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8/03/09 3:37:03 PM#26
Originally posted by Faxxer
OMG, you believe ppl want this because Obama got elected... Maybe you missed the point of this thread....MISDIRECTION, DECIET. The American ppl WANT change alright, change from the status Quo, I know I do...I"m sick of the same old crap in Washington. But you are forgetting the point of this thread...to show that they won ON A LIE. They didn't show us the REAL agenda, only a packaged pretend utopian view... then they used their win, based on their LIES, to somehow justify that they have a mandate to push their agenda.. Buzz, you are smarter than this or you are one of the elitists who knew all along...which is it? Conservatives saw the truth all along too, which is why we got louder by the day...and still will be loud about this.
It's time to come clean, Obama has a plan and agenda that is not in the best interest of the majority of citizens. It is a plan to give more and more power to the government until there is no stopping it. The agenda is nothing short of an end to freedom. Freedom to choose a health coverage is JUST the first step, freedom to choose your automobile is just the first step, freedom to choose what bank to bank at is just the first step, freedom to set your fee for goods and services is just the first step... wait...we're several steps past the first step, and it's what we conservatives have been saying all along. Enough is enough. Time to take it up a notch.
Freedom to own guns...LIBS want to strip that right any chance they get!! Listen to what we want on the radio...FAIRNESS doctrine!!! Even the type of food we buy. Are we still elligable for Obamacare if you go to McDonalds every couple of weeks or drink a can of soda? Its all getting stripped away or at least there seems to be people out there doing everything possible to remove as much personal control as they can. WHY? How does removing our ability to make a decision help our quality of life? I understand that many people really are THAT stupid and can't make day to day decisions properly. But why do I have to suffer for THEIR stupidity? Will every news station and newspaper do a side by side comparison of OUR healthcare and what congress will get? Stick it all up there during primetime when most people are watching. Get it on every website. Would Washington do this on govt.org? Why NOT? WHat is there to hide? If the new system is so great, why wouldn't every govt official want the same thing as us? Its because it will SUCK and no one in their right mind or if they have a CHOICE will want to be on it. Thats why healthcare for washington is NOTHING even close to what we'll be getting. WHY? Why vote it down? Thats whats telling. If someone can just say without a doubt that the quality of care will remain stable, I'm all for it. I don't care who pays for what? I'm OK paying 10%. But if it will get worse for the majority to help the minority, how is that a step in the right direction? Obama screams Change. I now understand why he never said "Change for the better". Thats way he can say he never lied=) "Change we can beleive in!" Well, I guess we'll just have to be forced to beleive it, won't we? |
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8/03/09 3:37:17 PM#27
Originally posted by DailyBuzz
I'd imagine anyone who can afford private insurance would rather not wait 2 months for that procedure. Conversely, if you are currently uninsured and suffering from kidney stones, unable to afford any procedure at all, relief in 2 months probably sounds like a godsend.
Ever had a kidney stone? I havn't but my family who has would never want to wait 2 months to get it out. They said it hurt like hell. There is a reason people who can get private insurance. Its so they don't have to worry about fixing a problem as soon as it happens. Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time. If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD |
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8/03/09 3:38:39 PM#28
Originally posted by Faxxer
Taking away every American's right to choose his own plan is Tyranny alright, his post was DEADLY on topic. It's sad you can't see the bigger picture as we all can
Oh he knows I nailed him and his cohorts. He revealed that by once again resorting to personal attacks. |
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8/03/09 4:00:08 PM#29
Originally posted by Fishermage
Taking away every American's right to choose his own plan is Tyranny alright, his post was DEADLY on topic. It's sad you can't see the bigger picture as we all can
Oh he knows I nailed him and his cohorts. He revealed that by once again resorting to personal attacks.
You're just trying to bait me now. You haven't nailed anyone. You let out an extremist roar and I just wanted to point it out.
And proclaiming the left is out to destroy america is an attack I take personally. So who resorted to it first? |
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8/03/09 4:07:22 PM#30
Originally posted by Sabiancym
Oh he knows I nailed him and his cohorts. He revealed that by once again resorting to personal attacks.
You're just trying to bait me now. You haven't nailed anyone. You let out an extremist roar and I just wanted to point it out.
And proclaiming the left is out to destroy america is an attack I take personally. So who resorted to it first?
You are out to destroy America. It's not an attack at all. You have freely admitted that the Constitution is an outmoded document -- which means you want to destroy America. You have already admitted this. No attack at all. I am merely feeding your own words and concepts back to you, not attacking you. |
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8/03/09 4:19:56 PM#31
Originally posted by Fishermage
Oh he knows I nailed him and his cohorts. He revealed that by once again resorting to personal attacks.
