The enormous question mark hanging over Star Trek Online is the issue of microtransactions.

I thought Cryptic had lost their mind when they announced a subscription + microtransaction model for CO, but when I read they were considering doing the same for STO, I knew they had.

Star Trek's Federation doesn't even have money. There's no greed, everyone shares, hugs trees, is kind to small animals etc. etc. Fans of the franchise tend to yearn for that egalitarian utopia.

So naturally Cryptic thought that adding a shopping mall to the game - so real-world money has an influence on the gameworld - is a good idea...

Poor old Gene is probably turning in his grave.

Originally posted by haratu

Originally posted by infester

I still can´t say anything about the games in the list because they didn´t release real details about mechanics and personally, I think MMOs like Aion, wich are real close to release and have only to say "you can fly", and "create nice looking characters" have no potential at all. I would like to see more MMOs with real player economies, player zone control, RvR (yes...bastards) and to see a game that a player could actually make a difference in the world, more and more we seem to be going from MMOs to MSO (Massively Single Player). 

I agree, Aion to me never set itself as anything vastly different from a bunch of MMOs before it, potential for it seems to be low (alhtough hype is quite high). there are numerous games coming in the next 6months with player economies, new ideas, different combat methods, and many other things, and yet only a couple are mentioned.

And while I am a fan of Stargate, the MMO was sought for by me, but after a very short time I lost interest because I saw very little potential for it as a game.

New doesn't necessarily mean better.

Just about every car on the market follows the same small-metal-box-on-four-wheels design..... because it works.

Aion has taken the best of what has worked in other mmos and added some polish. WOW was an unabashed EQ-clone, and it far exceeded even Blizzard's expectations of success. So to argue that "it isn't new therefore has little potential" is a bit silly.

Originally posted by green13

The enormous question mark hanging over Star Trek Online is the issue of microtransactions.

I thought Cryptic had lost their mind when they announced a subscription + microtransaction model for CO, but when I read they were considering doing the same for STO, I knew they had.

Star Trek's Federation doesn't even have money. There's no greed, everyone shares, hugs trees, is kind to small animals etc. etc. Fans of the franchise tend to yearn for that egalitarian utopia.

So naturally Cryptic thought that adding a shopping mall to the game - so real-world money has an influence on the gameworld - is a good idea...

Poor old Gene is probably turning in his grave.

Just think of Cryptic as the Ferengi. It'll make more sense. They want your pressed latinum.

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

Yes I am also one of those guys who won't play another Funcom game as long as I live, and yes it was a nice little jab at people like me. But I think there are enough people who see what that company produces that it will keep the numbers down. Kind of the same result I'd expect when Mythic releases something after the disastor that was WAR.

It wasn't a jab, it was a recognition. I recognize that this is how ome people feel. it's not how I feel, but i do absolutely respect the consumer's ability to vote with their wallets... Which is what I said. No jab in there.

Originally posted by green13

Originally posted by haratu

Originally posted by infester

I still can´t say anything about the games in the list because they didn´t release real details about mechanics and personally, I think MMOs like Aion, wich are real close to release and have only to say "you can fly", and "create nice looking characters" have no potential at all. I would like to see more MMOs with real player economies, player zone control, RvR (yes...bastards) and to see a game that a player could actually make a difference in the world, more and more we seem to be going from MMOs to MSO (Massively Single Player). 

I agree, Aion to me never set itself as anything vastly different from a bunch of MMOs before it, potential for it seems to be low (alhtough hype is quite high). there are numerous games coming in the next 6months with player economies, new ideas, different combat methods, and many other things, and yet only a couple are mentioned.

And while I am a fan of Stargate, the MMO was sought for by me, but after a very short time I lost interest because I saw very little potential for it as a game.

New doesn't necessarily mean better.

Just about every car on the market follows the same small-metal-box-on-four-wheels design..... because it works.

Aion has taken the best of what has worked in other mmos and added some polish. WOW was an unabashed EQ-clone, and it far exceeded even Blizzard's expectations of success. So to argue that "it isn't new therefore has little potential" is a bit silly.

