I'm kind of bored at the moment so I thought i'd start something ive been thinking about for awhile. If you can read through this non sense go for it. This is simply my opinion from what ive observed playing mmos since WoW.

Why do most people solo level to cap? Now I am ALL being given different options within a game when it comes to leveling, whether it be solo, group, quest, grind etc etc. But after playing a few mmos lately since WoW introduced the questing system it just doesn't seem worth it to group.

Usually in mmos since WoW, questing is a faster way to level and grinding is not as affective (I do like that grinding seems more affective in Aion). Obviously the quickest way would be to grind/kill mobs while questing. So say im lucky enough to find someone on the EXACT same part of the quest chain that I am on, my exp is going to be reduced in half for each mob we kill. Granted you finish faster but it just feels slower to group when leveling, which just blows my mind away. Plus doing quests with drop rates in groups... don't even get me started. So my question is, why do I level slower when in a group of 3-4 compared to when im solo questing?

I remember games such as Daoc and im sure other older mmos where you were required to group while you level. You could still solo but there was a lot of down time and grouping was highly encouraged. It didn't matter what "steps" of a quest you were on, you could even be 2-3 levels appart. Infact you even recieved group bonus experiance.

These days downtime is a non issue (for the better imo). But I feel like with how everything is implemented these days grouping in pve to lvl just isn't worth it. Maybe it is just me but I feel like 3-4 people leveling together should level faster than just one person by himself. It's just funny in old mmos it wasn't worth it to solo cause you could just group... and now everyone just solo exps cause it isn't worth it to group. So you just have hundreds of players solo lvling in an mmo... right.

Now ive only played the beta in Aion but once again it seems to be in that quest formula where soloing is more encouraged. Im not going to die over it, ive grown to accept it... but does it get more worth while to group level later on?

The vast majority of quests available within the majority of MMORPGs are focused on the single player.  The majority of the distribution of monsters through out a game world is focused on the single player. You'll find a lot more spawns of one, two or three monsters than you will 10 - 20 monsters. The respawn rate of monsters is focused on the single player.  MMORPGs have always had a focus on the experiences of a single player.

Edit: Have fun with the spammers.

 I know what you mean but a lot of games are changing it now, where its no penalty or it even gives you a boost in xp to party. Its just hard to find a group that you can rely on most of the time, you want a nice stable group to play with, not some random one every time.

EDIT: I don't see much of a difference in Aion though from soloing and group leveling, I even feel like it goes faster with a group, probably cuz im having fun and im not bored when im in a group. when i solo it feels like it takes forever.

Because waiting in a LFG channel for hours on end only to be paired up w/ a group of mentally challenged, hormonally imbalanced jackasses who are awful at the game or go /afk every 10 minutes....

is lame.

It's all cool when you have friends on to level w/, but that basically means your reliant on them to actually be able to  -play- the game at the exact same times you do, and you have to keep at similar levels or your holding the others back from progressing.

Don't get me wrong, grouping can be great for leveling.  But the game's where its required are pretty much dinosaurs for a reason.

I solo a lot myself for some of the same reasons that have been mentioned such as waiting for a group  to find out its not a group you really want to be around.  Ever seen/heard someone berated because they did something wrong? Its happened to me and i cant think of how many times ive whispered someone and told them to "not worry about it, the guys an asshole" because whoever was being bitched at for some mistake.  We can all use constructive thoughts in all walks of life but some of the things ive seen would curl your hair.  Ive grouped with some great people but more often than not its been at best a bearable situation. As for guilds? When someone tells everyone in the group who gets a drop instead of rolling for the object i know im in the wrong place. Someones sleeping with the "guild masters" sister so he gets the epic sword? Not for me. Back to pugs for a minuete. Ever been in a group and have some or most of them leave when they get what they need and be standing there with one or two other guys wondering what happened? I do like grouping but only with people i enjoy being around and games that require groups at low levels before you have time to make friends isnt a game i will play for long. DDO comes to mind. I have heard that DDO has implemented more solo material and if thats true that goes to agree with the fact that group centric games do not do as well as solo friendly games.

Early MMORPGs where not solo friendly at all, and I must say I hated it and was always looking for that 1 class that could actualy solo. But after playing WoW and it's spinoffs for the past 5 years I'm starting to wish grouping was brought back.

