Before someone going to hate me, i already pre-order Aion: collector edition like a month ago. 4 of my real life friend going to play with me,  I definitely going to play Aion.

Is Aion about gear or skill? Old school mmo it was really about gear, so who ever got good gear determine the winner. But after i have played Aoc(age of conan) i have different viewing that mmo is about skill, mostly who got the skill will win the duel. But of course you can arguing that AION or AOC is not 1vs1 it is about grouping. In fact they are a grouping game, not really a 1vs1.

Anyway back to the question which i still interest and want to know. I saw some of aion video most of the fighting between melee vs melee. They usually fighting in face to face in standstill position, therefore they barely move around like in AOC. So is Aion really a gear or skill type of game.

Both, but I think/hope this game is more than about finding your epeen from duels. The PvPvE is what I am personally looking forward to.

Aion uses a RNG system to determine success of skills used, so it's a little bit of a luck thing, mixed with the ability needed to use various skills when the situation calls for. On top of that, gear from using abyss points and rankings also give a slight edge. Now times this by 5 ( you + 4 friends) and you have a system not different from any other combat system used by MMOs........

It's always been about a mix of skill, luck and gear. This is the very nature of MMO combat.......

it depending on which class you are playing. Based on what i know and experienced, Ranger class definatly requires some skills on Keyboard management+mouse micro control. On the other hand, the Templor class is more depending on gears.

 This is taken from another poster on these forums:

"To gear up you with best one, it will take about 5-6months while playing 10hours for every day.
If you decided to get best gear there is huge unbelievable gear grinding"

It's basically the old honour rank system that WoW used and that's the biggest turn off about this game for me. Gear at high levels plays an important part and you will get destroyed by anyone using it, so to remain competitive you will also have to grind for countless hours. I dread what it will be like for new players after a few months, when they come up against the high ranked players.

Well, the biggest factor is probably tactics. When you enter a fight, and use a bad or simply the wrong tactic because you havent really done your homework on your own class, or your opponents, you will lose. Badly, too.

Tactics is considered part of the term "skill" by some, and something else by others, but in Aion more than in most other games, you use long strings of different skills, not the same few over and over. That, coupled with semi-long instead of huge cooldowns, means you often have to decide when to use your next stun, how to bridge the 10 seconds between stun shots and so on.

I would say Gear and raw twitchy skill are similar, in part dependant on class. Rangers are quite reliant on the player being dextrous and quick in reflexes, and able to move well. Templars, on the other hand, are less hectic, and will emphasize gear a bit more, especially crit rating.

Some tactics only become viable when you pass a certain level of gear, especially the infamous crit builds.

Aion PvP is not as much about pimping out your main damage skills as WoW for example. You dont min/max your 2-3 primary skills, and just use the rest for utility. You are using a much larger range of skills on most classes, and IMO your gear is used to boost your tactical approach to combat, not the individual skills as much.

I would say 50% skill, strategy, teamwork and 50% gear.  Based on all the infro and beta experience.  This is PvP btw.

Bad equipment + good skill = Can still win against player with good equipment and good skill. Just disadvantage.

Bad equipment + bad skill = You are screwed either way.

Good equipment + bad skill = You are more likely to lose than win, but you have the raw stat advantage.

Good equipment + good skill = Time for some competitive PvP.

This is if levels are equal or close, and don't take "good" and "bad" to the extreme, just think "better" and "worse".

Most of the time melee vs melee does not move is because there are no reasons to move.  There are movement bonuses, but they also have drawbacks.  One stat goes up, the other goes down, and melee lose dps when they move out of range.  Moving is perfectly fine though,  as a tactical choice.  If an Assassin (dagger) fight a gladiator (any weapon longer than dagger) 1 vs 1 usually the assassin would want to move as little as possible due to weapon's range, but there are positional advantage for assassin at points in the fight when it is better to move.

Basically moving is tactical and somtime have consequences, knowing when to move and fly is part of player skill.

