I think most people on this thread that would not play Aion because of Gameguard simply did not plan on playing even if Gameguard did not exist. 

Nice excuse though.

I would suggest some to re-read about Gameguard, rootkit, anti-virus, firewall, and how the internet is structured.  Saw alot of half-facts in the thread that is not entirely wrong, but also far from correct.

Originally posted by linren

I think most people on this thread that would not play Aion because of Gameguard simply did not plan on playing even if Gameguard did not exist. 

Nice excuse though.

I would suggest some to re-read about Gameguard, rootkit, anti-virus, firewall, and how the internet is structured.  Saw alot of half-facts in the thread that is not entirely wrong, but also far from correct.

oki you seem to have more knowledge on the game guard structure than most of us. can you explain how the installed device driver works and how it can be removed including all .dll's ?

Originally posted by linren

I think most people on this thread that would not play Aion because of Gameguard simply did not plan on playing even if Gameguard did not exist. 

Nice excuse though.

I would suggest some to re-read about Gameguard, rootkit, anti-virus, firewall, and how the internet is structured.  Saw alot of half-facts in the thread that is not entirely wrong, but also far from correct.

Yes i agree for the most part. Mostly  trolls are posting but there are a few people who truly believe that not only GG but any DRM is going to take control of there PC. Ive read that people who played Bioshock had massive damage to their PC due to Securerom but i have never seen such damage or know anyone personally who has. Do not underestimate the paranoia of some people.

I R HAVE AWEZOME MOUSE AND COMPUTA PARTZZ.  L2computer and troll.  My god gamers bitch over the stupidest shit.

Originally posted by linren

I think most people on this thread that would not play Aion because of Gameguard simply did not plan on playing even if Gameguard did not exist. 

Nice excuse though.

I would suggest some to re-read about Gameguard, rootkit, anti-virus, firewall, and how the internet is structured.  Saw alot of half-facts in the thread that is not entirely wrong, but also far from correct.

I think I agree with you.

When they added it to Lineage 2, all sorts of people quit. Then slowly started coming back. Oh sure, there are die hards who would never play a game that had it but i always find it amusing to see those who quit a game due to game guard come back.

Personally I've never had an issue with game guard. I also play games on a designated game computer. So if something happened, no biggie, I would just reinstall anything. As there is nothing of value or any sensitive nature on the computer then I don't worry about anyone finding out that I go to cnn all the time or that I frequent lol cats (disclaimer: I DON'T fequent lol cats!)

Originally posted by grandpagamer

Originally posted by linren

I think most people on this thread that would not play Aion because of Gameguard simply did not plan on playing even if Gameguard did not exist. 

Nice excuse though.

I would suggest some to re-read about Gameguard, rootkit, anti-virus, firewall, and how the internet is structured.  Saw alot of half-facts in the thread that is not entirely wrong, but also far from correct.

Yes i agree for the most part. Mostly  trolls are posting but there are a few people who truly believe that not only GG but any DRM is going to take control of there PC. Ive read that people who played Bioshock had massive damage to their PC due to Securerom but i have never seen such damage or know anyone personally who has. Do not underestimate the paranoia of some people.

hm this could be interpreted like:

1. you do not need kaspersky
2. or anything like a firewall
3. you do not need rootkit detection and removal aka blacklight or ...

because:

viruses, trojans, backdoors and rootkits are simply overrated :)

Clients of Korea China and Japan, they provide with nProtect Gameguard which doesn't have any ability to protect games from bots,lol.

May be it  will using nProtect in US and EU.

Originally posted by thanith

Originally posted by grandpagamer

Originally posted by linren

I think most people on this thread that would not play Aion because of Gameguard simply did not plan on playing even if Gameguard did not exist. 

Nice excuse though.

I would suggest some to re-read about Gameguard, rootkit, anti-virus, firewall, and how the internet is structured.  Saw alot of half-facts in the thread that is not entirely wrong, but also far from correct.

Yes i agree for the most part. Mostly  trolls are posting but there are a few people who truly believe that not only GG but any DRM is going to take control of there PC. Ive read that people who played Bioshock had massive damage to their PC due to Securerom but i have never seen such damage or know anyone personally who has. Do not underestimate the paranoia of some people.

 

hm this could be interpreted like:

1. you do not need kaspersky
2. or anything like a firewall
3. you do not need rootkit detection and removal aka blacklight or ...

because:

viruses, trojans, backdoors and rootkits are simply overrated :)

 

 

Im no techy but my friend is and she told me that the people having probems with DRM's were those trying to circumvent or remove them, that very well could be what your virus protection is doing with GG and therefor causing problems. I have a firewall and i have virus protection and ive never had any problems with any game DRM"s or with GG. Well at any rate its launch time so have fun on the forums.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Personally I've never had an issue with game guard.

How would you know? These things give themselves rights that even the administrator of the machine lacks. Who really knows what they get up to.

Originally posted by Kainis 

the only thing I have to do is "run as administrator" when loading Aion.