Idioty and inability to function as a group in recent MMOs is due to the lack of grouping experience, if grouping had been enforced more peoples would be much better at it. I take CoH/V as proof of it, grouping is not forced but it is favorable and players are much better and they rarely act like assholes.

Originally posted by Cefka

Early MMORPGs where not solo friendly at all, and I must say I hated it and was always looking for that 1 class that could actualy solo. But after playing WoW and it's spinoffs for the past 5 years I'm starting to wish grouping was brought back.

Idioty and inability to function as a group in recent MMOs is due to the lack of grouping experience, if grouping had been enforced more peoples would be much better at it. I take CoH/V as proof of it, grouping is not forced but it is favorable and players are much better and they rarely act like assholes.

QFT when i played the group grinders i was getting fed up on my damage dealer classes not finding a group and wanted a break from my Death Knight (eqoa shadow knight not wow) and in eqoa solo was useless i could solo 1 mob at a time just above the lvl to where they stopped giving exp. so yeah a good bit lower lvl than me.

started playing wow with my GF and we loved being able to play without grouping with anyone, now not that we didn't like grouping , just hated wasting 1/2 the night lfg to just give up and play our healer/tank combo wich we knew we could get a group on no problem.

but now missing the group games, we realized you just don';t get to know your community in the wow solo games like you u did in the group ones. wich may be why the wow community is as bad as it is?

A lot of you guys do make good points about how it can suck to look for a group etc etc. I agree a game shouldn't force you to HAVE to group pve to lvl if you don't want to. I guess my major problem is there is no benefit to doing so... if anything you're all the more encouraged to not group. In an mmo I just find that interesting. Thanks for all your thoughts so far.

Well, after having played Aion a bit, I will try to group as much as possible. Especially after level 20. Why?

1. Less risky

2. Faster XP

3. Meet people

Will also try to do dungeons as much as possible on order to gain gear and levels.

Originally posted by abyss610

Originally posted by Cefka

Early MMORPGs where not solo friendly at all, and I must say I hated it and was always looking for that 1 class that could actualy solo. But after playing WoW and it's spinoffs for the past 5 years I'm starting to wish grouping was brought back.

Idioty and inability to function as a group in recent MMOs is due to the lack of grouping experience, if grouping had been enforced more peoples would be much better at it. I take CoH/V as proof of it, grouping is not forced but it is favorable and players are much better and they rarely act like assholes.

 

QFT when i played the group grinders i was getting fed up on my damage dealer classes not finding a group and wanted a break from my Death Knight (eqoa shadow knight not wow) and in eqoa solo was useless i could solo 1 mob at a time just above the lvl to where they stopped giving exp. so yeah a good bit lower lvl than me.

started playing wow with my GF and we loved being able to play without grouping with anyone, now not that we didn't like grouping , just hated wasting 1/2 the night lfg to just give up and play our healer/tank combo wich we knew we could get a group on no problem.

but now missing the group games, we realized you just don';t get to know your community in the wow solo games like you u did in the group ones. wich may be why the wow community is as bad as it is?

I was like you folks, back in DAOC when it was hardcore grouping for the most part, I used to wish for classes that could solo.

I got my wish eventually, and thought it was a good thing at the time, but since then game mechanics have changed so much (esp in the Quest driven games) that I no longer can find a decent grouping experience (that makes any sense to do outside of a raid).

How's the song go, "You don't know what you've missed until its gone" or something like that.

Real shame is, many of today's players only have WOW and recent games like it to base their grouping experience on, and its entirely understandable why they loath them.  If only they could have been part of the heyday.  (and yes, I realize there was bad parts to grouping back then)

I never thought I'd miss the grouping (and even named camping) when I was playing EQ. Back then, camping the same named for 2 days straight with strangers was something I hated. Now we have the ultimate solo experience, you can solo the entire game, you can even solo some group instances with the right class. The situation is now reversed.

Frankly, I wish I had never heard the word "Instance" and "solo" playing. Perhaps its nostalgia, I don't know. Only thing I know is, that 2 days straight camp is one of the fondest memories I have with EQ.