If just a friendly duel between two melee and making videos, sometimes not moving might be better, but depends.

Just be a cleric, you won't need much skill to win, justa couple of clicks and youre there.

Skill for gamers, gear for continued subscriptions.

LoL, preorder.

Originally posted by Ramonski7

Aion uses a RNG system to determine success of skills used, so it's a little bit of a luck thing, mixed with the ability needed to use various skills when the situation calls for. On top of that, gear from using abyss points and rankings also give a slight edge. Now times this by 5 ( you + 4 friends) and you have a system not different from any other combat system used by MMOs........

 

It's always been about a mix of skill, luck and gear. This is the very nature of MMO combat.......

Luck will always be there, but can be reduced through understanding the sytem.

Some skill's randomness can be reduced by raising certain stat by customization.  The skills are not cut and dry %, at least not all the time.

I would say it's 50/50, but if you got the best gear and don't have skill, then you would lose. This game isn't about skill mashing at all. Doing that is still going to have you lose the fight vs a skilled person.

Originally posted by Raztor

 This is taken from another poster on these forums:

 

"To gear up you with best one, it will take about 5-6months while playing 10hours for every day.
If you decided to get best gear there is huge unbelievable gear grinding"

 

It's basically the old honour rank system that WoW used and that's the biggest turn off about this game for me. Gear at high levels plays an important part and you will get destroyed by anyone using it, so to remain competitive you will also have to grind for countless hours. I dread what it will be like for new players after a few months, when they come up against the high ranked players.

The game is not designed around 1v1 its designed around group pvp. So if you are soloing and getting your ass handed to you, well you have only yourself to blame.

Originally posted by Raztor

It's basically the old honour rank system that WoW used and that's the biggest turn off about this game for me.

Can you provide a source for this? The original WoW honour system is probably the worst and unhealthiest PvP advancement system ever conceived. I find it hard to believe anyone would copy it. They completely revised that system for good reason.

Originally posted by Raztor

 This is taken from another poster on these forums:

 

"To gear up you with best one, it will take about 5-6months while playing 10hours for every day.
If you decided to get best gear there is huge unbelievable gear grinding"

 

It's basically the old honour rank system that WoW used and that's the biggest turn off about this game for me. Gear at high levels plays an important part and you will get destroyed by anyone using it, so to remain competitive you will also have to grind for countless hours. I dread what it will be like for new players after a few months, when they come up against the high ranked players.

This is what concerns me. Everyone knows that MMO's are played heavily by a good portion of it's subscribers. Given that, it won't be long before everyone knows the right tactics to employ to be the most successful. Likewise, I am sure if Aion is about combo attacks, there will be the "best" ones and everything else is slightly sub-par stat-wise and therefore considered 'trash' by the hardcore types. Look at Eve gear loadouts for an example. Given that, the tactics/combo skill is prerequisite to not getting owned every time. What does that leave? 6 month grindy gear.

The flip side is that the beta testers (of which I am not, I did my share of closed beta stuff, even) seem to leave the impression that some characters have to move around a lot to be effective and others don't. The issue with this comes when they receive the torrent of whining from some portion of the player base. This always happens with any game and I don't consider that much of a debate-able point (look on any of the forums here). How do they tweak the damage ratings for the highly keyboard-happy class? So that it's roughly equivalent 1 vs 1 for the 80th percentile? What about the top 20 percent? They end up owning pretty badly, etc.

The basic rule number one is: people are stupid. They don't work in teams well (there goes the group tactics). WAR has shown us that they still do act as a mob and follow each other around if they're making some progress. Many times that works as a decent alternative (until they actually meet an organized, tactical group). You end up with one side usually owning the other, etc. The losing side dissolves and goes elsewhere.

Anyways, I haven't played Aion for myself yet, but I am interested and curious. I am not trying to bash it; just trying to evoke thoughtful conversation, etc.

