Originally posted by twrule

Originally posted by ZorakGhostal

Just wondering, is SWG crafting still any good? everyone seems to talk about it in the past tense as if it ended.

About reciepes... I'm not really a fan of these, takes the element of creativity and discovery out of it. Just grind rep for the plan and plug the stuff in and boom! magically it appears... I'd rather see a system where you could plug your own choices of mats in and see what you could come up with.

 

You've much to learn, young padawan.

You see:    a long time ago, in a game far far away...

The community of SWG lived in peaceful bliss, having the most unique and creative MMO on the market.

Until one day, the evil lord Darth SOE came and used force-WoW-clone on the game, making it a pale shadow of it's former self.

It was as if millions of players cried out, and then were suddenly silenced.

Now, we speak of this dark time in only whispers, calling it the "CU" and "NGE".

Yearning for those peaceful days long past, a brave few players have stepped forth hoping to one day bring balance to the industry.

The Force is strong in this post.

thats nice, so is the crafting any good in SWG today? I'm thinking about picking it up since it's cheap now.

Originally posted by CactusmanX

My general views of crafting.

I don't want to have to sacrifice combat abilities for crafting, meaning I don't want to have to make room in a build for crafting abilities, but I do not want players to be able to learn everything either.  Crafting should be like a proffession you choose in combination with whatever abilities you want, that way everybody can both craft and fight.

I agree combat abilities and crafting abilities should be separate, but I would like to see more economic focused characters.  By that I mean there should be characters whose focus is economic prowess instead of everyone simply are fighters who can craft.

Resource gathering should be done while adventuring.  Meaning instead of going to a resource node and hitting a rock with a pick or some such.  You instead salvage metal from enemies and objects you find in your adventures.

I don't like having to make things over and over again to level crafting, that isn't fun.  I would rather do jobs, ie quests, to raise my rank in the profession I choose, which lets me use new abilities and tools.

I think a combination of all this is a better solution.  Sometimes crafting items can be fun even if you do it repeatedly.  It depend on whether those items are just excessive luggage or if they are useful/valuable, but it should not be the only way to skill up would be a nice touch as you have said.

Recipes shouldn't be for an entire product, just parts which you can use to then make an item with different effects depending on the items used. Plus recipes can be found all over the place, from factions, job places, mobs, bosses and vendors.

Plenty of games have this, but usually recipe for the final product still exist, but you can also craft items from raw materials in order to make components.  Aion also have most of what you speak of from my beta testing experience.

Crafting should coexist with dropped and vendor items.  Plus there should be no best, just different thay way you more options, plus clothing should be just for looks, more fun that way.  Vendor items should be generic, crafted is custom and dropped is rare.

 

 

 

Originally posted by ZorakGhostal

thats nice, so is the crafting any good in SWG today? I'm thinking about picking it up since it's cheap now.

With the NGE they speak of, every crafting profession was effectively removed from the game. (along with everything else that made it worth playing). Since then, some token elements of old systems have been modified and reintroduced.

So, no no it is not any good now.

Originally posted by ZorakGhostal

thats nice, so is the crafting any good in SWG today? I'm thinking about picking it up since it's cheap now.

Have you ever played SWG? if not best is to discover/explore that option yourself cause if not played back then you will NOT know what is missing or is changed like many of us do. Just keep in mind the crafting in SWG is still there, the main problem these day's which is not only with SWG is for the main part the community that is into these games, as many seem to want it al and want it now, for those people I will suggest NOT to play SWG as SWG is still and always was a game for the more patient type of gamer as those unpatient have given us the NGE cause unfortunaly SOE listened far to much at the whiners on the forum bakc then that SOE had to make changes, unfortunaly the forums trolls from back then already did not care much about the game so the whole NGE backfired on SOE. and on most of us who really enjoyed the game back then.

Oh and the reply above me said that crafting was removed, again if you do not know the game you will NOT miss things like Ranger as you have no experiance with it, same with Doc, both profession where awesome and I enjoyed every bit of them, but again those who havn't played back then still got more options in SWG then many other so called A title MMORPG.

