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7/24/09 5:03:45 PM#81
Originally posted by lugal
Clearly you drink the cryptic koolaid. His examples are flawed. WoW has no RMT. YOu can not buy items for ingame use. YOu MAY win one thru chance in playing the card game. But those items are pure cosmetic and there is no item mall to puchase said cards or cosmetic items. Guitar hero/Rockband isnt a mmo. THe problem is that there are idiots who are willing to spend money to get a leg up on others who cant aford to, or unwilling to spend the money. They clealy have stated they will offer in game items that are not just cosmetic. That will do more harm to game sales than anything else. Actually, you are the one that is wrong about wow and their RMTs. Buying a card so you can get a mount is an RMT. I'm sorry but it doesn't get any clearer than t hat. The card game money goes to Blizzard, and the player gets a cool spectral tiger that others cannot get in game on their own. Just because there isn't a vendor in-game that lets you fork over real money, doesn't mean the end result is any different. And the guy continuously says they aren't selling game-changing items, just vanity stuff like mounts. So wait and see what it looks like. Look people, it's real simple: If you can't afford $5 for some stupid pet t hen don't buy it. Until someone 1-shots you with a weapon they bought in a RMT, SHUT THE F-CK UP. |
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7/24/09 5:34:54 PM#82
Originally posted by SaintViktor
Did you read the part where he said vanity items WILL be in the cash shop? Where "fun" cosmetic items WILL be in the cash shop? So my statement still stands. WHY should I have to pay for these items if I am already paying a monthly subscription? It is 100% pure greed, plain and simple. The items should be included with my subscription.
You do not need the vanity items in order to play so nothing is being forced upon anyone. Some just don't get it and its becoming very tiring to explain to those who only hear what they want to. There might be a monthly fee but there is no official announcement yet.
Sounds to me like you'll also be able to purchase items which affect gameplay. Just because they say you can aquire those items through playing doesn't mean they're not including gameplay affecting items as well. That's exactly the same idea as buying an item for a game from someone on ebay....the only difference here is they're cutting out the middle man and making profit off of what was formerly against the TOS of said games. Seems like a ripoff to me. Pass. |
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7/24/09 5:37:02 PM#83
Stop being a lawyer and twisting the world to fit your rather infantile outlook. I would refute your garbage but I think at this point you simply talking is damaging enough to your own case. ANYONE that tries to equate a REAL cash shop to WoW TCC is both grossly incompetent and more importantly a troglodyte trying to push their own disingenuous agenda. |
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7/24/09 5:46:58 PM#84
lol all i hear in threads like this is "whine" "CRY" "WHINE" im cheap and others may not be so i feel threatened. Why do you care so much if you can earn THE EXACT SAME ITEM that someone spent there hard earned money on? |
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7/24/09 6:06:44 PM#85
Originally posted by LordRelic That isn't want most people have a problem with... unless you have to do something really hard to do get it. Really I don't care what they do CO, cause I wasn't going to play it, anyway. but they are making STO too...
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7/24/09 7:10:10 PM#86
But what does it really matter if the items strictly sold in the shop have NO impact on the game apart from visual apeal?.
even in sto say they sold an item that would change what color the plasma from your engines produce but apart from that has no real function. Why do you care if someone spends there money on it? |
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7/24/09 7:21:04 PM#87
Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero I agree that it is not equal to a real, fully-functioning RMT system. When I see someone with one of the TCG mounts or pets or whatever, I do not get mad. I think "WOW cool! They play the TCG and they have great luck". Not all TCG can be bought because it is random that you get it in the TCG. Its not like you buy the TCG cards and you are guaranteed the spectral mount or whatever. Secondly, comparable mounts and even better mounts in my opinion, can be gotten in game in various ways. Its not like that mount is better, it just looks different. I did have an interesting thought today: I love Burnout Paradise on the Xbox. I needed to get the Big Surf island "expansion" so to do it, I had to go to Wal-mart, by a game card for points and use them. Not to mention that I maintain a subscription through Xbox live. All of the sudden I realized that console gaming is built around and with RMT in mind. Why do we get so defensive and upset about it in MMO's then? Am I way off base here or any feel the same? |
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7/24/09 11:07:42 PM#88
Don't know, perhaps because I'm not a console player. |
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7/24/09 11:33:37 PM#89
Originally posted by SaintViktor
Chances are you will not need to buy anything from the shop except extra character slots, item storage, name changes and character makeovers if you want. Some just blow things way our of proportion and do not even read before they go off the deep end. We are not blowing any thing out of proportion in my opinion. I am really baffled how you defenders of this pure greed system don't see that all these items that will be available through the cash shop in CO are items that we would all ready have access to in game becuase of the monthly sub we pay if it was not for them deciding to try this RMT crap. Its because people just accept things like this that these companies get greedier and greedier and keep pushing the boundaries.
