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7/22/09 4:32:28 PM#51
Originally posted by Dana Yeah, that was my reason for the 5.8 as well.
AoC was scored a 6... I just can't see DarkFall legitimately scoring better than that.
A random note... AoC was scored that back during the height of its angst. We're actually re-reviewing it this Thursday (won't spoil that). And for the record, don't read too much into this. I do not know what the final score is going to be on DF yet ;)
Hopefully the person doing the review is basing it on post patch NA server client, played UO pre-trammel, Darktide in AC1 or one of the Zek EQ servers, and will be giving the game the time a game that goes way beyond a theme park MMO deserves. If your reviewer meets that criteria, I look forward to the review. If not, well, I fear the game may not get the understanding and attention it deserves. Thank you -Other |
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7/22/09 4:45:28 PM#52
Originally posted by otheron3
A random note... AoC was scored that back during the height of its angst. We're actually re-reviewing it this Thursday (won't spoil that). And for the record, don't read too much into this. I do not know what the final score is going to be on DF yet ;)
Hopefully the person doing the review is basing it on post patch NA server client, played UO pre-trammel, Darktide in AC1 or one of the Zek EQ servers, and will be giving the game the time a game that goes way beyond a theme park MMO deserves. If your reviewer meets that criteria, I look forward to the review. If not, well, I fear the game may not get the understanding and attention it deserves. Thank you -Other He started the review before the patch, but has been playing (still is) post-patch. Dana Massey |
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7/22/09 5:36:12 PM#53
Great. Thank you. Only other comment is that having played from beta to EU to NA, I find the experience on EU to be very different due to all the exploits that existed there that are much improved on the NA server. Regardless, it sounds like we can look forward to an informed review which should be refreshing regardless of rating.
Peace - Other |
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tombear81
Novice Member
Joined: 3/17/07
"Meeza spullon and gramma is ou me ma taut me. Yousa no write be nasta to ma speelin n a grumma !" |
7/23/09 2:37:33 PM#54
Originally posted by Dana
Forgive me for saying this but "magical" post release patches never stop a game nose diving into the abyss and make it much much better all at once. Seriously dont think the patch is an issue. Lets not turn this into the next patch will get DF a better score. Its the core game which is in the spotlight. (And most people know that the core game is naked CS knife fights in a bland lacklustre fantasy settings)
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7/23/09 4:05:21 PM#55
Originally posted by tombear81
Forgive me for saying this but "magical" post release patches never stop a game nose diving into the abyss and make it much much better all at once. Seriously dont think the patch is an issue. Lets not turn this into the next patch will get DF a better score. Its the core game which is in the spotlight. (And most people know that the core game is naked CS knife fights in a bland lacklustre fantasy settings)
Yeah, every MMO should be improving over time. There are some notable exceptions, but that is another story.
A review should be done with what is released and playable at the time of the review. A review has to deal in the here and now, not potential. That is why every MMO should release the very best, and most polished product that it possibly can on Release day. That is time when the vast majority of players make their decision on whether to play or not.
Of course MMOs can expect to have re-reviews if they survive long enough... but even that is not guaranteed. We've seen a couple examples of some re-reviews already. I think SWG's was a 5-year re-review, and Dana mentioned AoC getting a re-review soon as well.
So yeah, as MMOs are able to get things working better there should be some notable improvements from when they were released... but that isn't a substitute for how the game was on Release Day. Most MMOs only get one shot to get things right the first time, so they should pick their Release carefully. |
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Respit
Novice Member
Joined: 11/05/08
“It's not easy to cut through a human head with a hacksaw.” |
7/23/09 10:45:33 PM#56
Originally posted by otheron3
I don't have a problem with the reviewer meeting that criteria.
Just as long as the first things noted in the review is: Note: If you haven't ever played UO pre-Trammel, Darktide in AC1 or one of the Zek EQ servers, then this game isn't for you because you will never understand this review, nor Darkfall.
Sounds fair to me. DarkFall FAQ - Read then Question with Boldness |
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laleb
Novice Member
Joined: 10/16/06
To fight with honor is great. I will remember that when I pull my blade from your back |
7/24/09 12:07:15 AM#57
Respite,
Hate to say this but I would gather 60% of those that play mmo's where never in EQ or any of the other games you said. To be brutally honest about the only way to get people to understand a review now days is to compare it to WoW. As long as the game itself is good and it is playable by the gamers and the review shows how it does then it should be a good review*.
