Originally posted by Zorvan

For the simple minded, I'll spell it out: telling Tasos or the players that you are a reviewer ends up with the reviewer being presented with "staged" events, not reality.
 

Pretty clear to me Zorvan. A staged cybering would ultimately sway even the most unbiased reviewer.

Think how different this review would be if the reviewer became aware the cybering was fraudulent!?! 0/10 I said it. Think that one over.

  Then the reviewer should do his job by joining a guild, going to some sieges, farming to buy his own stupid house, farm to buy a siege engine & burn his house or someone else's to the ground to experience how it feels, farm to buy a boat, navigate it & shoot with canons, etc. That's what  it takes to write a full impartial review. Put in the time & try hard to experience the main features. If you're anti-social, don't feel like joining a guild, don't feel like farming much, then you ask the devs.

  When a critic goes to a restaurant he goes to order a full meal, the chef's specials included. He doesn't go in, order fries & a soda & then write about how shitty those fries were & how warm the drink was.

Originally posted by imortalis

  Then the reviewer should do his job by joining a guild, going to some sieges, farming to buy his own stupid house, farm to buy a siege engine & burn his house or someone else's to the ground to experience how it feels, farm to buy a boat, navigate it & shoot with canons, etc. That's what  it takes to write a full impartial review. Put in the time & try hard to experience the main features. If you're anti-social, don't feel like joining a guild, don't feel like farming much, then you ask the devs.

  When a critic goes to a restaurant he goes to order a full meal, the chef's specials included. He doesn't go in, order fries & a soda & then write about how shitty those fries were & how warm the drink was.

Using "your" analogy, the critic doesn't order fries and a soda, but he doesn't order the whole menu either. He samples parts and gives his opinion.

Originally posted by imortalis

  Then the reviewer should do his job by joining a guild, going to some sieges, farming to buy his own stupid house, farm to buy a siege engine & burn his house or someone else's to the ground to experience how it feels, farm to buy a boat, navigate it & shoot with canons, etc. That's what  it takes to write a full impartial review. Put in the time & try hard to experience the main features. If you're anti-social, don't feel like joining a guild, don't feel like farming much, then you ask the devs.

  When a critic goes to a restaurant he goes to order a full meal, the chef's specials included. He doesn't go in, order fries & a soda & then write about how shitty those fries were & how warm the drink was.

He also doesn't order everything on the menu that the restaurant has to offer, which would be more akin to trying all of DFO's "gameplay features".  The one meal and the customer service is what the reviewer uses to base the review on.

Originally posted by imortalis

  Then the reviewer should do his job by joining a guild, going to some sieges, farming to buy his own stupid house, farm to buy a siege engine & burn his house or someone else's to the ground to experience how it feels, farm to buy a boat, navigate it & shoot with canons, etc. That's what  it takes to write a full impartial review. Put in the time & try hard to experience the main features. If you're anti-social, don't feel like joining a guild, don't feel like farming much, then you ask the devs.

  When a critic goes to a restaurant he goes to order a full meal, the chef's specials included. He doesn't go in, order fries & a soda & then write about how shitty those fries were & how warm the drink was.

I thought this was supposed to be a "sandbox."  Shouldn't the reviewer play as HE wanted to play, not the way you want him to play.  He played the game, he didn't like it.  A lot of people don't like it.  That's their opinion.  They are entitled to such, just as you are entitled to your's.

If the reviewer was given a boat, doesn't that defeat the purpose of actually playing, which is what a review is supposed to be based on.  Let's just give him the best gear, make him the leader of the best clan, max all of his skills.....kinda silly, right?

Originally posted by ninjajucer

I think the 6 was a tad generous.

^^This

I would personally give it a 4 but to each his own

Originally posted by junzo316

If the reviewer was given a boat, doesn't that defeat the purpose of actually playing, which is what a review is supposed to be based on.  Let's just give him the best gear, make him the leader of the best clan, max all of his skills.....kinda silly, right?

This brings up a point in that "barrier to entry" can be a measurable portion of the review. If the reviewer, in 'x' amount of hours, was unable to experience specific features of the game, then that would be indicitive of what another player might be able to expect. Now if 'x' was 2 hours, then that might not be a big deal. If 'x' were 40 hours, people might look and decide that the barrier is too high for them to invest the initial effort.

This is not to say one way or the other about DF, but just something that occured to me as an implied portion of the review.