You're just trying to bait me now. You haven't nailed anyone. You let out an extremist roar and I just wanted to point it out.
And proclaiming the left is out to destroy america is an attack I take personally. So who resorted to it first?
You are out to destroy America. It's not an attack at all. You have freely admitted that the Constitution is an outmoded document -- which means you want to destroy America. You have already admitted this. No attack at all. I am merely feeding your own words and concepts back to you, not attacking you.
You know what, fine. I am out to destroy America. Your America, and guess what, there are hundreds of millions of other Americans who want the exact same thing. I'm out to destroy American arrogance, greed, hatred, and dogma. So if that is your America, then yes I am out to destroy it.
I'm sure you'll tell me how I'm wrong, but frankly I do not care. There is not one single thing you can say to ever make me agree with you. Not because of your beliefs, but because of how you go about arguing them. Arrogant, condescending, and hyopcritical. You're side is losing. Fewer people are subscribing to your beliefs, and those that still do are getting old and will die off. Your world is about to be destroyed, and I for one cannot wait.
*I'm sure you'll quote this, and then sum it up in a completely different way like you always do.
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Dracus
 Novice Member
Joined: 7/14/04
"Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars." |
8/03/09 4:23:16 PM#32
Originally posted by DailyBuzz While that is true, that not having any insurance at least there something down the line. However, a full government system would cause nearly everyone to go through with this. Hence why there must be a private system remaining intact and can be competitive. And that is why... Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness. |
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8/03/09 4:30:40 PM#33
Originally posted by Sabiancym
You're just trying to bait me now. You haven't nailed anyone. You let out an extremist roar and I just wanted to point it out.
And proclaiming the left is out to destroy america is an attack I take personally. So who resorted to it first?
You are out to destroy America. It's not an attack at all. You have freely admitted that the Constitution is an outmoded document -- which means you want to destroy America. You have already admitted this. No attack at all. I am merely feeding your own words and concepts back to you, not attacking you.
You know what, fine. I am out to destroy America. Your America, and guess what, there are hundreds of millions of other Americans who want the exact same thing. I'm out to destroy American arrogance, greed, hatred, and dogma. So if that is your America, then yes I am out to destroy it.
I'm sure you'll tell me how I'm wrong, but frankly I do not care. There is not one single thing you can say to ever make me agree with you. Not because of your beliefs, but because of how you go about arguing them. Arrogant, condescending, and hyopcritical. You're side is losing. Fewer people are subscribing to your beliefs, and those that still do are getting old and will die off. Your world is about to be destroyed, and I for one cannot wait.
*I'm sure you'll quote this, and then sum it up in a completely different way like you always do.
Thank you for admitting that destruction of America is your goal, and the death of those who disagree with you is what you look forward to. I do not do this for YOU. I do this to reveal what your side really stands for, and you have shown it right here. Death. Destruction. The end of all. |
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8/03/09 4:32:44 PM#34
Originally posted by Dracus While that is true, that not having any insurance at least there something down the line. However, a full government system would cause nearly everyone to go through with this. Hence why there must be a private system remaining intact and can be competitive.
It seems that when someone suffers, their "answer" is to make ALL suffer. One does not end suffering by expanding and extending it to everyone. Thus we see the bankruptcy of leftist egalitarianism. |
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8/03/09 4:41:29 PM#35
Originally posted by Fishermage
You're just trying to bait me now. You haven't nailed anyone. You let out an extremist roar and I just wanted to point it out.
And proclaiming the left is out to destroy america is an attack I take personally. So who resorted to it first?
You are out to destroy America. It's not an attack at all. You have freely admitted that the Constitution is an outmoded document -- which means you want to destroy America. You have already admitted this. No attack at all. I am merely feeding your own words and concepts back to you, not attacking you.
You know what, fine. I am out to destroy America. Your America, and guess what, there are hundreds of millions of other Americans who want the exact same thing. I'm out to destroy American arrogance, greed, hatred, and dogma. So if that is your America, then yes I am out to destroy it.
I'm sure you'll tell me how I'm wrong, but frankly I do not care. There is not one single thing you can say to ever make me agree with you. Not because of your beliefs, but because of how you go about arguing them. Arrogant, condescending, and hyopcritical. You're side is losing. Fewer people are subscribing to your beliefs, and those that still do are getting old and will die off. Your world is about to be destroyed, and I for one cannot wait.
*I'm sure you'll quote this, and then sum it up in a completely different way like you always do.
