I know you guys can read but have a hard time with comprehension so I am going to make my thesis statement very clear.

Leveling to 80 is a mistake because raiding, pvp, arena and questing are terrible at 80.

Raiding

To get into a raid, which is the last thing I want to do, you have to grind heroics.  I am done with the grind.  Done.  To get the enchants you need to raid you have to grind rep, I am done with the grind.  Having done that, to get an invite you need to meet somebody elses standards of achievment.  I don't answer to anyone.  

PvP

WG pops every 2.5 hours.  That's crazy.  I know why they do it, which takes us back to grinding for raids.  What a twisted web they weave.  I know you could go to AB and WSG and EotS, but why?  This all leads back to grinding again because you HAVE to get the PvP gear or raid gear to really pwn. So the grind is unavoidable whichever way you turn.

Arena

I know there are very talented and strong PvPers in the arena competition and I salute them!!  But to get wheret hey are they had to grind, grind, grind.  back in the beginning that would have been cool, because the honor was fun to get and plentiful, it wasn't a grind.  Now the wg tokens get you in and a good rating moves you up.  More grinding!

Questing

People quest at 80 to gain rep, gear, chants, gems and money.  Let's grind some more!

Staying at 60 removes the grind, the need to depend on others and you aren't playing Blizzards game.

I had a 52 pally on the first server I ever played on.  Made him in 2005 he was Alliance and on an RP server, ewwwww!

But I saved him from this living hell by making a plan.  I spent a slow morning at work researching and made a seven step plan that  turned him into a level 60 AV machine. In two days it was done.  He was level 60 with top gear and the only people involved were me and the people I hired to run me through Hellfire 10 times, Blood Furnace once, and kill one 63 Elite quest boss. 

Now I have a toon that pvps non stop, has made friends from all over the battle group,  and who is respected and consulted for gearing questions. 

No grinding, no heroics, no punk ass raid leaders, no rep, no tokens, just continous pvp in a fun slot with cool people.

No more grinding!

Awesome idea! I'm gonna roll a character and grind to 60 real quick!

Kidding aside, good for you finding a way that you enjoy the game. Isn't Blizzard planning to implement a method to stop XP gain and keep your character at a specific level though? Would that basically achieve what you are describing anyhow?

 all that is going to acheive is bringing up Q times.  so the 60 twinks are all going to migrate to Reckoning battle group which has become the official 60 twink group.

Quote:

"and you aren't playing Blizzards game."

If you feel the need to say that, why not just find another game?

Originally posted by Kamandi777

I know you guys can read but have a hard time with comprehension so I am going to make my thesis statement very clear.

Leveling to 80 is a mistake because raiding, pvp, arena and questing are terrible at 80.
.................................................................................................
.................................................................................................

Raiding

To get into a raid, which is the last thing I want to do, you have to grind heroics.  I am done with the grind.  Done.  To get the enchants you need to raid you have to grind rep, I am done with the grind.  Having done that, to get an invite you need to meet somebody elses standards of achievment.  I don't answer to anyone.  

No grinding, no heroics, no punk ass raid leaders, no rep, no tokens, just continous pvp in a fun slot with cool people.

No more grinding!

I haven't read much up on the changes to the battlegrounds and the XP given from them, but isn't it going to be impossible to stay at 60 and grind pvp?

Glad you enjoyed the game, but it's from your perspective. The balance at 60 is virtually non-existant, and honestly, if all you want to do is log in an PVP, there's much better games to do that in.

However, just because you enjoy something doesn't make it not a grind. All you did was twink a 60 and grind battlegrounds. Which is the same thing most people at 80 do, grind battlegrounds and arenas. The only difference is you're 20 levels lower. And missing out on the new instanced (and non-instanced) PVP areas, all the while limiting your gameplay much more so than you could ever possibly do at 80.

