Originally posted by Ionselon

They are probably the same people who beat up kids on the first day of school for their lunch money.  All the kids started at zero; there were just some who were better organized and better bullies.  LOL, sad.
 

 

They had a choice whether to go to that school, and knew lunch money would be at risk when they made their choice.

Sour grapes make the best whine.

Originally posted by Ionselon

It would be interesting to have someone from MMORPG.com comment on their decision to post this article.
 

Ok,, I'm here.

Not personally being  familiar with the ins and outs of Darkfall's rules, I honestly missed the fact that there was a possibility that the contents of this article described behavior that was not sanctioned by the developers. As you can imagine, it is difficult to be instantly aware of the specific rules in every game on our list.

Of course we don't want to promote cheating in games. Such things are a serious problem within the industry and can completely ruin the integrity and competitive spirit of these games.

As a result of the controversey surrounding the article, and wanting to be fair to both the article's author and to Aventurine and its players, I have emailed Tasos to simply ask the question of whether or not the activities described in the article are against the game's RoC.

If the aforementioned issues turn out to actually be against the rules we will, of course, remove the article from publication, take appropriate internal action and issue an apology and a correction.

Again, it is never our intent to promote activities thata re against a game's rulset. As you can imagine though, with a game as controversial as Darkfall as been, it is difficult to know what is and is not considered acceptable behavior b the game's developers.

Sorry for the confusion.

Jon Wood

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Ionselon

They are probably the same people who beat up kids on the first day of school for their lunch money.  All the kids started at zero; there were just some who were better organized and better bullies.  LOL, sad.
 

 

They had a choice whether to go to that school, and knew lunch money would be at risk when they made their choice.

Sour grapes make the best whine.

 

ROFL!!!
 

Dude, that is pathetic.

Thanks Jon.  I know the correct decision will be made.

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by Ionselon

It would be interesting to have someone from MMORPG.com comment on their decision to post this article.
 

Ok,, I'm here.

Not personally being  familiar with the ins and outs of Darkfall's rules, I honestly missed the fact that there was a possibility that the contents of this article described behavior that was not sanctioned by the developers. As you can imagine, it is difficult to be instantly aware of the specific rules in every game on our list.

Of course we don't want to promote cheating in games. Such things are a serious problem within the industry and can completely ruin the integrity and competitive spirit of these games.

As a result of the controversey surrounding the article, and wanting to be fair to both the article's author and to Aventuring and its players, I have emailed Tasos to simply ask the question of whether or not the activities described in the article are against the game's RoC.

If the aforementioned issues turn out to actually be against the rules we will, of course, remove the article from publication, take appropriate internal action and issue an apology and a correction.

Again, it is never our intent to promote activities thata re against a game's rulset. As you can imagine though, with a game as controversial as Darkfall as been, it is difficult to know what is and is not considered acceptable behavior b the game's developers.

Sorry for the confusion.

Jon Wood

 

Good to hear  =)

Originally posted by korvass

Blaming the designers for errors or omissions in their game design is fine. Darkfall doesn't sound like a game I would want to play. But as someone else said, taking responsibility for one's own actions is in real short supply these days. Simply just blaming the devs for loopholes, and doing things, 'just because you can' is one reason why RP-PVP servers don't work for crap. Most of the pvp has zero story involved, just people attacking others because they can.

As Chris Rock said, "You can drive a car with your feet; that don't make it a good f*ckin' idea!" - Same goes for 'bloodwalls'.

What - exactly - are "bloodwalls"?

PvP doesn't have a story, because characters in stories don't have free will. They do what the writer decides they do.

War is hell. Don't expect fair play in a war.

Im not sure which this article says more about,MMORPG.coms role as advertiser rather than consumer advocate, or the type of player in darkfall.

I do know this is a prime example of why games like this should exist.Remember without this game, these players would probably be playing in other games right now, Possibly with you.So,think of DF as the reform school of mmos....

L

O

L

!

My macro > your macro. LOL reading this makes me SO SO happy I quit DF- the only exciting part was waking up hoping they were too busy dealing with hackers to deal with the droves of macro'rs.

I'll admit I macro'd ALOT to keep up with everyone... and it seemed that that was everyone elses reason too... I wonder who the FIRST one was... hah or was there never a first... go go Stand Alone Complex =D. Sucking our own fun out of the game is pure win. But what's the alternative? Get crapped on by all the people who did... cause lets face it, to play DF you gotta be hardcore or a masochist. Apparently I wasn't enough of both to make it in the long haul! Hah

Another $50 saved and a smile on ma face!

Originally posted by Stradden

Aventuring

Really Stradden?

I guess this proves it isnt a paid for article. Atleast there's no D

Originally posted by warty

Originally posted by Stradden

Aventuring

 

Really Stradden?

I guess this proves it isnt a paid for article. Atleast there's no D

lol, ok, it was a pre-coffee typo. I'll fix that.

;)

Sorry just got off work and am being a pedant. BTW as a player, what the article suggests is not macroing (unless I missed it) but bloodwalling which is just not logging out. Its somewhat of a hard distinction as most wallers DO macro, but to bloodwall is not to macro in of itself. Nor is bloodwalling against any ToS or mechanics, wish as i do it did not happen!

