars had. You can level to max in under a day and you can even create a max level char from scratch. And yes it was a great success and yes, people did have a reason to play after "hitting the max" and yes they did keep buying the expansions and I'm sure they would have even happily subbed with free expansions even if there was no damned level grind. After what Guild Wars so clearly demonstrated there is no possible justification for level grinds and despicable "the game begins at endgame" and "you have to earn the right to have fun" crap in mmos.

 

See this is where personal preference and playstyle comes in. *You* see it as "having to earn the right to have fun". What you see as the "earning" part, others see as entertaining. Different people find different things entertaining... Logic would dictate that you look for games that provide the gameplay you're looking for in the format you're looking for.

Guild Wars did prove that a setup like that could work if done well. However, not everyone likes GW's setup and prefer the way other MMOs are. So perhaps the demand should be for more new MMOs to come out following a similar format to GW, to co-exist along side those setup the way Aion or Lineage 2 or WAR, or whatever.

This idea of "GW's setup proves that other MMO's are flawed if they aren't set up the same" is a very narrow-minded and, frankly, self-serving argument to make. GW's setup works for *you* and others who think like you... It doesn't work for everyone.



 

Could be, but what we have now is a gazillion of "leveling" clones and not one "lateral progression" clone. That's a huge disparity right there. The mainstream mmo devs are still dead locked into the leveling paradigm which I could still argue, quite logically, isn't really inherently appropriate for a massively multiplayer environment. It might be one of the viable options for RPG part of the MMORPG but it really isn't for a "MMO" rpg - there is a billion of quite serious downfalls from using this in a persisten mmo environment - stratification of players, content redundancy at max level, inherent limited character customizability, short game life-span due to linear rigid design necessitated by the need for careful content balancing, lack of open-world immerision due to the need to compartmentalize,  balancing hell in PvP inviting all kinds of gimmicky solutions... Basically vertical char advancement scheme is the WORST you can pick for a massively multiplayer game that you want to be a persistent world to boot.

I'm an old fart and 15 years ago my pen-and-paper crowd used to laugh at the kids playing D&D and the "leveling" RPG games. It was such and old an deeply flawed mechanic that we simply couldn't believe anyone would subscribe to this while there are so many much much better options available. I'm sorry but I'm still flabbergasted that this crap is still holding on. It's like you're puting stone wheels on your car, it simply is the dumps in the "serious" pen-and-paper RPG world.

Originally posted by Sigilaea

Originally posted by argos5

19 hours to go from 44 to 45... seems normal, I remember classic WoW being like that early on to some degree and EQ as well. But let's talk about the grand-daddy of all leveling times... how long does it take to gain a level in FFXI towards the end game? Since 44-45 is like 54-55 in WoW/EQ and FFXI is like what--- 70s ish towards level max?

 

Is FFXI a bigger grind than Lineage 2?

Without a doubt. Making a level in FFXI was a joyus event past 20 or so.

Originally posted by markoraos

Originally posted by Ephimero

Originally posted by markoraos

Originally posted by Ephimero

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by b00m85

 

You act as if leveling to 25 is a chore. It can be done within a beta weekend... sooo I am sorry you get to learn the game before PvP and consider this hard work to get where you want. =/

No one learns how to PvP from PvE content.

25 levels IS a chore, if it's not the content I want to play. It's going to be even more of a chore each time I level an alt.

 

So you're going to keep leveling alts in order to PvP? Sounds like a pro strategy. You might be able to get level 30 abyss boots in a character and level 30 abyss gloves in another!!!

 

Well some people still have this outlandish notion that they play games for something other than hoarding gear or whatever "+xyz" or whatever. The oldest and the foggiest of those ancient grognards would even venture that games are for something called "fun". Yes, I know how crazy it sounds to the D&D/EQ/WoW generation, but there still are people out there remembering RPGs that didn't have any grind in them, and especially no level grind.

To MMO_doubter - leave them be mate.. you can't explain things to kids who think that D&D is the only RPG system ever made and that "RPG = game with levels". Don't bother, we lost the battle a long time ago, the bad guys won and maybe we should retire with dignity.

 

I started in this genre with UO so cut the levels crap with me.

The "fun" term is completely subjective, and I'm one who thinks that things are funnier if a community is well stablished, any game that discourages altoholic behaviors is supporting this concept.

Why the fuck do you keep coming to already developed games to ask for insta gratification? that's something I can't understand.