I could sell my soul for a eq style mmo right now. (empty mmo's doesn't count)

There was a time I loved to group in MMOs and enjoyed the interaction. Those days more and more seem to be gone for me. My problem is the community. 9 out of 10 times I pug I am forced into grouping with someone who is more or less a social leper and it ruins the entire group for me or the motivation to want to be there. I am in no way saying that guild stuff is not at times like this but you can at least research a guild and make sure personalities match to an extent. The social rules of dont be a dick seem to have been thrown out and half the MMO crowd is now the worse kind of person that would not be tolerated and uses the internet and games as a way to spew their stupidity without any downside.

Originally posted by Nickless_man

I never thought I'd miss the grouping (and even named camping) when I was playing EQ. Back then, camping the same named for 2 days straight with strangers was something I hated. Now we have the ultimate solo experience, you can solo the entire game, you can even solo some group instances with the right class. The situation is now reversed.

Frankly, I wish I had never heard the word "Instance" and "solo" playing. Perhaps its nostalgia, I don't know. Only thing I know is, that 2 days straight camp is one of the fondest memories I have with EQ.

I could sell my soul for a eq style mmo right now. (empty mmo's doesn't count)

There are many reasons why the "empty" mmo's are empty and lack of solo content isnt the main reason but it is one reason be it large or small. Most game companies realize this and try to strike a balance somewhere. As for Aion its my understanding that more pve, solo and group content, is being added with patching. Ive ran into a few people in beta that seemed nice and im sure i will make friends that i will enjoy playing with but being forced into a situation where i must group with whoever is available at a given time isnt something that appeals to me. A core group of friends you enjoy playing with is very enjoyable even if its talking in whisper while doing your crafting or gathering. I do not want a world devoid of people but do not want to feel forced into having to play with people either. Im a stubborn old fart and my mother always told me the best way to get me to do something was to tell me not too, it works the other way as well, best way to get me not to do something is to tell me i have to.

All kinds of leveling are encouraged in a MMO. That is almost the only point of the game until you reach max level.

Personally I solo something like 30-40%.

But the MMOs should actually get rid of the leveling all together, in most games it is just a long tutorial nowadays. Many Wow players say that the game starts at 80 and solo powerlevel through the rest of the game without interest.

A game shouldn't be like that, you should be able to become better as you play with no cap, but the difference shouldn't be as great as in any MMO today. I wish someone made a MMO version of Runequest, that system would have worked perfectly in a MMO.

As for how a player reaches the level cap, it doesn't really matters that much because you can't solo once you reached it. And people who only solo will suck in the endgame because youll need to learn how to work in a group to get anywhere.

Originally posted by grandpagamer

Originally posted by Nickless_man

I never thought I'd miss the grouping (and even named camping) when I was playing EQ. Back then, camping the same named for 2 days straight with strangers was something I hated. Now we have the ultimate solo experience, you can solo the entire game, you can even solo some group instances with the right class. The situation is now reversed.

Frankly, I wish I had never heard the word "Instance" and "solo" playing. Perhaps its nostalgia, I don't know. Only thing I know is, that 2 days straight camp is one of the fondest memories I have with EQ.

I could sell my soul for a eq style mmo right now. (empty mmo's doesn't count)

There are many reasons why the "empty" mmo's are empty and lack of solo content isnt the main reason but it is one reason be it large or small. Most game companies realize this and try to strike a balance somewhere. As for Aion its my understanding that more pve, solo and group content, is being added with patching. Ive ran into a few people in beta that seemed nice and im sure i will make friends that i will enjoy playing with but being forced into a situation where i must group with whoever is available at a given time isnt something that appeals to me. A core group of friends you enjoy playing with is very enjoyable even if its talking in whisper while doing your crafting or gathering. I do not want a world devoid of people but do not want to feel forced into having to play with people either. Im a stubborn old fart and my mother always told me the best way to get me to do something was to tell me not too, it works the other way as well, best way to get me not to do something is to tell me i have to.

Yes, but being forced to solo for 6+ hours a day doesn't appeal to me, either. So, the more solo content there is, the less group content I get to be a part of. It's a two way street.

Originally posted by DubaVampe

Originally posted by grandpagamer

Originally posted by Nickless_man

I never thought I'd miss the grouping (and even named camping) when I was playing EQ. Back then, camping the same named for 2 days straight with strangers was something I hated. Now we have the ultimate solo experience, you can solo the entire game, you can even solo some group instances with the right class. The situation is now reversed.

