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Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

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Originally posted by popinjay

Seriously people need to get a grip on how much time you actually spend overall if it really is "nineteen hours". That's nothing at all. What are they expecting? Last level done in 20 minutes?

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19 hours is a lot of time if I'm doing things I'm not enjoying, but AM paying for.
How long is TOO long? 19 hours? 19 days? 19 months?
Why does it matter to you if it only takes me 19 minutes to go to max level?

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The point being, NCSoft didn't make this game for YOU. It was made for the majority of sane people who think that 3% of the time spent total (probably less) isn't too much. I've read a few of your posts and it seems you and a few other buttsore people from WAR come here and want to turn it into that: PvP from level 1. That's not going to happen, so why are you guys still whining about that?

We already saw what happens when a gaming company listens to the small fringe who know nothing about gaming and ignore the majority of people who want to have good casual fun. "Mythic listens to me.. I'm special!" Yeah, they listened to people like you until that game was ran into the ground and ignored the betatesters who said this game still sucks; put in some keeps or something.

I don't care about your leveling habits honestly, I'm pointing out how ridiculous it is to claim that 19hours is a ton 'o time. It's so small it's not even worth mentioning. If its a weekend, that level is burned through. And you want to PvP so bad, just go ahead when you hit 44 and stop complaining. Oh wait.. you're not as "uber" as the other people who "grinded" right? Tough noogies.

Again, AION wasn't made with the failed WAR player who thinks it vitally important to PvP from level 1 in mind. They have a different target audience and so far, 4 million like it. If it's not your cup of tea... move on.org

WoW has NO LEVELING whatsoever, they've killed it. Recent patch lowered buying mounts to lvl 20. With the buddy program you can GRANT levels to your friend. It's rediculous and isn't the way an MMO should be. The 10 day trial might as well be a 1 day trial because it only takes an hour to get to 20 then you have to buy the game. Of course you can quest through WoW, to the point where you can only do 10 quests because the early content is way too fast.

WoW is dying because of this, their trial isn't as good as it used to be. All games come to a point where they make leveling faster and kill the game simply to get more people to end game, what happens? The whole flow of leveling in WoW is killed and now the only reason to play is endgame.

What is endgame in Aion? It's instances. Thats it. You queue up for BG/Wintergrasp/Arena. You find a few friends and hop into an instance with a few people.

WoW is a JOKE, it's lost it's right to call itself an MMORPG, it's an MMOGAMELOBBY. Aion is a true MMORPG where the main focus is OUTSIDE OF INSTANCES.

Would Aion be better if they made each level 25% as long and made the game 200 levels? At level 40 you'd get your wings, level 80 you'd go to a pvp zone, and finally at 100 you'd goto the abyss! Your bar would go up faster. WoW was also never 45 levels long.

Trolls are funny.

Originally posted by Ephimero

 

I dont understand why ~15 hours to become level 20 and start pvping if you want to is such an inconvenience for any "high ranked" player.

I don't understand why they can't give you the option to pvp earlier. It's all about options. It's not really an inconvenience just not that appealing.

But that's my own problem for what I consider fun.

And besides am I complaining? Like i said, simply offering my mindset. I still do it. I'm just voicing that it's interesting how the whole MMO genre is stuck in this mold.

For the better I guess since so many of you enjoy leveling.

And a the jab of being a "high ranked" player, i'd assume someone who has gone through it enough times would be quicker of getting tired of it.

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Originally posted by Ephimero

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Originally posted by markoraos

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Originally posted by Ephimero

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Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

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Originally posted by b00m85
 
You act as if leveling to 25 is a chore. It can be done within a beta weekend... sooo I am sorry you get to learn the game before PvP and consider this hard work to get where you want. =/

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No one learns how to PvP from PvE content.
25 levels IS a chore, if it's not the content I want to play. It's going to be even more of a chore each time I level an alt.

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So you're going to keep leveling alts in order to PvP? Sounds like a pro strategy. You might be able to get level 30 abyss boots in a character and level 30 abyss gloves in another!!!