What I was referring to is exactly the small-metal-box-on-four-wheels design. I my opinion it´s nice to play and even fun if it´s done right, like WoW did, but I said I would really like to see someone bringing something actually pretty old, but that is quite hard to do, that is player control.

Back in the days, MMOs were hard because they required skill and thinking and planning, but if you worked hard you could get something from it. WoW made the formula simpler, they said: "don´t worry, we´ll take care of everything, just have fun". But they ended up making a game that you don´t have any control of your character. I agree with you, good things are to be considered and WoW is good, but it´s time we used the technology we have to go where we wanted to go. I mean, UO still more MMOish than WoW. Still I have to agree that this doesn´t mean we need something new, like a new game, like mentioned in the article with EVE, even WoW could bring up player control.

Originally posted by Greenie

Originally posted by EricDanie

Good article, people will jump on you because they don't understand the subjectivity of the world "potential" and how it can mean something that never reached live servers.

If you couple that with past articles he's written that do not accurately portray the truth behind a situation people will doubt or naysay his articles more heavily. For example, in the solo vs. group debate, he states that group mechanics were a part of the disgruntled playerbase's gripes about the game. This was very inaccurate. Warhammer had made soloing very viable, in some case more beneficial than groups, and the ability to join or leave groups in pve and rvr was a solo friendly as you can make it shoud you decide that you wanted to.

You misunderstood that article. I'm sorry if it was unclear.

What I was saying was that many of the gripes about the way the game was balanced came from the fact that the group dynamic took precedence over the solo dynamic in terms of how the careers operate. I never said the game wasn't soloable. In fact, I played and enjoyed the game solo. What I WAS saying was that there was a general misconception that all careers should have been balanced to fight all other careers equally. This was not the case because the game was balanced for group combat and not individual.

FF14 is far more developed the World of Darkness..... so yah. We know its coming out in 2010, no such info for world of darkness.

I thought it was an interesting article. It was good that there weren't as many fantasy games and there were more sci-fi games listed. Sci-fi has a problem in that most of the recognizable terms are someone's IP. Everyone knows about elves, goblins, dragons, etc. You can pick up a fantasy game and get an idea of the setting quickly. It takes longer to do that in sci-fi and you can't have Klingons, Wookies, or Cylons without incuring the wrath of a horde of lawyers. Worse, all the good archtypes have already been taken. If you have an alien race focused on financial profit people are going to say "Ferengi-rip-off". If you have an ancient order of quasi-mystical guardians, Lucas will drag you into court. The only unused ideas in sci-fi are so far out there that most players can't use them.

I know I won't play every game released. Out of this list I'll probably only play Star Trek (if Cryptic avoids micropayments). Stargate Worlds seems as doomed as Stargate Infinity, otherwise I'd play that. The MMO world needs to open itself up to the non-fantasy crowd.

Fallen Earth does look like a great concept.   Check out comments made by beta testers and potential is not the word they would use now.  Its really too bad because it could have HAD potential but might be too late now.    I really hope the comments I have read about the game are wrong because it was something I was very interested in.   Who knows?  Anyone here want to say how great it is?   Thanks much.

Can we prove we're human and capable of a logical thought process?  Please?  It would mean so much to me.

Like for example, can we not assume we're that somehow a new MMO is going to break the convention of every other MMO before it and release without breaking massive amounts of promises and hype?  Not even that hard to do, let me give you some general tips on how you can accomplish this.

#1) Don't be an idiot.

#2) Don't rate a game on WHAT THE GAME DEVELOPER SAYS IT WILL BE

#3) See #1.

Seriously, it is one thing to say you would like to see something, or you think a game would be cool because its based on a concept you like, but to discuss an unreleased game on its value as a game experience is just ignorant.

Discuss the merits of a game because its set in a universe you appreciate, or because it seems to have a graphic style you like, or whatever tangible fact exists about it.

WTF, where is Mortal Online?

Mortal Online will be the best game, far better than this shit.

~Brif, MOFFL (Mortal Online Fanboi For Life)

Originally posted by Stradden

You misunderstood that article. I'm sorry if it was unclear.

