Which MMORPG do you think had the best leveling curve, and at which point.

By leveling curve I mean this.

In my opinion in WoW you got to max level way too quick, and in Lineage 2, before gracia patch, it took way too long to get to the max level. Which game do you think did it perfectly?

The first MMORPGs that come to mind for me are Lord of the Rings Online and Everquest 2. I never got the max level on LotRO but it seemed about right. However I think EQ2, before RoK (Timorous Deep) was perfect. I leveled a defiler to max in about 25 days. That's 25 days of play time so 25x24 hours = 600 hours. That was in a span of about 6 months maybe. There was also always something to do, so it was never boring leveling up.

And yes, I left out some games. I only mentioned fantasy-based ones. Also I know GW is not p2p, but ran out of games.

I voted for EQ2 as it is now, meaning very fast. But, and that is an important but, with the option to turn off combat experience and level from quests only and still feeling that your character develops in a good way (aa-points, equipment etc.). If you could not turn off combat experience I would say EQ2 has too fast leveling.

 I didn't even think about the AA points. That was a great aspect. Most people at 60-70 stopped combat exp for a bit and did AA points for a long time. And I heard in either now or in the newest expansion you can mentor down to any level without anyone in the group. So pick a level and go do old quests. That would make AA pretty easy, but sounds awesome.

I haven't played a level based game that I feel has gotten the curve right.

I think UO had the best curve.  Getting from 1 to 70-80ish wasn't really that hard but after that it slowed down a lot.  By the time you did get to that skill range you were strong enough to kill a lot of different things and addicted enough to want to keep going. 

Definatly UO had the best curve.. but I also liked the curve of LOTRO (when talking about lvl-based games)

 24-40 hours seems so little though. You could do that in 3 days if you had nothing else to do. I don't think it goes by age either.

You would think busy people would want quicker leveling,  but its usually people age 25+ who want 100s of hours of leveling to get to max. If you compare the populations of L2/EQ vs WoW/GW. I've yet to have a group in an MMORPG where everyone is age 30+ since EQ. I work full-time and go to college and still prefer 500+ hours to get to max level. I wonder whats the reason people differ in this?

There is something WRONG about a MMO that makes you wan't to level Swiftly!

The game itself SUCKS ASS at that point. Why have levels at all if the game is only fun at max level??

Content in such games is thin, repeating, pointless..

A player should be able to enjoy him or herself no matter whatever level he / she is.. and be full of fond memories of he's or her past levels and wanting to play them again with a different alt.

Originally posted by mortharx

A player should be able to enjoy him or herself no matter whatever level he / she is.. and be full of fond memories of he's or her past levels and wanting to play them again with a different alt.

I know what you mean. EQ was that kind of a game for me I had tons of alts and loved all of them and loved many locations in the game where I wanted to go again and again.

I'm fed up with the way levelling has been made too easy in WoW. No one runs many low level instances any more - so new players reach max level without having a clue how to play. And for any experienced MMOers play at max level is remarkably easy.

Any non-tank can start doing heroics as soon as they hit 80 (tanks take slightly longer, but not much).

A week later they can start raiding.

A few weeks later they can head off to the latest raid instance (Ulduar).

And after that, there are very very few places worth going other than Ulduar. The "world" of warcraft has become very very small.

I'm currently disillusioned by the whole "endgame" model of RPG development. Typically endgame consists of:

- Long grinds (e.g. reputation grinds, or raiding the same instance over and over for months on end).

- Social polarization, between the people who have been at max level for some time and those who have just reached max level (e.g. demanding achievements / high gear levels for heroics in wow).

- Periodically increasting the maximum level resulting in huge amounts of content being effectively thrown away.

I voted for FFXI, since it is the least endgame oriented of the titles on offer.

FFXI

and apparently the majority agrees

Originally posted by mortharx

There is something WRONG about a MMO that makes you wan't to level Swiftly!

The game itself SUCKS ASS at that point. Why have levels at all if the game is only fun at max level??

Content in such games is thin, repeating, pointless..

A player should be able to enjoy him or herself no matter whatever level he / she is.. and be full of fond memories of he's or her past levels and wanting to play them again with a different alt.

That is really the problem.  MMO are design from end to beginning.  They are also being designed like funnels where in the beginning you have more options then at the end.

double post, see below.

Its all relative to the player. I mean for me, even WoW was fine because I took me close to a year to get cap. Not because I suck but because I play games pretty casually and explore every nook and cranny, spend a lot of time helping people, and do a lot of "fluff" stuff. I also started WoW at release when it was a lot more acceptable to not be max lvl and just enjoy the ride haha.

And even FFXI didnt seem harsh to me. I guess if I truley enjoy a game it dosent matter to me.

Originally posted by Antipathy

I'm fed up with the way levelling has been made too easy in WoW. No one runs many low level instances any more - so new players reach max level without having a clue how to play. And for any experienced MMOers play at max level is remarkably easy.

 

Any non-tank can start doing heroics as soon as they hit 80 (tanks take slightly longer, but not much).

 

A week later they can start raiding.

 

A few weeks later they can head off to the latest raid instance (Ulduar).

 

And after that, there are very very few places worth going other than Ulduar. The "world" of warcraft has become very very small.

 

I'm currently disillusioned by the whole "endgame" model of RPG development. Typically endgame consists of:

 

- Long grinds (e.g. reputation grinds, or raiding the same instance over and over for months on end).