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Well some people still have this outlandish notion that they play games for something other than hoarding gear or whatever "+xyz" or whatever. The oldest and the foggiest of those ancient grognards would even venture that games are for something called "fun". Yes, I know how crazy it sounds to the D&D/EQ/WoW generation, but there still are people out there remembering RPGs that didn't have any grind in them, and especially no level grind.
To MMO_doubter - leave them be mate.. you can't explain things to kids who think that D&D is the only RPG system ever made and that "RPG = game with levels". Don't bother, we lost the battle a long time ago, the bad guys won and maybe we should retire with dignity.

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I started in this genre with UO so cut the levels crap with me.
The "fun" term is completely subjective, and I'm one who thinks that things are funnier if a community is well stablished, any game that discourages altoholic behaviors is supporting this concept.
Why the fuck do you keep coming to already developed games to ask for insta gratification? that's something I can't understand.

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Eph, trying to reason with burned out WAR fanbois is a losing proposition. They spent months telling people who said their game sucked donkey balls that they were just "playing it wrong" or "L2P" or whatever lame thing, lol. That game crashed so hard its not funny and they kept defending it.

Now they are looking to slink out of WAR without admitting it failed, and want to take what they thought was good there and impose it onto every other game. "Why can't you have a Tome like WAR? Why can't you PvP from Lv1 like WAR. Why doesn't NCSoft listen to me when I cry like Mythic???"

You're beating your head into soft jelly there trying to talk reason to them. They just are buttsore from WAR is all, so AION (or any other game) gets the grief.

Originally posted by popinjay

Where do these nonsense threads keep coming from?

What kind of games were people playing before that 19 hours is a "grind"? Exactly what type of game are these people looking for... kill 10 mobs/do five quests advance a level? It's 19 hours. That's four gaming sessions for most gamers. This is like A.D.D. Central High or something.

 

 

If you play any MMO for the average (which in the past would have been about six months), that's a total of somewhere around 720 hours if you play four hours a day. (and most of you DO play four hours a day or more probably). That's in six months time.

 

Now, take 19hours to finish the last level and scale it into that. Know how much time it takes you to finish the last level?

 

 

 

 

3% of your time in six months. That's it. Who doesn't have sense enough to realize that's a tiny amount of time? Anyways, what ever happened to just enjoying the game and leveling up with other people? You get experience points from PvPing in this game, so why not just go PvP for the last level? What's the rush?

 

 

 

Because we all know that in a couple of months, these same people who start threads like this will say the game had "no content" and was "too quick/easy to level", then they'll go onto another game and cry about.

 

 

Seriously people need to get a grip on how much time you actually spend overall if it really is "nineteen hours". That's nothing at all. What are they expecting? Last level done in 20 minutes?

This has been a moment of true MMO genius....

Unfortunately it will be lost on these plebs who dont realize19 hours is a joke, if he came and said, it toook 2 weeks to make a level, id say, wow that is some grind, 19 hours is  a day for the hardcore, 2 sessions for  for me, and maybe 3 to 5 gaming sessions for the casual, and seeing how the max level is 50 right now, that seems more then reasonable.

wow OP, grow up and stop teh QQ

I'm glad this game has a grind. Its a bout time a game goes back to more of the old way instead of allownig you to hit max level in a week or two.

Keeps the kiddies and the cry babies out.

Originally posted by //\\//\\oo

That's right folks: The last 10 levels or so are what you would have found in Lineage 2.

Ironically, the first 20 lvls aren't that hard to obtain; maybe something along the lines of getting level 25-30 of WoW (depending on your class), but then it transforms from something slightly more grindy than WoW to an L2-esque grind.

www.aionsource.com/forum/general-discussion/32477-i-need-grind-19-hours-level-44-45-_.html

I thought I had researched this game sufficiently and I even played closed beta, but due to the level cap (30), I never could find out what exactly the last few levels are all about. Now, there is definitely a grind in WoW for the last 10 levels if you will it to be and refuse to quest, but there are more quests that are available (by far) than need to be done to actually hit 80.