As long as your enjoying it, that's what matters. But at the end of the day, you're still grinding. Just with different motivation behind it. If I logged ingame and went to a secluded area and did nothing but kill mobs for two hours at level 60, because I enjoyed it, but someone asked what I was doing, telling them I'm grinding is the correct answer. And the same goes for you. You're just enjoying the game grinding PVP 20 levels lower. 

And, you depended on others to gear you up as much as any raider, you just got it done faster since you only needed a few drops from lower 5 mans. And if you don't want to play Blizzard's game, as you stated, why in fact are you playing Blizzard's game? Aren't you still paying $15/month? Then yes, you're playing Blizzard's game. The same way as any 19-29-39-49 twink does. 

 I see the level 80 rat in cage scenario.  You wait 2.5 hours for wg to pop.  You fight to get tokens.  You then rush from wg to the heroics to get more tokens if you win.  If you lose, you get nothing but a 2.5 hour wait.  You could go grind rep.  Tinse repeat rinse repeat rinse repeat!  LOL!!  OH JOY!  

I am not grinding pvp.  I am getting 5-7 minute pops.  No waiting, just killing.  Thats what I want to do.  And it is harder to twink 39 and 49 than it is 60.  You have been to Mara and Uldaman...ack! What god awful places those are.  

I have found no wait pvp.   This has also encouraged me to make a mage...somethig nI have never done or would do.  But I have seen some serious mages in 60 av.  Real players.  

And once again 5 minute pops!

so because its 5min que times, its not a grind?  power to you for twinking at 60, but you can do the same at 80.  I see mostly 1-2min ques, and just run around healing people in WSG because I find it fun.

yes WoW is a grind, most MMOs are, but some of us find fun things to do.   you are enjoying PvP at 60, I enjoy PvP at 29 on my hunter and 80 on my druid.   sadly the changes to BGs are going to make que times MUCH longer pre-80 by seperating the twinks and non-twinks.

No, you don't pug raids, you find yourself a nice raiding guild who starts from naxx and after you've been geared, you can progress with those folks or join an Ulduar raid.

Grind is in the eye of the beholder.

If you're paying a sub to WoW, then you are playing Blizzard's game--they don't care much what you do, as long as you pay. They're a corporation, not your mom.

 I loved Mara D:

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Originally posted by Kamandi777
I know you guys can read but have a hard time with comprehension so I am going to make my thesis statement very clear. Leveling to 80 is a mistake because raiding, pvp, arena and questing are terrible at 80. 

---

Hmmm, you start your 'thesis' (loved that) by insulting everyone and then go on to say why your way of playing the game is so much better, because...........well......you say it is!

Well, who the hell are you?? I don't know you, after reading that i can't say that you would be the sort of person i would spend my gaming time around and to me your style of game play is both anti social and pretty saddening, but that's just me.

At the end of the day we both pay our subs and enjoy the game in our own ways, for me it is more about the social aspects and the people i spend time with both in and out of the game. We chat, we run a few dungeons, do a few BG's, run a raid, help members with quests and just generally enjoy our game time. If the game was a 'grind' in any way to me i would stop playing tomorrow as that is not what my game time should be about, but again, it is each to their own.

Originally posted by Kamandi777

I know you guys can read but have a hard time with comprehension so I am going to make my thesis statement very clear.

Leveling to 80 is a mistake because raiding, pvp, arena and questing are terrible at 80.

 

Raiding

To get into a raid, which is the last thing I want to do, you have to grind heroics.  I am done with the grind.  Done.  To get the enchants you need to raid you have to grind rep, I am done with the grind.  Having done that, to get an invite you need to meet somebody elses standards of achievment.  I don't answer to anyone.  

PvP

WG pops every 2.5 hours.  That's crazy.  I know why they do it, which takes us back to grinding for raids.  What a twisted web they weave.  I know you could go to AB and WSG and EotS, but why?  This all leads back to grinding again because you HAVE to get the PvP gear or raid gear to really pwn. So the grind is unavoidable whichever way you turn.