Originally posted by imortalis

  Then the reviewer should do his job by joining a guild, going to some sieges, farming to buy his own stupid house, farm to buy a siege engine & burn his house or someone else's to the ground to experience how it feels, farm to buy a boat, navigate it & shoot with canons, etc. That's what  it takes to write a full impartial review. Put in the time & try hard to experience the main features. If you're anti-social, don't feel like joining a guild, don't feel like farming much, then you ask the devs.

  When a critic goes to a restaurant he goes to order a full meal, the chef's specials included. He doesn't go in, order fries & a soda & then write about how shitty those fries were & how warm the drink was.

" When a critic goes to a restaurant he goes to order a full meal, the chef's specials included. He doesn't go in, order fries & a soda & then write about how shitty those fries were & how warm the drink was"

I'm a Chef and I've been a food critic for a mid-sized city. My point of saying all that is that you have *no* idea what you're talking in regards to how a food critic operates in real life.

 My brother in-law is a food critic. He orders a full meal; entree, 1st & 2nd course, dessert. At least 1 of the courses is a chef's special. It doesn't mean he'll eat the whole thing, but he'll definitely try'm. If a restaurant claims to have exquisite lasagna he'll order it.

 If Darkfall claims to be mainly a PvP game & takes pride in their siege system, naval or mounted combat, player city building or whatever, how can you review this game without trying & writing about these. Keep in mind, these features are daily routines for darkfall players or something that you'll try at least once. No1 is asking him to try the impossible & to single handedly destroy a city.

 Again, I'm not saying that the fries were good & the soda was cold. He's right about that. But he didn't try the lasagna & the ravioli & the tiramisu, which they pride themselves in serving. And then it's the other thing that not everybody likes italian. I, myself, am not feeling it much lately.

Originally posted by Demonshank

Originally posted by Pocahinha

6 is the score mmorpg gave to the game...

 

If all mmorpg users would agree with the score i would cut my balls out and eat them ..full of joy

 

Everyone STOP your shit!

Pocahinha has a real proposition we should not ignore.

Seriously, who are we to stand in the way of this mans wish?

Lets all agree for the betterment of this discussion and move on to this guy cutting his balls out and eating them.

 

Please, lets make this happen. Thanks Pocahinha, cannot wait to hear how it ends.

I dont see the problem here. I liked the review. Its fair. But,

When someone desperately wants everyone to agree and is making a commitment to us. We damn well better get to agreeing for the sake of their sanity.

Suck it up guys! Please, Please, Please, lets do this. Everyone go back, edit your posts to say: I agree.

Damn, reading some of these beginning posts really makes me see why I havent been on here in a while. Sorry guys.

Originally posted by imortalis

 My brother in-law is a food critic. He orders a full meal; entree, 1st & 2nd course, dessert. At least 1 of the courses is a chef's special. It doesn't mean he'll eat the whole thing, but he'll definitely try'm. If a restaurant claims to have exquisite lasagna he'll order it.

 If Darkfall claims to be mainly a PvP game & takes pride in their siege system, naval or mounted combat, player city building or whatever, how can you review this game without trying & writing about these. Keep in mind, these features are daily routines for darkfall players or something that you'll try at least once. No1 is asking him to try the impossible & to single handedly destroy a city.

 Again, I'm not saying that the fries were good & the soda was cold. He's right about that. But he didn't try the lasagna & the ravioli & the tiramisu, which they pride themselves in serving. And then it's the other thing that not everybody likes italian. I, myself, am not feeling it much lately.

 

Your brother-in-law is doing it wrong, sorry.

 Ordering that much for one person is an immediate tip-off that the customer is a critic ( unless they weight 400 lbs. ) and the staff is trained to contact the manager immediately when that type of an order comes in.

He might as well have yelled at the door "Yoo hooo! I'm a food critic, treat me special".

The best and most honest reviews come from smart food critics that know how to not draw attention to themselves with abnormal behavior. Going back for a second visit or taking a group and trying some of everyone's meal is the usual tactic that a saavy food critic will use.

Just an FYI........

 Neways, it doesn't even matter. I'm defending a game I'm not even playing atm. I correct myself. I'm not defending the game. I'm simply saying that this review seems incomplete. Not saying it should be 8/10 or 2/10. I don't care about the result. I wanted to read from this guy that: I was in a siege & it sucked ass, because such & such. I tried some mounted combat & it was stupid, because such & such. I had the misfortune of getting aboard a ship. I started singing: I'm on a boat, I'm on a boat, take a good hard look at the motherF..ing boat, but then we drowned for no reason.

