Before I start let me say first. I do not play WOW anymore. I played for the first 2 years of the game got my Prot Spec Warrior to level 60 and left the game just before TBC came out. I enjoyed the game greatly was in a good guild, but wanted to check out Vanguard which I did and stuck to it even though it had ALOT of issues I personally still liked it better than WOW... But that didnt make WOW a bad game.

However since that time when I left the game. I have seen several new games and tried several of them as well Some such as Warhammer claimed to be the next big thing... the WOW killer if you will.

Now the argument is that Aion might trump WOW. Well it might and it might not. Here are reasons WOW is as successful as it is.

1. It is very polished. regardless of what people who hate wow say they cant deny the fact the devs attention to detail is some of the best we have seen in any game.

2. It runs great even on low end computers. When Vanguard came out I went out and built me a new computer just to play the game.. Not everyone has the budget to do something like that. I know personally several people that wanted to play Vanguard when it came out but couldnt afford a machine to run it well to make it worth playing. What happened? They went back to WOW.

3. The game engine is stable and does not suffer from countless bugs. I personally believe there are better games out there than WOW or games that have more potential than WOW. HOWEVER most MMOs that launch these days are pushed out to early suffering from major engine stability issues or bugs. I use Vanguard as my example. Or hell even the last supposed WOW killer WAR which yes I did play up untill last month. WAR to this date still crashes constantly on many computers has graphics anomallies on a regular basis and has major lag in crowded areas even though the graphic polygon count is not really that high... WOW has a stable fairly bug ridden engine. (and yes I realize it has had its share of issues) but even at launch it ran fairly smooth in comparison to games being released today... You could also use AoC it had HUGE amounts of bugs at launch, and didnt recieve many of the fixes it needed untill recently.

4.I would say WOW is a casual game, but really maybe at lower levels it is but at higher levels it can be grindy just like any other game. However the lower levels are fairly casual. Casual enough to suck gamers in.

5. High amounts of Content. Granted alot has been added since launch. But even from the early days there was stuff to do. Or stuff that was challenging enough to keep people going. IE Molten Core. Which back in the day was a tough cookie to crack. But they also keep adding to that content.

Those to me are pretty much the top 5 reasons why WOW hasnt been killed yet. Or should I say is still the top dog. No game to date has had a launch that offered the combination of  Polish, stabiltiy of game engine, lack of major bugs, or sufficient content to keep players happy for long.

However I do see a game upcoming that might be able to knock WOW off that top dog tier. It might not. but it might, and I have to say that it is Aion. These are my reasons.

1. The game world is VERY polished. more so than WOW was at launch The attention to detail is just amazing

2.As amazing as the graphics are you really dont need a top end machine to run it.

3. The engine is amazingly stable the servers overall seem topnotch.  While the game does suffer from some bugs. Its not bug ridden like Vanguard, WAR or AoC was when they launched.

4. The game while it does take longer to level than WOW... its still a fairly decent pace.. It does slow down somewhat in the higher levels but its fast enough in the lower levels to suck people in.

5.The game has not only a high amount of content for a game at launch but also has a PVP experiance that is far superior to what WOW offers.

Like I stated before I dont hate wow.. I actually enjoyed the game and saw many of the positives of the game while I played. Sure I didnt care for the cartoonyness of the world but hey it was a good game. I think after playing Aion these last few months though. I have personally witnessed a game that has everything it will take to be able to compete with WOW... I have played Vanguard, WAR, and AoC and enjoyed my time in all of those games. However I never got the feeling that any of them would EVER compete with WOW due to the issues they all seemed to have and some still suffer from.

Aion though.. It just seems different. I realize WOW hasnt been killed yet. But Aion... Aion I think has a good chance of knocking it out of the number one spot. Even if it only does it for a limited time that will be an achievement none has been able to do.

Ohh one last thing.. One of the things that will keep players going back to WOW even if they believe they found a better game.. That is friends... With such a HUGE community. There will be some that simply dont wish to try a new game.. And many people will go back to be with those friends that just dont want to leave.

I disagree with a lot of things you just wrote. I don't have time to answer them all right now, but I'll be back :)

well its intresting to see what aion can do in europe/NA as remember it is an asian game and still retains element of asian game style which is not to many taste in the west .