Originally posted by Aznmask

Before someone going to hate me, i already pre-order Aion: collector edition like a month ago. 4 of my real life friend going to play with me,  I definitely going to play Aion.

Is Aion about gear or skill? Old school mmo it was really about gear, so who ever got good gear determine the winner. But after i have played Aoc(age of conan) i have different viewing that mmo is about skill, mostly who got the skill will win the duel. But of course you can arguing that AION or AOC is not 1vs1 it is about grouping. In fact they are a grouping game, not really a 1vs1.

Anyway back to the question which i still interest and want to know. I saw some of aion video most of the fighting between melee vs melee. They usually fighting in face to face in standstill position, therefore they barely move around like in AOC. So is Aion really a gear or skill type of game.

 

You'll never find a mmoRPG fully skill dependant. Aion focused much more on it than the general MMO though. 

PvP battles don't end in seconds because you won't be 2-shotting people at your own level even with a huge equipment difference, this is the key to giving players a chance for those with skill to shine, because it's not about getting a critical off your main skill and there goes 3/4 of the enemy health. And gear doesn't seem to that important, the difference between level 50 "low-end" items and "high-end" isn't THAT great, but it's there for us to seek perfection.

The PvP in this game plays more like Guild Wars, a skilled group will be hard to kill if you're just a noob zerg. And skill is not about the right skill rotation, there's no global cooldown if I'm not mistaken and many skills have circunstancial uses. Also since it's like GW, teamwork and positioning plays a huge factor.

There are a few things about Aion that need to get flushed out...

1) Gear - Theres a minimum of 2 sets of gear at the moment. You have a PvP set which is purchased by killing other players. You also have a crafted set which is made by getting crits on crafting. I'm not absolutely sure, but there might even be a PvE set that drops of mobs. That would be 3 different sets of possible gear, all attainable with different avenues of approach.

2) Skill - There are two forms of player skill in MMO's. Theres the obvious twitched based skills seen most in FPS and FPSMMO's which Aion does not have. Then theres the strategic skill which involves a multitude of variables which about 95% of MMO's utilize, ranging from gear choice, consumables ( scrolls, potions and other items ) and last but not least player choice of skills and when best to use them in any situations.

3) Aion utilizes a NPC race to add flavor to it's PvP, thus making a new PvPvE trio of yumminess. Zerging the enemy in the Abyss with 2 or even 3 to 1 ratio? Guess what... game picks up on this and don't be surprised if the zerging side finds their newly conquered towers, keeps or other places of interest under attack by the NPC race.

To be completely honest, Aion really isn't all that innovative aside from PvPvE. Why in the hell would anyone buy it? For me its quite simple and thats PvP with a purpose. Captured structures that make a difference in the ongoing battle. Player kills that render something other than insults and epeen retardedness.

I choose Aion because everyone else ( except Eve Online and Dark Age of Camelot ) can't seem to figure out how to make a PvP game.

Originally posted by WizardBlack

Originally posted by Raztor

 This is taken from another poster on these forums:

 

"To gear up you with best one, it will take about 5-6months while playing 10hours for every day.
If you decided to get best gear there is huge unbelievable gear grinding"

 

It's basically the old honour rank system that WoW used and that's the biggest turn off about this game for me. Gear at high levels plays an important part and you will get destroyed by anyone using it, so to remain competitive you will also have to grind for countless hours. I dread what it will be like for new players after a few months, when they come up against the high ranked players.

 

This is what concerns me. Everyone knows that MMO's are played heavily by a good portion of it's subscribers. Given that, it won't be long before everyone knows the right tactics to employ to be the most successful. Likewise, I am sure if Aion is about combo attacks, there will be the "best" ones and everything else is slightly sub-par stat-wise and therefore considered 'trash' by the hardcore types. Look at Eve gear loadouts for an example. Given that, the tactics/combo skill is prerequisite to not getting owned every time. What does that leave? 6 month grindy gear.