One of the reasons WoW was one of the few games where I could hit max level was due to the reliance on quests for advancement and not grinding: I completely lost the capability to grind after having leveled a druid bear in Diablo 2 Hardcore up to 90's.

If there's one thing I can't stand now after having been spoiled by WoW, Age of Conan, EQ2, etc. it's having to kill the same monster over and over again for no lore reasons and with no variety; it's a perfect incentive to use a bot, or have somebody else play for you. What further compounds the issue is that PvP supposedly becomes more balanced at 50, so a taste of the end-game really can't be experienced until max level when the best equipment is finally available and the insane stigmas are accessible.

Even though I have experienced countless problems with gameguard, this is probably the one factor that is swaying me to cancel my preorder: If you are indeed a grinder, then I don't mean to disparage your preference, but I, personally, can't stand to grind.

 

 

 

http://www.aionsource.com/forum/chitchat/32477-i-need-grind-19-hours-level-44-45-_-2.html

Read the whole thread please instead of posting useless information. There is quests and there is elite mobs as you see from this reply:

"That is not true at all, u forget about Elites in pve dungeons like secret laboratory and many other dungeon lvl 45 where you have lot of campain quests + super extra good exp from elites (basically 7/8 x more exp than soloing even in a 6 man group)

IF you grind with a group in a pve dungeon with elites u can get to lvl 45 pretty fast."

You seem to want to spread some bad propaganda against Aion without no apparent reason, that thread is full of interesting replies about how the OP is not correct, but you only read what the OP wrote and made up your mind right? Always look at both arguments before making a decision.

Considering you are also commenting about an outdated version of Aion, since the 1.5 version will be on release, making all this premature and unfounded "conclusions" is quite unnecessary and hardly consistent.

19 hrs eh? Thats good, if it was 19.5 I would have to resub to WOW. But 19?  My doctor says that's still within the limits.

Soo how much time left?

BOOHOO 19 hours to grind one level, like thats anything to QQ about.

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Originally posted by Richijefe

 
http://www.aionsource.com/forum/chitchat/32477-i-need-grind-19-hours-level-44-45-_-2.html
 
Read the whole thread please instead of posting useless information. There is quests and there is elite mobs as you see from this reply:
"That is not true at all, u forget about Elites in pve dungeons like secret laboratory and many other dungeon lvl 45 where you have lot of campain quests + super extra good exp from elites (basically 7/8 x more exp than soloing even in a 6 man group)
IF you grind with a group in a pve dungeon with elites u can get to lvl 45 pretty fast."
 
You seem to want to spread some bad propaganda against Aion without no apparent reason, that thread is full of interesting replies about how the OP is not correct, but you only read what the OP wrote and made up your mind right? Always look at both arguments before making a decision.
 
Considering you are also commenting about an outdated version of Aion, since the 1.5 version will be on release, making all this premature and unfounded "conclusions" is quite unnecessary and hardly consistent.
 

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I'll say it again.. one thing AION players have to realize is that it's not the WOW people who are complaining because they see this same type of thing in WoW (PvE grinding). It's these QQ ex-Warhammer players who got so pissed at their "awesome game" and finally gave up. They want to bring things from there and stick into here, which is basically grown men wishing, lol. Go look at their forums... it's a ghost town so they come here.

Their main argument is "I want to PvP from Level 1, and because I can't do that a lot of other things about AION sucks." Even though they could PvP from Lev1 in WAR, Mythic "made" them grind the PvE in dungeons at top level like Bastion Stairs over/over/over and they are burnt out of PvE. Then when they finally went to PvP, it's like 1 hour a day because of population problems. They simply didn't get enough from their last girlfriend, so they want their new one to be all that and more.

A lot of the 1.5 updates are catered for quest, instances, and missions for peple 40+ to do and there are a lot of quest around. I will tell you that it won't be so easy, (of course it won't be easy) to burn a level 1-2 days, but when you are that high sometimes that's what you expect, but I don't expect to be grinding 24/7 for the level.