What I was saying was that many of the gripes about the way the game was balanced came from the fact that the group dynamic took precedence over the solo dynamic in terms of how the careers operate. I never said the game wasn't soloable. In fact, I played and enjoyed the game solo. What I WAS saying was that there was a general misconception that all careers should have been balanced to fight all other careers equally. This was not the case because the game was balanced for group combat and not individual.

 

Regardless of specifics on what you meant by the class balance issues, you still pointed to that as what was hurting Warhammer, when in fact it was:

the game being released unfinished, morales not working, abilities not working

city sieges not working,  city siege being pve and not pvp , 4 cities not in game that were promised, 4 classes that were not in game that were promised, a crappy crafting system, casting lag (see mythic  re-defines a second) , keeps being an afterthought (because of beta-tester revolt), itemization being completely borked ( explain why my tank needs int? )  Loot was not going to be an endgame hunt for PvE but you in fact needed to PvE to get the loot to do the city raid that was once again: PVE.

Mythic lied about the product they were going to give us and giving us the exact opposite in return that was broken from the ground up. 

People complaining about class balance have been complaining about the OP'd nature /nukes of Bright Wizards,, Witch Elves taking down tanks, White Lion pets doing insane damage.  They aren't complaining about balance or design of solo vs. group mechanics,, they're complaining about Mythic creating problems by making OP'd classes, then nerfing some into the ground (see witch elf) , then changing class abilities across the board when it's just one or two classes that needed it. (see AOE). Fixing over powered or underpowered classes has nothing to do with group or solo mechanics, it's all about DPS issues.

Mythic's complete ineptitude is what killed war, not solo vs. group mechanics.

So I stand by what I said, your implication in that article was false and misleading. Your article wouldn't have lost it's credibility if you had decided more wisely to leave that implication out. It came across as very poorly researched.

Though It's just echoing what's already been said, I personally find my self questioning the credibility of this article if you don't even touch on a looming juggernaut like FFXIV. I understand we all have biases but that's like leaving SWtOR off of the list. That is to say, not mentioning FFXIV just shows incompetence. I mean seriously It's a guaranteed hit regardless of it being even half good, with the emblem it bears.

And this is without even considering the game in the context of FFXI, which has been a consistent top 10 subscription MMO for 8 years and running.

Granted I'm admittedly biased towards FFXI, which I enjoyed tremendously, in part becuase it was my first MMO, so take my words as a grain of salt. It's just I can see FFXIV harboring this potentional of being a lot of people's first MMO, really opening up the market up to a new segment of curious newcomers. Where as, a game like Aion, which looks really bad ass and I'll probably subscribe to, won't have the same marketing allure to those who aren't already part of the MMO community.

Originally posted by Tarkovsky

Though It's just echoing what's already been said, I personally find my self questioning the credibility of this article if you don't even touch on a looming juggernaut like FFXIV. I understand we all have biases but that's like leaving SWtOR off of the list. That is to say, not mentioning FFXIV just shows incompetence. I mean seriously It's a guaranteed hit regardless of it being even half good, with the emblem it bears.

And this is without even considering the game in the context of FFXI, which has been a consistent top 10 subscription MMO for 8 years and running.

Granted I'm admittedly biased towards FFXI, which I enjoyed tremendously, in part becuase it was my first MMO, so take my words as a grain of salt. It's just I can see FFXIV harboring this potentional of being a lot of people's first MMO, really opening up the market up to a new segment of curious newcomers. Where as, a game like Aion, which looks really bad ass and I'll probably subscribe to, won't have the same marketing allure to those who aren't already part of the MMO community.

I wouldn't call it incompetence. I'd call it not making my personal list. As I said at the very top of the article, that was MY list, potential is subjective and obviously FFXIV is on your personal list. Our opinions should be able to differ without resorting to insults, no?

Originally posted by Greenie

Originally posted by Stradden

You misunderstood that article. I'm sorry if it was unclear.

What I was saying was that many of the gripes about the way the game was balanced came from the fact that the group dynamic took precedence over the solo dynamic in terms of how the careers operate. I never said the game wasn't soloable. In fact, I played and enjoyed the game solo. What I WAS saying was that there was a general misconception that all careers should have been balanced to fight all other careers equally. This was not the case because the game was balanced for group combat and not individual.