Originally posted by tkobo

Im not sure which this article says more about,MMORPG.coms role as advertiser rather than consumer advocate, or the type of player in darkfall.

I do know this is a prime example of why games like this should exist.Remember without this game, these players would probably be playing in other games right now, Possibly with you.So,think of DF as the reform school of mmos....

I'm sure they would prefer to think of it as Salusia Secundous (sp?).

Originally posted by tkobo

I do know this is a prime example of why games like this should exist.Remember without this game, these players would probably be playing in other games right now, Possibly with you.So,think of DF as the reform school of mmos....

Exactly so.

This is the perfect kind of review for Darkfall because 10-15% of players wil go "this sounds like the best game ever" and 85-90% will go "this sounds like the worst game ever".

MMORPGs need two successful "clanbox" type games, one fantasy and one sci fi.

 "As a result of the controversey surrounding the article, and wanting to be fair to both the article's author and to Aventurine and its players, I have emailed Tasos to simply ask the question of whether or not the activities described in the article are against the game's RoC."

That made me chuckle, it will be interesting to see what the reply (if any is). Thier stance on this seemsto have changed somewhat over time  though there is a sort of tacit acceptance by the devs. A kind of OK if you don't get caught situation. Dont want to scare off the 'hardcore' macroing guilds but don't want to alienate those that want a level playing field.

Originally posted by warty

;)

 

Sorry just got off work and am being a pedant. BTW as a player, what the article suggests is not macroing (unless I missed it) but bloodwalling which is just not logging out. Its somewhat of a hard distinction as most wallers DO macro, but to bloodwall is not to macro in of itself. Nor is bloodwalling against any ToS or mechanics, wish as i do it did not happen!

The quotes below would seem to disagree with your assessment.

"Unattended macroing could get you kicked anywhere in the world depending on the situation. You engage in it at your own risk."
 

forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php

"Any macroing or disruptive skilling up within the protective radius of the towers is strictly forbidden. Offenders will be kicked. Repeat offenders will be banned.

Unattended macroing anywhere is forbidden. Offenders will be kicked. Repeat offenders will be banned."
 

forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php

"Macroing: We are working to address it at its source, but until then we need to enforce our policies. Before we do that we will appeal to players not actually playing the game to log off rather than leaving their character in-game. This will allow more people to be able to enjoy Darkfall instead of unmanned characters taking up server space. If you’re skilling up by not playing the game as it was intended, you will be kicked and repeated offenses will result in a ban. "
 

forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php

Not really sure how else you could interpret those quotes.  To say what the OP said they were doing in the article as anything other than "skilling up while not playing the game"... is dishonest at best. 

If the game is fun to play... play it.  Otherwise, you're just another bot program. 

Anyone who expects a level playing field in a FFA PvP game doesn't understand the terms.

I personally don't like FFA (among other aspects of this game), so I don't play this game.

 Wow so many negativew responses and the fact is you all are never going to find an MMo that suits to your carebear ways. Thats why you troll these forums day in and day out talking shit about anyone who DARES have fun in an mmo that you dislike. Ya good for you.

It seems none of you have posted in this post have played darkfall before. Bloodwalling is where people gather together to go afk that is all. Instead of logging out you go afk as when you get attacked your resists to damage increase and the people who are attacking you are not afk and gain skill ups as they need a target to attack.

Every guild in Darkfall does this it doesn't break any ToS. Their is nothing saying you can't go afk in large groups, if Aventurine wanted to fix this they would just put a auto-kick afk timer in the game.

I am not part of this guild and play on EU1, but no one seems to know what a blood wall is who is posting here.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Anyone who expects a level playing field in a FFA PvP game doesn't understand the terms.

 

Where does it state that the definition of 'FFA PvP'  includes cheating?

Link please?

I have always naively thought that it means no safe zones, open world inter player fighting with full loot rights? I had no idea it included exploiting, afk macroing, and hacking. That must be why I felt like I had toquit DF after 1 month... It must have been my issue right?

oh and thanks for the reply in this thread Stradden, it's nice to see someone taking any degree of ownership in this industry, no matter how small.

In regards to whether or not this article violates anything in terms of its content and cheating, I think it is safe.

The writer does not say whether or not any AFK macroing was used at the blood wall.  Unattended AFK macroing is supposed to be against their TOS despite how little it gets enforced.   There are a lot of people who go AFK on bloodwalls to be beat on by other players to raise their defense skill.  Standing AFK without any macro or key activity is not against the rules of the game by my understanding.

Do people macro at these walls?  Yes.   This writer however makes no admission to doing so.   This does shine a light on a very negative aspect of the game's mechanic, but unless the writer admits to unattended macroing, then I think it is technically safe.

Originally posted by Ionselon

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Ionselon

Originally posted by korvass

Originally posted by junzo316

Are we actually promoting an article on MMORPG that condones a bannable offense?  Ummmm, just wow.....