 

What sodding "instant gratification" are you talking about you anally fixated masochistic moron?

Go bang your head against a wall or something so you can feel "superior" or "uber" you managed to "endure it". WTF? When I buy a fucking product for a good amount of fucking hard cold cash I expect it to deliver from second 1. Anything else is just bollocks and bad entertainment product - it is a cheat, a con trick a snake oil. 

This is only true if it's a game that is intended/promised to cater specifically to what you're looking for and fails to. If not, then the problem is yours, not the game's.

It really is as simple as that and as long as there are ego-challenged insecure masochists like you around the EQ/WoW-crap is going to continue. Well sod off, I don't really care for this genre anymore since I see what the "projected target audience" is. If I buy a can od Cola I expect to drink fucking cola and not be forced to drink a nice warm cupppa of fresh cow piss... and than say "thank you for giving me an opportunity to prove my shaky manhood by drinking cow's piss, can I have my Cola now?" 

Again, you have every right to complain if the product is promised to be Cola, and you get 'Sprite' instead. But if the product isn't promoted as 'Cola' and you drink it anyway... then you have no right to complain. You chose the wrong product for what you were looking for. They didn't "fail to deliver".

Frankly, it seems you need to look beyond yourself. Not everything is supposed to cater to what you want, nor is it automatically "flawed" if it doesn't.

Originally posted by grndzro

Originally posted by Sigilaea

Originally posted by argos5

19 hours to go from 44 to 45... seems normal, I remember classic WoW being like that early on to some degree and EQ as well. But let's talk about the grand-daddy of all leveling times... how long does it take to gain a level in FFXI towards the end game? Since 44-45 is like 54-55 in WoW/EQ and FFXI is like what--- 70s ish towards level max?

 

Is FFXI a bigger grind than Lineage 2?

 

Without a doubt. Making a level in FFXI was a joyus event past 20 or so.

Yeah... Lineage 2, gaining a level is great--- but when you gain a level in FFXI, you'd take a long break and host a Rave to celebrate you gained a level. And no one would really complain about how long it takes to gain a level... why? Because the after-parties were flippin awesome!

Originally posted by markoraos

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by markoraos

Originally posted by patrikd23

Originally posted by //\\//\\oo

That's right folks: The last 10 levels or so are what you would have found in Lineage 2.

Ironically, the first 20 lvls aren't that hard to obtain; maybe something along the lines of getting level 25-30 of WoW (depending on your class), but then it transforms from something slightly more grindy than WoW to an L2-esque grind.

www.aionsource.com/forum/general-discussion/32477-i-need-grind-19-hours-level-44-45-_.html

I thought I had researched this game sufficiently and I even played closed beta, but due to the level cap (30), I never could find out what exactly the last few levels are all about. Now, there is definitely a grind in WoW for the last 10 levels if you will it to be and refuse to quest, but there are more quests that are available (by far) than need to be done to actually hit 80.

One of the reasons WoW was one of the few games where I could hit max level was due to the reliance on quests for advancement and not grinding: I completely lost the capability to grind after having leveled a druid bear in Diablo 2 Hardcore up to 90's.

If there's one thing I can't stand now after having been spoiled by WoW, Age of Conan, EQ2, etc. it's having to kill the same monster over and over again for no lore reasons and with no variety; it's a perfect incentive to use a bot, or have somebody else play for you. What further compounds the issue is that PvP supposedly becomes more balanced at 50, so a taste of the end-game really can't be experienced until max level when the best equipment is finally available and the insane stigmas are accessible.

Even though I have experienced countless problems with gameguard, this is probably the one factor that is swaying me to cancel my preorder: If you are indeed a grinder, then I don't mean to disparage your preference, but I, personally, can't stand to grind.

 

 

 

 

Yeah why cant we just be max level when we login for the first time in the game...*sign*

And also I want the best gear as soon as I login for the first time also, or I am not playing. Who want to even make an effort for something, I want everything as soon as I login for the first time! :)

 

Well that's pretty much what Guild Wars had. You can level to max in under a day and you can even create a max level char from scratch. And yes it was a great success and yes, people did have a reason to play after "hitting the max" and yes they did keep buying the expansions and I'm sure they would have even happily subbed with free expansions even if there was no damned level grind. After what Guild Wars so clearly demonstrated there is no possible justification for level grinds and despicable "the game begins at endgame" and "you have to earn the right to have fun" crap in mmos.