Also like to ad that when ever I see someone say WOW-clone, the only thing I see is a person who has a very limited playstyle for that person to see other games as WOW-clone's as I have yet to encounter a MMORPG that is in fact a WOW clone, sorry have not seen one in all the years of MMORPG or gaming other then people who seem to have a limited playstyle.

Originally posted by Reklaw

Originally posted by ZorakGhostal

thats nice, so is the crafting any good in SWG today? I'm thinking about picking it up since it's cheap now.

 

Have you ever played SWG? if not best is to discover/explore that option yourself cause if not played back then you will NOT know what is missing or is changed like many of us do. Just keep in mind the crafting in SWG is still there, the main problem these day's which is not only with SWG is for the main part the community that is into these games, as many seem to want it al and want it now, for those people I will suggest NOT to play SWG as SWG is still and always was a game for the more patient type of gamer as those unpatient have given us the NGE cause unfortunaly SOE listened far to much at the whiners on the forum bakc then that SOE had to make changes, unfortunaly the forums trolls from back then already did not care much about the game so the whole NGE backfired on SOE. and on most of us who really enjoyed the game back then.

Oh and the reply above me said that crafting was removed, again if you do not know the game you will NOT miss things like Ranger as you have no experiance with it, same with Doc, both profession where awesome and I enjoyed every bit of them, but again those who havn't played back then still got more options in SWG then many other so called A title MMORPG.

Also like to ad that when ever I see someone say WOW-clone, the only thing I see is a person who has a very limited playstyle for that person to see other games as WOW-clone's as I have yet to encounter a MMORPG that is in fact a WOW clone, sorry have not seen one in all the years of MMORPG or gaming other then people who seem to have a limited playstyle.

 

lol, excuse my "limited playstyle".  I was just using the term as a means of describing the approach SOE took.  During the NGE and CU, they clearly sought to copy as many aspects of WoW as they could and put them into SWG.  It was made to have a very similar battle system, level/class progression setup, etc.  Of course they aren't exactly the same; in fact, WoW is the much better game now.  Atleast it doesn't confine all crafting to a single separate class.

And you'd do well to relax and get a sense of humor lol.

The old SWG crafting system was wonderful. It was fun and complex at the same time and had a suprisingly low amount of grind. I would try out ANY MMO that has a variation of that system with sufficient complexity.

When I say complex I mean something like this:

A sword is crafted by combining a hilt, a blade and several powerups.

The quality of a hilt/blade is determined by the materials used in the production process (blacksmith) and will result in different basic stats (dmg, speed, durability, ...) and slots (0-10). The process allows the crafter to influence the stats in a certain way, but its risky (experimentation system, depends on crafters skills). You will need a geologist to find and extract metals from the ground and a wood cutter to get the wood for production.

After hilt + blade have been created you have to combine them with the powerups.

The powerups are created by specialised mage-crafters using magical ingredients/gems. A powerup could be: "Speed Boost", "Fire Damage", or "Curse Enemy: Weakness". I imagine there to be LOTS of powerups.

Depending on the mats the blade could have lets say 7 slots. You can add any combination of powerups to create a uniqe effect/weapon. The cumulative boost of identical powerups should be non-linear (bell-shaped curve with a spike at 5 powerups). To make things more complicated certain powerup combinations could have an extra effect. Fire + Wind could give the sword a fireball skill. Fire + Ice though would cancel each other out.

In effect you have several people involved in creating a single item using a complex harvesting/experimentation/combination system. Its like having combinable building blocks on every level of creation.

My recipe/success rate comments:

1. Most recipes gained normally (gold+trainer)

2. Raid/dungeon recipe drops resulting in gear which is slightly superior to raid/dungeon gear drops. (Alternatively these could be trainer-bought recipes requiring materials only harvestable in raid/dungeons.)