Originality is the fine art of remembering what you hear but forgetting where you heard it. - Laurence J. Peter |
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7/24/09 11:48:15 PM#90
I didn't get a chance to read everyone's post on this as it seems to be all the same story and gripe. But, some people are reacting to Bill's comments and not making very much sense with them. Let me give you a game that uses microtransactions. That would be City of Heroes. They have those booster packs that you can pay. I imagine the things you can buy from the booster packs will be very similar to the things you can buy on champions online maybe. You really can't argue with that. I don't hear people griping about having to buy the booster packs to get that /emote or costume change or article of clothing. I, myself, have bought the magic booster pack.
Really guys...the game is not out and your panties are all in a wad. You're crying over something you don't know 100% about. Just relax and take it easy. They're not forcing you to spend the money. They did repeatedly say that no one gets the leg up over someone from buying anything from the store. Gosh...God forbid that we just wait for the game to come out before we go all haywire. Maybe some of you can't live without having something to gripe about. By all means, make your griping more useful, call Obama up and gripe about the economy or about global warming. |
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7/25/09 12:13:12 AM#91
Originally posted by Jarin And yet, Bill didn't include CoH as one of his "you already love microtransactions" examples because:
If CO had come out with a statement "we will release free content updates in place of paid expansions" then they might have been able to put themselves in the same category as CoH. Instead they are, as someone rather eloquently put it earlier in this thread, attempting to pump money out of us via every orifice. |
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7/25/09 12:34:12 AM#92
Originally posted by LordRelic If they put in something like that, I wouldn't care or even little decals you can place on your hull. I don't what MMOs to go down this road. You give them an inch they will take a mile. |
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7/25/09 1:51:59 AM#93
Originally posted by Sigilaea
Clearly you drink the cryptic koolaid. His examples are flawed. WoW has no RMT. YOu can not buy items for ingame use. YOu MAY win one thru chance in playing the card game. But those items are pure cosmetic and there is no item mall to puchase said cards or cosmetic items. Guitar hero/Rockband isnt a mmo. THe problem is that there are idiots who are willing to spend money to get a leg up on others who cant aford to, or unwilling to spend the money. They clealy have stated they will offer in game items that are not just cosmetic. That will do more harm to game sales than anything else. Actually, you are the one that is wrong about wow and their RMTs. Buying a card so you can get a mount is an RMT. I'm sorry but it doesn't get any clearer than t hat. The card game money goes to Blizzard, and the player gets a cool spectral tiger that others cannot get in game on their own. Just because there isn't a vendor in-game that lets you fork over real money, doesn't mean the end result is any different. And the guy continuously says they aren't selling game-changing items, just vanity stuff like mounts. So wait and see what it looks like. Look people, it's real simple: If you can't afford $5 for some stupid pet t hen don't buy it. Until someone 1-shots you with a weapon they bought in a RMT, SHUT THE F-CK UP.