Originally posted by //\\//\\oo

That's right folks: The last 10 levels or so are what you would have found in Lineage 2.

Ironically, the first 20 lvls aren't that hard to obtain; maybe something along the lines of getting level 25-30 of WoW (depending on your class), but then it transforms from something slightly more grindy than WoW to an L2-esque grind.

www.aionsource.com/forum/general-discussion/32477-i-need-grind-19-hours-level-44-45-_.html

I thought I had researched this game sufficiently and I even played closed beta, but due to the level cap (30), I never could find out what exactly the last few levels are all about. Now, there is definitely a grind in WoW for the last 10 levels if you will it to be and refuse to quest, but there are more quests that are available (by far) than need to be done to actually hit 80.

One of the reasons WoW was one of the few games where I could hit max level was due to the reliance on quests for advancement and not grinding: I completely lost the capability to grind after having leveled a druid bear in Diablo 2 Hardcore up to 90's.

If there's one thing I can't stand now after having been spoiled by WoW, Age of Conan, EQ2, etc. it's having to kill the same monster over and over again for no lore reasons and with no variety; it's a perfect incentive to use a bot, or have somebody else play for you. What further compounds the issue is that PvP supposedly becomes more balanced at 50, so a taste of the end-game really can't be experienced until max level when the best equipment is finally available and the insane stigmas are accessible.

Even though I have experienced countless problems with gameguard, this is probably the one factor that is swaying me to cancel my preorder: If you are indeed a grinder, then I don't mean to disparage your preference, but I, personally, can't stand to grind.

 

 

 

So maybe put less emphasis/importance on "reaching level cap" and spend more time enjoying the journey...do other things... explore more, PvP more, craft more, etc. etc. so that "how long it takes to get to level cap" isn't an issue.

This is one of the key reasons newer MMOs are becoming faster and easier... People are becoming so impatient and so frigging single-mindedly focused on "getting to level cap as fast as possible" that no one will ever be satisfied no matter what happens.

It took me a *long* time to get my first job to 75 in FFXI... many times longer than many others require. Why? Because my focus wasn't on leveling to end-game, but on enjoying the journey, doing different activities, etc. How long it took me to get to level cap was never a "problem" because it was never a "focus".

In Lineage 2, it took me forever to get to 70 - nevermind 75.. I'll likely never see 85. Not because I'm "against the grind to get there", but because it's simply not that big a deal to me. I enjoy grouping up with friends to grind away in catas, or do Rift runs or help with fort, clan-hall or castle sieges... I enjoy doing raid boss runs. I enjoy other elements of the gameplay so how long it takes me to get to level cap - or if I even do - is not a big deal... because it's not a "focus".

It's taken me way longer to get to level cap in WoW than it would take most players... for all the same types of reasons as above.

My point is, the time it takes to get to level cap is only a problem if  you make it one (you in general, not specifically). You make it one by making "getting to level cap as quickly as possible" a top priority.

It's not a "flaw in game design" it's a bi-product of an individual's preferred playstyle clashing with the game's design.

As long as people continue to place "reaching level cap as fast as possible" as their top, if not only, goal... then no new MMO to come out that involves leveling of any kind will ever be "fast enough".

Just slow down, take your time, enjoy the game as a whole - not only the "grind to level cap" part of it - and I think you'll find how long it takes isn't even a concern.




 

NO I WANT LVL 50 NOW!!!  I DONT WANNA HAVE TO DO ANYTHING I WANT MY LVL 50 NOW!!! SO I CAN DO EVERYTHING ELSE  AND GET BORED FAST I WANT IT NOWWWW

As long as there is plenty of grouping for that I won't mind at all....  I just get bored to death soloing quests. That  was my problem with WoW I was trying to play catch up with my cousins and nobody wanted to group that much in game save for the dungeon runs that people race through. So I got so bored by the time I got to 50 I couln't bare to login.