 

See this is where personal preference and playstyle comes in. *You* see it as "having to earn the right to have fun". What you see as the "earning" part, others see as entertaining. Different people find different things entertaining... Logic would dictate that you look for games that provide the gameplay you're looking for in the format you're looking for.

Guild Wars did prove that a setup like that could work if done well. However, not everyone likes GW's setup and prefer the way other MMOs are. So perhaps the demand should be for more new MMOs to come out following a similar format to GW, to co-exist along side those setup the way Aion or Lineage 2 or WAR, or whatever.

This idea of "GW's setup proves that other MMO's are flawed if they aren't set up the same" is a very narrow-minded and, frankly, self-serving argument to make. GW's setup works for *you* and others who think like you... It doesn't work for everyone.



 

 

Could be, but what we have now is a gazillion of "leveling" clones and not one "lateral progression" clone. That's a huge disparity right there. The mainstream mmo devs are still dead locked into the leveling paradigm which I could still argue, quite logically, isn't really inherently appropriate for a massively multiplayer environment. It might be one of the viable options for RPG part of the MMORPG but it really isn't for a "MMO" rpg - there is a billion of quite serious downfalls from using this in a persisten mmo environment - stratification of players, content redundancy at max level, inherent limited character customizability, short game life-span due to linear rigid design necessitated by the need for careful content balancing, lack of open-world immerision due to the need to compartmentalize,  balancing hell in PvP inviting all kinds of gimmicky solutions... Basically vertical char advancement scheme is the WORST you can pick for a massively multiplayer game that you want to be a persistent world to boot.

Precisely why I love FFXI. The leveling paradigm is there, but much of the game's progress is lateral as well, and there is a lot of "lateral" content in the game, at pretty much all levels. Another thing I think is brilliant about FFXI, and I wish more MMOs would incorporate (would really combat "alt-itis) is the ability to change jobs/classes. Even the side-effect of "alt-itis" - having to repeat the same quests over and over - isn't a problem with that system since you need only one character. You never have to repeat quests when you decide to level a different job (class).

Not in any smug kind of way, but I read so many of these threads, for numerous games, with people lamenting about boring grinds, the tedium of having to repeat content over and over again to level alts, and so forth... and I think "man I'm glad FFXI is my main MMO"... I don't feel any of that tedium or repetition in that game. Then again, I don't approach MMOs the same many others do. They're a "journey" to me... not a race to some "destination" (ie. end-game).

Originally posted by argos5

Originally posted by grndzro

Originally posted by Sigilaea

Originally posted by argos5

19 hours to go from 44 to 45... seems normal, I remember classic WoW being like that early on to some degree and EQ as well. But let's talk about the grand-daddy of all leveling times... how long does it take to gain a level in FFXI towards the end game? Since 44-45 is like 54-55 in WoW/EQ and FFXI is like what--- 70s ish towards level max?

 

Is FFXI a bigger grind than Lineage 2?

 

Without a doubt. Making a level in FFXI was a joyus event past 20 or so.

 

Yeah... Lineage 2, gaining a level is great--- but when you gain a level in FFXI, you'd take a long break and host a Rave to celebrate you gained a level. And no one would really complain about how long it takes to gain a level... why? Because the after-parties were flippin awesome!

Errr... Wow. I couldn't disagree more.

You can get from 74 to 75 in maybe 5 hours or so in a good party in FFXI (speaking from experience).

In Lineage 2, getting from 74 to 75 can take all day, if not longer. You're getting like .01% of a level for every 10 kills at the higher levels of L2.

Now.. at the lower levels... up to 60 or so... Lineage 2 has been considerably sped up recently. But from 60 and up it becomes a very different deal altogether, so I guess it depends on what part of the level range you're talking about.

My first 75 in FFXI took me like 2 years haha.  That was because I was really enjoying the ride and just hanging out.  I did make a DRG and leveled from 1-75 in a static in a month though so I know if done right you could do it really fast, but the first time through why rush it.  I think every month longer it takes me to get to max the better the game is.

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by argos5

Originally posted by grndzro

Originally posted by Sigilaea

Originally posted by argos5

19 hours to go from 44 to 45... seems normal, I remember classic WoW being like that early on to some degree and EQ as well. But let's talk about the grand-daddy of all leveling times... how long does it take to gain a level in FFXI towards the end game? Since 44-45 is like 54-55 in WoW/EQ and FFXI is like what--- 70s ish towards level max?

 

Is FFXI a bigger grind than Lineage 2?