 

Arena

I know there are very talented and strong PvPers in the arena competition and I salute them!!  But to get wheret hey are they had to grind, grind, grind.  back in the beginning that would have been cool, because the honor was fun to get and plentiful, it wasn't a grind.  Now the wg tokens get you in and a good rating moves you up.  More grinding!

 

Questing

People quest at 80 to gain rep, gear, chants, gems and money.  Let's grind some more!

 

Staying at 60 removes the grind, the need to depend on others and you aren't playing Blizzards game.

I had a 52 pally on the first server I ever played on.  Made him in 2005 he was Alliance and on an RP server, ewwwww!

But I saved him from this living hell by making a plan.  I spent a slow morning at work researching and made a seven step plan that  turned him into a level 60 AV machine. In two days it was done.  He was level 60 with top gear and the only people involved were me and the people I hired to run me through Hellfire 10 times, Blood Furnace once, and kill one 63 Elite quest boss. 

Now I have a toon that pvps non stop, has made friends from all over the battle group,  and who is respected and consulted for gearing questions. 

 

No grinding, no heroics, no punk ass raid leaders, no rep, no tokens, just continous pvp in a fun slot with cool people.

No more grinding!

 

 

 

 

Man I must be only me because I remember grinding at level 60 lol.

Runing MC every god damn week forever getting my thunderfury bindings,Mining at 4am for 3 hours everyday gfor my thorium for the thunderfury, Running BWL over and over so everyone in the whole guild could have a complete set of T2 for AQ and Naxx, Farming Naxx for frost gear and those god damn splinters. Farming for Fire resist Gear, Grinding both ZG and AQ20 for rep over and over. Grinding level 55-60 5 mans for our first dungeon set over and over and after 200 fucking runs those god damn Valor pants never dropped!!!!!!

Farming tribute Runs, Ony, Dark iron Ore,  Farming for an epic mount, Farming Argent dawn REP, Helping every god damn guildy get ony keyed, Gringing the gates of AQ shit, Farming every raid for rare crafting patterns, Waking up early in the morning to beat the other hardcore guild to world bosses.

Grinding BGs all god damn day for High warlord and then farminbg honor for the same shit.

Did you even play Vanilla WoW????

Edit: Oh I forgot farming UBRS for that Hide and LBRS for that god damn key!!!!!

Edit2: Oh and Dungeon Set 2!!!!! running every bastard guildie through that 45 minute baron run was hell and then having to run them through Ubrs for that stupid dragonkin boss.

Originally posted by Kamandi777

 all that is going to acheive is bringing up Q times.  so the 60 twinks are all going to migrate to Reckoning battle group which has become the official 60 twink group.

Ah, cool. Thanks for the information. The PvP balance was way better at level 60. Ever since the patch before BC it's been really really bad. Lich King just made it even worse. I'll stick to 60 as well.

Just for the record I actually think its cool that you like level 60 content but please don;t tell people there are no grinds.

Once blizz lets you stop Xp and level 60 guilds pop up you will see what im talking about.

Too bad they wont bring back level 60 nax you could get the full experience then.

Originally posted by jason_webb

 

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Originally posted by Kamandi777
I know you guys can read but have a hard time with comprehension so I am going to make my thesis statement very clear. Leveling to 80 is a mistake because raiding, pvp, arena and questing are terrible at 80. 

---

 

Hmmm, you start your 'thesis' (loved that) by insulting everyone and then go on to say why your way of playing the game is so much better, because...........well......you say it is!

Well, who the hell are you?? I don't know you, after reading that i can't say that you would be the sort of person i would spend my gaming time around and to me your style of game play is both anti social and pretty saddening, but that's just me.

At the end of the day we both pay our subs and enjoy the game in our own ways, for me it is more about the social aspects and the people i spend time with both in and out of the game. We chat, we run a few dungeons, do a few BG's, run a raid, help members with quests and just generally enjoy our game time. If the game was a 'grind' in any way to me i would stop playing tomorrow as that is not what my game time should be about, but again, it is each to their own.