Wow, you got a piss poor attitude. Buying a pack of cards for a standalone card game that requires no monthly fee that has a chance of offering a free vanity item or mount in a game that shares its name, isnt a RMT. Lets define what RMT in a MMO is. 1. Offering items that players can purchase items for ingame use. 2. Trading real world currency for virtual items. 3. An Item mall created by the game maker/publisher. Accessable ingame or out that has the virtual items for sale. Now that I have put up what pretty much what a RMT is at its roots, a trading card game that has a chance(gambling) or rewarding the player with a free ingame item. If I so choose to sell this item on Ebay doesnt make it a RMT. You speak for Roper now I see as well. Maybe you should read this post: http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?t=23349 Jackalope 1) Microtransactions enable us to have a larger development team
Now, any sane person can understand what the word mostly means. So, do I need to explain this further for you? |
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7/25/09 2:46:38 AM#94
Originally posted by Jarin It's rather noble of you to defend this poor company from the likes of us, I applaud your vailant efforts, sir. But, what if you're the one who's wrong and we all followed your advice and sat silent like good sheep? And let's get real, when you fire off crap like this you're not thinking, you're just arguing for the sake of it, tagging the President Obama thing on the end just makes you look hard pressed. We have a vested interest this discourse, what's your excuse? Do corps just do it for you and you go out of your way to fawn over them, is there some sort of Cryptic Defender of the Crown title I don't know about? This is how it works, we voice our concerns in advance to change a future choice. We don't sit on our hands and hope it works out for the best because these companies obviously have our bests interests in mind. Go back to your "no spin zone," which oddly enough translates into "complete bullshit." |
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7/25/09 6:19:59 AM#95
Defending Bill Roper is ultimately self-defeating. If you want your game to cost a lot more and not be worth the extra cash, with all the things you loved most about the previous titles costing extra and all the more boring bits merely costing a lot, Bill's your man. |
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7/25/09 8:33:03 AM#96
Originally posted by Irishoak It's rather noble of you to defend this poor company from the likes of us, I applaud your vailant efforts, sir. But, what if you're the one who's wrong and we all followed your advice and sat silent like good sheep? And let's get real, when you fire off crap like this you're not thinking, you're just arguing for the sake of it, tagging the President Obama thing on the end just makes you look hard pressed. We have a vested interest this discourse, what's your excuse? Do corps just do it for you and you go out of your way to fawn over them, is there some sort of Cryptic Defender of the Crown title I don't know about? This is how it works, we voice our concerns in advance to change a future choice. We don't sit on our hands and hope it works out for the best because these companies obviously have our bests interests in mind. Go back to your "no spin zone," which oddly enough translates into "complete bullshit." Take it easy, your concerns are justified. What I dont follow is the purist approach of saying that warcraft and other games for that matter don't have anything that could be seen as MT. From the interview, that's was essentially the argument that most if not all mmos have some sort of MT, from the least(server transfers, name changes, a few promos) to the ones completely based on MT (mostly F2P games). Therefore, reducing the discussion to the level of MT that is planning in CO, which I admit is still not clear and there is where I agree with your concerns. I definetely would rather that MT could be avoid it. However, I have to think a bit around the box and seeing that it is a necessary evil for the game survival at least at the beginning (honestly even if you have a decent game, nowadays it is like developing a operating system, it would have to be revolutionary and even in that case that still could fail). They are going to be MT, that is not even on discussion, I would rather fight to limit them. |
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7/25/09 10:13:06 AM#97
Originally posted by gandales There's nothing "purist" about it. People who object to MTs - and that's most people who play subscription mmos - prefer all game-related expenses to be covered by the subscription. This is the existing industry standard. Account service fees - for eg. moving transferring characters to another server - are not microtransactions. Microtransactions have a particular meaning in relation to mmos and payment models, and that meaning relates to real-world money buying virtual items. Players who prefer subscription mmos generally view RMT as a form of cheating.