I played FFXI and mostly was grinding mobs in groups and did quests here and there and i played that game for 3 years. Never made it to max and had 4 jobs at 50 and the game was still fun.  Grouping is a big must for me in games i guess because no other game has come close to keeping me playing for that long.

Originally posted by alkennjoi

wow OP, grow up and stop teh QQ

  This about sums up Aion's community. Anybody else see the irony?

Originally posted by //\\//\\oo

Originally posted by alkennjoi

wow OP, grow up and stop teh QQ

 

  This about sums up Aion's community. Anybody else see the irony?

 

 

Ahhh...

So the whole reason you started this topic was to troll.... m'kay.

Originally posted by JonMichael

 

 

 

Ahhh...

So the whole reason you started this topic was to troll.... m'kay.

 

 ... Well, you're either trolling yourself, or you're not the sharpest tool in the shed. I'm putting you on ignore in either case.

Originally posted by popinjay

Their main argument is "I want to PvP from Level 1, and because I can't do that a lot of other things about AION sucks." Even though they could PvP from Lev1 in WAR, Mythic "made" them grind the PvE in dungeons at top level like Bastion Stairs over/over/over and they are burnt out of PvE. Then when they finally went to PvP, it's like 1 hour a day because of population problems. They simply didn't get enough from their last girlfriend, so they want their new one to be all that and more.

I dunno if this is aimed at me since I claimed it would be nice if you could PVP earlier. Clearly I have never said AION sucks or anything among those lines or have claimed that I will not play it.

Also if you want to talk about WAR at least know what you're talking about. Bastion Stairs wasn't a really big deal, it was super easy. You don't even need to do Bastion Stairs or anything of that nature as there is equivalent gear from PVP. WAR failed due to poorly implemented end game pvp and among many other reasons. Population problems occured when people realized you can just farm keeps for points.

Moo,

  I understand where you coming from, especially if WoW or simmilar MMO's were your only experiance. However what most people here are saying is true, 19 hours for 1 level is not un-heard of. In fact its a great return to quality gaming IMHO. WoW tainted the MMO world with its ease in doing everything. Now im not saying WOW is bad, because its great for what it does, and thats only PVE. I dont consider wow pvp worthwhile or fun even in the slightest. The mechanics do not work at all, if you say otherwise im glad you enjoy the game but for me, no way.

 Aion is a good change back to old school gameplay, where difficulty tends to push us more back to grouping. As for other people stating that 1 - 20 to wait for pvp is rediculous, I say no it isnt. How many people play a character till 80 in WOW and they still have no clue as to how to use their character to their max potential? How many instance runs have people wiped or raids because of players like this? No offense, but gamers should understand the gameplay first and how their class works before they are shown certain content.

No offense but IMHO I dont need a bunch of level 1's running around spamming 1 skill in pvp without much organization. That for me isnt fun, Aion is bringing most gamers back to their roots with emphasizing on the journey and not the instant gratification of making everything oversimplified and easy. If you want an easier game try something else. By the way, that link you posted Moo is not based on the 1.5 client. Dont automatically take any post as fact especially in forums.

Originally posted by markoraos

Originally posted by patrikd23

Originally posted by //\\//\\oo

That's right folks: The last 10 levels or so are what you would have found in Lineage 2.

Ironically, the first 20 lvls aren't that hard to obtain; maybe something along the lines of getting level 25-30 of WoW (depending on your class), but then it transforms from something slightly more grindy than WoW to an L2-esque grind.

www.aionsource.com/forum/general-discussion/32477-i-need-grind-19-hours-level-44-45-_.html

I thought I had researched this game sufficiently and I even played closed beta, but due to the level cap (30), I never could find out what exactly the last few levels are all about. Now, there is definitely a grind in WoW for the last 10 levels if you will it to be and refuse to quest, but there are more quests that are available (by far) than need to be done to actually hit 80.

One of the reasons WoW was one of the few games where I could hit max level was due to the reliance on quests for advancement and not grinding: I completely lost the capability to grind after having leveled a druid bear in Diablo 2 Hardcore up to 90's.