And that doesn't set any alarm bells ringing? Everyone bleats on about MS but there's only so much they can do when people are determined to help bypass the security on their own machines.

Originally posted by korat102

Originally posted by Kainis 

the only thing I have to do is "run as administrator" when loading Aion.

 

And that doesn't set any alarm bells ringing? Everyone bleats on about MS but there's only so much they can do when people are determined to help bypass the security on their own machines.

No, my friend. You are poorly informed. "Run as Administrator" is an option that only occurs in Windows Vista. The problem with Windows Vista is that most--- if not all programs, have to be "Run as Administrator". Microsoft overdid their security systems on Vista so that computer games require a Run as Administrator  manually enabled.

Originally posted by korat102

Originally posted by Kainis 

the only thing I have to do is "run as administrator" when loading Aion.

 

And that doesn't set any alarm bells ringing? Everyone bleats on about MS but there's only so much they can do when people are determined to help bypass the security on their own machines.

agreed, i like the statement:

"the only thing"

*laughs*

Originally posted by argos5

Originally posted by korat102

Originally posted by Kainis 

the only thing I have to do is "run as administrator" when loading Aion.

 

And that doesn't set any alarm bells ringing? Everyone bleats on about MS but there's only so much they can do when people are determined to help bypass the security on their own machines.

 

No, my friend. You are poorly informed. "Run as Administrator" is an option that only occurs in Windows Vista. The problem with Windows Vista is that most--- if not all programs, have to be "Run as Administrator". Microsoft overdid their security systems on Vista so that computer games require a Run as Administrator  manually enabled.

nonsense, i  play ryzom without admin privilidges.

nothing to adjust here.

should therefore be possible for every reasonable piece of software.

but tastes are different some guys like it to run everything under root *laugs*

Originally posted by thanith

Originally posted by argos5

Originally posted by korat102

Originally posted by Kainis 

the only thing I have to do is "run as administrator" when loading Aion.

 

And that doesn't set any alarm bells ringing? Everyone bleats on about MS but there's only so much they can do when people are determined to help bypass the security on their own machines.

 

No, my friend. You are poorly informed. "Run as Administrator" is an option that only occurs in Windows Vista. The problem with Windows Vista is that most--- if not all programs, have to be "Run as Administrator". Microsoft overdid their security systems on Vista so that computer games require a Run as Administrator  manually enabled.

 

nonsense, i  play ryzom without admin privilidges.

nothing to adjust here.

should therefore be possible for every reasonable piece of software.

but tastes are different some guys like it to run everything under root *laugs*

 

At first you were funny but the anger im seeing is truthfully a little hard for me to understand. Personally i dont by into the paranoia over Gameguard but if you feel so strongly about it then i have an idea for you. Just let it go and laugh at all of us morons who are infecting our PC's with this horrible virus.  Truth is man, its not healthy for you to get this upset.

He's probably upset because he plays Ryzom, a game that nobody has heard of or even plays ... it okay come to dark side of Aion, we have cookies

Originally posted by supbro

He's probably upset because he plays Ryzom, a game that nobody has heard of or even plays ... it okay come to dark side of Aion, we have cookies

Bah, don't invite him in, he's like a vampire. Second you let him in he starts trying to pull crap. Than's just a sad little troll trying to act big and mighty, and the bits of knowledge he vomits out are what he gathers from Wikipedia after editing the articles to fit what he believes.

But hey, if he wants to believe that Game Guard will evolve into Sky-Net and sic a bunch of Asian Terminators on us, go ahead and let him.

Gameguard has me ready to cancel my CE pre-order it's that bad. I am sorry NCSoft but I refuse to go into MSConfig and disable everything that is not Windows to play your game.

For all the problem that I have had with Age of Conan, it has never frozen up my PC on start requiring a hard restart.

And no, running as Admin doesn't work for everyone.

Originally posted by supbro

He's probably upset because he plays Ryzom, a game that nobody has heard of or even plays ... it okay come to dark side of Aion, we have cookies

Oh, now you have to start attacking him for the games he plays?

Ryzom is actually a pretty good little game. How stupid to make fun of a - by all accounts - unique and beautiful game which is respected even by people who hate it, and purely on grounds of its popularity. It was free for the past year, for god's sake. How can someone who mocks things they've never tried sake themselves seriously?

No one bought Blueberry Garden. No one watched Arrested Development or went to see Idiocracy or bought the first two Peter Murphy albums. It's weird how we have to point this out over and over again, month after month, year after year.

The problem with GameGuard is it's incredibly touchy when it comes to Aion in particular. Over the course of my graduate work in Korean Fluff, I've grown used to it, and never had a problem with it in the past except for its bitching about Process Monitor, and some excellent games (Bioshock comes to mind) are guilty of this so it was hard to hold a grudge. Reading over some of the other forums, it's interesting how many different conflicts and odd workarounds people have written about. For my part, simply disabling the damned thing under Services did the trick, go figure. Which leads me to suspect it could just be poorly implemented, or maybe even partly disabled out of consideration for Aion's arguably more touchy new Western audience.