3. Success rate always 100%. If you collected the materials, you're going to create something with them.

4. Results vary slightly. Creating a Fire Sword will always yield a sword with fire damage, but the exact stats of the weapon will vary each time one is created due to randomness and material quality, and slightly influenced by crafter skill.

Neat survey, personally it depends on the game for me. In something like Horizons or SWG I crafted a lot, was part of the fun for me. In EQ2 probably 25% or so, was a sideline when I was bored. AoC and WAR, haven't really tried them, not because they haven't appealed, havent really tried so not gonna slam them, just more playing them for the combat...WoW I did them as and when I wanted an item from them for a specific purpose.

Problem for me in the later games is everyone can tradeskill pretty easy apart from the ultra grind stuff, so hard to make a niche for yourself as a crafter. heh, I think the fact it was long and boring in games like SWG or Horizons meant that it filtered out casual crafters so those who did really dedicate to it did feel unique and could make a name for themselves...that seems harder in the most recent generation of games...

just filled it in... great survey :)

I've heard a lot of positive things about SWG crafting, however I never played SWG. I'll say the best for me thus far out of all the MMO's I've played is EQII crafting. That is to say I like the 'current' system that is in place, the original crafting system was a bit tedious.

Outstanding survey.

Like many others, I'm of the school of thought that adheres to " If you're going to put crafting in a game at all, where players have to bake off hous of account time / game play on non adventuring crafting, then by God the stuff made had BETTER rival (and exceed) World / Raid loot drops! "

In my perfect MMORPG, Raid bosses and dungeon mini bosses might indeed drop equipment loot that is really really good. It should beat out the "basic", easily craftable equipment pieces that are used for learning the skill. But the best equipment should come solely from crafting, and it shouldn't be restricted to End Game, Top of the Skill crafted items. It should be available at various tiers of adventurer levels, and it should only require uncommon material requirements. With Endgame Top Crafted Items requiring dungeon gained drops.

Players who want to have fun adventuring in a game and never desire to interact with other players for their equipment needs should be able to do so, through NPC merchant wares, quest rewards, and rare / uncommon loot drops. Players who want to interact with others for dungeon delving, serious PvP, and Raiding of any sort should sure as HELL be FORCED to interact with other players in meeting the needs of those activities. That's if they want to be taken seriously and make the effort to have the best gear.

World of Warcraft comes close. Could you imagine how cool the game could have been if Purple drops could ONLY come from crafting, and were available at different tiers through levels? Or perhaps just Blues of superior Item Level coming only from crafting, while blues of lesser Item Level were available from hard quest chains and dungeon drops? Always one step behind of the crafters?

That would have been incredible, at least to me.

Originally posted by BuzWeaver

I've heard a lot of positive things about SWG crafting, however I never played SWG. I'll say the best for me thus far out of all the MMO's I've played is EQII crafting. That is to say I like the 'current' system that is in place, the original crafting system was a bit tedious.

The original crafting system in EQ2 was bordering on sheer insanity with the amount of time it took.  I wouldn't have minded so much if it didn't make trying to buy anything rather than make it yourself an absolute joke because so few people would bother with crafting that prices to purchase anything were ridiculous.

The revamped system is a lot better.  Still a bit much to me but compared to what it used to be it's a godsend heh

Originally posted by ZorakGhostal

Just wondering, is SWG crafting still any good? everyone seems to talk about it in the past tense as if it ended.

The crafting in SWG is still better than most.

---

Originally posted by Cailieg

....I just haven't found a game to fit my inner crafter.

---

This is what inspired me to create a survey :-)

I have to admit reading all your posts have made me regret not picking up SWG, Vanguard had it right in so far as creating a whole sphere of game play just for crafting but sadly the engine lets that game down.

I think wherever I posted the link the respondants would still be those who enjoy crafting while the majority who feel 'meh' about it would simply pass it by, so yes it is very likely that the results will reflect the crafting community rather than the gaming community, perhaps a series of simple yes/no polls across forums would reflect more accurately the importance of crafting amongst the wider game population ?