*Note - Good meaning it describes the game properly not based on any score. |
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7/24/09 12:28:03 AM#58
Originally posted by laleb
only 60%? You are too generous... more like 98% Zek was one server on EQ.. there were actually a few for a while, but most old school EQers were playing carebear servers. And all those games are so old most everyone that played the PvP in them have either died off from old age or got responsible/grown up and quit gaming. (not all did though, like me :p) |
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Respit
Novice Member
Joined: 11/05/08
“It's not easy to cut through a human head with a hacksaw.” |
7/24/09 1:48:58 AM#59
Originally posted by laleb
Well, actually you did get the point, but you didn't know it.
I just don't feel that having to meet the fans criteria would serve any purpose, other than to validate the fans of the game. And, as you pointed out, a vast majority of the MMO audience would not even be able to relate. Today's MMO players is the target audience that the review is made for, not the fans. The fans are already playing.
Anywho, I may visit this later, but I have other things to attend to right now.
Take care.
DarkFall FAQ - Read then Question with Boldness |
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7/24/09 7:40:06 AM#60
Dana I hope your reviewer does not do the typical "kill some goblins, farm some wood for the clan" thing... Instead what would be really cool imho, would be if he managed to participate in what only bloggers like Paragus (http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Paragus1/042009/3666_Darkfall-Warships) have covered so far.. that is city sieges, clan politics, political backstabbing, naval combat... etc. Also "theMercs" clan have just managed to build the largest warship in game and they were recruiting people to man those cannons.. would be cool if your guy somehow managed to join them and review how it is to blow up a coastal city :P |
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7/24/09 9:50:50 AM#61
Originally posted by Prem
Not sure if a staged review would be the way to go about it, could open up a whole new can of worms, just a thought. |
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7/24/09 10:12:03 AM#62
Originally posted by Prem
Read through reviews of other MMOs here on mmorpg.com... that will give you a good idea of what to expect from this review.
Do the reviewers get to the max level/skill and participate in the majority of "end-game" activities before they do their review? Sure, there might be a couple exceptions; but by and large the answer is no. The reason is because reviews of MMOs are most relevant when the MMO is fairly new on the scene. That is when most players are wanting some advice on how the MMO stacks up compared to other MMOs. As it is, with DarkFall being 5 months released; this review is already pushing the envelope of relevance. It helps that Aventurine recently released their NA server... for that reason, the timing of this review is still relevant.
By all means; review sites should do some follow-up reviews as the game progresses. For the most part though MMO reviews are about first impressions and what a new player can expect in their first few weeks in the game. It is simply a matter of time and return on investment. Sites like this one can not afford to pay reviewers to play a MMO for 6 months before they give their review. The review would by that time also be mostly irrelevant since most players would have already bought it, or something else.
As it is mmorpg.com has given DarkFall more time to develop than they've given the majority of MMOs. DarkFall is a couple days away from their 5 month mark. From what Dana has told us, the reviewer has spent a month or more playing the game. That is more generous than most MMOs get. Nope, DarkFall is getting the best advantage here than any other site that has reviewed DarkFall so far. |
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7/24/09 10:51:12 AM#63
Guys/girls! they are reveiwing it at this current time! Why dont we stop trying to influence them by all these " if you do this it will be fair" and " if it scores lower than this, then it will be credible" ( not actual quotes but you ghet the jist ) comments and let them do it thier way? they actually have experience in MMO's and reviewing them, heck that's why we come here isnt it? no matter how much we try we arent going to influence them into our ways...so lets just let them review it and then discuss it after. By the way Dana! as long as your reviewer has played longer than 6 months, experienced 3 different clans, participated in at least 10, 50+ raids, got Fire magic up to at least 100. and has made mastercraft in armoursmith....and scored it above 8 then i will accept it as a credible! |
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7/24/09 11:02:17 AM#64
Originally posted by xzyax
Read through reviews of other MMOs here on mmorpg.com... that will give you a good idea of what to expect from this review.
