What I really would like to see in a new MMO is a more complex crafting system. It looks like most new MMOs kind of just add the simple click/create system. You basically just gather or buy the needed ingredients, and ones you have those, you can make the item, usually always with the same result. One MMO that did do this right, IMHO, was Star Wars Galaxies. The crafting system in that was a lot more complex. First you had to locate the needed resource with a device, then place a harvester to extract the resources from the location. And there were varying percentages of the resources in the area, so if you got to the location first, you could get a prime spot for your harvester and thus extract more of the resource. These resources shifted every couple of days/weeks, so you would have to pack up your harvester and start over.

Then there were different grades of the same type of resource. So you could have a steel X, and steel Y and they'd have different stats. They could both be used in the crafting process, but the final product's quality would be based on the stats of the inserted ingredients.

Then there were rare ingredients that dropped from killing certain mobs, that would make the crafted item even better.

With this kind of complexer crafting, you'd get vertain people that were famous on your server because they were able to make the best items. And the crafter could even name the item him/herself.

I know this sounds like I should go back to SWG, and I have been (more then once), but that game has died. And with the new SWTOR coming up, SOE will probably loose it's Star Wars license, and will have to shut the game down.

So, if you know of any new MMO that has a more complex crafting system, please let me know. I've tried a lot of them, but none of them were as satisfying as the old SWG was.

Mortal Online is probably the closest thing we have coming down the pipeline.

I'm in the same way of thinking as the OP, crafting is really dumbed down and practically pointless these days, SWG had the right idea of how to do it. I too have been through various MMO's and not found anythign to compete with SWG's crafting system, this saddens me as to me it was a whole new side of MMO's that didn't involve raiding or PvP'ing when there was nothing else to do.

Many people will say that crafting shouldn't be complex though and i can't understand why other than to say that those people prefer just throwing things together if/when they need/want something, thats fair enough but there are those of us that want complex so we have the OPTION of doing something we enjoy other than fighting.

In SWG i never had a crafting suit (clothes modded for my shipwrighting needs to boost my skills) and i only ever had above average to good resourses, but i still got sales as i filled the gap between novice and master tier components. thats another aspect of a complex crafting system, the games market of things. not everyone can afford to pay out for THE BEST on the server or want the junk people just throw together, complex crafting opens up all the avenues to a great game economy as prices are dependant of the quality of the finished product so everyone makes a profit no matter how good their components or items are.

I can't understand why it is that complex crafting isn't standard in MMO's these days as SWG's system should have set the way for the future of crafting in MMO's.

Ryzom might give you what you want.

You might want to have a look at an upcoming MMO I'm looking towards called Earthrise (No, not Fallen Earth). It aims to have a very detailed and developed crafting system. Some features are a completely player-run economy with only the most basic items available from vendors, everything else from crafting, unique harvesting methods, customizable items, varying quality and design uniqueness (depending on crafting skill, resource and component quality used, and crafter learned designs to customize), player and guild vendors. Just some of the things that should make crafting an exciting part of the game.

If you want to have a look at specifically the crafting portion of the game this FAQ section about crafting and the economy on the forums covers alot of what we know: forums.play-earthrise.com/index.php

For a more general understanding of the game the preview in my sig is great for getting to know about the overall game. Good luck on whatever you might find.

Well EvE has the best crafting by far, but if that game isn't your cup of tea i think Vanguard has decent crafting, haven't played too much myself so i can't really go into details, but since there is a free trial you can try it.

From what I have read it seems like Vanguard might also be a game you could check out for its crafting; that is, if you haven't tried it so far.

i bought vanguard a while ago after what some friends/guildies had told me, the crafting in it back then was still too simple, collect>create with only a small amount of varience and input during the process, no thought really needed in it.

I'd like to see a crafting system were you have to make the components then you assemble them into the final product. WoW's Engineering profession does that for quite a few of it's schematics but I'd like to see that for all professions.

I need to check out Earthrise, Fallen Earth looked interesting to start with but is falling short.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

Does anyone have a link to the crafting info for Mortal Online? I found the powerpoint presentation for it, but the info is still very vague. This game looks like it could be something new. Not sure about the first person view, but that worked fine for Oblivion and Fallout 3, so why wouldn't it for an MMO.

I had a look at Ryzom too, and I must say that the crafting in that game is a step in the right direction. It still doesn't go far enough, but at least the quality of the crafted item depends on the quality of the ingredients. And with the passive and active enchantments, item coloring and item appearance that changes with the quality of the item, this could be good.
I'll give the free trial a go.