Nevertheless the results make for some interesting (if slightly predictable) reading, the current tally stands at just over 130, I'm surprised how fast the numbers have risen, I would guess I will be able to post the results from 200 responses mid week.

Thankyou all again for the support and for the interesting thoughts you've shared about crafting.

I guess I would be a 'hardcore' crafter in my perfect MMO, multi stage processes that require skill rather than the ability to just click craft while you watch TV, long involved crafting sopecific quests, materials gathered in hard to reach places with an element of risk and the finished result should reflect the effort, I'd like to create items that would let me sit back, with a big smile and a sense of pride in what I've achieved, crafting should offer a whole world of experience, it's a shame it so rarely does.
 

I don't think you will get the full picture in this survey.

People that enjoy crafting will probably do your survey, while anyone without any interest in it won't participate.

I am one of them, my first thought was uninteresting and wanted to move on but well i wanted to give you my impression.

liked the survey hope to see the result soon

What's the current count of survey responses?

Current count is very good, I'm quietly optimistic I'll reach 200 replies within the next couple of days :) 

Crafting is a good way to take a break from questing/grinding or if you're on off peak hours.  Making money is always nice too!

Very nice and fun to do survey. I think crafting should be an imporant part to any MMO. It gives players with little time something to do. Aion has a nice system as you get XP for crafting =))

A few things that bug me about crafting (mostly WoW):

Everybody can do it, and everybody does do it. In Lotro the AH was swamped with identical armor and items, tens of each.

You need to do MANY to skill up. Makes for even more crap floating around the game, or money lost when sold to vendors.

The process in itself is boring, just push and wait.

To be able to continue crafting you need to level up your skill to fight. Does that make any sense?

The materials are more valuable than the finished product, with a very few exceptions.

I want a game where crafters are crafters and fighters are fighters. Make crafters 30% faster at running and they won't have to be able to fight at all. Keep the crowd from crafting crap and let the genuine crafters enjoy a crafting system that needs brains. There you have my perfect MMORPG.

Vanguard dealt with most of these issues. You can be whatever level crafter and lvl 1 adventurer. You pick up "work orders" from crafting npc's and make a few items and hand them back to the order giver for some rewards/coin, no need to try and sell your junk. There is a sort of "mini-game" for making an item, not just push one button and wait. It's pretty fun, but it's also Vanguard... you might want to check it out though.

Surprising no one mentioned EVE crafting.

In EVE there's more than just crafting. You can build ships, you can build components for ships, you can be a miner, you can be a freighter. Hauling is always fun, you can be a trader on the market. There were people who just gathered, there were people who made ammo or who set up player owned station.

What EVE has is regional markets, where you can't see what is in one market unless you have an Alt there, and this allowed for people to harvest mats cheaply (I did) and move them to the main central hub and sell them for more expensive (I did).

I used to purchase billions of refinables/minerals from my 0.0 space and sell it in the main central hub. It was great.

EVE's crafting is pretty straightforward, have X + Y + Z and blueprint and bam there you go. I liked how people made copies of blueprints to sell. I used to buy them and i even had a vendor that I went to specifically for blueprint copies. People also would order ships from me tier 1 only. I used to also take orders for tier 2 ships and then just ship them down from the main central hub. A corp mate ran a business of shipping from main central hub down to our region. He'd make 81 million isk each voyage (1 way) not bad. Too bad the cost of each jump may have been 10m and the time investment and the ship he used cost 6 billion isk. Lots of investment there.

About 3 or 4 people made capital ships in my alliance and I was the first or second person to make "a new ship" down in my 0.0 space when it first came out :).

The problem in EVE was that every crafter was the same, however, it was so regional, it didn't really matter. Lots of corps had in-corp crafters that would make things cheaply for them, while I sold to everyone.

I do wish I had played SWG when it first came out, I think i would have loved it. I tried the trial a few weeks back but something about it prevented me from subbing. However, I am hooked to Runes of Magic . . . go figure. I figured early on crafting was stupid, the way it is setup mandates that it can't possibly function and be efficient.

Cryomatrix