The flip side is that the beta testers (of which I am not, I did my share of closed beta stuff, even) seem to leave the impression that some characters have to move around a lot to be effective and others don't. The issue with this comes when they receive the torrent of whining from some portion of the player base. This always happens with any game and I don't consider that much of a debate-able point (look on any of the forums here). How do they tweak the damage ratings for the highly keyboard-happy class? So that it's roughly equivalent 1 vs 1 for the 80th percentile? What about the top 20 percent? They end up owning pretty badly, etc.

The basic rule number one is: people are stupid. They don't work in teams well (there goes the group tactics). WAR has shown us that they still do act as a mob and follow each other around if they're making some progress. Many times that works as a decent alternative (until they actually meet an organized, tactical group). You end up with one side usually owning the other, etc. The losing side dissolves and goes elsewhere.

Anyways, I haven't played Aion for myself yet, but I am interested and curious. I am not trying to bash it; just trying to evoke thoughtful conversation, etc.

The people are stupid comment would also go along way to explain why so many people solo, which ive seen many threads about latelely. You are correct about the mob mentality of BG and RVR groups. Warhammer is just one  example, WOW BG's was pretty much the same, kill until you die respawn and go again.

Originally posted by WizardBlack

Originally posted by Raztor

 This is taken from another poster on these forums:

 

"To gear up you with best one, it will take about 5-6months while playing 10hours for every day.
If you decided to get best gear there is huge unbelievable gear grinding"

 

It's basically the old honour rank system that WoW used and that's the biggest turn off about this game for me. Gear at high levels plays an important part and you will get destroyed by anyone using it, so to remain competitive you will also have to grind for countless hours. I dread what it will be like for new players after a few months, when they come up against the high ranked players.

 

This is what concerns me. Everyone knows that MMO's are played heavily by a good portion of it's subscribers. Given that, it won't be long before everyone knows the right tactics to employ to be the most successful. Likewise, I am sure if Aion is about combo attacks, there will be the "best" ones and everything else is slightly sub-par stat-wise and therefore considered 'trash' by the hardcore types. Look at Eve gear loadouts for an example. Given that, the tactics/combo skill is prerequisite to not getting owned every time. What does that leave? 6 month grindy gear.

The flip side is that the beta testers (of which I am not, I did my share of closed beta stuff, even) seem to leave the impression that some characters have to move around a lot to be effective and others don't. The issue with this comes when they receive the torrent of whining from some portion of the player base. This always happens with any game and I don't consider that much of a debate-able point (look on any of the forums here). How do they tweak the damage ratings for the highly keyboard-happy class? So that it's roughly equivalent 1 vs 1 for the 80th percentile? What about the top 20 percent? They end up owning pretty badly, etc.

The basic rule number one is: people are stupid. They don't work in teams well (there goes the group tactics). WAR has shown us that they still do act as a mob and follow each other around if they're making some progress. Many times that works as a decent alternative (until they actually meet an organized, tactical group). You end up with one side usually owning the other, etc. The losing side dissolves and goes elsewhere.

Anyways, I haven't played Aion for myself yet, but I am interested and curious. I am not trying to bash it; just trying to evoke thoughtful conversation, etc.

well different combos would be best used for certain classes your matched up against. some combos are defensive ,duration fights and burst dmg. like on my ranger the one combo splits into different attacks for the second combo, poison Dot or a direct damage ability i can use on the run. in the long run the dot does more dmg but if i was close to dead i wouldn't want to stop and shoot the poison shot it has a casting time. or on my templar his combo splits to direct dmg or a damage absorb shield, some of his abilites are reactive and only able to use them after he shield blocks and even those reactive abilities have combos that branch out. one was a stun other was an attack that is also like a taunt, the taunt/attack did more dmg than the stun. its not that people will use the same abilities all teh time, some times one will be better used over another

This is what concerns me. Everyone knows that MMO's are played heavily by a good portion of it's subscribers. Given that, it won't be long before everyone knows the right tactics to employ to be the most successful. Likewise, I am sure if Aion is about combo attacks, there will be the "best" ones and everything else is slightly sub-par stat-wise and therefore considered 'trash' by the hardcore types. Look at Eve gear loadouts for an example. Given that, the tactics/combo skill is prerequisite to not getting owned every time. What does that leave? 6 month grindy gear.