 Just wanted him to write about these things & then I think; he knows what he's talking about, cuz he did it. A partial review is unfair to any game & player out there.

And sorry to be hijacking the thread, I know that this isn't the food channel....

Originally posted by imortalis

  Then the reviewer should do his job by joining a guild, going to some sieges, farming to buy his own stupid house, farm to buy a siege engine & burn his house or someone else's to the ground to experience how it feels, farm to buy a boat, navigate it & shoot with canons, etc. That's what  it takes to write a full impartial review. Put in the time & try hard to experience the main features. If you're anti-social, don't feel like joining a guild, don't feel like farming much, then you ask the devs.

  When a critic goes to a restaurant he goes to order a full meal, the chef's specials included. He doesn't go in, order fries & a soda & then write about how shitty those fries were & how warm the drink was.

You are wrong sir, and this is undisputable. One purpose of a review is to determine a game's playability. If the game sucks as bad as Darkfall, it will not take too long to discover this, and there is no need to play further if the game is not holding the reviewer's interest. If you went into a job interview, and demonstrated you were some kind of jerk off, the interviewer would see no reason to continue the interview and just tell you that they will contact you if they are ineterested later.

In other words, do you like the taste of turds? If you have never tried one, then go and drop a duece. Once you have done that taste it. But just getting a tad on your finger and trying it is not enough. You must eat the entire turd to really get a feel fo the texture, consistency, and taste in order to really give a propper review on it.

FYI I guess if you wanted to be impartial, stand behind someone else when they drop one with a catching device.

Originally posted by Hammertime1

Originally posted by imortalis

 My brother in-law is a food critic. He orders a full meal; entree, 1st & 2nd course, dessert. At least 1 of the courses is a chef's special. It doesn't mean he'll eat the whole thing, but he'll definitely try'm. If a restaurant claims to have exquisite lasagna he'll order it.

 If Darkfall claims to be mainly a PvP game & takes pride in their siege system, naval or mounted combat, player city building or whatever, how can you review this game without trying & writing about these. Keep in mind, these features are daily routines for darkfall players or something that you'll try at least once. No1 is asking him to try the impossible & to single handedly destroy a city.

 Again, I'm not saying that the fries were good & the soda was cold. He's right about that. But he didn't try the lasagna & the ravioli & the tiramisu, which they pride themselves in serving. And then it's the other thing that not everybody likes italian. I, myself, am not feeling it much lately.

 

 

Your brother-in-law is doing it wrong, sorry.

 Ordering that much for one person is an immediate tip-off that the customer is a critic ( unless they weight 400 lbs. ) and the staff is trained to contact the manager immediately when that type of an order comes in.

He might as well have yelled at the door "Yoo hooo! I'm a food critic, treat me special".

 

The best and most honest reviews come from smart food critics that know how to not draw attention to themselves with abnormal behavior. Going back for a second visit or taking a group and trying some of everyone's meal is the usual tactic that a saavy food critic will use.

Just an FYI........

He never goes alone. I don't think there's any1 that sits alone in a restaurant to enjoy food anymore, if there ever was any.
 

Originally posted by oddjobs74

Originally posted by imortalis

  Then the reviewer should do his job by joining a guild, going to some sieges, farming to buy his own stupid house, farm to buy a siege engine & burn his house or someone else's to the ground to experience how it feels, farm to buy a boat, navigate it & shoot with canons, etc. That's what  it takes to write a full impartial review. Put in the time & try hard to experience the main features. If you're anti-social, don't feel like joining a guild, don't feel like farming much, then you ask the devs.

  When a critic goes to a restaurant he goes to order a full meal, the chef's specials included. He doesn't go in, order fries & a soda & then write about how shitty those fries were & how warm the drink was.

 

You are wrong sir, and this is undisputable. One purpose of a review is to determine a game's playability. If the game sucks as bad as Darkfall, it will not take too long to discover this, and there is no need to play further if the game is not holding the reviewer's interest. If you went into a job interview, and demonstrated you were some kind of jerk off, the interviewer would see no reason to continue the interview and just tell you that they will contact you if they are ineterested later.

In other words, do you like the taste of turds? If you have never tried one, then go and drop a duece. Once you have done that taste it. But just getting a tad on your finger and trying it is not enough. You must eat the entire turd to really get a feel fo the texture, consistency, and taste in order to really give a propper review on it.