Do the reviewers get to the max level/skill and participate in the majority of "end-game" activities before they do their review? Sure, there might be a couple exceptions; but by and large the answer is no. The reason is because reviews of MMOs are most relevant when the MMO is fairly new on the scene. That is when most players are wanting some advice on how the MMO stacks up compared to other MMOs. As it is, with DarkFall being 5 months released; this review is already pushing the envelope of relevance. It helps that Aventurine recently released their NA server... for that reason, the timing of this review is still relevant.
By all means; review sites should do some follow-up reviews as the game progresses. For the most part though MMO reviews are about first impressions and what a new player can expect in their first few weeks in the game. It is simply a matter of time and return on investment. Sites like this one can not afford to pay reviewers to play a MMO for 6 months before they give their review. The review would by that time also be mostly irrelevant since most players would have already bought it, or something else.
As it is mmorpg.com has given DarkFall more time to develop than they've given the majority of MMOs. DarkFall is a couple days away from their 5 month mark. From what Dana has told us, the reviewer has spent a month or more playing the game. That is more generous than most MMOs get. Nope, DarkFall is getting the best advantage here than any other site that has reviewed DarkFall so far.
Didnt she actually say that thier reviewers are required to give at least 3 weeks to each game they review? and that also it's very rare that they actually review a game early on release? this would suggest that Darkfall is getting about the same attention..though she hasnt commented on whether any games get more than that 3 week period...so for all we know Darkfall might not be getting as much.....but then again friend i am just gusessing myself! pretty much the same as you :) Again lets stop trying to swing opinions before its even out yet :) this site has a policy they stick to when reviewing games. we dont know all the ins and outs so lets just trust them and give them chance. If they come out with a low score.i for one will respect that! even though i am still playing and still think its the best game out there at the min. i will still respect thier review and trust that they are honest and gave the game a fair crack. i suggest all Darkfall players follow the same suit.......of course i also suggest that all sceptics follow the same rules also. |
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7/24/09 1:10:58 PM#65
Originally posted by shukes33
Didnt she actually say that thier reviewers are required to give at least 3 weeks to each game they review? and that also it's very rare that they actually review a game early on release? this would suggest that Darkfall is getting about the same attention..though she hasnt commented on whether any games get more than that 3 week period...so for all we know Darkfall might not be getting as much.....but then again friend i am just gusessing myself! pretty much the same as you :) Again lets stop trying to swing opinions before its even out yet :) this site has a policy they stick to when reviewing games. we dont know all the ins and outs so lets just trust them and give them chance. If they come out with a low score.i for one will respect that! even though i am still playing and still think its the best game out there at the min. i will still respect thier review and trust that they are honest and gave the game a fair crack. i suggest all Darkfall players follow the same suit.......of course i also suggest that all sceptics follow the same rules also. You should go back and read my post #21... www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2962237#2962237
The table from the link above are the facts as they relate to mmorpg.com's recent reviews. I didn't make up the numbers in that table. I'm not trying to sway anything, as I was the one saying that mmorpg.com has done a better job than most sites in their reviews.
And yeah... the review will be what it is. For most it won't make the difference between playing or not. If you read back a few posts, I agreed with Zorvan on this upcoming DarkFall review. As long as it's not a 10... I'm fine with it. To each their own, and have fun. |
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7/25/09 5:04:44 PM#66
Originally posted by Earthgirl
Not sure if a staged review would be the way to go about it, could open up a whole new can of worms, just a thought.