 

Regardless of specifics on what you meant by the class balance issues, you still pointed to that as what was hurting Warhammer, when in fact it was:

the game being released unfinished, morales not working, abilities not working

city sieges not working,  city siege being pve and not pvp , 4 cities not in game that were promised, 4 classes that were not in game that were promised, a crappy crafting system, casting lag (see mythic  re-defines a second) , keeps being an afterthought (because of beta-tester revolt), itemization being completely borked ( explain why my tank needs int? )  Loot was not going to be an endgame hunt for PvE but you in fact needed to PvE to get the loot to do the city raid that was once again: PVE.

Mythic lied about the product they were going to give us and giving us the exact opposite in return that was broken from the ground up. 

People complaining about class balance have been complaining about the OP'd nature /nukes of Bright Wizards,, Witch Elves taking down tanks, White Lion pets doing insane damage.  They aren't complaining about balance or design of solo vs. group mechanics,, they're complaining about Mythic creating problems by making OP'd classes, then nerfing some into the ground (see witch elf) , then changing class abilities across the board when it's just one or two classes that needed it. (see AOE). Fixing over powered or underpowered classes has nothing to do with group or solo mechanics, it's all about DPS issues.

Mythic's complete ineptitude is what killed war, not solo vs. group mechanics.

So I stand by what I said, your implication in that article was false and misleading. Your article wouldn't have lost it's credibility if you had decided more wisely to leave that implication out. It came across as very poorly researched.

Sure man, you're entitled to your opinion. We should probably drop this now as it's not really the point of this thread.

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by Tarkovsky

Though It's just echoing what's already been said, I personally find my self questioning the credibility of this article if you don't even touch on a looming juggernaut like FFXIV. I understand we all have biases but that's like leaving SWtOR off of the list. That is to say, not mentioning FFXIV just shows incompetence. I mean seriously It's a guaranteed hit regardless of it being even half good, with the emblem it bears.

I wouldn't call it incompetence. I'd call it not making my personal list. As I said at the very top of the article, that was MY list, potential is subjective and obviously FFXIV is on your personal list. Our opinions should be able to differ without resorting to insults, no?

I understand that it was your personal list and regardless of where you ranked them is really of no consequence of me. Even leaving off Earthrise which is the game I"m waiting for more than any other doesn't affect me.

The only thing I wish you had done was stated exactly what you mean by potential on your personal analysis. Was is freedom to expand the universe? Freedom to create new content, classes, or economic design?  Is your view of potential subscriptions? A more clear definition of what potential was to you would have helped tremendously to see a different viewpoint or game feature about any upcoming MMO's.

Originally posted by Shreddi

Fallen Earth does look like a great concept.   Check out comments made by beta testers and potential is not the word they would use now.  Its really too bad because it could have HAD potential but might be too late now.    I really hope the comments I have read about the game are wrong because it was something I was very interested in.   Who knows?  Anyone here want to say how great it is?   Thanks much.

It is a great concept, and in a year or so, may be one of the best sandbox games on the market if it survives launch.  If it can find a core audience willing to support it, grow along with it, and accept the fact that its releasing too early (likely because they've run out of money, not because they want to stiff customers), they'll be ok.

If they get a bunch of QQ'ing 'this game is fail' fucktards that expect it to have WoW-like levels of polish upon release, they won't make it.

Originally posted by veritas_X

Originally posted by Shreddi

Fallen Earth does look like a great concept.   Check out comments made by beta testers and potential is not the word they would use now.  Its really too bad because it could have HAD potential but might be too late now.    I really hope the comments I have read about the game are wrong because it was something I was very interested in.   Who knows?  Anyone here want to say how great it is?   Thanks much.

It is a great concept, and in a year or so, may be one of the best sandbox games on the market if it survives launch.  If it can find a core audience willing to support it, grow along with it, and accept the fact that its releasing too early (likely because they've run out of money, not because they want to stiff customers), they'll be ok.

If they get a bunch of QQ'ing 'this game is fail' fucktards that expect it to have WoW-like levels of polish upon release, they won't make it.

Hail to that ! People sometimes forget even WoW wasn´t fully polished when it released, but we have to be careful, WAR would be a GREAT game if it was at least close to finished....