Every post I have made here gets answered by people who didn't read or didn't comprehend my main point.

Who am I?  The guy that will pwn ur face if you come to my 60 av!

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Originally posted by Kamandi777
Every post I have made here gets answered by people who didn't read or didn't comprehend my main point.
Who am I?  The guy that will pwn ur face if you come to my 60 av!

---

Hmmm, EVERY post you make gets answered by people that don't understand your main point, i think there may be a message in there that you may not be comprehending??

Ironically, i think that you failed to comprehend my post as well! My point, as i will now put it in plain english for you was that it doesn't matter how you feel the game should be played as that is purely your own viewpoint and opinion which means nothing to me as my play style and viewpoint is completely different.

As for "owning my face" in a L60 AV, i really couldn't give a rats ass! When i do go to BG's i go out there to enjoy the fight, earn some honor and work with the other players. If i die, i die, doesn't really matter in the big scheme of things as i will just res and carry on where i left off. BTW, loved the whole "MY 60 av", classic!

you play to much...

tbh i just skimmed through the first half of the OP.

Now that i;ve fully read your post I don't get how stopping at 60 has any significate advantage as any other twink.

Shit you could level to 79 and pvp like you are and have access to other Bgs and more gear to min max with.

Also I wouldn't be so proud of your achievements, all your doing is getting other players to clear dungeons for you and you're killing leveling players with gear never intended to be used at 60 (pre-tbc).

So stop with the chest pumping because you aren't special.

*ALL* MMOs are grinds. Show me one that isn't. You are an idiot OP.

Originally posted by Kamandi777

 [...]

 and you aren't playing Blizzards game.

Hahahaha. Yes you are =P

"Staying at 60 removes the grind, the need to depend on others and you aren't playing Blizzards game."

So, not grinding means I'm not playing a game by Blizzard anymore?

I can almost agree with OP, except grind itslef because every MMO have grind an some form, the problem is more about the gameplay and the freedom to make a decision than just mindless grind. Even many peoples can think for me as a WoW hater, for me classic WoW was very fun and the only reason I dislike WoW now is the direction the expansions are developed. From a relatively complex and free in nature WoW was converted in linear item grind greed fest.

Sounds like its time for you to pick up a new MMO?

Originally posted by JGMIII

 

 I don't get how stopping at 60 has any significate advantage as any other twink.

Shit you could level to 79 and pvp like you are and have access to other Bgs and more gear to min max with.

The game becomes much more class-imbalanced once you go past 60. With the combination of certain spells/skills and the newer gear, certain classes are just overpowered. Not so much at level 60 though.

You want to know why I quit at 50?

I got tired of soloing most of the time. The only groups you could get in was for dungeon runs which is boring cuz you run through it as fast as possible, there is no exploring no having fun. If you mess up you get bitched at and its not like the death penalty in this game is harsh or anything.  Hell people rarely got bitched at in FFXI even when people de-leveled or the whole party got wiped.

The PvP was horrible granted this game was originally PvE but still no thank you BG's Yes Open World PvP.  Aslo  I got tired of getting ganked and camped by ??.  I still don't understand how camping out and killing someone over and over again isn't grieving.  Yes I can go back to the spirit person but that person knows I'll come back to where I was to complete a quest and just kill me again. Yes I can do other things but who says they aren't going to follow me or someone else will do the same thing. It wouldn't be so bad if everyone was around my level at least Id have a chance to kill them but when you have a bunch of  ?? going back to areas to kill lowbies its not fair nor fun at all. If they wanted to people could team up and have someone sit at the bind stone and another by their corpse and basically force someone to quit playing because they can't do anything and its totally legal.

Its not that I can't handle getting beat or anything  I just don't think its fun to kill someone in 1 hit. I mostly PvP people if I think its going to be a challenge. I don't get it how people get their kicks from killing people  over and over that are so low of a level they don't even stand a chance.   I may kill someone here and there if they are a low level but I won't camp them or anything like that. I just like my presence to be known.