 

- Social polarization, between the people who have been at max level for some time and those who have just reached max level (e.g. demanding achievements / high gear levels for heroics in wow).

 

- Periodically increasting the maximum level resulting in huge amounts of content being effectively thrown away.

 

I voted for FFXI, since it is the least endgame oriented of the titles on offer.

You are grossly underestimating the time requirements to get into endgame content in WoW.   It is certainly much easier to progress through the various tiers of endgame content than it was in the soul-crushing days of vanilla WoW raiding but it is not that trivial.   It takes a fair bit of heroic runs to get your gear up to the level where you can comfortabley start in on raids.  And you are not going to be seriously tackling Ulduur in heroics gear so you have a month or more of Naxx runs to do first. 

Overall it is a nice pacing where you get to learn the content pretty well before you are ready to move on but don't have to grind it for months if you are competant.

Ultimately leveling is about accomplishments.  If the leveling/progression process consists of  repeating the same content or type of content over and over again then it is a bad leveling curve.  You have accomplished all that you were going to accomplish on that content and keeping you there is a stupid timesink. 

Originally posted by Torik

You are grossly underestimating the time requirements to get into endgame content in WoW.   It is certainly much easier to progress through the various tiers of endgame content than it was in the soul-crushing days of vanilla WoW raiding but it is not that trivial.   It takes a fair bit of heroic runs to get your gear up to the level where you can comfortabley start in on raids. 

No - you are grossly underestimating how effective a knowledgeable player can be.

My warlock dinged 80 recently. I only played him inbetween raiding on my main. Nonetheless, within a week of hitting 80, he was hitting 2.5-3k DPS v bosses. That's more than good enough to start on Naxx. And after 3 full Naxx clears (with other pug raids to VoA/OS thrown in, and a little PvP/crafting), a character will have good enough gear for Ulduar.

I've seen other players who have geared up even faster. E.g. I have seen a moonkin fully epicced the day after he hit 80 (he went on a guild Naxx run, and had a little honour saved to fill in gaps with PvP epics).

The only problems stopping people from getting into endgame at WoW are:

a) Skill. A lot of players are, frankly, quite useless. They lack knowledge of basic class mechanics, how to gear up and which skills to use. Until people overcome this hurdle, they won't get anywhere.

b) Effort. You won't get anywhere by sitting around Dalaran all daying chatting in the trade channel. It doesn't take much effort, but you do have to be prepared to do stuff like organise your own groups when needed.

c) Social. You won't be able to get anywhere unless you can function well in a group, and are able to convince other people that you're worth taking.

Originally posted by hean0224
To me, the best part of MMO's start at the end of the game. When finally everyone is the same level and you can get together and do quests/raids and other things. The best content should be at the end of the leveling curve in my opinion, and if it takes to long to get the the best content, then it's not worth the time to get there for me.

I think the best part of MMOs start at launch when everyone is the same level and everything is new and exciting. The content should be great all the way through the game. Putting it at the beginning or the end and having all the meat in the middle be inferior is just mean in my opinion.

Too hard to judge, but i voted FFXI anyways since the speed is entirely depend on if you and party play well or not.

FFXI was strange when it comes to leveling curve, when you and your party do well, you will know because that is when you level up very very fast in a short amount of time.

When anyone in the party does badly, you will know it too, that is when solo grinding old asian games actually start to sound fun and more productive.

Learning curve on the other hand, that is always a darn cliff you got to climb till your hands are bloody.

If the focus of the game is solely on leveling then it is not for me.

I like to explore a new world, solve quests and develop my toon.  I do not care how long it takes as long as I am having fun.

Depends on the game, they have to make even the lower levels feel like an adventure in order to expect players to go through a steep leveling curve, offering a wide variety of mobs and areas for each level range and alot of thought needs to be put into creating them. 

A game that is only based on the so called end game with little variety or fun to be had in reaching that stage, should have very rapid  skill gain, keeping the curve to high in a game like this would have me cancel my account.

For those two reasons, its hard to say what is the best leveling curve, for each game my answer could be different.

voted lineage 2. I prefer extremely long leveling goals.

Of which we'll probably never see another one in the coming years.

Originally posted by Sovrath

voted lineage 2. I prefer extremely long leveling goals.

Of which we'll probably never see another one in the coming years.

I don't know.. I'm thinking Blizzard is going hardcore with their new game.

Won't be very good business if they make another WOW now will it?

Originally posted by Venger

I haven't played a level based game that I feel has gotten the curve right.

I think UO had the best curve.  Getting from 1 to 70-80ish wasn't really that hard but after that it slowed down a lot.  By the time you did get to that skill range you were strong enough to kill a lot of different things and addicted enough to want to keep going. 

Agreed.

IMO, you should be able to get to maybe 70-80% of whatever the "max" is very quickly, like within maybe 20-30 hours play time...

Then the last 20-30% should take quite a bit longer.

Here is the catch though.

Start the "end game" kind of stuff when you get to the 70-80% point so you have meaningful stuff to do while you work towards max, not save the "good" stuff till max and that is it.

That'd be perfect to me.

Originally posted by mortharx

Originally posted by Sovrath

voted lineage 2. I prefer extremely long leveling goals.

Of which we'll probably never see another one in the coming years.

I don't know.. I'm thinking Blizzard is going hardcore with their new game.

Won't be very good business if they make another WOW now will it?

I can't see them going hardcore. They will just make another accessible game but with a different theme such as sci-fi or the like.