If it's a sticking point for you, the only thing to do is wait until release and find out then just how intrusive it is in Aion's case. We've got two months to go, and as near as I can tell every other aspect of the game is already in very, very good shape. Your grandkids aren't going to look down on you because you missed the three day headstart or lost out on some fancy wings.

Originally posted by grandpagamer

Im no techy but my friend is and she told me that the people having probems with DRM's were those trying to circumvent or remove them, that very well could be what your virus protection is doing with GG and therefor causing problems. I have a firewall and i have virus protection and ive never had any problems with any game DRM"s or with GG. Well at any rate its launch time so have fun on the forums.

Sorry for bumping this old thread but I was looking around for information on whether or not GameGuard would come with Aion and just had to address this: grandpagamer, your friend is wrong.

DRM does not prevent piracy, games become available on torrents within days of release regardless of what protection scheme is used. The only people who suffer from DRM are those with incompatible hardware (just because you or people you know haven't suffered from DRM-related hardware failure doesn't mean it doesn't happen; neither I nor anyone I know has been infected by a trojan but I would be ignorant to assume that means it's paranoid to have antivirus and firewalls running), second hand retailers (publishers don't get profits from second hand sales, so they don't care what happens to these people), and casual pirates (not the type that rip disc images or copy the installation directory along with the registry entries, but the type who lends his/her game to a friend).

The reason that techies dislike rootkit-based DRMs is because of the way it works: it grants itself the highest level access (ring 0) to your computer to detect and prevent ripping programs, which in itself isn't TOO bad... until some lightbulb decides that the DRM also needs to do online verifications; so what you have is a program running that bypasses ALL your security AND has a direct line out, sending and receiving data from a specific server using an easily cracked encryption*. As a virus writer I wouldn't need to figure out how to beat the latest antivirus updates nor do I have to figure out how to get the virus to you because the DRM already does both for me; I can focus my efforts on finding an exploit in the DRM and spoofing the server traffic, which is easier said than done but certainly not impossible.

I'll admit there are a lot of people who whine simply for the sake of whining but as a gamer who also does his work and online banking on the same computer I frown heavily upon things that compromise my security; I buy games to be entertained, not to worry if I'll win the hardware incompatibility lottery or that someone will finally find that golden flaw. Is it paranoia? Probably, but then you can say I'm also paranoid for never downloading executables off warez sites.

*the encryption is easily cracked because anyone who has the DRM installed just needs to crack the program to find out what decryption key it uses; an extremely simple metaphor would be it's like installing the same lock in every house, giving everyone the same key, and hoping the thief next door doesn't realize this.

Anyway, that rant being said I don't like GameGuard for the similar reasons but it's relatively easy to bypass due to how GameGuard updates (via an unsecured http server), anyone with even a passing knowledge in redirecting traffic and running servers can lock the updater into a loop that a) prevents malicious intrusions from crackers and b) keeps the version old, thereby letting you run updated versions of your favorite macros/bots/memory editors/antivirus/etc. that failed to run before; there's a small overhead to be paid but you'd have to have a fairly wimpy rig to even notice it.

GameGuard won't stop me from buying Aion but it will make me wait a month or so longer - my main concern is that if the developers have too much faith on its anti-cheating capabilities they'll let the client handle certain processes to reduce server load... certain number-crunching processes like health or gold (hey, entirely possible, Phantasy Star Universe is a fairly recent game that used GameGuard and I discovered that they let the client handle the cash... not that I used this knowledge to my unfair advantage *cough*).

Originally posted by Pandaman102

Anyway, that rant being said I don't like GameGuard for the similar reasons but it's relatively easy to bypass due to how GameGuard updates (via an unsecured http server), anyone with even a passing knowledge in redirecting traffic and running servers can lock the updater into a loop that a) prevents malicious intrusions from crackers and b) keeps the version old, thereby letting you run updated versions of your favorite macros/bots/memory editors/antivirus/etc. that failed to run before; there's a small overhead to be paid but you'd have to have a fairly wimpy rig to even notice it.

GameGuard won't stop me from buying Aion but it will make me wait a month or so longer - my main concern is that if the developers have too much faith on its anti-cheating capabilities they'll let the client handle certain processes to reduce server load... certain number-crunching processes like health or gold (hey, entirely possible, Phantasy Star Universe is a fairly recent game that used GameGuard and I discovered that they let the client handle the cash... not that I used this knowledge to my unfair advantage *cough*).

Hi,

This isn't much of a solution for user who suffers from BSOD, etc.  As it means still loading GameGuard kernel mode driver (dump_wmimmc.sys)... injection of npggNT.des into all running processes...(except smss, hehe.)

If anyone has interest, I create some simple code that disables GameGuard so he never runs.. allows for playing Aion without drama from GameGuard --> fyyre.l2-fashion.de/aion/aion.html

At present, only support for North American and European Aion client.

You make good point, about devs using GG as crutch for poor coding/design skills... and is sadly, most users having trouble with GameGuard are not cheating, just experience side effects from hooking circus used by GameGuard.

-Fyyre