 

Without a doubt. Making a level in FFXI was a joyus event past 20 or so.

 

Yeah... Lineage 2, gaining a level is great--- but when you gain a level in FFXI, you'd take a long break and host a Rave to celebrate you gained a level. And no one would really complain about how long it takes to gain a level... why? Because the after-parties were flippin awesome!

 

Errr... Wow. I couldn't disagree more.

You can get from 74 to 75 in maybe 5 hours or so in a good party in FFXI (speaking from experience).

In Lineage 2, getting from 74 to 75 can take all day, if not longer. You're getting like .01% of a level for every 10 kills at the higher levels of L2.

Now.. at the lower levels... up to 60 or so... Lineage 2 has been considerably sped up recently. But from 60 and up it becomes a very different deal altogether, so I guess it depends on what part of the level range you're talking about.

 

Only 5 hours? Wow, I guess YOUR after-parties weren't that great, huh? :(

What happened to the good ol' days of instant gratification? Nowadays everything is a song and dance. But then again this game is a generic korean grindfest so the long leveling does fit.

I'll be staying away from this one, to much commitment and not enough payoff.

 Actually after hearing from friends that tried beta and reading this post I am actually getting exicted about this game. I was told that it wasn't a big quest fest like WoW and grouping was actuallly beneficial while leveling. I am pretty excited as was my friend that played it. It is refreshing to not have to be an errand boy the whole time running back and forth for NPCs and be able to decide for yourself what and where you want to do.

Well, I read through half of the replies here and decided to just post before I forgot what I was going to say. So if this has already been said, sorry, it was a lot to read.

1. I saw some people mention Guild Wars lets you have fun from the start. Guild Wars is still going strong. If you want Aion to be more like Guild Wars, why don't you just go play Guild Wars?

2. A lot of people seem to be ex-WAR (or "insert other MMO game here") players. I get it. You would like a game to come out that is just like WAR but without horrible a horrible end-game. I played WAR for quite a while, I was even in beta for close to a year. I quit because of the changes they made to sieges and I felt they were taking the game in the wrong direction.

I understand you would like a game to come out that has WAR's great low-level game and an improved end-game. Or a game to come out that is an upgraded more open world GW game, or WoW with better graphics.

What I don't understand is why you come to the Aion forums and complain that Aion is not WAR 2.0. This is Aion, the gameplay you want is not what the game is going to be.

No matter how much you moan and complain Aion is not going to magically turn in to a better version of WAR (or any other game). It is it's own unique game and one that I personally find incredibly fun.

The game is not designed to have us PvPing from level 1. It's designed the way it is because that's how the developers wanted it. Sorry if it's not your cup of tea, but what's the point complaining about it?

I would honestly like to know the answer to a question. What do you think you are accomplishing by posting on these forums that Aion is not like X other game? Most of us fans of the game already know it's not like those games, we have played it. And we don't WANT Aion to be like those other games.

3. I don't remember the exact amount of hours it took to get from one level to another in EQ, what I do remember is it took weeks of hardcore grinding 8+ hours a day to get there. Especially the hell levels (twice the xp required to level). I remember it took me an entire summer break grinding with my group of friends almost every day to get a few levels.

Honestly, 19 hours is really not that bad. And as many have said 1.5 has a lot of new quests and content to explore at the higher levels, so I doubt it will even take that long once the game is released in the US.

That disappoints me. I would have personally liked it if the leveling was even slower towards the end. Oh well.

4. Grouping is a ton of fun. It's not supposed to be more efficient. It's supposed to be FUN (and it is for me). Remember? The point of playing video games? Fun?

If you are only grouping with others only because it maximizes your XP gain then..... /sigh.... is this really what the genre has become? Thank god I have a group of friends to play with that don't share this mentality.

5.  Aion is not a PvP game.  I still don't understand why people keep saying this.  Right from the beginning it has always bee marketed as a PvPvE game.  You do understand what that means right?  It's more than just that there are Baldur in the Abyss, it means that the game is equally focused on PvP and PvE content.

I would think the 1.5 patch notes would make that clear with the amount of new PvE content that was added.  I guess not though.

just put this song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtuYLQj6VOs on repeat and you will notice no grind whatsoever!

Originally posted by cybertrucker

just put this song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtuYLQj6VOs on repeat and you will notice no grind whatsoever!

Thank's for the link.  Muse just gets better with every release.  Great song!

Originally posted by cybertrucker

just put this song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtuYLQj6VOs on repeat and you will notice no grind whatsoever!