But maybe as wow broke records in asia so can aion we will wait to see.many games have tried to take the number 1 slot from wow and failed maybe aion can be different!

For 1. 2. 3. 5.

Considering the budget Bliz is working with are you suprised?

For 4.

It is casual, i agree but veterans get bored and it doesnt matter how many people will sub in the future the game is going to be less and less casual since a) it will have to apeal MORE to a hardcore fanbase and b) the constant development and expansion will make it even harder for a casual and new player to enjoy early content.

As for AION i havnt played it and will not (the consept doesnt aply to me anymore) but as to it being the future wow killer is to be seen.

I like Aion. Aion is not a WOW killer. The Asian art i do not think hurts Aion if anything for me its very appealing. I think the problem is all the FTP crap with pretty Asian graphics has people fearful of the look.  

Why hasent UO, EQ, AC1, DAoC, AO been killed yet!!!!!!

because MMOs don;t die until the owners shut down the game.

WoW wont be killed anytime soon, tbh I hope it has a gloriously long life I need a game to keep you crazy guys busy I dont want you in my MMOs.

Originally posted by Kozom

For 1. 2. 3. 5.

Considering the budget Bliz is working with are you suprised?

For 4.

It is casual, i agree but veterans get bored and it doesnt matter how many people will sub in the future the game is going to be less and less casual since a) it will have to apeal MORE to a hardcore fanbase and b) the constant development and expansion will make it even harder for a casual and new player to enjoy early content.

As for AION i havnt played it and will not (the consept doesnt aply to me anymore) but as to it being the future wow killer is to be seen.

 

I don't know what you are smoking but the OPPOSITE is what is happening in WOW now. LOTLK makes raids casual enough so that you can PUG raids and more people can enjoy them.

Patch 3.2 is another casual oriented patch adding new 5-man content & many modes of difficulties in raid to get the casual into raids. In fact, Blizzard has stated again and again that their fan based is casual (i.e. few percentage do raid b4 WOTLK) and they are going to make content more assessible.

And I applaud them for doing so. Now I can have fun with some of the higher end content even when i am in a casual guild.

Originally posted by Kozom

For 1. 2. 3. 5.

Considering the budget Bliz is working with are you suprised?

For 4.

It is casual, i agree but veterans get bored and it doesnt matter how many people will sub in the future the game is going to be less and less casual since a) it will have to apeal MORE to a hardcore fanbase and b) the constant development and expansion will make it even harder for a casual and new player to enjoy early content.

As for AION i havnt played it and will not (the consept doesnt aply to me anymore) but as to it being the future wow killer is to be seen.

 

I'm not sure where you are coming from with that logic. WOW has included casual content in all of its major releases. Even the most recent update has included a new five person dungeon which is easily accessible to the vast majority of their player base. They have also allowed all their heroic dungeons to drop upper tier tokens(Items used for gathering gear) that were previously only available in high end raiding.

Given what WoW has done, I'm going to have to disagree. A game can evolve just fine and still give to the casual gamer. And I would just like to clarify that casual =/= easy. A game can be challenging, but casual. Casual simply means that somebody can sit down, play for an hour or two, and log off feeling they accomplished something. And that's what WoW does, but that doesn't mean their game is easy. Tell the top tier arena gladiators and raiders that WoW is easy and I'm sure they'd have some disagreements with you.

WoW hasn't been killed due to the simple fact nothing better has come out since then.

WOW has not been killed due to the attachment people have from playing that game for long times. But also because it can be played on about every computer and still looks okay on low end rigs.

I mean the content, the polish, the what ever has taken time for blizzard to build, it's still funny people compare the state of wow today with new released MMO's, if people want to judge WOW and compare it to other new released games they should compare WOW's release state with new released MMORPG's and NOT how WOW is today as that has taken time.

If you don't need sleep you could play WOW, if you need some sleep play other game.

WOW has the highest overall quality that other game or company will never able to compete with.

Blizzard is not like Microsoft so you would have more choice but your choice or the other game marketing will not change WOW to be second best. 

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Kozom

For 1. 2. 3. 5.

Considering the budget Bliz is working with are you suprised?

For 4.