FFXIV will be as big or bogger than SWTOR. Square Enix has deep pockets and an incredible talent pool. You couple that with the unwavering solidarity of SE's track record of releasing quality finished titles and you have a gold title.

Jumpgate Evolution should be on the list. you seem to be a big EvE/FPS fan so this one should hit home. The arcade style of this game promises to be an awesome treat for anyone who was a fan of x-wing, Wing commander.

Black Prophesy. OMG where to start. This game will fill a serious itch I have had ever since I finished Independence War 2, Terminus, and WC Privateer. This game could be absolutely awesome if the developers don't cut corners. and the art direction is breathtaking, See the latest trailer for yourself.

These 3 I feel should Absolutely be on your list

Now on to 3 I feel never should have been considered.

You got STO in the # 2 spot? are you a nuts?......Look at who is making the game for christ sake.
Cryptic is using a slightly modified heavilly outdated engine so they can pump out a quick game for $$$$. People said they wanted ship interiors.....nogo. People said they wanted sandbox.....nogo. People said they wanted many factions at release....guess...that's right nogo. Their graphics engine is more suited for a tactical space game, not a MMO. there have been too many bad decisions for this game to ever be anything more than a bump in the road.
FYI STO is being made on a modified City of heroes engine.....GL

Eve online, What to say. It has been out for a while. and it will never be a big success as long as they have that stupid timed experience.

Stargate Worlds: It sucked from day 1 of the closed beta, I played it for months and saw that no resources were being spent on it. it was a half baked con job from the beginning.

Ya but look at the potential they could have been.....that wasn't the title or the premise of the article, you need to take in more facts to make a determination on the potential of a game. STO already burned their fanbase and used a crap engine for development. Eve has problems that ensures there will always be a barrier to many people starting out. and SGW while a very good concept is already dead, deadder than a doornail.

I understand it is your personal list, these are my personal gripes with your list ^^

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

Yes I am also one of those guys who won't play another Funcom game as long as I live, and yes it was a nice little jab at people like me. But I think there are enough people who see what that company produces that it will keep the numbers down. Kind of the same result I'd expect when Mythic releases something after the disastor that was WAR.

It wasn't a jab, it was a recognition. I recognize that this is how ome people feel. it's not how I feel, but i do absolutely respect the consumer's ability to vote with their wallets... Which is what I said. No jab in there.

Don't you mean CUSTOMER rather then consumer. A customer is a person who is valued and heard and a consumer is a person thats a  #### statistic such as the ##### ability to vote with their wallet.  Gaming companies look at people and subscriptions and a statistic rather then considering them customers. Thats why theres tons of complaints with customer service and failing mmo like Tabula Rasa....someone should clean the ##### slate.

Originally posted by green13

The enormous question mark hanging over Star Trek Online is the issue of microtransactions.

I thought Cryptic had lost their mind when they announced a subscription + microtransaction model for CO, but when I read they were considering doing the same for STO, I knew they had.

Star Trek's Federation doesn't even have money. There's no greed, everyone shares, hugs trees, is kind to small animals etc. etc. Fans of the franchise tend to yearn for that egalitarian utopia.

So naturally Cryptic thought that adding a shopping mall to the game - so real-world money has an influence on the gameworld - is a good idea...

Poor old Gene is probably turning in his grave.

Im not a fan of MT's in MMO's, in fact I loathe the idea, but from what Ive read the MT's in STO wont be game altering/unbalancing (as in bigger better guns/engines for your ship) and that anything that can be obtained from MT's can also be obtained through in-game means.

Though I suppose we will have to wait and see how this pans out.

I just hope Cryptic doesnt F it up. STO is the #1 game on my watch list and Im really hoping it will be great.

Originally posted by Nicrox

 I'm finding MMORPG too be doing alot  ' top ten ' ' why not ' or  ' under belly ' stuff and focusing on the top ten mmo's. What ever happen too the other mmo's like Roma Victor / DAoC / Ashrons Call/SWG or any other old mmo. I just found out that shadowbane got taken off line. I came here too  mmorpg to find some news about it and there was none.