Frankly, I wish I had never heard the word "Instance" and "solo" playing. Perhaps its nostalgia, I don't know. Only thing I know is, that 2 days straight camp is one of the fondest memories I have with EQ.

I could sell my soul for a eq style mmo right now. (empty mmo's doesn't count)

There are many reasons why the "empty" mmo's are empty and lack of solo content isnt the main reason but it is one reason be it large or small. Most game companies realize this and try to strike a balance somewhere. As for Aion its my understanding that more pve, solo and group content, is being added with patching. Ive ran into a few people in beta that seemed nice and im sure i will make friends that i will enjoy playing with but being forced into a situation where i must group with whoever is available at a given time isnt something that appeals to me. A core group of friends you enjoy playing with is very enjoyable even if its talking in whisper while doing your crafting or gathering. I do not want a world devoid of people but do not want to feel forced into having to play with people either. Im a stubborn old fart and my mother always told me the best way to get me to do something was to tell me not too, it works the other way as well, best way to get me not to do something is to tell me i have to.

Yes, but being forced to solo for 6+ hours a day doesn't appeal to me, either. So, the more solo content there is, the less group content I get to be a part of. It's a two way street.

There are many group oriented games out there. Some older than others but they are still there. I am sure L3 and FFXIV will be a couple coming down the pike that will be heavy group so you have those to look forward to. Its not a dead option but its not the ONLY option anymore either.

Its funny, (not directing this at you, just a general statement) most WoW players says "I don't want to be forced to do x or y, I want to do my own thing", and then when you put them to a sandbox game, they say "wtf I'm supposed to do?".

Reality is this; WoW players solo because the game pretty much forces them to. Its not fun to do a rare drop quest with 4 other guys, its not fun to compete with those same guys because of a gathering quest. There are of course, new techniques such as spawning gathering nodes to individual players so only they can collect/see those nodes, in essence, you do quests faster with other people on your group, but you're essencially playing a single player game while doing it.

WoW tells you to solo level, it forces you to do things his way. Its very subtle to force you to solo, for large number of WoW subscribers, WoW is their first MMO and they do the things the way blizzard wants them to do, even if they don't realize it. Result is, a generation of mmo players that doesn't know wtf to do when they group with other people. Shitty community you see, is the result.

In WoW, people are being dickheads because they know they can do pretty much anything themselves. They know they don't need you, couple that with anonymity and you get the standard wow player. Forced grouping was the reason why EQ had such a mature community. Yes, there were some dickheads in EQ too, its inevitable. At least, back then they were few enough to be generally well known.

Personally, I'd prefer 90% grouping and 10% soloing instead of todays 10% group and 90% solo.

Originally posted by Nickless_man

Reality is this; WoW players solo because the game pretty much forces them to. Its not fun to do a rare drop quest with 4 other guys, its not fun to compete with those same guys because of a gathering quest. There are of course, new techniques such as spawning gathering nodes to individual players so only they can collect/see those nodes, in essence, you do quests faster with other people on your group, but you're essencially playing a single player game while doing it.

I agree with this, but I wouldn't say you level faster just because you quest faster in a group. These days I just see little benefit in grouping while leveling. Even with a group of friends going to play Aion, unless we are on the exact same quest chain we'll probably all be soloing to cap, it's kind of sad but it seems that's how mmos point you these days.

It was nice in older mmos where even a few levels inbetween did not matter if you were at a camp spot. These days even if you do group someone they must be on the same steps as you, other wise it is pointless.

Originally posted by Tenken29

Originally posted by Nickless_man

Reality is this; WoW players solo because the game pretty much forces them to. Its not fun to do a rare drop quest with 4 other guys, its not fun to compete with those same guys because of a gathering quest. There are of course, new techniques such as spawning gathering nodes to individual players so only they can collect/see those nodes, in essence, you do quests faster with other people on your group, but you're essencially playing a single player game while doing it.

 

I agree with this, but I wouldn't say you level faster just because you quest faster in a group. These days I just see little benefit in grouping while leveling. Even with a group of friends going to play Aion, unless we are on the exact same quest chain we'll probably all be soloing to cap, it's kind of sad but it seems that's how mmos point you these days.