 

Gotta agree with the dude above.. Kudos to Syndicate's 'uberness', organisational skills are hard to come by. If this is the kind of gaming that makes them happy, great. But why the heck is this an article? The only thing I read there as being positive was the work that goes into organising stuff.

C'mon, editors, doesn't this whole piece really scrape the borders of integrity? MMORPG.com, while remaining neutral in all things, should surely be working toward promoting MMO gaming from a positive angle? This whole article just smacks of all the things already described in earlier responses. AFK 'bloodwalls'?!?! Seriously.. even I know what one of those is, and I'm a bleedin' roleplayer fer fug's sake!

Or is the highlighting of bloodwalls (skilling up your character by hitting afk guildmembers) some sort of journalistic strategy to turn people away from Darkfall? Ooohh.. conspiracies! /sarcasm

It would be interesting to have someone from MMORPG.com comment on their decision to post this article.
 

Why should they not post it? Journalism just reports what other people do, it does not condone it. Censored journalism is no way to fight cheating, it just hides the fact that it exists.

The writer didn't report what other people did.  He reported what he and his guild did.  This is not journalism, so don't try to hide behind that excuse.  It's nothing more than self-aggrandizing article about what he and his guild did.  Nothing more.
 

It is journalism from MMORPG.COMs part. They published an article of someone playing the game, that does not mean they condone it but rather describe a random player in the game.

If you have issues then take it with the author of the article and not MMORPG.COM.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Anyone who expects a level playing field in a FFA PvP game doesn't understand the terms.

I personally don't like FFA (among other aspects of this game), so I don't play this game.

Anyone who equates non-level playing fields in a FFA PvP game to cheating does not understand the terms.

FFA just means Free For All, meaning you are allowed to have 10 guys beating on one guy. It in no way or form implies that cheating is allowed.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Anyone who expects a level playing field in a FFA PvP game doesn't understand the terms.

I personally don't like FFA (among other aspects of this game), so I don't play this game.

You're reading comprehension skill must have a -1 debuff today.  I never said anything about a level playing field, I just wondered why anyone would brag about beating someone who did not have a chance of beating you.  Sure, it's not level, but it's also pointless.

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Ionselon

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Ionselon

Originally posted by korvass

Originally posted by junzo316

Are we actually promoting an article on MMORPG that condones a bannable offense?  Ummmm, just wow.....

 

Gotta agree with the dude above.. Kudos to Syndicate's 'uberness', organisational skills are hard to come by. If this is the kind of gaming that makes them happy, great. But why the heck is this an article? The only thing I read there as being positive was the work that goes into organising stuff.

C'mon, editors, doesn't this whole piece really scrape the borders of integrity? MMORPG.com, while remaining neutral in all things, should surely be working toward promoting MMO gaming from a positive angle? This whole article just smacks of all the things already described in earlier responses. AFK 'bloodwalls'?!?! Seriously.. even I know what one of those is, and I'm a bleedin' roleplayer fer fug's sake!

Or is the highlighting of bloodwalls (skilling up your character by hitting afk guildmembers) some sort of journalistic strategy to turn people away from Darkfall? Ooohh.. conspiracies! /sarcasm

It would be interesting to have someone from MMORPG.com comment on their decision to post this article.
 

Why should they not post it? Journalism just reports what other people do, it does not condone it. Censored journalism is no way to fight cheating, it just hides the fact that it exists.

The writer didn't report what other people did.  He reported what he and his guild did.  This is not journalism, so don't try to hide behind that excuse.  It's nothing more than self-aggrandizing article about what he and his guild did.  Nothing more.
 

It is journalism from MMORPG.COMs part. They published an article of someone playing the game, that does not mean they condone it but rather describe a random player in the game.

If you have issues then take it with the author of the article and not MMORPG.COM.

So, using your line of reasoning here, it would be ok if MMORPG.com published an article by someone on how to run your own private WoW server?  After all, it's only journalism, right?  And, after all, MMORPG.com doesn't condone it, so it's ok to publish it.  Right?  (Hint:  the US courts don't happen to agree with you; websites are responsible for the information they choose to publish)

Edit:  Better idea.  Publish an article on running a private server for DFO.  If it is coded as poorly as has been reported, it should be no problem to port over to a private server.  :)

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Anyone who expects a level playing field in a FFA PvP game doesn't understand the terms.

I personally don't like FFA (among other aspects of this game), so I don't play this game.

 

Anyone who equates non-level playing fields in a FFA PvP game to cheating does not understand the terms.

FFA just means Free For All, meaning you are allowed to have 10 guys beating on one guy. It in no way or form implies that cheating is allowed.

Agreed, and I have not condoned cheating. The game allows people to get skill points from attacking any player, even guild members. Bad programming, and it should be fixed.

People will use what is in the game to be successful. I do not use or approve of hacks or cheats or macroes. I don't even use combat addons in the games I play, as I prefer to play the game, rather than have the game play me.

It was my understanding the 'bloodwalling' was done after the city takeover which is what I was congratulating. It was the discipline and co-ordination I admire.

The developers do 'allow' it by letting it work in the game.