While it delivers spectaculary on crafting itself, I think where Ryzom really shines is gathering which it's turned into a whole freaking game in it's own right with hazards, limited materials you can extract, limited timeframe, stanzas you formulate to improve your crafting efficiency, etc. If nothing else, at least it won't come down to "I click, I take stuff from loot window" because of the whole randomness, not to mention that you actually need to LOOK for high quality material, and it's usually not a simple case of finding a well hidden node.

I agree with you 100%.

SWG was for me as well the best game for crafting by far, and ive also been looking for a game that mirrors the crafting.

Ive played Vanguard and yes the crafting is ok , its not the best :(

Ive also played Eve and yes it has a nice crafting side, but to be able to build anything good you need to be in 0.0 space and to be able to afford the bpc. The trouble with Eve online is its full of players that like to pod you just cos they can ( in other words full of dickheads )

Please if you find a game with a good crafting side, please let us know :)

I'll have to agree with you on SWG as well.

The whole crating/trader/merchant  system was a game unto itself.

There are very few games that I have played where it was actually a career decision to become a crafter.

The only ones that come to mind are UO and SWG. But, there is a reason that those two games come to mind.

Anyway, from all that i can gather, Earthrise seems to have a complex crafting system.

But I think t is still to early to tell.

I agree whole heartedly.  I miss my master craftsmen from UO.

There has yet to be a better crafting system than the whole SWG.

Harvesting with seamless harvestors and needing other professions like scouts to get certain materials for you and needing smugglers to slice etc etc. The actual complex process of crafting with the tools and I loved how you could have your own vendors and place then in your house or guild mall. The icing ont he cake was the seamless player housing and player cities where people would come from far away to your shop and they could look at how you decorated your house. The items you've collected could also be displayed as like an achievement system of everything you've done on top of your badges.

Since nobody has mentioned it. I thought I should.

A Tale in The Desert

It's basically a game dedicated to crafting.

Eve would be great if there were resource qualities.  As such, the competition is only in your skill level and the amount you can pump out.  Anybody makes the same exact thing, just that some can make more of it and/or faster than others.

Certainly miss my pre-CU swg.  That's for sure.

I thought a crafting system where once you learned a blade style or pomel style or hilt style etc etc you could then combine them anyway you want would be really cool... Then as you gained mastery smithing levels you could put certain benifits with the weapon like Weighted or Balanced maybe with certain tiers or keen blades that help ignore some armor...

Make it where if you found a sword and smelted it down you could have a chance to learn the styles that were imbued into the sword... anyway just a thought. kinda tired sorry my post is bogged down with run ons. I have been driving all night.

Hmmm, it seems like most people who have played SWG, feel the same way. No better system like it. So why haven't game creator's picked up on this? Is it not 'mainstream' enough? Too hard to learn, so it scares people off? Because WoW is not using it? I don't know, but it does bug me. SWG was one of the first MMOs I've played (Eve was the first), and I have been disappointed with the crafting systems in all others (and there have been quite a few) even since.

The best thing ofcourse, would be for Bioware to incorporate something like it in SWTOR. But I'm afraid this will just be wishful thinking...

Crafting should, IMO be tied more to player skill than to character skill. 

The biggest problem I see with the crafting systems in games these days is the fact that people grind through equipment in order to reach the top tier.  This floods the market until you reach the top tier.  Making the artificial economy even worse.

Take making a sword:

First you need to heat the metal, if you don't heat it long enough, then its hard to work with.  Heat it too long, and its too soft to shape well.

Then you have to hit it and shape it.  Take too long, and it cools off.  Pound too hard/fast and you mis shape it.

The better the player is, the better the results he will have with his sword.  The best players make the best swords.

OP, I am with you 100%.  I think Ultima Online and SWG have had the best crafting systems IMO.  Like others have suggested, EvE has a good system, but the game is not for everyone.  Mortal Online will more than likely have something similar to UO.  I can't speak on VSoH because I haven't played it, but I have been told the crafting is good.  Goodluck.  Possibly SWTOR will have what we are all looking for in crafting, but I kinda doubt it seeing that they are taking a more story driven route.

agreed about SWG, though it still had some issues. like not being to find water when you were standing in a pond, and not being able to find sunlight for solar power.... and yet there wasn't a cloud in the sky heh. always thought they should have made certain resources static, like solar and water, but keep them low quality, and then being able to find rare high quality stuff as well, that was dynamic. loved the fact that it was important to find high quality resources to make the best stuff.

never got into EVE much myself, but the only other crafting i've found enjoyable to some extent, was EQ2. it actually helped to play the little mini game while crafting to make the best stuff.... and if you screwed up too much, it was possible to blow yourself up while crafting... i don't think there was any difference in resource quality, just that you had to play the mini game to make the best possible items. blew myself up making health pots once..... that was kind of ironic.