Thank you for admitting that destruction of America is your goal, and the death of those who disagree with you is what you look forward to. I do not do this for YOU. I do this to reveal what your side really stands for, and you have shown it right here. Death. Destruction. The end of all.
And thankyou for completely ignoring my point and twisting it to fit your needs.
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Dracus
Novice Member
Joined: 7/14/04
"Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars." |
8/03/09 4:47:37 PM#36
Originally posted by Arndur I have at a young age, which is why I gave the example. I grew up from a poor family, single mother and three kids with no medical insurance or plan, other than MediCal and MediCare. For the time after wards, we had to wait for the government to approve of the operation. Couldn't go to school because every time I took a step with my left foot, there was a sense of pain. The operation fortunately only required a one night stay and a short recovery.
Now if the Federal Health Care Plan can be just as efficient the private system, that would be wonderful. Chances of that though are Slim to None, and I think Slim just left town. And that is why... Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness. |
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Dracus
Novice Member
Joined: 7/14/04
"Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars." |
8/03/09 5:09:29 PM#37
Originally posted by Fishermage Hah! You're statement is... no wait, will, yeah that's the word, will, be wrong when money is a thing of the past. When we become a Federated planet enjoying the luxury of replicator technology. Yeah that's the ticket. So there.
And that is why... Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness. |
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8/03/09 5:15:01 PM#38
Originally posted by Dracus Hah! You're statement is... no wait, will, yeah that's the word, will, be wrong when money is a thing of the past. When we become a Federated planet enjoying the luxury of replicator technology. Yeah that's the ticket. So there.
heheh. I do however believe that had the governments of the world not already stopped it, we would have long ago reached the "society of abundance" where it would cost pennies to feed everyone, and a few dollars to provide all the health care anyone needed to live for a century. Alas, the left (and certain luddites on the right) want things to be very, very different, and want to freeze elites where they are, make them constituents of government handouts and control, and stay in power forever. This makes growth occur at a fraction of the pace it could. |
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8/03/09 5:20:27 PM#39
Actually, the media is covering alot more important stories right now, like Michael Jackson's doctor coming out of his house, walking down the driveway, getting his newspaper, then returning to his house. It's like, The Michael Jackson Network still........will it ever end?
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Trizic
 Novice Member
Joined: 4/13/05
"They say there is no price on a human life. Bounties disprove this theory." |
8/03/09 5:41:16 PM#40
Originally posted by Fishermage
I fail to see how they lose any argument. There is no right or wrong really its just a difference of views. You value greed and selfishness well others value sharing and selflessness. "A stupid idea to you is the memory of a lifetime for me" |
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8/03/09 6:09:37 PM#41
Originally posted by Trizic
I fail to see how they lose any argument. There is no right or wrong really its just a difference of views. You value greed and selfishness well others value sharing and selflessness. Your statement refutes itself. You have just lost your own argument by making such a statement. However, I value love and freedom, in that order. Selfishness doesn't enter into it. See how wrong you can be? There certainly is a right or wrong. In your case, it begins with being wrong about me. |
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Faxxer
 Novice Member
Joined: 11/19/05
Star Wars Galaxies, R.I.P. NGE was your final death blow. |
Originally posted by Trizic
I fail to see how they lose any argument. There is no right or wrong really its just a difference of views. You value greed and selfishness well others value sharing and selflessness.