It is casual, i agree but veterans get bored and it doesnt matter how many people will sub in the future the game is going to be less and less casual since a) it will have to apeal MORE to a hardcore fanbase and b) the constant development and expansion will make it even harder for a casual and new player to enjoy early content.

As for AION i havnt played it and will not (the consept doesnt aply to me anymore) but as to it being the future wow killer is to be seen.

 

 

I don't know what you are smoking but the OPPOSITE is what is happening in WOW now. LOTLK makes raids casual enough so that you can PUG raids and more people can enjoy them.

Patch 3.2 is another casual oriented patch adding new 5-man content & many modes of difficulties in raid to get the casual into raids. In fact, Blizzard has stated again and again that their fan based is casual (i.e. few percentage do raid b4 WOTLK) and they are going to make content more assessible.

And I applaud them for doing so. Now I can have fun with some of the higher end content even when i am in a casual guild.

1) i am smoking Davidoff's 
 

2) i spoke of the casual and NEW player regarding early content not raids. If the level cap is raised more and more it will make it harder and harder for new players to fully enjoy the game.

3) I also spoke of the FUTURE as in 2010-2011 where we are going to have many good? mmos to choose from. Imo bliz will adress the hardcore crowd to keep a strong base. 

4) Its all about the loot. Fun in a raid is maybe for the first 4-5 times you raid a specific one but after you farm it for the 200th time well lets just say it takes more than a casual guild.

For WoW you forgot to factor in these two things:

• Continuation of an IP (Off the Best selling and polished strategy games)
• Expansion into Asia and other countries

(Yep I know Aion is Korean and will have to branch out in the opposite manner and is looking to do so)

Edit:  Should've put areas instead of countries...lol I know Asia is a continent...sleepy in writing this hehe

Someday I hope I can get a full night's rest when I know WoW is offically pronounced dead. For now,  I guess I'll keep tossing and turning every night waiting for that WoW killer so I can get some sleep. 

Originally posted by JGMIII

Why hasent UO, EQ, AC1, DAoC, AO been killed yet!!!!!!

because MMOs don;t die until the owners shut down the game.

WoW wont be killed anytime soon, tbh I hope it has a gloriously long life I need a game to keep you crazy guys busy I dont want you in my MMOs.

Just what is that supposed to mean?? that only kids play WOW?? christ wise up, there are probably more respectible adults, decent people and great gamers playing wow than all the other MMOs put together, in all my years playing it i have a grand total of "0" on my block list and have met nothing but great people on it someof whom im now good friends with, sure there are kids & assholes but at least very few elitist arseholes...

Originally posted by ghostinfinit

Someday I hope I can get a full night's rest when I know WoW is offically pronounced dead. For now,  I guess I'll keep tossing and turning every night waiting for that WoW killer so I can get some sleep. 

you may get used to your tossing and turning while playing your sub 50k mmo, but sure that wow killer is just around the corner... its called WOW2.0

WOW is killing itself.  They claim that they have 12 million subs but if you check the records WOW's subs are currently at 6 million.  Basically in 2008 they had about 9 million active subs and now half way in 2009 it's at six million.  Why? 

Because when you dig through all the trash which intails noobs buying into the hype, fan boys building up the hype, the game is dying because it's gettin played out.  There hasn't been any drastic expansion updates since BC, and wrath is a joke.  Okay, level cap 80, and one  new playable class? LOLZ, come on. Wrath doesn't even have a decent selection of armor from 70-80, Your only selection of different lookin armor is limited to about three, weapons are like four or five. if this wasn't wow there would be crowds weidling pitch forks at blizz con.

Patch 3.2 will not save this game and the only thing that might revive wow if they add more playable classes. 

I won't touch that game after three 80s.  Because let's face it, tthis game's pvp is not my cup of tea. And I refuse going to pay a monthly fee to raid 2 days and then spend the rest of the week twidling my thumbs, sorry.

Originally posted by Reion1

WOW is killing itself.  They claim that they have 12 million subs but if you check the records WOW's subs are currently at 6 million.  Basically in 2008 they had about 9 million active subs and now half way in 2009 it's at six million.  Why? 

 

Are there official records then? and could you link to them?

Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by Reion1

WOW is killing itself.  They claim that they have 12 million subs but if you check the records WOW's subs are currently at 6 million.  Basically in 2008 they had about 9 million active subs and now half way in 2009 it's at six million.  Why?