It was nice in older mmos where even a few levels inbetween did not matter if you were at a camp spot. These days even if you do group someone they must be on the same steps as you, other wise it is pointless.

Actually, I didn't said you level faster when you're in a group, I said, grouping slows you down, so they've implemented some changes so you can literally solo your way around while grouping.

I agree, you have to be at the same point at the same quest chain to even think about grouping. Slows you down even more if you've already competed few more quests than your friends.

Ah, my bad.

I think that many game developers have learned that leveling in the game needs to focus on and be supportive us solo leveling to max level.  The reason for this is to support new players coming into the game months after release.  Doing group content exclusively to level is possible for a new game and players that start from day one.  But after the wave is over getting a group of new players is very tough because there is generally not that many lower level players.  Hence the drive to ensure that there is a solo way to level up in the game.

The downside to this however is that it virtually kills grouping.  The reason being that making a group takes time and work and isn't really much fun.  Playing in a group is great fun but getting the group going and getting setup isn't.  So players log on and start to solo cause that easy and you can do it right off the bat.  This then creates a lack of people looking to group which make getting groups going harder which then drives yet more people into solo.  Until in the end only groups of friends do group stuff and the rare random group that sets up.

What games need to do is make grouping rewarding.  But then that causes the solo community to start screaming bloody murder.  In some games group quests and group xp is better then solo stuff.  This acts to make grouping desirable enough to overcome the difficulty of making a group.  This is almost the case with wow except for some insane reason there is no level limit on group members so most people in wow just get a high lvl person to join the group and go through and kill everything leaving all the loot and quest completion for the lower level person or persons.  But I guess they need to do that or nobody would do instances.  Even on wow it is virtually impossible to get a group together at similar levels to do an instance....

So anyway I think the future of gaming will always be solo oriented.

Originally posted by ethion

I think that many game developers have learned that leveling in the game needs to focus on and be supportive us solo leveling to max level.  The reason for this is to support new players coming into the game months after release.  Doing group content exclusively to level is possible for a new game and players that start from day one.  But after the wave is over getting a group of new players is very tough because there is generally not that many lower level players.  Hence the drive to ensure that there is a solo way to level up in the game.

The downside to this however is that it virtually kills grouping.  The reason being that making a group takes time and work and isn't really much fun.  Playing in a group is great fun but getting the group going and getting setup isn't.  So players log on and start to solo cause that easy and you can do it right off the bat.  This then creates a lack of people looking to group which make getting groups going harder which then drives yet more people into solo.  Until in the end only groups of friends do group stuff and the rare random group that sets up.

What games need to do is make grouping rewarding.  But then that causes the solo community to start screaming bloody murder.  In some games group quests and group xp is better then solo stuff.  This acts to make grouping desirable enough to overcome the difficulty of making a group.  This is almost the case with wow except for some insane reason there is no level limit on group members so most people in wow just get a high lvl person to join the group and go through and kill everything leaving all the loot and quest completion for the lower level person or persons.  But I guess they need to do that or nobody would do instances.  Even on wow it is virtually impossible to get a group together at similar levels to do an instance....

So anyway I think the future of gaming will always be solo oriented.

 

With recent additions to MMORPGs grouping such as the LFG channel (wich mean you can do Solo stuff while setting up a group) it does not have to be a chore anymore adding the ability to teleport players to you and making content for non-cookie cutter group(may not require a tank or an healer) would be a huge improvment. It's not true that finding a group in WoW is hard due to the lack of players in X level range, there are always tons of player on in every level range at all time, but they're all soloing. And nothing stops developers from tuning content once it gets empty (they did it in WAR with PQs).

Edit :  Hell why isnt WoW doing cross-server instances for the lower level content? (I mean pre-raid/heroics so it wouldn't affect the servers progression) and more games need to do the Malefactor/sidekick thing of CoH/V

The many reasons people solo to cap have been amply stated in this thread, so I won't enumerate them all again. I notice in many if not all threads on any subject, the actions and etiquette of players play a big role in solo/group satisfaction. It only takes one griefer or a week of bad pug's to spoil anyone. And if the language, and in may cases the personal attacks on this or any forum are an indication, it has an impact on whether one pursues grouping with any vigor. Sheer numbers alone can't explain whether or not grouping is easy or fun.