No one was suggesting a "staged review". What was suggested is a review from a person who actually experiences aspects of the game not one reviewer of a recognized "fan site" has had the time to do. You simply can't give DFO a fair review without experiencing it, and that's all that is being suggested. For all we know the review may say shooting cannons at players, ships and cities isn't fun, or doesn't work; or blowing up or building cities isn't fun or doesn't work, or whatever. He/she may say cooperating with a guild or alliance is not fun and prefers a more solo friendly game. Point is merely that a reviewer "experience" the whole game to the extent possible, as those of us playing it are. -CC "Lately it occurs to me, |
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7/25/09 5:08:01 PM#67
I think the whole mmorpg staff should review darkfall and average the scores beacause it really is to much resposibility for one person :) Trolls = Hardcore
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7/25/09 6:01:39 PM#68
Originally posted by Cyborg99
LOL "Lately it occurs to me, |
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7/25/09 6:05:21 PM#69
Originally posted by ChinaCat
No one was suggesting a "staged review". What was suggested is a review from a person who actually experiences aspects of the game not one reviewer of a recognized "fan site" has had the time to do. You simply can't give DFO a fair review without experiencing it, and that's all that is being suggested. For all we know the review may say shooting cannons at players, ships and cities isn't fun, or doesn't work; or blowing up or building cities isn't fun or doesn't work, or whatever. He/she may say cooperating with a guild or alliance is not fun and prefers a more solo friendly game. Point is merely that a reviewer "experience" the whole game to the extent possible, as those of us playing it are. -CC I write in green therefore i am important! |
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Originally posted by ChinaCat
No one was suggesting a "staged review". What was suggested is a review from a person who actually experiences aspects of the game not one reviewer of a recognized "fan site" has had the time to do. You simply can't give DFO a fair review without experiencing it, and that's all that is being suggested. For all we know the review may say shooting cannons at players, ships and cities isn't fun, or doesn't work; or blowing up or building cities isn't fun or doesn't work, or whatever. He/she may say cooperating with a guild or alliance is not fun and prefers a more solo friendly game. Point is merely that a reviewer "experience" the whole game to the extent possible, as those of us playing it are. -CC Well, I'm sure in a month of playing, he's probably seen whatever the game has to offer for those who haven't played it yet. |
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7/25/09 6:20:07 PM#71
Originally posted by ChinaCat
No one was suggesting a "staged review". What was suggested is a review from a person who actually experiences aspects of the game not one reviewer of a recognized "fan site" has had the time to do. You simply can't give DFO a fair review without experiencing it, and that's all that is being suggested. For all we know the review may say shooting cannons at players, ships and cities isn't fun, or doesn't work; or blowing up or building cities isn't fun or doesn't work, or whatever. He/she may say cooperating with a guild or alliance is not fun and prefers a more solo friendly game. Point is merely that a reviewer "experience" the whole game to the extent possible, as those of us playing it are. -CC
"Also "theMercs" clan have just managed to build the largest warship in game and they were recruiting people to man those cannons.. would be cool if your guy somehow managed to join them and review how it is to blow up a coastal city" Many would call what is suggested above staged. Im not saying its a bad idea, but it would make one wonder what else is staged after reading the review. I do understand what your saying, just we have different opinions on it. (edit- typo) |
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7/25/09 6:45:42 PM#72
Originally posted by Scoorge
No one was suggesting a "staged review". What was suggested is a review from a person who actually experiences aspects of the game not one reviewer of a recognized "fan site" has had the time to do. You simply can't give DFO a fair review without experiencing it, and that's all that is being suggested. For all we know the review may say shooting cannons at players, ships and cities isn't fun, or doesn't work; or blowing up or building cities isn't fun or doesn't work, or whatever. He/she may say cooperating with a guild or alliance is not fun and prefers a more solo friendly game. Point is merely that a reviewer "experience" the whole game to the extent possible, as those of us playing it are. -CC I write in green therefore i am important!
Really? But to lo let all these colors not be used would besuch a waste. -CC "Lately it occurs to me, |
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7/25/09 7:04:54 PM#73
Originally posted by ChinaCat
A fair review is written by someone who doesn't previous play the game but who takes enough time to at least see most parts of the game but you can't expect them to see everything. like all other MMOs this site have reviewed. The fans of the game in particular don't always agree but it is not fair if they write it either. A reviewer shouldn't be biased in one way or another because the review would not be fair then. A review written by a fan or a hater will never be fair to the game and the people on this site who wants to know more about the game. A review should always be written by someone who has no personal stake in a game. |
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7/25/09 7:20:38 PM#74
Fine, let the reviewer not see absolutely everything. But please, no more "Ok i killed some goblins, farmed some wood and ore for my clan, and crafted some arrows". Type of reviews. *cougheurogamer* The thing is (apart from full loot pvp) sieges and clan politics are Darkfall's strongest selling points. Not reviewing or even mentioning them is like reviewing "The Dark Knight" and not mentioning Heath Ledger's performance About the Manowar thing... let me rephrase: " the reviewer would be smart if he at least applied to be a part of the pirate crew "theMercs" are currently recruiting. " |
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