If there's one thing I can't stand now after having been spoiled by WoW, Age of Conan, EQ2, etc. it's having to kill the same monster over and over again for no lore reasons and with no variety; it's a perfect incentive to use a bot, or have somebody else play for you. What further compounds the issue is that PvP supposedly becomes more balanced at 50, so a taste of the end-game really can't be experienced until max level when the best equipment is finally available and the insane stigmas are accessible.

Even though I have experienced countless problems with gameguard, this is probably the one factor that is swaying me to cancel my preorder: If you are indeed a grinder, then I don't mean to disparage your preference, but I, personally, can't stand to grind.

 

 

 

 

Yeah why cant we just be max level when we login for the first time in the game...*sign*

And also I want the best gear as soon as I login for the first time also, or I am not playing. Who want to even make an effort for something, I want everything as soon as I login for the first time! :)

 

Well that's pretty much what Guild Wars had. You can level to max in under a day and you can even create a max level char from scratch. And yes it was a great success and yes, people did have a reason to play after "hitting the max" and yes they did keep buying the expansions and I'm sure they would have even happily subbed with free expansions even if there was no damned level grind. After what Guild Wars so clearly demonstrated there is no possible justification for level grinds and despicable "the game begins at endgame" and "you have to earn the right to have fun" crap in mmos.

See this is where personal preference and playstyle comes in. *You* see it as "having to earn the right to have fun". What you see as the "earning" part, others see as entertaining. Different people find different things entertaining... Logic would dictate that you look for games that provide the gameplay you're looking for in the format you're looking for.

Guild Wars did prove that a setup like that could work if done well. However, not everyone likes GW's setup and prefer the way other MMOs are. So perhaps the demand should be for more new MMOs to come out following a similar format to GW, to co-exist along side those setup the way Aion or Lineage 2 or WAR, or whatever, are.

This idea of "GW's setup proves that other MMO's are flawed if they aren't set up the same" is a very narrow-minded and, frankly, self-serving argument to make. GW's setup works for *you* and others who think like you... It doesn't work for everyone. I actually prefer a game with a longer, slower journey to end-game/level-cap. The longer and slower the better - as long as there's enough to do to keep me entertained and occupied - and most MMOs I've played have accomplished this for me - I'll have a ball. 

Though I tried to get into it multiple times, I just couldn't enjoy GW for long because I don't like its pacing, or that the journey is so short. That doesn't mean "Guild Wars is flawed"... It just means it doesn't complement my preferred playstyle.



 

Originally posted by b00m85

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by b00m85

Do you not find any fun in experiencing a new game, and venturing out into a new world? Honestly the first 20 levels is just fun to LEARN the game and your character.

For many, yes, but I think 20 levels is a long time to learn an MMO. Some play for the journey, and some play for the destination. Especially if they have done the trip before (playing an alt). Aion has two player races and two starting areas? Sounds like a royal pain to level alts. Very boring.

I am not opposed to OPTIONAL grind, so that people who like it can do it, but I am opposed to ENFORCED grind. People who want to level by questing should be able to do it. People who want to grind mobs should be able to do it (and I've never heard of a game where THAT option wasn't available). People who want to level through PvP should be able to do it.

It seems like the grinders are oposed to freedom of playstyle choice.

 

For no game 20 lvls is to long to learn an MMO. In ALL MMOs you get new skills that you have never used before, quests that you have never seen, and areas you have never experienced. 20 levels is cake. Hell, even in WoW and WAR there was just so much more to do and learn after 20 levels.

I think we can all finally agree with you, that having the option to grind and/or quest to level is a good thing. Catering to both types of gamers is what the developers want, but this is not what the OP is about. We are simply just saying that 1.5 has just been released and there are more quests, raids, and ways to level than the beta.

Frankly, in a well-designed MMO, the player should always be learning something new or finding ways to improve... even at level cap.

If you've "learned the game" - as in "know everything you need to and have obtained every useful skill you'll ever need" - by level 20 and it's not level cap... then, to me, it's not a very well designed game.