Its disapponting that the focus is only given too main stream mmo's and not too the old mmos that are still going.

 

I've seen some sites doing re-reviews of the older MMOGs. I think Ten Ton Hammer had something about EQ2 and maybe Vanguard a little while ago.  So there are still sites looking back at the older MMOGs. Its a good idea, IMO, because many of those MMOs came a long way since launch and are really different games now. EQ2 is a really good example of that. I logged in after being away for over a year and the game had changed sooo much I had to really start all over to understand it all.

But this article was about MMOGs with potential, so it makes sense that's what peple would be discussing here, right? ;)

First five choices yes, last five no.

Last five choices are poorly designed and/or instanced and linear task driven tripe.

Established games that have potential but need a fresh server start and marketing help should include :

Ryzom www.ryzom.com/en/

Istaria aka Horizons. www.istaria.com/

Upcoming releases with great potential would include :

Mortal Online www.mortalonline.com/ 

Heroes of Telara www.heroesoftelara.com/

Immortal Destiny www.immortaldestiny.com/index.php

Black Prophecy blackprophecy-game.com/index.php

Originally posted by grndzro

 

Jumpgate Evolution should be on the list. you seem to be a big EvE/FPS fan so this one should hit home. The arcade style of this game promises to be an awesome treat for anyone who was a fan of x-wing, Wing commander.

Black Prophesy. OMG where to start. This game will fill a serious itch I have had ever since I finished Independence War 2, Terminus, and WC Privateer. This game could be absolutely awesome if the developers don't cut corners. and the art direction is breathtaking, See the latest trailer for yourself.

You got STO in the # 2 spot? are you a nuts?......Look at who is making the game for christ sake.
Cryptic is using a slightly modified heavilly outdated engine so they can pump out a quick game for $$$$. People said they wanted ship interiors.....nogo. People said they wanted sandbox.....nogo. People said they wanted many factions at release....guess...that's right nogo. Their graphics engine is more suited for a tactical space game, not a MMO. there have been too many bad decisions for this game to ever be anything more than a bump in the road.
FYI STO is being made on a modified City of heroes engine.....GL

Im leery of anything that NetDevil does after the Epic Fail that was Auto Assault, but we shall see if they can rectify that.

I agree with you on just why Black Prophecy wasnt on the list. It my #2 game that Im watching and so far looks amazing. However, much like NetDevil, I am leery of Reakktor. Neocron had alot of potential IMO, but just fell flat on its face. I mean the game is still running, but unless you already have an existing account you cant even play it because the Account Managment/Payment system is totally borked.

I dont entirely agree with you about STO. Yes its being build on the CoH/V Engine, but I wouldnt really call it "outdated" (its only been 5 years). Also the CoH/V Engine is very clean and flexible and since it was created by Cryptic it should be very easy for them to update it and modify it to work well with a 2010 game.

Though I do agree with you that the fact that because it is not a sandbox game with only 2 factions and no ship interiors there is the strong possibility that it could be a very linear and boring game (much like CoH/V is). Im still holding out hope that Cryptic will realize  that with a game that is based on Star Trek  "linear" is not the way to go. Unless of course the way they want to go is straight to Failville

Though as always, it is a "wait and see game" when it comes to MMOs these days

Originally posted by LynxJSA

Originally posted by ericbelser

I don't see how a slightly new version of the same old same old has any potential at all.. 

 

World of Warcraft?

Actually, I'd agree with that. Blizzard can at least 'get things done'. They have done more with PvP since Warhammer Online released than Mythic has.

I have a lot of issues with the game's overall philosophy, but in the MMORPG world competence counts for a lot.

Star Trek? Not at all true to the shows. The IP is all about a team of crew members of various skills working together. This game is about a bunch of captains tooling around in their own ships and getting together for field trips.

SWTOR? A Massively Single-player game. Story-driven (which means isolated from the actions of others). Huge amount of voice acting. In place of what? Spending resources on that rather than real content. Very mis-guided. Crafting appears will be very limited. I loved NWN, but BioWare has no MMO experience and Mythic has the stink of failure all over them now.

As someone else mentioned, it's surprising that FF XIV isn't on the list.