This is you buying the lie again. There is no sharing and selflessness of the left, it's a sham, a big FAT lie. it's about thinking how best to controll someone else's money and lives. period....it's about POWER. Liberals just dress it up and cry foul when someone conservative says "not with my money"
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8/03/09 6:17:53 PM#43
Originally posted by Faxxer
This is you buying the lie again. There is no sharing and selflessness of the left, it's a sham, a big FAT lie. it's about thinking how best to controll someone else's money and lives. period....it's about POWER. Liberals just dress it up and cry foul when someone conservative says "not with my money"
Plus I believe in sharing. Sharing is voluntarily giving part of your abundance to others. It is NOT using the government to forcibly take from one person and give it to another. That is simple theft, nothing more -- and I don't agree with that. Selflessness, well, if you mean having no self -- I am against that; but if you mean loving your neighbor, that is what I am doing every day I stand for liberty. |
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Narug
 Novice Member
Joined: 2/04/08
Not everything that is more difficult is more meritorious. - Saint Thomas Aquinas |
8/03/09 6:29:04 PM#44
I'd imagine the reasoning is correlated with the non-coverage of the tea parties. There are more people opposing them than they want known. Originally posted by Fishermage I'd add they also do that when: They mention editing of words down to a shorter span/suspect manipulation even though their leaders still said such words. They say government can make better decisions than the people who are really the bosses of it and are the ones who actually improve lives. "of the people, by the people, for the people" They cover a Left agenda and seek their army of reporters to destroy the other side. Sabiancym's comments are very telling. "The eternal difference between right and wrong does not fluctuate, it is immutable." — Patrick Henry |
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Narug
Novice Member
Joined: 2/04/08
Not everything that is more difficult is more meritorious. - Saint Thomas Aquinas |
8/03/09 6:31:51 PM#45
Originally posted by Dracus We have to remember though that 'Service Guarantees Citizenship' Obama Civilian Security Force and The Truth Squad Sorry I just had to add something funny against the leftist agenda. "The eternal difference between right and wrong does not fluctuate, it is immutable." — Patrick Henry |
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Narug
Novice Member
Joined: 2/04/08
Not everything that is more difficult is more meritorious. - Saint Thomas Aquinas |
8/03/09 6:40:24 PM#46
Originally posted by Trizic
It's actually such things like improvement and responsibility. People improve themselves through knowledge, technology, and personal initiative. Equalization attempts just take success away by spreading achievement instead of letting it spike like it should. Edit: Deleted second quote as only meant to highlight Trizic's initially. Edited doubled wording to make last sentence cleanly readable. "The eternal difference between right and wrong does not fluctuate, it is immutable." — Patrick Henry |
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8/03/09 8:15:34 PM#47
Some of you are just waaaay messed up I don't even want to think about it. |
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DailyBuzz
 Guide
Joined: 9/25/07
Hey guys, I broke this...anyone know how to fix it? |
8/03/09 8:40:00 PM#48
Originally posted by Faxxer No, I believe people want this because national polls indicate such. 72% of the nation wants a public option in the health care reform bill. I would prefer a single payer system, but that's not what is in this bill. The public option will be a first step. Maybe it works out great and maybe it doesn't. Regardless, these preliminary bills do not, in any way, constitute a government takeover of the health care industry. I know you want to skip that part and go straight to arguing about how bad the government will run the health care industry, but it's important to acknowledge the truth about what the bill does and what it doesn't do.
Where is the misdirection and deceit? Many democrats have said they favor a single payer system, it's not like they're trying to hide it. Obama has also specifically stated that he doesn't believe a single payer system would work well in this reform bill because of the base private system we've had for so long. The only misdirection is you trying to misconstrue what the reform bill actually does. It is not a single payer system, it is a public option (that the CBO says will hardly effect the availability of private insurance).
Conservatives, as always, see what they want to see. The reality is, their platform was flatly rejected in the past 2 elections. You can kick and scream about it all you want, but that's the facts. People want change and that's what they will get (in the form of a public option).
I'm not asking you to support liberal policies. I don't support conservative policies. I do confront conservative policies based on factual data, however, not conspiracies and drummed up jargon. Conservatives misrepresent the policy and then want to debate the misrepresentation.
It was funny when Anthony Weiner (D-NY) offered an amendment to repeal medicare. Not a single republican voted for it. Seems they aren't against government run health care after all, at least not when their feet are to the fire. Fact is, republicans love medicare nearly as much as they love stumping in opposition to a public option. Insurance companies don't want to cover the elderly anyway. What republicans don't love is a non-profit competing with their capitalist cohorts.
You're gonna lose this one. You should pick your next battle now and start preparing. Wait, never mind, you don't have any preparing to do, you just have to practice screaming "NO" and "socialist" while waiting for Luntz to draft his new memo. |
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DailyBuzz
Guide
Joined: 9/25/07
Hey guys, I broke this...anyone know how to fix it? |
8/03/09 8:42:57 PM#49
Originally posted by Dracus While that is true, that not having any insurance at least there something down the line. However, a full government system would cause nearly everyone to go through with this. Hence why there must be a private system remaining intact and can be competitive. Well, it's a good thing we aren't talking about a government run health care system.
Nope, instead we are talking about a public option, which the CBO says will work in harmony with private insurers. |
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8/03/09 8:58:40 PM#50
Originally posted by DailyBuzz Well, it's a good thing we aren't talking about a government run health care system.
Nope, instead we are talking about a public option, which the CBO says will work in harmony with private insurers.
The CBO didn't say that, and saying things like that isn't in the CBO's job description. The CBO just estimates how much it would cost, and it said it will cost a lot.
Besides, there is no way there can be harmony when one side is being subsidized by the governmemt. They are basically taking money away from those with private insurance against their will and giving it to the government program in order to drive any cost it would have to individuals down. There is no way the private sector can compete with that over the long haul. And once there are no more options, the quality of care will decline while advancements grind to a hault just like in every other country which has socialized it's health care.
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