Where are you getting these numbers?  What records are you checking for that data?

How can one kill that which is unkillable in the first place WoW will last another 10+ years with how easy it is.

Wow will never die because 95% of the population is a twit

Originally posted by Reion1

WOW is killing itself.  They claim that they have 12 million subs but if you check the records WOW's subs are currently at 6 million.  Basically in 2008 they had about 9 million active subs and now half way in 2009 it's at six million.  Why? 

 

Because when you dig through all the trash which intails noobs buying into the hype, fan boys building up the hype, the game is dying because it's gettin played out.  There hasn't been any drastic expansion updates since BC, and wrath is a joke.  Okay, level cap 80, and one  new playable class? LOLZ, come on. Wrath doesn't even have a decent selection of armor from 70-80, Your only selection of different lookin armor is limited to about three, weapons are like four or five. if this wasn't wow there would be crowds weidling pitch forks at blizz con.

 

Patch 3.2 will not save this game and the only thing that might revive wow if they add more playable classes. 

 

I won't touch that game after three 80s.  Because let's face it, tthis game's pvp is not my cup of tea. And I refuse going to pay a monthly fee to raid 2 days and then spend the rest of the week twidling my thumbs, sorry.

Im  starting to sound like a rabid fanboy here ffs and i dont even play the bloody thing anymore... a game dropping down to 6mil subs is hardly freaking dying!!!!??? thats still more than all the other mmos combined!, the only ones who know the exact figures are Blizz and no one else. 

A game as bloody gigantic as wow does not die and no game coming out now, soon or in the next few years save that mmo from Blizz or  WOW2 has any hope of competing against it, what is so hard to accept about the fact that wow is here to stay for a long time to come and will remain no.1 for the same time, it has seen AOC, Vanguard, LOTR, WAR all come out with the same OMG WOW KILLERZZZZ that you muppets keep spouting and guess what... yeah, you already know the bloody answer

 Its the sad truth WoW is probably never going to die. The honest reason behind this is because if even the most perfect game came out that could in theory kill WoW. All of the hardcore players(which is a majoirty of WoW players) have devoted to much of their wasted lives to quit. And as long as people still play it it will never die.

Ok I want to say... The reason I used the term KILLED is because everyone keeps referring to the new game as the WOW killer...I dont see WOW personally ending for a LONG LONG time.. There will be people playing for YEARS to come... Heck EQ1 still has more players than EQ2 (EQ2 sucked IMHO, even though I loved EQ1)

What I am getting at is this.. Out of all the games that have come out since WOW was released at least that I have personally experianced. Only one really to date i think has a chance of even coming close to WOWs subscription base or maybe even surpassing it (even if only for a limited time as many I am sure will go back to WOW) and that game is Aion... No Im not a Aion fanboy by any stretch of the means. But from what I have seen as to date coming from a beta. The game has an amazing amount of Polish. Is probably the most stable game I have ever seen in a beta.. More stable than WOW was at release. Doesnt require a super computer to run on like Vanguard did. Is fairly bug free even though there are a few. The game is just where it needs to be to actually capture people. Not to mention the graphics are amazing  even though stylized graphics are always more of a personal preference.

Aion also seems to have done an amazing job with their PVPVE its like RVR on sterioids with great PVE thrown in and amazing skirmish battles. Even though PVP does not appeal to everyone.

I have enjoyed a great many games including WOW.. and I am writing this from a perspective unlike most who attempt to bash the game. However I feel Aion has  very good chance of giving a WOW a run for its money unlike any other game to date post WOW release... and I have played several and have never stated that even when many others have. This is coming from personal gaming experiance.

I also realize I could be wrong in my assumptions.

Originally posted by sairusco

Originally posted by Reion1

WOW is killing itself.  They claim that they have 12 million subs but if you check the records WOW's subs are currently at 6 million.  Basically in 2008 they had about 9 million active subs and now half way in 2009 it's at six million.  Why? 

 

Are there official records then? and could you link to them?

 

Thanks in advance.

I guess you missed the current situation Blizzard finds itself. Roughly half of the playerbase plays in asia. This year Blizzard has been changing the chinese partner and thus WoW China was Offline.

The given numbers are to some degree accurate.