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7/25/09 10:22:33 AM#98
Originally posted by gandales
One of my major points is, Roper is spinning crap, no need to spin crap for him. I see nothing, and I repeat nothing, good coming from having a MT store. It's not "good thinking" or a "different view" it's them wanting as much money as they can get. The fact is if you do the math your MMO isn't going to be a monster like WoW, heck chances are it may not even recoup the initial investment in a timely manner. Roper mentions every money making scheme he has seen in action via console or DLC and tries to justify it by saying; "Well, WoW has f'n turtle cards! And name changes, that's a MT! AM I RITE?" (We saw how well his "thinking outside the box" did him with Hellgate: London's payment model...) That does not cut it for me. If you can't read the man by his words I doubt I can change anyone's mind on the subject, the bottom line for me is, they are too greedy, I'm ok with a bit of greed but they are trying to combine every money making business model they can into one giant money sucking machine. I like Champions, I still have the hardback rulebook, I want this to be a good game, but with greed as their prime motive, even if it's just the people controling the purse strings, it will not be. You can't have a game that is half and half, Roper has visions of Xbox DLC floating through his sugar plum of a head. And if they do enact the business model, it demands the coolest stuff be in the store, not the stuff that's just ok, the best stuff. It makes no sense to go to the effort and not fill it wih cool costumes. All new content will focus on that not the "regular" game when developement continues on "extra" content it will be split into "cool" and "standard." When greed becomes your primary objective, you've lost me, I'm not going support any company that's driven by it. Many other games have proven you can have loads of regular updates with all the bells and whistles for the price of admission. Hell, if they want to milk us for cash let them work on an expac like everyone else. Charge for name changes; fine, charge for server moves; fine, charge for me to buy "extra" character slots; I'm ok with that. Don't charge for content you ripped from the release as "bonus" material because you deemed it cool enough to remove and place in a store. You went too far. Real life example here, EvE has added massive amounts of upgrades and content for the monthly fee only. What is Champions doing differently that requires them to generate so much more money? I'll tell you what, nothing. They do not need special gold plated server racks or 1.7 Gigawatts of Power per second to run the flux capacitor. We won't all get a 2 ping to the server. They can not justify charging extra for release date content when so many others do not. hey want you to buy into it so it can become the standard, it's their wet dream. There is nothing you or any of the people here can say to make me think otherwise. I'm sick of the greed, and I'm getting really tired of the masses of apathetic consumers we have in America. I'm begining to wish we didn't prop up the banks. We're too stupid to even play a video game without getting gouged and thinking it's the companies god given Right to do it and we should thank them kindly for thinking of ways to fuck us. |
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7/25/09 11:04:53 AM#99
Originally posted by green13 There's nothing "purist" about it. People who object to MTs - and that's most people who play subscription mmos - prefer all game-related expenses to be covered by the subscription. This is the existing industry standard. Account service fees - for eg. moving transferring characters to another server - are not microtransactions. Microtransactions have a particular meaning in relation to mmos and payment models, and that meaning relates to real-world money buying virtual items. Players who prefer subscription mmos generally view RMT as a form of cheating.
and you are free to prefer that, I am actually on your side on that preference. However, MMO industry is currently on a slump since it is too risky investing money for a plain subscription scheme. Hardly anybody is going to invest a huge amount of money while wow is still keeping dominance over the subscription market, it is just too risky. Many of the posters are talking about greediness, that's pretty much silly provided that in the end all games are made by companies with stockholders that want to get money under reasonable risks. If we take into account the amount of money that wow obtains from subscribers it is not unreasonable to think that they could create more things for the game, but they keep the investment just high enough to keep the subscribers happy, which is certainly greed and fine with me. My only problem is that all I see is bashing without thinking out of the box. People want a wow-like game with the amount of development that took blizzard years and a tons of money, at launch and with an optimistic estimation of less than a million subscribers. It is not going to happen, at least not anytime soon. |
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7/25/09 11:48:13 AM#100
The only way to truely get rid of MT's is for a company to implement them then have NO ONE buy them. As long as there is demand, they will exist. Just like anything else purchased. Businesses are always out to make money, that's why anyone starts a business(unless they have the $$ they need and are giving charity) and as long as there is someone to buy their product(no matter how stupid or greedy sounding) they will sell it. Convince the buyer NOT to buy and that kills the supply from the company. Hey, if I could sell my dirty underwear on E-Bay for $50, you bet I'd do it. There's a sucker born every minute. |
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