I'm playing FFXI since it's NA PC launch.. I've gotten to 75 and have done much of the game's content. I'm still learning something new all the time.

Originally posted by markoraos

Originally posted by Ephimero

Originally posted by markoraos

Originally posted by Ephimero

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by b00m85

 

You act as if leveling to 25 is a chore. It can be done within a beta weekend... sooo I am sorry you get to learn the game before PvP and consider this hard work to get where you want. =/

No one learns how to PvP from PvE content.

25 levels IS a chore, if it's not the content I want to play. It's going to be even more of a chore each time I level an alt.

 

So you're going to keep leveling alts in order to PvP? Sounds like a pro strategy. You might be able to get level 30 abyss boots in a character and level 30 abyss gloves in another!!!

 

Well some people still have this outlandish notion that they play games for something other than hoarding gear or whatever "+xyz" or whatever. The oldest and the foggiest of those ancient grognards would even venture that games are for something called "fun". Yes, I know how crazy it sounds to the D&D/EQ/WoW generation, but there still are people out there remembering RPGs that didn't have any grind in them, and especially no level grind.

To MMO_doubter - leave them be mate.. you can't explain things to kids who think that D&D is the only RPG system ever made and that "RPG = game with levels". Don't bother, we lost the battle a long time ago, the bad guys won and maybe we should retire with dignity.

 

I started in this genre with UO so cut the levels crap with me.

The "fun" term is completely subjective, and I'm one who thinks that things are funnier if a community is well stablished, any game that discourages altoholic behaviors is supporting this concept.

Why the fuck do you keep coming to already developed games to ask for insta gratification? that's something I can't understand.

 

What sodding "instant gratification" are you talking about you anally fixated masochistic moron?

Go bang your head against a wall or something so you can feel "superior" or "uber" you managed to "endure it". WTF? When I buy a fucking product for a good amount of fucking hard cold cash I expect it to deliver from second 1. Anything else is just bollocks and bad entertainment product - it is a cheat, a con trick a snake oil.  It really is as simple as that and as long as there are ego-challenged insecure masochists like you around the EQ/WoW-crap is going to continue. Well sod off, I don't really care for this genre anymore since I see what the "projected target audience" is. If I buy a can od Cola I expect to drink fucking cola and not be forced to drink a nice warm cupppa of fresh cow piss... and than say "thank you for giving me an opportunity to prove my shaky manhood by drinking cow's piss, can I have my Cola now?" Thank you and good bye and enjoy wasting your life on proving how you're above "instant gratification". Lol, there's one born every minute ffs...

/add

Oh well, I'm going for a month on the beach with the babes and the booze so I might as well enjoy my ban. That was some gratifying insta-gratification. :)

Can I have your stuff?

19 hours to go from 44 to 45... seems normal, I remember classic WoW being like that early on to some degree and EQ as well. But let's talk about the grand-daddy of all leveling times... how long does it take to gain a level in FFXI towards the end game? Since 44-45 is like 54-55 in WoW/EQ and FFXI is like what--- 70s ish towards level max?

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by b00m85

 

You act as if leveling to 25 is a chore. It can be done within a beta weekend... sooo I am sorry you get to learn the game before PvP and consider this hard work to get where you want. =/

No one learns how to PvP from PvE content.

25 levels IS a chore, if it's not the content I want to play. It's going to be even more of a chore each time I level an alt.

Then maybe you're barking up the wrong tree looking into Aion or other similar MMOs?

I understand your desire to get to the stuff you enjoy more quickly, and I don't fault you for it. There are certain elements I prefer in a MMO, or any game, as well.

The difference I see here is that it seems counter-intuitive to me to look into a game that doesn't support or cater to my preferred playstyle and complain about it.  I simply look into other games 'til I find one that suits me.

There are people in this thread (and others; certainly for other MMOs as well) who seem to believe that if the game doesn't cater specifically to what they want, that it's flawed, the devs are clueless... and on and on. All I can say to that is... get over yourself. The gaming world doesn't revolve around any one player or what they want.