Good song

Originally posted by //\\//\\oo

Originally posted by Setsunakai

20 hours for the last level of the game isn't bad at all; seeing as the initial level cap was 45( its now 50)

but its pretty short even when compared to vanilla wow 50-60

 

 

  Are you serious? I've played WoW since relase and leveled countless toons to 60 and even a few to 80, yet I've never had to grind for 20 let alone 10 hours to get anywhere in WoW. There was always a sufficient amount of quests, so that you never had to grind; though there was a lot more walking back in those days.

 

 

Quest stacking Is grinding also, it all depends on what grind a player enjoys more.

I personally like a mix of both (I will grind packs of mobs on the way to quest hubs and between missions).

Originally posted by //\\//\\oo

Originally posted by patrikd23

 

 

 

 

Yeah why cant we just be max level when we login for the first time in the game...*sign*

And also I want the best gear as soon as I login for the first time also, or I am not playing. Who want to even make an effort for something, I want everything as soon as I login for the first time! :)

 

  You're missing the point: If there were a fun way to reach lvl 50, regardless of how long it would take, then it wouldn't matter to me. What matters is that there is a huge disparity between the number of quests available and the extra number of mobs you'd have to grind after having completed the quests. From what I've read the experience gain from PvP is trivial, so ... yeah...

The game is still two months from release. More content will be added before it goes live.

Someone mentioned much earlier in the thread that as of 1.5 it is 5.6 hrs not 19 hrs. Is that false or an inconvenient fact?

Originally posted by Cyborg99

Originally posted by cybertrucker

just put this song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtuYLQj6VOs on repeat and you will notice no grind whatsoever!

 

Keep your hippie music at woodstock.

Ya really. If I had to grind out that lvl I would be listening to angry music...Heavy Metal.

Then my computer would explode from the inherant dichotomy of listening to metal while playing a game of cutesy kiwi crap.

Originally posted by Cyborg99

What happened to the good ol' days of instant gratification? Nowadays everything is a song and dance. But then again this game is a generic korean grindfest so the long leveling does fit.

I'll be staying away from this one, to much commitment and not enough payoff.

The old days of instant gratification?  What?

Maybe in another genre, but the only "old days" in the MMO genre were full of hard grinding and slow progression.  Before WoW there was no such thing as instant gratification in an MMO game.

Starting at the beginning of the genre,

The MUDs that I played took forever to level, most people never reached the level caps.

UO was a very hard grind in the beginning.  I played for 2 or 3 years (can't remember exactly now) before I made it to 7x GM and that's only because they made it easier to obtain.

Lineage 1 was worse than UO due to the incredibly harsh death penalty.

Asheron's Call takes/took 5+ years for most to reach the higher levels without bots (read: not max).

DAOC was probably the easiest classic MMO to level in. I believe when the game was first released it took about 4-6 months of grinding to reach the max level if you spent every minute in-game in an AoE group.  (Yea, you had to group to level, crazy huh?)

So I don't have any idea what instant gratification you are talking about in the "old days".  Unless what you meant by old days, was WoW.  Then I could see your point.

Some of us players miss the actual old days though.  That's one of the reasons I'm so excited about Aion.

Edit:  Whoops, left out EQ.  6-12 months to reach the end game content (depending on how much you died).  Non-stop group grinding.

---

Originally posted by //\\//\\oo

---

Originally posted by alkennjoi

wow OP, grow up and stop teh QQ

---

 
  This about sums up Aion's community. Anybody else see the irony?
 
 

---

---

Originally posted by markoraos

What sodding "instant gratification" are you talking about you anally fixated masochistic moron?

Go bang your head against a wall or something so you can feel "superior" or "uber" you managed to "endure it". WTF?

Oh well, I'm going for a month on the beach with the babes and the booze so I might as well enjoy my ban. That was some gratifying insta-gratification. :)

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It kind of makes everything you WAR fans say in this thread non-valid and look like trolling.

Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero

Originally posted by Cyborg99

Originally posted by cybertrucker

just put this song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtuYLQj6VOs on repeat and you will notice no grind whatsoever!

 

Keep your hippie music at woodstock.

 

Ya really. If I had to grind out that lvl I would be listening to angry music...Heavy Metal.

 

Then my computer would explode from the inherant dichotomy of listening to metal while playing a game of cutesy kiwi crap.

 

Dam you caught my ninja edit. I kept listening and decided I like it lol.