Not really the way it works.  You choose how you want to branch your combo based upon the effect you want it to have at particular point in the fight.  So if the mage is winding up a big meteor strike, maybe instead of branching your combo into a pure DPS boost it would be more intelligent to branch it into something that interrupts the cast.  Or if that templar pulls out a shield, branch it into something that reduces armor.  Or instead of using a long animation heavy attack combo against that kiting ranger, use shorter faster animation type combos so you don't lose so much ground waiting for animation sequences to finish.

Originally posted by Axxar

Originally posted by Raztor

It's basically the old honour rank system that WoW used and that's the biggest turn off about this game for me.

Can you provide a source for this? The original WoW honour system is probably the worst and unhealthiest PvP advancement system ever conceived. I find it hard to believe anyone would copy it. They completely revised that system for good reason.

It's not like the old WoW based ranking system.  That system didn't reward the skill of the player, it rewarded the time the player dedicated to the game.  In Aion, you don't lose lose rank/points by some ridiculous degradation system.. you lose rank/points by getting killed.  The better you are, the more quickly you'll be able to obtain and retain Abyss Points.  Also, the more points you have, the harder it becomes to retain those points.

Of course, a good player with 4 hours a  day to dedicate to gaming will get gear twice as fast as a like skilled-player with 2 hours a day.  

The WoW system was also a plateau system, meaning you had to obtain a particular rank to qualify for a tier of gear.  So once you made rank 14 (or whatever) your gear levels skyrocketed as you obtained that gear in bunches.  In Aion, you are constantly working towards individual pieces, making your power scale up much more gradually, and giving you much easier goals to work towards.

Also, the closer you get to gear cap... the less difference the gear makes.  While going from green/blue regular gear to getting a full set of +5 Abyss gear might take 6 months(or more), getting a full set of +10 Abyss gear will take significantly longer but the power scaling falls off dramatically.

Well your going to find out is more luck than anything else. Just wait till you get in your 40's.. you would THINK skill, gear would come in to play.. Aion is so much like a Free2play game. NCSoft put more time into the TOON looks than anything else. Dont get me wrong PVP is fun but in Aion any 10y can do it.. it WAY WAY to simple..

Originally posted by comerb

It's not like the old WoW based ranking system.

Thank goodness.

Originally posted by Zeblade

Well your going to find out is more luck than anything else. Just wait till you get in your 40's.. you would THINK skill, gear would come in to play.. Aion is so much like a Free2play game. NCSoft put more time into the TOON looks than anything else. Dont get me wrong PVP is fun but in Aion any 10y can do it.. it WAY WAY to simple..

Wow... just wow. No, 10 yr olds can't pvp, sure they can mash buttons and try but... thats such a troll post.

Skill is a huge factor in PvP because tactics on how your formation is and being able to go into a fight with the right strategy is huge. Go troll somewhere else.

I just want ask someone who think if this game if skill or gear base. I mean you dont have to compare this to WOW.

Anyway this is what i thought about MMO. First i think every MMO require some skill to play, no matter in duel, group, raid, siege, etc... So basically skill can earn from experience so the more you play on your class, the more you know about.

Regarding if AION is skill or gear base type of game. I already got a feeling it is more about gear base than skill. Why then you have to think about the game's system of crafting, PVP, PVE.

Isn't you can only master ONE profession even you can learn every profession. Which you can craft Lv45+ gear.. (correct me if i'm wrong)

Secondly you can earn those Abyss point by kill your opposite race or their npc guard. So you can earn ranking, and trade your Abyss point for gears.

My final thought: i think this system is okay for those ppl who dont mind play a mmo for 2-3yr+. That is the purpose of MMO, to waste time.