 

 

FYI I guess if you wanted to be impartial, stand behind someone else when they drop one with a catching device.

Wish I hadn't read this post before dinner...NASTY...

"He never goes alone. I don't think there's any1 that sits alone in a restaurant to enjoy food anymore, if there ever was any."
 

Only those 400 pounders that I mentioned.......

He never goes alone. I don't think there's any1 that sits alone in a restaurant to enjoy food anymore, if there ever was any.

I'm beginning to wonder if you ever leave your basement.  Plenty of people go out and enjoy dinner alone. 

Back to topic:

Review was spot on with a "D".....

Originally posted by imortalis

  Then the reviewer should do his job by joining a guild, going to some sieges, farming to buy his own stupid house, farm to buy a siege engine & burn his house or someone else's to the ground to experience how it feels, farm to buy a boat, navigate it & shoot with canons, etc. That's what  it takes to write a full impartial review. Put in the time & try hard to experience the main features. If you're anti-social, don't feel like joining a guild, don't feel like farming much, then you ask the devs.

  When a critic goes to a restaurant he goes to order a full meal, the chef's specials included. He doesn't go in, order fries & a soda & then write about how shitty those fries were & how warm the drink was.

Go through and read every other MMO review here on MMORPG.COM.  Do they cover the stuff you are mentioning?

I'll make it even easier for you as I made a table that shows the score and what MMOs have been reviewed here...

www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2983158#2983158

Now after you have read every review (just the first original review... not the re-reviews) come back and tell us the percentage of those reviews that have the sort of stuff you are suggesting being covered for DarkFall.

For example:

In the EvE review does the reviewer give examples of space battles with Capital ships?

In the EQ review does the reviewer give examples of taking down Lady Vox?

In the LoTRO review does the reviwer give examples of the group content in Book 8?

The point is that all MMO first reviews are of the basic content.  Later... if the MMO is around in a few years... it may be deserving of a re-review.  At that time, the more advanced content is usually given a more thorough covering, as it is assumed the majority of the gaming populace will be experiencing that content then. 

Anyway... if your research of all the other reviews does in fact point to me being wrong and you being correct... by all means come back and let me know.  I'll check back from time to time in this thread.  Good Luck. 

The more this imortalis rants about this review the more I am thinking they work for AV or something.   Some of this persons responses make no sense what so ever.   Like that food critic thing.   Weird.

Originally posted by imortalis

 My brother in-law is a food critic. He orders a full meal; entree, 1st & 2nd course, dessert. At least 1 of the courses is a chef's special. It doesn't mean he'll eat the whole thing, but he'll definitely try'm. If a restaurant claims to have exquisite lasagna he'll order it.

 If Darkfall claims to be mainly a PvP game & takes pride in their siege system, naval or mounted combat, player city building or whatever, how can you review this game without trying & writing about these. Keep in mind, these features are daily routines for darkfall players or something that you'll try at least once. No1 is asking him to try the impossible & to single handedly destroy a city.

 Again, I'm not saying that the fries were good & the soda was cold. He's right about that. But he didn't try the lasagna & the ravioli & the tiramisu, which they pride themselves in serving. And then it's the other thing that not everybody likes italian. I, myself, am not feeling it much lately.

 

so he is gonna order all 8 entrees on a menu and eat em?

If i buy a game do i need to try ALL the "entrees" before i can review it?

I been playing eve for 8 months, i know i havent experienced everything yet, but i could make a review and tell you i love it.....

I played other games for 5 months, i know also i havent tried everything, but i could make a review and tell you i hate it.

So if i hate it after 5 months...what would POSSIBLY make me think i am going to like it at higher levels/later in the game. If a game cannot attract you within the first few days, then the game is just going to be boring and dull up to the later levels.

I know games which start of awesome but then die off later on *AoC will be my example there*, yet i have never played a game which started off bad and got better at later stages....

And i severely doubt your brother in law is a food critic, i love how people all of a sudden know (or are) critics, programmers, devs, etc at the most opportune moments.

Ummm...he spoke the lingo well enough that I think that he's telling the truth.

And I've got both a Culinary degree and industry experience to base my opinion on...

Originally posted by Hammertime1

Ummm...he spoke the lingo well enough that I think that he's telling the truth.

And I've got both a Culinary degree and industry experience to base my opinion on...

please i could have saidthe same answer as him, does watching the food network make me an expert too?

and way to nitpick the closing line but not the "entree" of the post lol